why do people spend hours and days arguing over wayland/x11

just use what works for you

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >implying freetards are people
    lol
    lmao

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      SHEEEH
      freetards have been real quiet on these quads

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    you're wondering why IQfy, the home to the largest group of extreme and autistic losers, is arguing about something insanely stupid and pointless?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      yes basically

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >why are idiots arguing about idiotic things?!?!?!
        gee i wonder

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >linux
    lmao

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >We still don't know what audio system we should use
      PipeWire
      >We still don't know what display server we should use
      Anything Wayland-based
      >We still don't know what widget toolkit we should use
      And that's a good thing
      >We still don't know what DE we should use
      And that's a good thing
      >We still don't know what init system we should use
      SystemD

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >>We still don't know what init system we should use
        >SystemD

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You guys didn't. I know exactly what I should use.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's a forced meme, it's all false because they're all being used by different people, for different purposes all at once all over the world,
      "we should use X because it's the best audio system/display/init system" that only applies to homosexual corpo meme proprietary shit,

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >having choices is le bad
      Also forced meme

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      you MUST USE ONLY ONE
      there will be NO CHOICE
      you will use WHAT SOMEONE CHOOSES FOR YOU

      normal gays are both incapable of understanding free will and also incapable of exercising it. this is why slavery existed. we should honestly go back to that.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        GNU/Linux fragmentation in general is massively overblown. Fedora, Ubuntu and Debian together make up at the very least 90% of every GNU/Linux desktop system out there, probably much more. And all of them have fairly standardized components.

        The alternatives are all fairly niche, but it's good to have choice all else being equal.

        "Fragmentation" has *never* been an issue for GNU/Linux adoption on desktops. As Torvalds pointed out in a talk, the reason is much simpler than internet mouthbreathers think: there are almost no PCs sold with GNU/Linux preinstalled. The vast, vast majority of people never bother installing another OS, and Windows is what comes with 99% of prebuilt PCs.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          i think additionally to there being almost no hardware shipping with linux installed, there's almost no reason for the average consumer to prefer the hardware that does over the industry standard. Linux stood more of a chance during the adoption of the computer, since everyone was learning how computers worked. So even though libre office is pretty much just as good as microsoft office for 90% of use case (O've done several semesters of cLOLege using it at this point), most people aren't willing to re-learn everything.
          But i think with a bigger user base would be a higher report rate of bugs and more corporate incentive to contribute patches to open source projects (just like how linux gets lots of corporate contribution for android and servers).
          But since there isn't that userbase, there's always gonna be rough edges and bugs in things like desktop environments and other software. It's a sort of perpetual self-eating dragon.

          You really just have to either a.) be freetarded or b.) be fed up with microsofts gay Black person bullshit enough to not care. (or both)

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >just use what works for you
    i did until wayland shills started their campaing and bullying devs into going wayland-only

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Hardcore nVidia fans are worse than women. They endlessly kvetch and gaslight about Wayland because they don't want their pet GPU to be less than perfect. It's was like this ever since their official Linux driver came out like 20 years ago, but now they're in overdrive because they see the walls closing in.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I use NVIDIA and Wayland and don't see any issue with it

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Of course you do Karen.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I'm platinum mad

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      by 20 years ago you mean its a regression 20 years in the past, because wayland with nvidia works worse than nvidia on x11 did back then. Nvidia has worked fine on x11 for more than a decade

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They have no life, they've wasted their nights and weekends for the past 15 years tinkering around with Linux and posting on image boards.

    Now they're in their late 30s and wondering why they wasted their life on pointless shit instead of going out to party and have sex.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I've seen how the party goers and sex havers turn out, and I'm good. Unless you make >>$200k or are born into some tight religious community, it's not worth the trouble.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >they've wasted their nights and weekends for the past 15 years tinkering around with Linux and posting on image boards
      No, no, no, I've wasted the past month on Linux. I wasted years on the military, which is still honestly just as bad as wasting it on Linux.
      >Now they're in their late 30s
      late 20's
      >and wondering why they wasted their life on pointless shit
      accurate
      >instead of going out to party and have sex.
      Literally not worth it.

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >just use what works for you
    If they did that they wouldn't be using linux

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >why do people discuss technology on a technology board?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      more like

      >why do people who are interested in horse riding, not ride any horse but debate for 3 weeks the small difference between 2 different saddles while the real interested guy just go out and rides on them

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Take your meds.

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Tell that to Wayland trannies trying to kill Xorg at all cost.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's sad, wayland is pretty good in what it does... if it does anything at all

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    linux is the only OS that matters. no one debates windows shit because no one cares about windows. and mac? mac and its users, including ceo, is to busy sucking wiener, as a man.

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >actually have choices
    And we used to think Linux is communism

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      /leftypol/dot/org and /leftychan/dot/net IQfy boards still do

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        theyre reliably behind the curve

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Tell me you dont know what communism is without telling me you dont know what communism is

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >bootlicker comes in to defend communism
        many such cases

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Trying to program anything for X11 would convince anyone to switch to Wayland.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The exact opposite is happening.

      https://dudemanguy.github.io/blog/posts/2022-06-10-wayland-xorg/wayland-xorg.html

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >"Wayland is bad because of problems I imagined" - Literally Who
        Is that the most compelling you could find?

        If you think x11 programming is bad try wayland. It's a billion times worse for any non trivial task.

        Struggling more with saner architecture is a sign of profound moronation, anon. Take an IQ test ASAP.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          How is the Wayland architecture "saner"?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          wayland + compositor specific wayland protocols + dbus + desktop portal + pipewire, instead of just 4 lines of x11. That is beyond moronation, it's mental illness

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            also note that this is not an issue of abstraction, in the case of x11 it doesn't need any of these layers, even internally in the x server or xlib. It's 90% unecessary garbage dreamed up by the uttlerly deranged

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >>"Wayland is bad because of problems I imagined" - Literally Who
          >Is that the most compelling you could find?
          dudemanguy is the one working on wayland in mpv

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      If you think x11 programming is bad try wayland. It's a billion times worse for any non trivial task.

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Usually its because X fanbase refuses to accept new display server the same way they refused to accept any changes in their life since they turned 18. Its kinda the same situation as with 7niles and XPedos that still use something older than 10 in 2024. Both groups were always pathetic spergs, fixated on one, certain topic which usually got them a solid beating at school and even harder belting at home every other day.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous
      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        rent-free

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >rent-free

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous
    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There is no such thing as "X fanbase". People use X because it works, while Wayland does not. I'd gladly switch to Wayland if it didn't have insane shit such as mouse stuttering in 2024.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >There is no such thing as "X fanbase".
        There are literally dozens of crybabies all around the internet who are the definition of "X fanbase". Like I said, they are the linux equivalent of people who still use windows xp,7,8.x etc.
        >People use X because it works, while Wayland does not
        Blatant delusion. Wayland literally works and most of you simply got filtered by new technology. While there are some minor things to fix, its far from not working.
        >I'd gladly switch to Wayland if it didn't have insane shit such as mouse stuttering in 2024.
        Never happened to me on Cosmic with Wayland enabled. You most likely used some window manager that requires dicking around it and now cry that setup for tinkerers doesnt just work.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          years of development and it still doesn't have any gui automation (like actiona) available for that

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            X is much older and yet you still don't have a decent multi-monitor support (which works ootb on wayland).

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Multionitor on X11 literally just works. You have nothing left besides straight up lies.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You exerted more energy writing this shitpost than the entire Wayland dev team did during the last 15 years.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Never happened to me on Cosmic with Wayland enabled. You most likely used some window manager that requires dicking around it and now cry that setup for tinkerers doesnt just work.
          Literally still happens on GNOME Wayland. It doesn't happen on Windows, though, which is why you may not have noticed.

  14. 4 weeks ago
    VoidLinuxGuy

    Its fun to get angry and argue >:3

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They wouldn't be on Linux if they used what works.

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because having the larger userbase on your side means more bugreporting/development/support/documentation.

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because basement dwellers dont have anything better to do, its not like they have a job

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    That's the thing Wayland works but Xtards refuse to believe it or they use Nvidia...

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Wayland is trash regardless of GPU, stop blaming Wayland problems on Nvidia.

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Nobody would care if it was a choice, but they are now openly hostile toward x11 and remove it from distros and disable it in desktop environments by default (and many distros use default settings), despite the fact that there are many issues with Wayland, especially on nvidia. So there are people actively making linux worse/break for many people, making it work worse than linux did 15 years ago.

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    the age of the linux desktop will never happen until all users unify around a specific configuration of components

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      this is about as likely as the Great Khan unifying the Barbarian Mongol Tribes. Wait a thousand years and it'll happen.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        'tis jihad, then

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Flatpak + pipewire + wayland

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        bad good bad

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      wayland goes on the contrary direction, encouraging unofficial (therefore not portable) protocols if you wanna do even the bare minimum (like minimizing a window kek). After 16 years of existence it only has 5 stable protocols (good luck trying to do anything with those), in the meanwhile even hobby OSes achieves more in half the time (even rust hobby OSes that needs not only to program but also fight the compiler)

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Wayland has exploitable LPEs.
        Thanks anon, I think I'll just buy a mac at this point, though I am pretty sure it isn't something that will help me at all.
        I at least don't get my keystrokes recorded, but it looks like it isn't even worth entertaining wayland for now.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          > for now
          Unless Wayland changes its core design it will always be falling behind with a lot of vulnerabilities and increasing the attack surface (you need to pass data through many IPCs to do simple things like recording your screen). As that unlikely to happen we will have a kiosk display server being used as desktop...
          > mac
          At this point seems like a comfier choice. Sometimes seems like Linux is trying to destroy itself.
          > Launchd = SystemD without the drama
          > Quartz > Wayland
          > BSD Audio System > Alsa

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          > for now
          Unless Wayland changes its core design it will always be falling behind with a lot of vulnerabilities and increasing the attack surface (you need to pass data through many IPCs to do simple things like recording your screen). As that unlikely to happen we will have a kiosk display server being used as desktop...
          > mac
          At this point seems like a comfier choice. Sometimes seems like Linux is trying to destroy itself.
          > Launchd = SystemD without the drama
          > Quartz > Wayland
          > BSD Audio System > Alsa

          LPEs are irrelevant. Everything is littered with them. There isn't a desktop OS or hypervisor secure enough that you can just run arbitrary machine code with near zero chance of escape.

          Having a bad security model is an improvement over no security because for profit entities like Valve, Google, ... aren't going to use LPEs for customer data collection.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I at least don't get my keystrokes recorded, but it looks like it isn't even worth entertaining wayland for now.
            You do. Both Windows and Mac OS allow this as well, X11 is not unique in this regard. On a desktop system, the pros far outweigh the cons, as Wayland has proven.

            Maybe no clue anon, I just want to code and use my computer in peace.
            Still figuring out whether I am constantly dealing with:
            1. A hardware/firmware backdoor.
            2. Some vulnerability.
            The vuln would have to be in the web browser, image viewer, music player, video player.
            3. Just your run of the mill data collection from big tech. (if that was the case, that would exclude IQfy)

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            > LPEs are irrelevant
            it's not when it throws most of the work upward
            > having a bad security model
            its "security" model condemns it to be always falling behind (because of the level of abstraction it operates on, while it tries to isolate as if it were posix utils), increases attack surface (passing data through many IPCs to do simple tasks) what **nullifies** it's promises on security, it's already worse than xorg at this point (race condition by design, huge surface attack by design, crippled by design). It is a kiosk display server trying to be forced as desktop with the blessing from the demented that knows nothing about its working.
            > aren't going to use LPEs for customer data collection
            source trust me bro. even open source code they obfuscate and add "optional features" that gathers data. imagine when you can literally play with data in ways that are basically impossible to know what you are doing (race condition + lpe)

            I remember most people, including IQfy, being excited about Wayland around 8 years ago.

            At this point, I assume that most people back then merely assumed that Wayland had to be good just because it wasn't X. As time went on, with lack of progress, people actually took a closer look at Wayland and found that it's no better than X, and in many ways even worse.

            More and more actual graphics developers are either abandoning Wayland outright or merely ignoring it (see: PCSX2). My guess is that Wayland will never truly become the dominant GNU/Linux display server despite being aggressively pushed. And since maintaining support for two radically different display servers benefits nobody in practice, development will either converge back to X or a new alternative that is actually better will supersede it. In either case, Wayland is a dead end and the sooner it dies, the better.

            it's literally that see (drew devault one of the main devs from wlroots [what saved wayland from its constant state of absolute useleness]):

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Firejail+xyra x.org?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            > xyra
            what's that?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/firejail#Firejail_with_Xorg
            https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Xpra#As_xorg_sandbox

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >> aren't going to use LPEs for customer data collection
            >source trust me bro
            It's a federal felony in the US under the Computer Fraud & Abuse Act. Why do you have a lock on your front door when any Black person with a bump key can pop it open in 5 seconds?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            > achtually that's kinda illegal
            kek
            > can pop it open in 5 seconds?
            actually anon that's illegal

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >I at least don't get my keystrokes recorded, but it looks like it isn't even worth entertaining wayland for now.
          You do. Both Windows and Mac OS allow this as well, X11 is not unique in this regard. On a desktop system, the pros far outweigh the cons, as Wayland has proven.

  21. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous
    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I remember most people, including IQfy, being excited about Wayland around 8 years ago.

      At this point, I assume that most people back then merely assumed that Wayland had to be good just because it wasn't X. As time went on, with lack of progress, people actually took a closer look at Wayland and found that it's no better than X, and in many ways even worse.

      More and more actual graphics developers are either abandoning Wayland outright or merely ignoring it (see: PCSX2). My guess is that Wayland will never truly become the dominant GNU/Linux display server despite being aggressively pushed. And since maintaining support for two radically different display servers benefits nobody in practice, development will either converge back to X or a new alternative that is actually better will supersede it. In either case, Wayland is a dead end and the sooner it dies, the better.

  22. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  23. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    as long as emacs doesn't support wayland natively i won't use it

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      PGTK technically exists, but it has far worse performance than an X build so of course there is no reason to use it, as all things Wayland.

  24. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Whichever wins and sees mass adoption (by linux standards) becomes the thing people test their applications against and consequently everything else gets a reputation for not really working

  25. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    because gayland is a coordinated attack on linux

  26. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I do, and that is X11.
    But I was looking to get a new 4k monitor and reading up on HDR support it seems like Wayland is making progress on supporting HDR and X11 does not seem to have any active development going on for that support.

  27. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I wonder why many of you shill wayland, you don't even know how it works nor xorg.
    > it sucks mmkay
    mir was better and ended up at kiosk, while the kiosk display server (wayland) went forward. It will condemn linux for desktop (not completely for it still has xwayland), because it encourages the lack of portability by design (good luck trying to convince devs to port to a platform that has 5 stable protocols that are completely useless, so you need more that will make your app fail to run in many cases, like under mutter that does not implement wlroots protocols). Also the promises on security won't be valid under desktop, on the contrary it will increase attack surface reducing your security.

  28. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    People are weird, you can like/dislike something without it being the best/worst thing in existence

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      one could use a screw as hammer, still any sane person would notice it's a bad idea.
      > wayland
      good for kiosk, shit for desktop
      > best/worst thing in existence
      in the wayland case it will literally condemn linux to be even less portable (therefore less interesting for devs to port their software to it), it already sucks because of lib versioning, imagine now with decentralized protocols which also suffer from versioning. It's literally moving it toward its death

  29. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >why do people spend hours and days arguing over random shit
    welcome to the internet, OP

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