Why do people call me a LARPer for being a Christian but not going to church?

Why do people call me a LARPer for being a Christian but not going to church? I believe in Christianity but I don't believe in any of the churches. It's not that hard to understand.

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    If anyone says, “I love God,” but hates his brother, he is a liar; for whoever does not love a brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

    1 John 4:20

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >4:20
      LMAO DUDE WEED
      unbelievable you hippie worshipping regards

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    99% of religious people are larpers, they just believe in a magical man in the sky and don't follow absolutely anything their religion is about because that would be too much trouble, no one in the 21st century bothers with religion, they just do whatever doesn't conflict with their lifestyle (aka they larp)

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      And who are you larping as?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Nothing? Why would I waste time with that

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Why do people call me a Frogposter when all I do is post this ugly green frog everywhere and have shit takes on everything? I post the green frog but I'm not a frogposter. It's not that hard to understand.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because anon some of us are old enough to remember when people were actually Christian, they went to church and didn’t post cartoon frogs on the internet. Impossible to convey just how much you are a hollow, shallow, cheap, low effort, inaccurate imitation of actual Christians.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      But I don't believe in any of the churches.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You're going to spend eternity with Christians, but you despise hanging out with them, and prefer to hang out with non-Christians instead, make it make sense anon

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I don't despise hanging out with them I just don't see the point if I don't believe in any of the churches. I have a good amount of Christian friends.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I think you're just making an excuse for keeping your Sundays free. After all, if you believe Jesus' words that He will preserve His church then that ought to be incentive enough to at least visit a congregation you can be a part of, if nothing else to worship God and to obey.

        There's no such thing as a loneranger Christian. You're cutting yourself off from so many blessings.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I looked into Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox churches. They're alright but I don't entirely agree with their doctrines, so what's the point in going there at all?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            And even if I were to go for the reasons described, what would my criteria even be? What looks nice? Where my friends go? It seems shallow, even though I'll admit I'm not super religious in my personal life.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            And even if I were to go for the reasons described, what would my criteria even be? What looks nice? Where my friends go? It seems shallow, even though I'll admit I'm not super religious in my personal life.

            >even though I'll admit I'm not super religious in my personal life.

            I wonder why

            I believe Jesus preserved his church in the sense of there being an invisible elect, but taking this to mean a literal church makes no sense once you study Christian history.

            Where do you think the "invisible elect" are found?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            And even if I were to go for the reasons described, what would my criteria even be? What looks nice? Where my friends go? It seems shallow, even though I'll admit I'm not super religious in my personal life.

            Refer to this question. And the invisible elect are found primarily among Christians and cultural Christians who are Christian in spirit, though there are some outliers.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >who are Christian in spirit,
            AKA you want to sleep in on Sundays but you still want to say that you're a Christian. Going to church doesn't make one a Christian, but it sure is a good indicator for where one's priorities are found. As it stands your thinking is "me me me me me me" the very antithesis of Christianity

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            No by Christian in spirit I mean those who are nonbelievers but are still Christian in spirit. I would not consider myself a cultural Christian since I believe in Christianity. And you still didn't answer my question, are you being deliberately dishonest?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I would not consider myself a cultural Christian
            You are the very definition of a cultural Christian my friend.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Nope, because I believe in the Holy Trinity, with Jesus Christ as God incarnate and the savior of mankind. Answer my question.
            >what would my criteria even be? What looks nice? Where my friends go? It seems shallow, even though I'll admit I'm not super religious in my personal life.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yes you are. Cultural Christians only go to church if they feel like it or during a major feast/holiday like Easter or Christmas.

            Your criteria would be map out what theological matters are important to you and then having the humility to realize that you could be wrong, but so long as you know what points are essential, that you can then go to a church where the word of God is preached and sacraments are administered.

            Proverbs 18:1 (ESV) "Whoever isolates himself seeks his own desire; he breaks out against all sound judgment."

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Ahem,

            >But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yes you quoted a Bible verse I can see that. But you didn't exegete it in its proper context. But you already know that.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Which is? What is the proper context? What has your priest told you to repeat?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >7And when you pray, do not babble on like pagans, for they think that by their many words they will be heard. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

            This sounds like modern churches lol

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I have already mapped out which theological matters are important to me, I am willing to change my views if any of them were to be proven false. And the essential points would not point to any single church, but to several different churches. So how then would I go to a single church without believing in their essential dogmas?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I'll give one example. I like the aesthetics/acoustics of Orthodox Christianity, but I disagree wholly with their beliefs in toll houses, theosis, and hesychasm. This is also ignoring their entire history, which casts a rather negative light on their church. These are quite significant impediments for me to call myself Orthodox.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The extent of your theological knowledge is a single sentence?
            >I believe in the Holy Trinity, with Jesus Christ as God incarnate and the savior of mankind

            This is as cultural as it gets. And yeah the people who are saying you're larping are right. You're doing the absolute bare minimum to get by which if you study Paul's theology of what it means to be a Christian, *how* one runs the race of faith is what determines if their faith is legitimate or not. As it stands you're steeped in self-aggrandizment ie "Everyone is wrong except me" while neglecting that it was Jesus Himself who started the church!

            Which is? What is the proper context? What has your priest told you to repeat?

            You're interested in trolling so this will be my last reply to you.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I can provide my theological opinions if you have any specific questions. It would seem presumptuous to write out a confession of my religious views on IQfy.

            >As it stands you're steeped in self-aggrandizment ie "Everyone is wrong except me" while neglecting that it was Jesus Himself who started the church!

            This is a strawman.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You're refusing to worship God in a corporate setting because you misunderstand verses in Matthew (assuming you're that anon who thinks Jesus was condemning public prayer) and/or you believe that going to church means you have to affirm *all* the theology that you disagree with, when that's never been the case. How about coming up with reasons *FOR* going to church as opposed to not going?

            It's a question of simple obedience.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You've never told me the misunderstanding of those verses btw. You are a modern day Pharisee

            >15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
            >16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
            >17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
            >18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
            The church is the internal acceptance of Christ, Son of the living God, not an institution built by men for political ends. See also, the Sermon on the Mount, the wise man building his house upon the rock. Catholics love to twist this verse out of context but it has nothing to do with establishing worldly things. My kingdom is not of this world.

            This anon gets it

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I don't believe sufficiently in the doctrine of a particular church for me to see the value of going there. This is applicable to the different Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant churches. It is not a matter of them confirming *all* of my opinions, it is a matter of enough.

            I understand the benefits going to a church might provide, but if I don't believe in their fundamental dogmas, then it would seem like a glorified social outing.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I already gave examples with Orthodoxy, examples with Catholicism include papal supremacy and some of their suspicious prophecies, examples with Protestantism include Monergism and what seems like a more obviously ahistorical view of Christianity, as well as my distaste for Luther and Calvin.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Also the Vatican councils for Catholicism.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >it is a matter of enough.
            And that's why I asked you to list out the essential doctrines of Christianity, and you gave a single sentence which is affirmed by 99% of churches except for perhaps the liberal Protestant ones.

            >but if I don't believe in their fundamental dogmas, then it would seem like a glorified social outing.
            Except for the part that you are flat-out wrong about this. There's enough diversity within Christendom to accommodate all your nuances. You just don't want to go to church and want confirmation bias.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Ask me any questions if you want, I am not going to waste my time to write out a text wall of my religious opinions.

            >There's enough diversity within Christendom to accommodate all your nuances. You just don't want to go to church and want confirmation bias.
            This is an assertion but you are not providing anything to substantiate it.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            How is going to a church for its aesthetics/acoustics any different from watching a YouTube video, like this?

            %C3%ADk

            How is going only because my friends are attending any different from a mundane social outing to a lake or restaurant?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I am not going to waste my time to write out a text wall of my religious opinions.
            So then why did you waste time making this thread? So far I've gleaned that you're a Trinitarian Arminian synergist, great, there's like a million and one churches that you can go to that meet this criteria. If we keep chipping away, we'll end up with 1000 churches in your immediate vicinity, but that's not the root problem, the root problem is prideful thinking in your heart and thinking that you're justified in being a lone-ranger Christian.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It's not pride, it's that I fail to see the point in going to a church if I agree with 80% of their doctrines but disagree with 20%. Because of that 20%, it would seem pointless for the aforementioned reasons.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            > Because of that 20%, it would seem pointless for the aforementioned reasons.
            Yeah and this is the pride talking, does it seem pointless to you to go to work with people who disagree with you on important things? But it's pointless to you to obey God and worship with God's people because you over-prioritize your intellect and feelings

            Have you considered that your lone-wolf act could have led you to believing wrong things or do you believe the Christianity you're practicing is 100% pristine?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It would seem pointless considering the very essential tenants of their doctrine, yes. If I am going to commit to something, then I would like to commit to it seriously.

            There are many people who go to churches while still believing in things that are totally antithetical to their church's very existence, such as Marxism or supporting abortion. I fail to see how they are getting any benefit whatsoever in attending these meetings, nor do I see it as something that is honorable whatsoever.

            And finally, if any of my beliefs are proven to be illogical, then I would reexamine my beliefs and come to something that is logical and capable of withstanding my own internal criticism.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >If I am going to commit to something, then I would like to commit to it seriously.
            More pride. You can't know that you'll commit to something if you're stuck hiding in your room finding reasons to pick out why you hate Lutherans or why you hate Presbyterians, instead of actually going and talking to a pastor who will explain to you what their church is about and their stance on your disagreements.

            >There are other people
            You're not other people. Stop with the excuses for once.

            >I don't go but I don't see the value in going
            Yeah it's because you don't go! This is like someone who is overweight obese saying they don't see the benefit of lifting weights every day. No kidding you don't see the benefits! You don't do it!

            >And finally, if any of my beliefs are proven to be illogical, then I would reexamine my beliefs and come to something that is logical and capable of withstanding my own internal criticism.
            Proven wrong by who? You're a one man army, do you argue with yourself all day?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >You're not other people. Stop with the excuses for once.

            >There is one BODY and one Spirit, just as there is one hope to which God has called you.

            >Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[a] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] There is no commandment greater than these.”

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Stop quoting verses out of context. If I wanted to see someone quote verses out of context, I'd go to a Mormon or Watch-tower society event.

            >Where did Jesus say go to church

            Matthew 18:15-18
            >“If your brother or sister[b] sins,[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[d] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

            How are you going to "TELL IT TO THE CHURCH" if you spend Sunday mornings watching anime?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >How are you going to "TELL IT TO THE CHURCH" if you spend Sunday mornings watching anime?
            I already told you, I run my hill sunday mornings and as the sun rises, so do I. Btw your posts sound prideful

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I already told you, I run my hill sunday mornings and as the sun rises, so do I.
            What does this even mean? You consider the sun your church?

            >Btw your posts sound prideful
            There's nothing prideful about going against the cultural individualistic Christianity that has slowly pervaded the west, where people legit think that they can say they are Christians and then live however which way they want. It explains why there's so much bad theology everywhere, including in this thread. And because you have bad theology, you then think that you don't need anyone else to tell you that you're wrong, cause you figured it out yourself and you can't be wrong.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            What does this even mean? You consider the sun your church?
            Nope. My body. Btw Jesus would preach at a hill rather than a temple, how does that make you feel?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >AKA you want to sleep in on Sundays
            Nta, but nope. I got a hill to run while the sun rises. After which I confer with God within myself 🙂

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I believe Jesus preserved his church in the sense of there being an invisible elect, but taking this to mean a literal church makes no sense once you study Christian history.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Absolutely. The Spanish Inquisition is enough evidence for that

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The 16th and 17th centuries are ripe with Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox committing unspeakable atrocities in equal measure.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            True, I just used that as one example.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You are the church, no need to go to one and hear some earthly priest speak of earthly things.

    >But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

    >And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I don't dislike priests and pastors at all, those I met seem to be nice and pious people, but I still don't fully agree with them.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    This is churchianity in a nutshell

    >1“Be careful not to perform your righteous actsa before men to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

    >2So when you give to the needy, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >>2So when you give to the needy, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men.
      he didn't say anything about making tiktoks tho

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
    >16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
    >17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
    >18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
    The church is the internal acceptance of Christ, Son of the living God, not an institution built by men for political ends. See also, the Sermon on the Mount, the wise man building his house upon the rock. Catholics love to twist this verse out of context but it has nothing to do with establishing worldly things. My kingdom is not of this world.

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >posting Scripture is trolling
    I'm sorry that you're a part of the modern day Pharisees

    >Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    A tavern is just as holy as a church. So is a back-street alley

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Modern churches would kill Jesus if it meant them gaining/keeping earthly power

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You claim to believe in Christianity, but have absolutely no connection with the living body of Christ.

    Which is his Church. You have to be one with the body of Christ through communion to be a Christian. You can't be in communion by yourself, as Jesus says "Where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them."

    >but I don't agree with any church

    Who gave you authority to decide what is and isn't true? It doesn't matter what you research on your own; even if you think you understand the faith you haven't been catechized so you do not sufficiently grasp what it is about.

    Plenty of unbelievers thing the same thing, that they have the real scoop on the Christian faith and all the Christians are deluded saps. They're also wrong.

    Part of the point of the liturgy is to better understand the faith. If you don't go to mass you'll never really get it, because it's rigorously structures to communicate multilayered symbolism to participants. That symbolism brings home the whole gospel message for those prepared to recognize it.

    I'm a heretic, I believe things that are very heterodox. But even I recognize that no man is an island, and there are FAR more things we agree upon than not. Learn humility, you do not have it all figured out.

    Go talk to a priest and tell him your reservations, and he'll instruct you. Don't let your autistic trifling hangups and misunderstandings stop you from actually participating in the religious life.

    The church tradition is there to help you understand, if you cut yourself off from it there little chance of you escaping confusion.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Who gave you authority to decide what is and isn't true? It doesn't matter what you research on your own; even if you think you understand the faith you haven't been catechized so you do not sufficiently grasp what it is about.
      Logic, as previously stated I have researched Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant churches extensively, attending them and reading their creeds, as well as their histories. You are pretending like I've never been to a church before, which is absolutely wrong.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        And on the topic of logical arguments, can you focus on them instead of slander?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >I have researched Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant churches extensively

        It doesn't matter. Those are all things you did yourself, and you aren't infallible.

        Like I said already, if you don't have proper catechesis you're not going to properly understand the liturgy.

        You're letting minor disagreement over your own interpretation of dogma stop you from participating in the life of the Church.

        How are you supposed to eat and drink of Christ with your fellows in his memory if you're all alone?

        >logic
        Are you even trained in logic? Could you formulate a valid compound statement?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I have researched Catholicism and Orthodoxy, if we would like to exclude Protestantism. While there are respectable aspects to both, I am more inclined towards Catholicism myself, I am not convinced by them in these essential things that you must believe in order to be a member of their church.
          [...]
          Can you focus on providing logical arguments that refute any of my statements? I never claimed to be extremely pious, but false witness would certainly not qualify as a good work. If you want to exclude any and all forms of Protestantism, then I suppose the church that seems most appealing is one of the Sedevacantist offshoots. My beliefs would still not be sufficient to go there, it would feel utterly hollow.

          [...]
          Which church then? Please enlighten me, instead of engaging in moral relativism by claiming that all churches are equally valid, which you most certainly do not believe in.

          It would seem dishonest to go to hypothetical Sedevacantist church and lie to the people around me that I am one of them, but I would be interested in your take on the matter.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      But the living body is the church.

      >Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

      >In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.

      >One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every dayalike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.”

      >I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

      >And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

      >16From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Protestantism has confused many, many people into thinking "belief" is the end all be all of being a Christian.

    It's not. That's just the start.
    Even the demons believe there is one God, and tremble.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I have researched Catholicism and Orthodoxy, if we would like to exclude Protestantism. While there are respectable aspects to both, I am more inclined towards Catholicism myself, I am not convinced by them in these essential things that you must believe in order to be a member of their church.

      >If I am going to commit to something, then I would like to commit to it seriously.
      More pride. You can't know that you'll commit to something if you're stuck hiding in your room finding reasons to pick out why you hate Lutherans or why you hate Presbyterians, instead of actually going and talking to a pastor who will explain to you what their church is about and their stance on your disagreements.

      >There are other people
      You're not other people. Stop with the excuses for once.

      >I don't go but I don't see the value in going
      Yeah it's because you don't go! This is like someone who is overweight obese saying they don't see the benefit of lifting weights every day. No kidding you don't see the benefits! You don't do it!

      >And finally, if any of my beliefs are proven to be illogical, then I would reexamine my beliefs and come to something that is logical and capable of withstanding my own internal criticism.
      Proven wrong by who? You're a one man army, do you argue with yourself all day?

      Can you focus on providing logical arguments that refute any of my statements? I never claimed to be extremely pious, but false witness would certainly not qualify as a good work. If you want to exclude any and all forms of Protestantism, then I suppose the church that seems most appealing is one of the Sedevacantist offshoots. My beliefs would still not be sufficient to go there, it would feel utterly hollow.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Can you focus on providing logical arguments that refute any of my statements?
        Logical arguments aren't enough to get you to get off your kister bright and early on a Sunday morning. If it were, it'd still be a form of legalism.

        The reason to go to church has to come from a deep conviction that this is an act that is pleasing to God and an actual requirement from God. As it stands, you've completely cut it out of your life, you're in direct disobedience to God but you don't want to hear it.

        You made this thread in search for confirmation bias. You haven't addressed any of the counter points I've made which shows you're not really interested in being proven wrong. You just want more excuses to affirm your pride.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Refer to the example I brought up about going to a Sedevacantist church, though it seems like the nearest one is 2-3 hours away.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Being an internet theologian
            This is why I asked you to figure out what the essentials of the Christian faith are. What is the Gospel? How are sinners justified before God? Is it faith + works? Things like this you can't just work out in a vacuum. You have to talk to people face to face, how do you show hospitality if you're a hermit?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I can answer these questions if you want to the best of my ability. The main people I talk to face to face are my friends, parents, and classmates at the uni.

            I view the Gospel as the word provided by God for the benefit of his creations. Even if chapters can go missing or translations can go awry, they serve in getting the fundamental point across.

            I believe that upon death, God will judge the soul and send them to either heaven or hell, based on factors such as their faith, works, and their overall worth before him. I do not believe there are middlemen in this process, such as Mary judging the soul as a proxy of God.

            Literally speaking, I believe we are justified before God solely by God's will/desire, which is determined by the factors I have previously brought up.

            As I understand, these views go against important fundamentals in Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and Protestantism.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            *send the person to either

            OK, with God anything is possible
            but why do YOU think it's a true event that happened in history?

            Because I believe in Christianity. If certain points are confirmed, then the more minor ones will follow.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I believe, because I believe
            Look, I'm asking why you think it's true that some guy walked on water 2000 years ago (sound made-up, right?)

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >God will judge the soul and send them to either heaven or hell, based on factors such as their faith, works, and their overall worth before him
            So you believe Christianity teaches that people are judged based on their works? How will that work out given that everyone is a sinner? This is why you need to go to church. You don't understand the fundamentals of the Gospel.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Works are a factor that determine salvation. We are all sinners, but sins are not all equal. Cannibalism is considerably worse than theft and will merit a harsher punishment.

            Now that I know you are some kind of Protestant, I have other views that would make it impossible for me to go to such a church in good faith.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Works are a factor that determine salvation
            You do not understand the Gospel and in a sense this explains why you look down upon the church.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, works most certainly are a factor that determines salvation. And salvation cannot be guaranteed while you are still alive. You can respond to my points and tell me how they are illogical, if you want.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Yes, works most certainly are a factor that determines salvation
            No they do not. This is not the Gospel. Have you studied Paul's letter to the Galatians?
            >And salvation cannot be guaranteed while you are still alive.
            This is also not true.
            >You can respond to my points and tell me how they are illogical, if you want.
            They are illogical because they are inaccurate and incorrect. Titus 3:5 says that God saves people based on His mercy and NOT because of works done by them, this is a fundamental departure that you have, and it's why being an auto-didact is bad because your self-study is just confirmation bias. Going to a solid Biblical church that preaches the Gospel that would root out these individualistic works based tendencies in you would go a long way in aiding your salvation. It might be possible that you are saved, but it's clear to me that you don't understand why the Gospel is good news for sinners since you think your works can earn you salvation.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I am familiar with these beliefs and I have contrasted them with other Christian beliefs, such as Catholic, Orthodox, and different Protestant ones from various periods in history. You are drawing a false dichotomy between works and faith, when even the Protestant reformers would be confused by this.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I am familiar with these beliefs
            You're not familiar with them. You believe in works based salvation, that your works are good enough to earn you salvation instead of Christ's work alone.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I am very familiar with them. You are claiming that because I don't believe in your views, that I am ignorant of them or have not studied them thoroughly enough.
            >You believe in works based salvation, that your works are good enough to earn you salvation instead of Christ's work alone.
            No salvation is ultimately exclusively God's choice. There is no other factor but God's choice upon our deaths, that sends us to either heaven or hell. That is it. And we cannot know God's choice, the ultimate choice that defines our entire existence, until we meet him for ourselves.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I'm arguing that you don't understand the Gospel, which you don't.
            You didn't answer whether you've read Galatians or not. I'm going to take that as a no. All the more reason that you're not as well-studied as you believe yourself to be.

            Here's the bottom line, if you believe you're saved by grace then you know that God can ask anything of you, if you believe you're saved by works then anything that God asks of you, you'll find a way to talk your way out of it because you're telling yourself the mediocre works you do make God indebted to you.

            That explains why you're bargaining with a clear command found in Scripture. You are laboring to do the absolute bare minimum to be counted a Christian.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yes I read Galatians, I read different commentaries on them as well. As previously stated, we are saved by God's choice upon our deaths. I do not draw this radical distinction between faith and works like you do, it is nonsensical. And you are still arguing dishonestly in bad faith.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            *on it as well

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I've read Galatians
            >we are saved by God's choice upon our deaths.
            Is that the argument Paul makes in Galatians? Can you find me where you get the above stated idea anywhere in Galatians or in the Bible?
            > I do not draw this radical distinction between faith and works like you do, it is nonsensical.
            Because you've turned Christianity into yet another religion that is based on works like Islam or Judaism.

            >And you are still arguing dishonestly in bad faith.
            Or you simply don't like that I'm not agreeing with you that you know what the Gospel is

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You are again bearing false witness and putting words in my mouth. Does your confidence in your understanding of faith (a human work) provide you with some antinominalist nihilism?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Not answering questions. See, you don't care about the truth, you made this thread for confirmation bias. You'll make it again in the future.

            I'm not an antinomian nor am I a nihilist. I'm trying to show to you, and not very successfully, that your prideful overreliance on yourself has rightfully earned you that label of "larper"...It's not even that you don't go to church, it's that you don't understand how sinners are made right before God. It's not by their works.

            It's through having faith in Jesus who was the one who lived the perfect life that no one else ever could/did/will. And when you have faith in Him, the Holy Spirit transforms your life, and your new life reflects the new reality of loving God (meaning you worship the Living God instead of idols) and loving your neighbor (How can you do that when you're a hermit who doesn't tolerate Christians?)

            Jesus said you must be born again, that can't happen if you're relying on your works to be justified. If you take nothing else away from this interaction, go read Galatians and see what Paul says about seeking to be justified through works of the law. Sinners are justified by faith apart from works of the law (Rom 3:28) and with that justification comes assurance of salvation (Romans 8)...What you're touting about only being assured when you die is Islam, not Christianity. Christians have assurance of salvation because of Christ and His perfection, this is what enables good works. Not the other way around, you can't work your way up-to heaven then cross your fingers hoping you've done enough. That's legalism which can't save anyone!

            Peace.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >It's through having faith in Jesus who was the one who lived the perfect life that no one else ever could/did/will.

            >Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            1) Was Jesus sinless?
            2) Are you sinless?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Sin, as in the original Hebrew meaning, meaning missing the mark?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Straight-forward questions to answer don't you think? However you define sin...Just answer the questions.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous
          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I already did.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            No you didn't. I'll ask again
            1) Was Jesus sinless?
            2) Are you sinless?

            These are yes or no questions.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            See here

            https://i.imgur.com/6DvrfaR.jpg

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >muh original Hebrew

            lol
            lmao even

            the clarion call of midwittery if there ever was one

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            *No other determiner but God's choice
            And his choice, as previously stated, is impacted by some things that we have control over

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >God will judge the soul and send them to either heaven or hell, based on factors such as their faith, works, and their overall worth before him. I do not believe there are middlemen in this process, such as Mary judging the soul as a proxy of God.

            Everything good is the will of God, if you think he will evaluate you something he did for you then you are mistaken.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            We have free will, God does not control us as sock puppets. This is nonsensical.

            >I believe, because I believe
            Look, I'm asking why you think it's true that some guy walked on water 2000 years ago (sound made-up, right?)

            You are engaging in a circular argument, under the presumption that a man walking on water is an impossible conclusion under any circumstances.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            There exists only 2 wills, the will of God and the lack thereof, what you think you have is just the will of God.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            If you deny the existence of free will then you are hopelessly moronic, regardless of your religious beliefs. You should be laughed at.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Is it so scary to think you are not God?
            That he is in control of everything?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It's not so scary, I used to have this view when I was a teenager. This blasphemous idea where God is the author of evil led me to hate him, before I came to realize that these views are illogical and false. Our world is filled with evil, but it is not God sadistically micromanaging everything and tormenting his creations in all countries and eras of history.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Despite the justified harshness of hell and the cruelty of the world, the Christian god is above all the god of love and is antithetical to evil.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Eh, if God indeed created everything and is completely almighty and omniscient like the bible claims, he did indeed create evil, because being omnipotent means he could just create a world without any form of misery in it that still allowed for free will and choice, and being omniscient means that both he'd be conscious of every possible evil deed that has, will, and is being done at any possible turn, and would know every possible way of making a world free of any suffering without any shadow of a doubt.
            That he didn't would at the very least make him completely neutral, disinterested or neglectful at best. Certainly not all-loving.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Certainly not all-loving.
            How do you know that it's not all-loving to create this world in its current form if the end goal is something even greater?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Because being almighty meant that he could have always done so without any misery involved for anyone. There is no point other than entertainment for making a world where evil is even a possibility, when you have omnipotency.
            Plus, children dying of cancer, an entirely natural and unavoidable part of life itself, disprove the idea of him making it perfectly or kindly.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >There is no point other than entertainment
            How would you be in a position to even know this unless you too were omniscient (which you aren't)?
            >, disprove the idea of him making it perfectly or kindly.
            Well the earth wasn't initially created with disease and pestilence, this came about cause of sin

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >How would you be in a position to even know this unless you too were omniscient (which you aren't)?
            Because otherwise he wouldn't be almighty. He can't do something? Not omnipotent. Simple as. And if he can't think of one? Not omniscient.
            >Well the earth wasn't initially created with disease and pestilence, this came about cause of sin
            Then he is cruel for punishing innocents for the sins of their parents. That scenario makes him directly malevolent.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The crux of all this is your argument is insufficient granted that you're the one who is not omniscient or omnipotent.
            >sins of their parents
            Everyone is punished based on their own willful sins.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >The crux of all this is your argument is insufficient granted that you're the one who is not omniscient or omnipotent
            No. The crux is that being omnipotent means being able to do everything, anything, and not being restricted by logic or any physical law. He created evil. Knowingly if omniscient. That makes him just as evil, in my book.
            >Everyone is punished based on their own willful sins
            Children born with cancer or one of the dozens of conditions that essentially makes them live a painful life no longer than like 10 to 12 years long are not willfully sinning enough to warrant that, I bet.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >that essentially makes them live a painful life no longer than like 10 to 12 years long are not willfully sinning enough to warrant that, I bet.
            What if those kids get to spend an eternity in heaven? How do you think that your limited exercise and understanding of mercy supersedes that of God?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Why setting them to suffer to begin with, then? They are born like that, is not contracted. It's not earned. It's not preventable.
            It's just torture for the sake of it. And it's supposed to be excused for the end result? That's Machiavellian.
            And if it is to punish the parents or something, then it is, once again, punishing innocents for the crimes of others.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Why setting them to suffer to begin with, then?
            Good question, you can ask Him one day and I'm certain the answer given will be able to fully satiate all the ignorance surrounding the idea that a finite fallible being can somehow supersede their infinite infallible creator. If you want to falsely categorize all suffering as "torture" then fine, I think it's a false categorization and given that there's a whole eternity of bliss awaiting those who trust God, I can't afford to get worked up about the details about the cosmos given how much of an idiot I am in comparison to an infinite God who created galaxy systems.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >If you want to falsely categorize all suffering as "torture" then fine
            I'm not categorizing all suffering as torture though. I'm saying that the kind a child born with bone cancer has, is torture for the sake of it.
            >the idea that a finite fallible being can somehow supersede their infinite infallible creator
            I am not entertaining the idea of me being infinitely smart, but simply pointing out that a being that was, would be able to ideate a world devoid of all evils without sacrificing anything. If he didn't, it's because he didn't want to. Simple as, really.
            >there's a whole eternity of bliss awaiting those who trust God
            Plus, you claiming that God will take you to heaven or a paradise is as much a fallible claim, too. After all, the book was written by men, and if he really loves us, he would've put the instructions somewhere within our minds to guide us to the right choice without superseding our will in any way, because again, omnipotency. That he didn't means that he doesn't ultimately care, and me not following him or me doing so, won't matter to him at all.
            Thus, saying that just because you trusted in him, you'd get to see him at the end? That is the height of pride. Something the book itself tells quite a few times against, if I remember it right.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >is torture for the sake of it.
            And I'm saying that's not necessarily true.
            >without sacrificing anything. If he didn't, it's because he didn't want to.
            Right and if He didn't want to there has to be good reasons far beyond anything our minds can comprehend. Like a parent who prohibits their child from doing certain things and doesn't give them an explanation because they wouldn't understand. To the child it looks like evil, but that's not the end-all be-all.
            >Plus, you claiming that God will take you to heaven or a paradise is as much a fallible claim, too
            The way finite creatures can relate to an infinite being would be on the basis of faith. That's the sort of relationship found in the Bible. God says, "Trust me" and humans can either do that or choose to say, "I don't trust you"...Going the I don't trust you route is what's actually prideful, you're counting on you being able to stump God one day. The same God who gave you that very same brain to reason with.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >And I'm saying that's not necessarily true
            No. You're claiming it's justified for a nebulous paradise at the end of a painful existence you were just cursed with for no reason of your own.
            >Right and if He didn't want to there has to be good reasons far beyond anything our minds can comprehend
            Or he simply didn't want to. You're the one that's arrogantly claiming he would or would not do this or that. And if our minds cannot comprehend it, again, it's because he didn't want us to comprehend. Omnipotency, again.
            >Like a parent who prohibits their child from doing certain things
            Bad analogy. He's not a parent constrained by society, chance, or even the physical laws of the universe. He could've simply made it so these very dangers didn't exist without, again, sacrificing anything of what made us be us, but he didn't. It's more like a parent taking his utterly normal child to a medieval warzone and making the child invisible. The child won't be exactly targeted, but why even bring the child? It's entirely pointless and just dangerous for no reason.
            >Going the I don't trust you route is what's actually prideful, you're counting on you being able to stump God one day
            Again, if he didn't create us with instructions somewhere in our heads, he most likely doesn't ultimately care or wants us to think it though by ourselves and come to our own conclusions about his design. Saying that your trust in him will get you paradise is arrogant, because it attempts to circumvent that.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >You're claiming it's justified for a nebulous paradise at the end of a painful existence you were just cursed with for no reason of your own
            No I questioned the legitimacy of your claim that you understand mercy more than the God who made the very reality you inhabit. And if someone experiences suffering their entire life and then spends all of eternity in bliss and joy, then that experience of suffering will have been worth it cause it'll all be explained/vindicated in the end.
            >And if our minds cannot comprehend it, again, it's because he didn't want us to comprehend.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >if someone experiences suffering their entire life and then spends all of eternity in bliss and joy
            Again, anon, God would be torturing them for no reason in this case. It doesn't matter that they have an eternity of supposed bliss and joy in the end, it's still not something someone all-loving would do, if they had infinite power. It's as simple as that.

            [...]
            >And if our minds cannot comprehend it, again, it's because he didn't want us to comprehend.
            This is a given and the promise is that one day everything will be made clear, the question right now is whether we believe it or not. Not believing is the prideful choice cause you're limiting yourself and also limiting God, by asserting you know exactly what's good and what's not for Him to do.
            >instructions in our heads
            People have consciences, if you want to ignore that then fine, but the issue is that people most often ignore their consciences in order to do evil. On the day of judgment, all of this will be made plain for everyone to see.

            >This is a given and the promise is that one day everything will be made clear
            Anon. Again. He is almighty. He doesn't have to go through loops and hoops. If he does, is simply and undeniably because he wants to. And if he actually has to, then he isn't infinite in either aspect.
            If he has infinite power, then him making people suffer in general before revealing everything is simply being sadistic, because there is absolutely no reason other than his own desire to. Because again, infinite.
            >People have consciences
            Omnipotency and omniscience, anon. Get it in your head already. He can do anything and everything. No limits. No needs. No stops. He could've made it in a way that we knew without a shadow of a doubt the truth, but could still choose freely.
            Why are you limiting your God so much?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Torture would imply inflicting pain without a purpose. I simply said that I don't believe God does this without a purpose, some people become more dependent on God due to an illness, so it's not purposeless, even if it may seem like it to you. Comes back to the issue of faith, given how short life on earth is and how long eternity is (never ends)

            Yes God does what He wants to. That's what makes Him God. The query is that you will be able to somehow tell Him that He has no right to do something or that He made a mistake or whatever excuses you have lined up. This is illogical. Against God, you'll always lose, you'll always end up being wrong, no matter how smart or air-tight your logic appears to be. There's elements to all this you're missing, you don't have the full picture.
            >He could've made it in a way that we knew without a shadow of a doubt the truth, but could still choose freely
            Yeah and that's called heaven. Earth is a proving ground to find out what people will value more, will they value God above all else or will they value their own fragile lives and understanding? I'm not limiting God, it seems to me that you are, cause you're somehow insinuating that you "could do better", which is straight up illogical.

            God wants you to trust Jesus, trust is a relational parameter, and it involves faith. You can't love someone that you distrust, if you choose to not trust or love God then He'll live you to keep loving and trusting lesser things for eternity while knowing you squandered the most important relationship you could ever have, and that sounds like hell to me.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I don't believe God does this without a purpose, some people become more dependent on God due to an illness
            This makes it even worse, as in this case he would be manipulating them into worshipping him with a horrendous ultimatum.
            >There's elements to all this you're missing, you don't have the full picture
            Because your entire argument for the existence of those is simply "They must because God is all-loving!" and offer no other perspective. There is no explanation in your side, you just believe blindly. It's just repeating an excuse endlessly and attributing it to the limitations of our design, ignoring how he made said design as he pleased, or how they "had to be this way" and thus limiting him.
            >The query is that you will be able to somehow tell Him that He has no right to do something or that He made a mistake or whatever excuses you have lined up
            The point is that he literally created all evil and is the most evil thing in existence. No mistakes. He just did it. I never claimed anything else. It is you who is saying what he can or cannot do as if he was a human bound by rules.
            >Yeah and that's called heaven
            No. Heaven is the supposed paradise after death. When that very choice is already pointless and taken. Your reading comprehension sucks. How did you even arrive at the conclusion that bringing it up at this point had any merit?
            >you're somehow insinuating that you "could do better", which is straight up illogical
            I'm gonna have to ask you, where did you even get that from? Are you actually even reading what I'm posting?
            I literally said that being infinite means he could do everything and anything, and is not bound by logic. How can you take that and then think I am implying to be better? I'm simply pointing out the flaws in the perspective of his followers.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You keep using words like "manipulate" or "torture" and these are words that betray distrust, which *is* the problem. You see, if an infinite God exists who has promised eternal life to people who trust Him, then all the suffering in the world in the grand scheme of humanity will just feel like a paper cut.

            If however you're putting all your trust in a finite life that could end tomorrow, then any little inconvenience to you will feel like hell, because you have a zoomed in perspective and also you're cynical towards God.

            >There is no explanation in your side, you just believe blindly.
            Uh no I don't. I'm offering reasons and explanations for my beliefs. You just don't like them because you want to err more on the side that God is a trickster who derives pleasure from torturing people for fun. I don't see that way and I have no reason to see it that way. I also never said "had to be this way" I said God can do what He wants, He choose for it to be this way. And one day it won't be this way, so this isn't even an eternal state, but you're treating it as such.

            >created evil
            No, evil is the absence of good the same way darkness is the absence of light. Hell will be evil because the people there will be doing what they think is right (which will be evil) we can already see the evils moral relativism can reek on a society.

            > When that very choice is already pointless and taken. Your reading comprehension sucks. How did you even arrive at the conclusion that bringing it up at this point had any merit?

            Except I don't believe any of this. You're projecting your beliefs onto me. I don't think the "choice" will be taken from heaven. I believe that people will be free to choose good all the time in heaven, and that's part of what will make it good. Your ability to choose right now is warped because of sin.

            You were saying that God "could've made it in a way without a shadow of a doubt" and I responded by telling you that's what heaven will be!

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things"
            God literally says he created all evil in the bible you're using to justify things. Like, he doesn't say it's a result of the other or such. He just made it be.
            >these are words that betray distrust
            No. Those are words that state an action. Manipulation is something more often done to people who trusts you, in fact, but that's not the point. Those are the literal definitions of what he'd be doing in the cases you present, anon.
            >if an infinite God exists who has promised eternal life to people who trust Him
            He'd be extorting you. Again, that's the literal definition.
            >I'm offering reasons and explanations for my beliefs
            You're saying he loves us more than anything else and thus he has to have a reason. That is believing blindly. Your reasonings are just variations of him being all-loving, which him being the creator of all evil disproves immediately.
            >I don't think the "choice" will be taken from heaven
            Again, your reading comprehension sucks.
            What I meant, very clearly in my opinion, but I'll concede that it might not be so since this is purely textual, that by that point any choice that could affect it had already been done definitely. Getting anything at that point would be redundant, because it'd be no real choice by then, just a guideline and an assurance.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >You're claiming it's justified for a nebulous paradise at the end of a painful existence you were just cursed with for no reason of your own
            No I questioned the legitimacy of your claim that you understand mercy more than the God who made the very reality you inhabit. And if someone experiences suffering their entire life and then spends all of eternity in bliss and joy, then that experience of suffering will have been worth it cause it'll all be explained/vindicated in the end.
            >And if our minds cannot comprehend it, again, it's because he didn't want us to comprehend.

            >And if our minds cannot comprehend it, again, it's because he didn't want us to comprehend.
            This is a given and the promise is that one day everything will be made clear, the question right now is whether we believe it or not. Not believing is the prideful choice cause you're limiting yourself and also limiting God, by asserting you know exactly what's good and what's not for Him to do.
            >instructions in our heads
            People have consciences, if you want to ignore that then fine, but the issue is that people most often ignore their consciences in order to do evil. On the day of judgment, all of this will be made plain for everyone to see.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            No, I did not say it was impossible.

            "My neighbor walked on water, the other day."

            What's the most probable explanation?
            1. I'm making it up
            2. It's true

            Why does you answer change when it happened 2000 years ago?

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >And on the topic of logical arguments, can you focus on them instead of slander?

    >Jesus said to go to church
    Anon: No thanks
    >The apostles said to go to church
    Anon: No thanks
    >The early church fathers said to go to church
    Anon: No thanks

    If these authority figures won't convince you, what sway do anonymous strangers on an anime imageboard have? All that's left to say is you're disobeying God, like someone who is living with their girlfriend and is told he has to stop doing that because it's a sin, and finds ways to rationalize why it's "still okay" because yadda yadda yadda

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      But the living body is the church.

      >Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

      >In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.

      >One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every dayalike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.”

      >I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

      >And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

      >16From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer.

      Which church then? Please enlighten me, instead of engaging in moral relativism by claiming that all churches are equally valid, which you most certainly do not believe in.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        said to go to church
        Where does jesus say go to church? Please do tell because I remember him saying literally the opposite of that. To pray in private. To not be like the pharisees and project a public show of faith.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Exactly. Jesus went to the poor, not the holy men of his day. He preached in fields and meadows, not some man-made structure doomed to be ruins one day

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          He went to the Temple anon.

          He told people to listen to what the Pharisees said because they held the seat of Moses, even though they were hypocrites and doers of iniquity who routinely packed true understanding of the scriptures.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >even though they were hypocrites and doers of iniquity who routinely packed true understanding of the scriptures.
            Huh, sounds familiar.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Then do as Christ instructs you. Pay your respects.

            Does that guy follow Christ? Sounds Christian to me. He might not follow your earthly made institution

            >earthly institution

            Jesus HIMSELF founded the Church. And he named Simon Peter because that is the rock he would build it on.

            Hate to break it to you, but rocks are made of earth.

            It's in the bible ffs, we aren't gnostics.
            You are earthly, get over it.

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Why you think it's true that some guy walked on water 2000 years ago?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The existence of miracles is not illogical in a universe where there is an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent god.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        OK
        But why do you think it's true?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The existence of God appears logical based on him being the first cause and the source of all goodness, with evil existing as the absence of good brought about by the lack of God's presence.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            OK
            But, why do you think it's true that some guy walked on water 2000 years ago?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Because God has the authority to override the natural laws of the universe in miracles.

            Stop quoting verses out of context. If I wanted to see someone quote verses out of context, I'd go to a Mormon or Watch-tower society event.

            >Where did Jesus say go to church

            Matthew 18:15-18
            >“If your brother or sister[b] sins,[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[d] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

            How are you going to "TELL IT TO THE CHURCH" if you spend Sunday mornings watching anime?

            I'm interested in arguments about the validity of one church, not in strawmen/insults over me not being in a certain building by 10 am. I wake up early and go to places on many other days.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            OK, with God anything is possible
            but why do YOU think it's a true event that happened in history?

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because they are moronic, anon.
    As long as you follow the core teachings of the book, the Churches themselves can get bent. Unless it's something told to you straight by the Pope himself, they're just hubs for guidance and shit when you're not clear on something or need the help of another believer.
    >inb4 "muh churches are inseparable from muh christianity!"
    They are a business.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >post scripture
    >uh no uh that's not what it means!!

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Just cause you can quote Scripture doesn't mean you're applying it correctly. Even the devil quoted Scripture to Jesus.

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >the people here who absolutely lose their mind that you aren’t a Christian don’t even go to church
    Lmao what the frick

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Everything good is God. I also struggle to see how this is more evident in a church, where anything is God is.

    Is a slave more or a less a slave when is in the house of his lord or working the field? He is a slave regardless.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I do not have this view on God, I believe in the Godhand, with three incorporeal persons who are all God and distinct from each other, united in the Godhead.

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Jesus would rather preach in nature than some temple or church. That's enough to know about clergy and "holy" men. Nature's abundance is a clear representation of God's boundlessness, not some church made by man's hands.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Idk bro, sounds pretty pagan. You fricking LARPer.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        How does it sound pagan? You don't worship nature, you just view it as a representation of God's limitless nature itself.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You sound like you're in some kind of cult. I ran into a YT channel a few months back where the guy was saying that people should worship under trees and leave churches, and he had like 40k subscribers, and this guy was saying he was a Christian.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Does that guy follow Christ? Sounds Christian to me. He might not follow your earthly made institution

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          No he doesn't. He's one of the many false antichrists talked about by Jesus in Matt 24 who go out preaching a false salvation and deceiving many.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Oh like most priests then. Got it

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I'm not a Roman Catholic but I'm sure this won't stop you from pivoting to the next insult

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I never specified Catholicism.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >You sound like you're in some kind of cult
        Ironic

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          *tips fedora*

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Why have churches made an idol of Jesus Christ?
    >Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Is the kingdom of God within or without? Where is it? How does one enter it?

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    16192979
    2/10 didn't troll me

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Origins of words are not trolling. You willfully remain to be a sheep and be misled by wolves

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Asked to answer a yes/no question after tacitly throwing out a random Bible verse
    >Can't do it after two tries
    >Thinks appealing to the Hebrew language gets him off the hook
    I wish humans were more honest than they let on

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      How is that verse misunderstood? You keep saying that but never correcting me.

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Threads like this are why the Catholics uses to ban plebs from reading the bible.

    Dunning Krueger halfwits read, think their comprehension is flawless, and proceed to embarrass themselves or worse mislead others.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >why the Catholics uses to ban plebs from reading the bible.
      I'm amazed that papists think promoting illiteracy is a notch in their cap. OP is misled because he in a sense bought into Catholicism's system of "Just do good works and you'll be saved" false message of what Christianity is.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        He is mislead because he is under the mistaken impression that his personal interpretation is just as valid as anyone else's. So valid he thinks he doesn't need the church anymore, or is qualified to start his own.

        It isn't, he does not benefit from apostolic tradition.

        And it's Protestantism that is to blame for that.

        You're right. It'd be much easier to control people by forbidding them from reading and lead them astray for your earthly man-made church

        Apostolic succession, founded by Christ himself.

        You have no argument.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Church is spirit and dwells within. You are a modern day Pharisee. The major churches of this world would murder Christ again, if it meant they'd stay in power.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Church is spirit

            This is my BODY.
            This is my BLOOD.

            >He is mislead because he is under the mistaken impression that his personal interpretation is just as valid as anyone else's.
            He mentioned that he's a sedevacantist, which would put him in the Roman Catholic umbrella. The problem is that he doesn't understand the Gospel, he believes it's by works and so it makes sense (not really) that he thinks church is optional and that he's free to believe whatever aberrant things he wants because he *really* studied it for himself (again not really)

            Protestantism isn't to blame, it's the false gospel oft preached in Roman churches that make it so that works somehow factor into salvation. Btw that's not even the official Roman Catholic view of salvation, but that's how the average Roman Catholic understands it. No room for grace, just free will free will free will

            No, he hasn't. He was being hyperbolic. Your reading comprehension is awful.

            By the way, it's grace that makes free will possible in the first place. You're welcome, I am happy to correct your misconceptions.

            God Calvinists are literally the worst.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >By the way, it's grace that makes free will possible in the first place. You're welcome, I am happy to correct your misconceptions.
            So to recap (again) you haven't read Galatians, don't understand the nature of salvation or grace or faith, but you want to insist that "grace makes free will possible"...Okay I'll convert to whatever religion you're practicing if you can show me where Jesus or Peter or Paul or John ever said such a thing

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            We are made in the image of God. The Logos is in every single one of us. When God created Adam, it was with free will. Which is why he even bothered to tell him not to eat from the fruit of the knowledge tree, he had a choice.

            Even though Adam was in a state of grace by being in the direct presence of God, he chose to eat the fruit. In doing, he fell from grace and was cast from paradise.

            Now, if his sainthood was eternally perseverant that could not have happened. But that is what happened, because we have free will.

            Even though Adam fell from grace, his free will remains because the Logos is inherent to his created being. The fruits of grace, among them freedom of will, remained with him even though he was cast from the direct presence of God because they are wrapped up in his very being.

            Everything God commands us to do requires free will to be meaningful. Forgiveness, obedience, gratitude, repentance, the list goes on and they are all empty if compelled or done insincerely without personal agency. Think about it, if someone forces you to apologize did you really repent?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Repentance is a gift from God (2 Timothy 2:25) and so for a sinner to see the error of their way God has to not only grant them faith (Ephesians 2:8-10) but also repentance, which is an act of grace. This does not nullify "free will" but it enhances it. Salvation is wholly a work of grace from God, if it becomes about what we contribute then we end up thinking that "God owes us" for "being good enough"

            The primary function free-will serves is to condemn people who think they don't have a choice in the matter ala fatalists but your free-will cannot by itself earn you salvation, if it did, why did Jesus need to become incarnate and suffer on a cross?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >is wholly a work of grace from God

            Salvation is made possible because of the sacrifice and rising again of Christ.

            He doesn't force anyone to be saved, you have to go to him when he calls. It really is that simple. We have to participate in the life, an we can choose to.

            If you don't choose, you aren't a participant. You're an implement.

            >your free-will cannot by itself earn you salvation
            Who ever said "by itself"?

            >why did Jesus need to become incarnate and suffer on a cross

            Adam disobeyed God. If he didn't have a choice in the matter it wouldn't have happened.

            Slaves do not obey, they are chained and forcefully compelled to do the will of their master. A free servant obeys his master of his own volition. God doesn't want slaves, he frees slaves. He paid the price himself to set you free.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >made possible
            I don't believe that God forces anyone to be saved, I also don't believe that humans left to their own natural state can choose to follow God else Christ's sacrifice was unnecessary (This is the whole argument Paul makes in Galatians)

            >Adam disobeyed God
            Yes and all humanity fell with him. Christ obeyed God, and whoever believes in Jesus receives eternal life as a free gift. You don't have to do anything to earn a gift, so works can never be part of the equation.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >don't believe that humans left to their own natural state can choose to follow God else Christ's sacrifice was unnecessary

            Christ's sacrifice was necessary for metaphysical reasons related to the Gulf between fallen man and God which he bridges, not because we are intrinsically unable to follow the commandments of the law. The OT is filled with examples of people both following the law and transgressing it, and they pay the price for their transgressions because it's what they chose.

            It doesn't make sense to punish someone who was forced to commit a crime, who didn't have a choice in it. Free will is taken for granted by the justice system for this reason.

            Following the structures of the Mosaic law was never meant to save souls, it was to assuage a wrathful God that he might continue to dwell in the Tabernacle until the time came when he would make a New Covenant with his people.

            >whoever believes in Jesus receives eternal life as a free gift

            But according to you, it's impossible to believe unless God literally makes you believe. That's a problem.

            Now there's an argument to be made that's really true because you can't *make yourself believe* something in honesty, but that's not something you can argue about obedience or forgiveness.

            Forgiveness is objectively a work, and Jesus says that if you do not forgive your neighbor his transgressions neither will his Father forgive yours. He says this, expounds it proper, right after he relays the Lord's Prayer.

            To say works play absolutely no part in justification is to completely ignore this passage, and the parable of the unforgiving servant.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >not because we are intrinsically unable to follow the commandments of the law.
            This sounds like pelagianism which was refuted by the early church. Yes people in the OT followed the law, but they often did it imperfectly. David who was called a man after God's own heart and wrote 75+ psalms still sinned heinously and so it couldn't have been that his works are what earned him salvation. The problem with humans is we CHOOSE to do evil and we have hearts that are bent towards doing evil. We are not morally neutral.

            The only person who kept God's law perfectly was Jesus. According to Paul in Romans 5, the purpose of the law was so that iniquity would increase and be drawn out and be shown to be what it really is. And to show that even before the Mosaic law, humans were still being born sinful.

            >That's a problem.
            I fail to see how that's a problem given that humans by their own choice CHOOSE to reject God by their words and their actions.

            >Works play no part in justification
            Therefore since we have been justified by faith we have peace with God (Romans 5:1) The justification that Paul is speaking about here is devoid of all works. The justification that comes with works and proves that someone's faith is not dead is the proof that the justification in Romans 5 really happened ergo faith without works is dead (James 2) but it's not our works that earn us salvations. The only works that matter are the ones that Jesus did cause He was the sinless Son of God.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >sounds like pelagianism

            Calvinists literally always say this, but it's just a strawman. It wasn't free will they "refuted", every church father before Augustine championed it and even Augustine changed his mind on the issue TWICE.

            >they often did it imperfectly
            that's a theme, you see it from the very start of Genesis through the Babylonian captivity. It reiterates this point again and again. The Mosaic law was given to Israel in the first place because they proved themselves incapable of following the 10 commandments etched on the tablets of the covenant.

            >we CHOOSE to do evil and we have hearts that are bent towards doing evil

            Not just evil, we choose good and morally neutral things too. But simply choosing good things is not enough to save you without the sacrifice of Christ. Christ's sacrifice makes salvation possible, not guaranteed.

            >The only person who kept God's law perfectly was Jesus.

            He died according to the letter of the law, and rose again in the spirit of the law. He fulfills both the letter and the spirit.

            >humans by their own choice CHOOSE to reject God
            So we agree that predestination is nonsense.

            >justification that Paul is speaking about here is devoid of all works

            You are avoiding directly addressing the very clear and important words of Jesus. He says that if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven. That's so important it explains what the Lord's Prayer means, and he devoted an entire parable to the concept.

            You have to reckon with these verses.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Pelagianism was condemned a full 1200+ years before Calvin was even a zygote. You can't always hide behind labels when your beliefs are shown to be condemned church heresies. Love Augustine btw, and he'd be on my side of the argument because Pelagius argued that man still had the moral capability of keeping the law perfectly, and Augustine argued from a stance of original sin which tainted man's works and disqualified him from being able to earn salvation!

            >The Mosaic law was given to Israel in the first place because they proved themselves incapable of following the 10 commandments etched on the tablets of the covenant
            Unless Paul was wrong in Romans 5, what you said doesn't jive. Paul says the law was given so that iniquity would increase. Does your theology take into account statements like these?
            >we choose good and morally neutral things too
            Not according to Jesus who said out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks and then listed evil things that everyone does
            Not according to Paul who wrote that there is none righteous no not one
            All these arguments are based on what's found in Scripture not just what "sounds good to me"
            >predestination is nonsense
            What did Paul mean in Ephesians 1 when he used that word? It can't be nonsense if it's found in the Bible.
            >He says that if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven
            Right and I don't disagree with that. Justified Christians will forgive. But you can't forgive someone if you're trying to earn salvation via works because then you'll think it's optional. If salvation is by works then eternal life will not be a gift, it'll be what a person is owed.

            Read Romans 6:23, which says that the FREE GIFT of God is eternal life whereas the WAGES of sin is death. If eternal life involved works then he would have said "but the wages of belief is eternal life" he doesn't say that.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Look, if eternal life truly is a free gift. It's nonsense to even talk about death.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >It's nonsense to even talk about death.
            For Christians, death has been disarmed of its sting and put in the rear mirror. Whereas everyone else sees it as their biggest enemy, it isn't for Christians because of Christ's resurrection from the dead.

            And this is why I recoil when I see Christians say that there's no assurance of salvation, what sets Christianity apart from all philosophies and world religions is that humanity's biggest enemy (death) has been defeated, and anyone who places their faith in Jesus has (present tense) eternal life

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >what sets Christianity apart from all philosophies and world religions is that humanity's biggest enemy (death) has been defeated, and anyone who places their faith in Jesus has (present tense) eternal life
            Zoroastrianism bros...

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >anyone who places their faith in Jesus has (present tense) eternal life
            I don't get the free gift, unless I do that?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It used to have an asterisk at the end anon, but the israelites took it with them when the Christcucks stole their religion.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >unless I do that
            If you hate God and love sin, why would you desire eternal life? Doesn't that polarity need to first be reversed?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            No, I want to live forever! I don't wanna die.
            How do I go about placing my faith in Jesus? (I think Christianity is false)

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >(I think Christianity is false)
            ...Okay..? So what do you want me to say to you?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I want the free gift. How do I get it? What do I need to do?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Well you don't need to "do" anything in the sense of here's a list of rules that you now have to start keeping. You do need to admit (which in religious lingo is called confess) things that are already true about you ie that before a Holy God, you are a sinner in need of a savior namely Jesus Christ and that you need, and depending on how sincere you are (you can't really fake this) you can ask God to forgive you and help you hate what is evil and love what is good. And anyone who turns to Christ in faith and repentance will find newness of life far superior to the one that's steeped in worldly pleasure and vice. God, in Christ, forgives you of all your sins and you become a child of His.

            Properly understood, Christianity isn't about keeping a set of rules, but rather being inwardly transformed by God so that you can love what He loves and properly start hating sin. And this happens through faith and repentance, and what naturally follows is that you'll want to study the Bible more and more and attend a church where the Bible is faithfully taught/preached and other Christians can encourage you in practical ways.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >God, I'm so heckin sorry that I had sex with my girlfriend!
            What a gay religion.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            If having sex with your girlfriend is what brings you ultimate joy in life then have at it. I don't know why you're blowing up at me for. You having sex with your girlfriend won't last forever, so whatever joy you're deriving from that is finite, whether you choose to care or not, again is up-to you, I don't know why you're angry at all, I didn't even mention any specific sins.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            NTA, but what you described was so far from being a "Free" gift that it's laughable, so the other anon must likely just blew you off with the first sin he could think of and turned the other way.
            Submitting your entire being to one guy and such is one massive price, anon.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            How did I seem angry? That was my first reply to you and I just said that if you beg for forgiveness because you fricked your girlfriend, your religion is gay.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I don't think Christianity is true.
            It doesn't makes sense to say I should trust in something I believe to be false.

            Step 1 should be something about changing what I believe to be true. How do I do that?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Well what do you believe to be true about yourself? If you think yourself complete and self-sufficient, Jesus said that He can't help people who are self-righteous and see themselves as already perfect. He came to save sinners.

            NTA, but what you described was so far from being a "Free" gift that it's laughable, so the other anon must likely just blew you off with the first sin he could think of and turned the other way.
            Submitting your entire being to one guy and such is one massive price, anon.

            Eternal life being a free gift means that it's earned by Christ.
            >and turned the other way
            Which isn't surprising because people love their lifestyles and the thought of having to give up certain practices is naturally going to sound repulsive
            >Submitting to your entire being
            The idea is that you're already submitting your entire being to someone/something, either to hedonism or some sort of pietism rooted in a form of self-righteousness. The call of God is to submit oneself to Christ as a far better king and ruler.

            How did I seem angry? That was my first reply to you and I just said that if you beg for forgiveness because you fricked your girlfriend, your religion is gay.

            Calling things you don't like gay is a sign of being angry to me. Fine, it's not for you. Go have all the sex with your girlfriend, I just don't think that's going to bring you or anyone else lasting fulfillment.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >free gift
            how generous

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Pelagianism was condemned a full 1200+ years before Calvin was even a

            And Calvinists STILL compare the idea of positive free will to Pelagianism for polemical reasons. It's simply not true.

            >your beliefs are shown to be condemned church heresies
            They aren't, that's something you need to say because you're losing and can't or won't address Jesus's expounding on the Lord's Prayer.

            >Pelagius argued that man still had the moral capability of keeping the law perfectly

            Again, not what I'm arguing. Even if one man could keep every commandment it would not avail his soul, only Jesus can.

            >Unless Paul was wrong
            >Not according to Paul

            I don't think your grasp of Paul is sufficient. Besides, this is just noise to distract from the fact you won't address the Lord's Prayer or the parable of the unforgiving servant.

            >But you can't forgive someone if you're trying to earn salvation via works
            What?

            Even if you are trying to "earn" salvation, you can still forgive people.

            >Right and I don't disagree with that.
            I think you misunderstand that.

            Forgiveness requires personal agency, not just divine intervention ("not just" because personal agency itself requires primordial divine intervention).

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            There's nothing wrong with calling out pelagianism any time it sticks out its ugly head. Being against pelagianism doesn't mean that someone is denying free will.

            You're not responding to anything I'm pointing out about Paul's arguments in Romans and Galatians. Perhaps cause you don't know them. The arguments you're making appear to be grounded by your own reasoning, not on what is found in the epistles, which are what explain the nature of salvation.

            I already addressed your point, you might have missed it. The main point is that works cannot earn salvation, it's all grace all the time, and this grace is based on the perfect righteousness of Christ and justification is by faith alone, without requiring a single work. Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness (Genesis 15:6, and Romans 4) Works prove that faith is not dead (James 2) but works are never what earn salvation, the only righteousness that counts towards eternal life is Jesus' righteousness, not our own.

            You're unfortunately not interacting with verses like these, you're just blowing them off.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >calling out pelagianism
            You mean that thing Calvinists literally always do when backed into a corner?

            Get real.

            >not responding to anything I'm pointing out about Paul's arguments in Romans and Galatians
            I was introduced to the new perspective on Paul recently and am convinced it is more accurate.

            >works cannot earn salvation, it's all grace all the time

            Did I not tell you already that free will is one of the fruits of grace, which in man was created from dust? The image of God in which man was made, namely Logos?

            Every miracle is due to grace. Free will is a miracle. Ergo, free will is due to grace.
            Always has been.

            >works are never what earn salvation

            Uh, if you don't forgive you won't be forgiven. Forgiveness is a work, an internal and unseen work. Even if you accept that free will is from grace, you have to then accept that it's something you can choose.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            ....You didn't back me in a corner....And this is turning into a bad faith argument so I'm just going to dip cause I'm not a fan of false accusations being thrown around when the goal here is for truth to be arrived at and when you're the one who initiated the conversation.

            >If you don't forgive you won't be forgiven
            So the pagan non-believer who forgives their mother is going to inherit eternal life? No.

            Faith without works is dead, so a Christian who doesn't forgive is showing that their faith is dead and so God won't forgive them on the final day. Faith is the root, works are the fruit. It's not the other way around.

            That's the consistent reading and understanding of salvation in the entire NT.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Christ's sacrifice was necessary for metaphysical reasons
            Christians favorite pastime, to make up stories about how weak God is and what he can't do.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            No one is forcing you to read or even participate in these talks anon. Just do what you want. Close the tab, walk your dog, just do whatever you want.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            NTA, but walking away from these kinda threads would be moronic af in my opinion.
            I think these are the best type of threads in the site by far, the different opinions and the way everyone tries to explain them with no filter is just insanely interesting to me.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I take omnipotence to be the ability to anything that is possible, that is to say, does not entail a logical contradiction
            You would have to argue for the impossibility for God to achieve his goals in (any) other way.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            God achieves all His goals on His own timetable. He doesn't have to follow human metrics of how to achieve said goals the way some people insist He has to

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Did you forget what you were arguing for?
            You're the one that is making assertions about what it's "necessary for metaphysical reasons" for God to do
            I'm not the guy who is putting limits on God, and say what he can and cannot do.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >He is mislead because he is under the mistaken impression that his personal interpretation is just as valid as anyone else's.
          He mentioned that he's a sedevacantist, which would put him in the Roman Catholic umbrella. The problem is that he doesn't understand the Gospel, he believes it's by works and so it makes sense (not really) that he thinks church is optional and that he's free to believe whatever aberrant things he wants because he *really* studied it for himself (again not really)

          Protestantism isn't to blame, it's the false gospel oft preached in Roman churches that make it so that works somehow factor into salvation. Btw that's not even the official Roman Catholic view of salvation, but that's how the average Roman Catholic understands it. No room for grace, just free will free will free will

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The highway is free for all. It is a highway after all.

      16192994
      I'm not gonna both "correcting" someone who is too prideful to answer 2 simple yes/no questions.You think way too highly of yourself

      You use a wrong definition of sin

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You're right. It'd be much easier to control people by forbidding them from reading and lead them astray for your earthly man-made church

  27. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    16192994
    I'm not gonna both "correcting" someone who is too prideful to answer 2 simple yes/no questions.You think way too highly of yourself

  28. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    16193004
    I never gave a definition of sin, I expressly told you to use whatever definition you want, just so long as you could answer the question. If you're struggling to answer the question as to whether Jesus was sinless or not then yeah you are NOT a Christian, you're just a larper.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Jesus never used the term Christian. He used the Truth and the Way.

  29. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    16193015
    Can't answer a question and steeped in full on cult-speak

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You're very petty.
      >cult speak
      >you must abide by our earthly church or go to hell
      You're the one in a cult

  30. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    16193027
    Says the guy who can't answer whether Jesus was sinless or not. Even the most dishonest atheist I could find on here can answer this.
    >more cult speak

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You already know that He wasn't (by your definition of sin). But your ego and vanity demands an answer.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        So then why did you randomly out of context toss out a verse that implies you think humans can supercede the works of Christ?

        The Bible isn't a spell book that you just trot out any verse you want and make it mean what you want it to mean.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >The Bible isn't a spell book that you just trot out any verse you want and make it mean what you want it to mean.
          Oh no, you actually think this. What do you think the Psalms are. Jesus plain and simple states it, you just refuse to listen if it goes against your church's idol worship

  31. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >but not going to church
    It's a commandment. Go to the Catholic church and be baptized if you haven't. Preferably the Latin rite or Byzantine rite.

  32. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    16193055
    >Doesn't answer another simple question
    Final reply. Not even kidding. You're too prideful to ever be proven wrong about anything.

  33. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >you didn't answer my question how I wanted
    >grumble grumble braap

  34. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Hell comes from Zoroastrian myth. Even then it wasn't forever.

  35. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >I believe in Christianity
    Ahh there we go. Found the reason.

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