Why does worshipping this lead to hell, other than Jesus being vengeful? Explain.

Why does worshipping this lead to hell, other than Jesus being vengeful? Explain.

Beware Cat Shirt $21.68

Rise, Grind, Banana Find Shirt $21.68

Beware Cat Shirt $21.68

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    1981, Professor John N. Karmiris, University of Athens, based on his studies of the Church Fathers, concluded that the salvation of non-Christians, non-Orthodox and heretics depends on the all-good, all-wise and all-powerful God, who acts in the Church but also through other "ways." God's saving grace is also channeled outside the Church. It cannot be assumed that salvation is denied non-Christians living in true piety and according to natural law by the God who "is love" (1 John 4:8), In his justice and mercy God will judge them worthy even though they are outside the true Church. This position is shared by many Orthodox who agree that God's salvation extends to all who live according to His "image" and "participate in the Logos." The Holy Spirit acted through the prophets of the Old Testament and in the nations. Salvation is also open outside the Church. 1/2

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Some compare the Church to Noah's Ark. It is not impossible for someone to "survive the flood" of sin by clinging to whatever driftwood is around or by trying to cobble together a raft from bits and pieces of whatever floats, but the Ark is a far safer choice to make. Likewise, the heterodox and even non-Christians might be saved simply through God's own choice, made for His own reasons, but it is far safer for any individual person to turn to the Orthodox Church. Thus, it behooves Orthodox Christians to exhort others to take this safer path. Likewise, the Orthodox remember that Christ mentions one, and only one thing that unfailingly leads to perdition—blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. No other path is explicitly and universally excluded by Christ's words.

      As is common in many other faiths, the question of salvation for those outside of Orthodox Christianity is understandably secondary to what the Church expects of its own adherents. As St. Theophan the Recluse put the matter: "You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins... I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever." 2/2

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        > As St. Theophan the Recluse put the matter: "You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern.
        This is rich considering how much EO worry constantly about their own salvation. If one is constantly occupied with the question of God sending them to hell, as EO are, then it’s logical to extend that concern to others.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I have explored Christianity and have rejected it. I am not ignorant of the Yahwehist tradition. I prefer to pick up the Bhagavad Gita over the Bible because only the former fills me with immediate joy. Why is this evil? My chosen sacred text teaches the worship of God and hails compassion as the supreme virtue the same as yours.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The Gita is really close to being a Christian text, one just needs to ignore all the savage nonsense about reincarnation in it.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You literally can’t disentangle the Gita from the concept of the dehin. The philosophy is cyclical as opposed to linear Yahwehism. Bring in eternal judgment and boom, you instantly get Catholicism, Hinduism dies, so does joy and this philosophy’s ability to ease the suffering of souls.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah, every time I bring up Christianity with someone posturing as a sage of paganism he usually starts rambling about obscure nonsense while attempting to attach everything he dislikes onto Christianity, in spite of his total lack of any knowledge of it. I'm familiar with this approach, but at the end of the day the essence of the Gita, minus the reincarnation, is identical to the essence of Christianity: living a life of selfless service thinking only of duty and not worldly passion to be united with God as His perfect instrument.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It’s not obscure. The dehin is just the observer who is behind everything, who doesn’t make decisions, who just watches, life after life after life. Until it finds God, at which point it attains liberation. In a linear cosmology, this doesn’t work. For one, you have to worry suddenly about judgment—ease and peace instantly gone. For two, if you are truly this body, this person, who will be judged, etc. then the fact that nothing can harm you is instantly lost.

            End of the day, you can try to spin the philosophies to match up, but it’s just a different god. Yahweh punishes the worship of other gods. This means he hurts people who do that.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Your whole defense here is just projecting an image of exotic orientalism onto Hinduism where it's so deep and profound while Christianity is just mean and for bullies. I cannot stress enough how unserious and lazy this approach is. Your emphasis on "hurting people" is especially worthless in the context of defending the Gita, when that's what the whole text is about.
            >End of the day, you can try to spin the philosophies to match up,
            They're very different, I already acknowledged that. What you did not do here was address where I pointed out their similarity. As for the differences you highlighted, Christians are not excessively concerned with "linear" history at all when eternity is quite explicitly of greater importance in the Faith. And although I am a person I also have wondered if I in some sense transcend such categories as well, but that's just theorizing and it doesn't change the fact that I'm stuck in time for now and I need to live my life properly by orienting myself away from it. Your argument about judgment impeding that is cheap and lazy, I could easily say the same of karma.

          • 3 weeks ago
            {

            Read again
            > End of the day, you can try to spin the philosophies to match up, but it’s just a different god. Yahweh punishes the worship of other gods. This means he hurts people who do that.
            There is no need to get defensive. I’m not pretending eastern stuff is deep or profound. The philosophy of non-attachment just brings peace. This is a verse of the Gita:
            >vihāya kāmān yaḥ sarvān pumāṁś carati niḥspṛhaḥ
            >nirmamo nirahaṅkāraḥ sa śāntim adhigacchati
            “A person who has given up all desires for sense gratification, who lives free from desires, who has given up all sense of proprietorship and is devoid of ego—such a person attains peace.”

            Are you going to argue this? Isn’t this where belief in Jesus gets you as well?
            > Your emphasis on "hurting people" is especially worthless in the context of defending the Gita, when that's what the whole text is about
            What is hell if not Yahweh hurting people that would otherwise be living their life?
            > I could easily say the same of karma
            What is it that you would like to say about karma?

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because if the source of all the good you enjoy, all the good you have and are, is actually Jesus, and not human idol #2,467,986,764,654, then to give your love, loyalty and treasure to the idol, you commit injustice, and not just injustice toward ye olde rando collection of particles, but to goodness itself, the Good---God. That is treason toward reality itself. The highest possible crime in the universe.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      > to give your love, loyalty and treasure to the idol, you commit injustice, and not just injustice toward ye olde rando collection of particles, but to goodness itself, the Good---God. That is treason toward reality itself. The highest possible crime in the universe.
      If “goodness itself” fails to cause me joy the same as “human idol #2,467,986,764,654”, then I guess I am evil, even though I am literally practising a religion which teaches peace and joy and love and good ethics. And I am a sinner, even by my own religion. I don’t deny that. It’s a matter of which sacred text brings joy.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >If goodness itself fails to cause me joy the same as sexual indulgence, then I'm justified in rejecting goodness itself.
        I don't think this is an unfair equivalent. Would you also agree with this?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          How can a philosophy which teaches inner peace and explicitly advises against material pleasures and sexual lust (on the basis that pursuing these just propagates suffering and leads to more suffering) be compared to sexual lust?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It can't, but your determinant isn't how good or virtuous the final path might be, but how you subjectively feel about it: "fails to cause me joy". You will find the very heights of joy in a Christianity actually rooted in relationship with God, so the appearance of virtue doesn't seem to be the decisive factor behind your choosing. I'm just challenging you with the truth. Jesus rose from the dead. He is the way, and I know it can sound unpleasant, but He is the only way. Those are His words though, not mine.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            > your determinant isn't how good or virtuous the final path might be, but how you subjectively feel about it
            Why yes, I am a person who autonomously makes decisions based on perceptions as opposed to adhering to dogma for its own sake.
            > You will find the very heights of joy in a Christianity actually rooted in relationship with God
            OK, how? Traditional Christianity leads to neurotic scrupulosity. Protestant Christianity is as subjective as what I am speaking here today.
            > He is the way, and I know it can sound unpleasant
            This is what I don’t get. The truth is not unpleasant, spirituality is not a doom hole.
            > I'm just challenging you with the truth
            Good!

            If Jesus rose from the dead, it would make me happy, unless it means that neurotic scrupulosity is what is needed in order for me or any loved ones to not have harm inflicted upon us by Yahweh.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Well, I think you're speaking from an innocence with the faith, because you have only seen dysfunctional, quite sick examples of it. But no one judges the apple fruit by its most rotten harvests, but by its exemplars. Maximilian Kolbe is a Christian, and random IQfy shitposter is likely only his shadow. St. Francis de Sales didn't live a life of neurotic scrupulosity. The proper fruit of the faith is as clear as day:
            >But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.
            So you can count on it, that when you don't meet such things in a Christian, that you have not properly met the Holy Spirit. So I don't think you have an actual argument here.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Ok that works. Thanks for the spiritual advisory Anon. I’m not going to give up my friend Krishna though. Counting on him and JC being friends.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Well, God bless you, sir!

          • 3 weeks ago
            {

            Thanks!

            GOD DOES NOT SEND ANYONE TO HELL; ONESELF, BY REJECTING GOD, AUTOMATICALLY DELIVERS ONE'S SOUL TO SATAN.

            WORSHIPPING DEMONS ENTAILS REJECTING GOD.

            > GOD DOES NOT SEND ANYONE TO HELL; ONESELF, BY REJECTING GOD, AUTOMATICALLY DELIVERS ONE'S SOUL TO SATAN.
            If that’s true, why does it feel like joy instead of torment?

          • 3 weeks ago
            ࿇ C Œ M G E N V S ࿇

            GOOD, AND EVIL, ARE NOT CONTINGENT TO YOUR FEELINGS.

            IF EVIL DID NOT FEEL GOOD, NOONE WOULD EXERCISE IT; NOONE WOULD BE EVIL, AND, IF EXERCISING EVIL FEELS GOOD TO YOU, THERE IS ALREADY SOMETHING WRONG IN YOU THAT YOU SHOULD CORRECT.

          • 3 weeks ago
            {

            If morality doesn’t track human well-being/suffering then, as a concept, it is quite literally useless.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      But people worship Jesus as an idol. Why worship the messenger and not follow the message itself?

      >So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.

      >Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

      >On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Attempting to crudely make the finite into the infinite will naturally put distance between yourself and the infinite. If something as simple and obvious as that is just going completely over your head then it might be too late for you. "Jesus being vengeful" is also an equally accurate way to describe what I'm saying, and that should be enough of a justification, if only you were spiritually faithful.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >B-but you were distancing yourself from the infinite
      >Even though many traditional Christians literally employ statues
      Weak justification to hurt others.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Art is just art when you acknowledge it for what it is. When you treat someone it represents as if he were God that is spiritual infidelity. You may revere and love finite beings as much as you wish, but you can only ever be truly married to the One.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It’s not to scare them it’s to scare you into staying.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    ࿇ C Œ M G E N V S ࿇

    GOD DOES NOT SEND ANYONE TO HELL; ONESELF, BY REJECTING GOD, AUTOMATICALLY DELIVERS ONE'S SOUL TO SATAN.

    WORSHIPPING DEMONS ENTAILS REJECTING GOD.

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *