Why don't the dutch speak standard german

The dutch language should be a regional dialect

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because it's a separate country.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because Holland incidentally ended up outside the jurisdiction of the HRE as a result of the war against the Habsburgs, and was thereafter too individually strong to be subjugated by any other German state. Regardless, most Hollanders can speak High German anyway.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Dutch is a regional dialect, it's basically low German and had mutual intelligibly. It's current classification is dubious and falls around the same reason for Austrian and Swiss not being part of modern German.
    We could have had a kino timeline where instead of a German Empire, Prussia centered itself as a head of a Low German union or pan Nordic one by incorporating the Danish when they asked to join the North Germans

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This man cannot comprehend the concept of nationhood

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You will never have an ethno state

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Eh. Dutch and to a lesser degree swiss are mutually intelligible with the closest dialects, not with standard german. Austrian is much closer.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        "Dutch", as in Nordniederfränkisch, is directly spoken in some parts of the BRD(as is visible in OP's image), where it is referred to as "Platt". The speakers are not consciously aware that they are speaking "Dutch".

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >It's current classification is dubious and falls around the same reason for Austrian and Swiss not being part of modern German.
      Those are considered German since they use the exact same standard language as the BRD. The issue is that "Dutch" being considered a separate language is linguistically arbitrary since "Low German"(Saxon) is already accepted as German despite being equally related to High German. Genealogically they are 3 separate branches of West Germanic, but they have spent the vast majority of their history being consciously considered one language by their speakers, and are in a Sprachbund that caused them to be exceptionally similar to each other to this day. The "Dutch" language is fraudulent.

      I further want to note that the current understanding of "Low German" is an academic construct with no historic precedent. The term Low German, or Niederdeutsch, always included "Dutch" historically, describing all continental West Germanic varieties that did not display the High German consonant shift. The German word "Platt", which is sometimes glossed as "Low German" these days, traditionally refers to a much broader range of dialects including Central German. I live in Southern Hesse and the local dialect is also called "Platt".
      This is not to say that what "Low German" describes does not exist; it is the Saxon language. But its definition has only recently been narrowed down scientifically, and in organic popular use, it was never perceived as a concrete language in this way.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Dutch is more related to Franconian than it is towards Low German. The reason why it looks and sounds more like Low German is because it didn't participate in the High German Sound Shift and because of a Sprachbund with Low German.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Radiochan

    german and dutch originate from different languages, dutch actually originates from frankish

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      moronic troony

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Many German dialects originate from Frankish, as is blatantly clear on the map. "Frankish" was still a dialect of the Proto-West Germanic language, so it was able to undergo the High German consonant shift in the east and not in the north at the same time.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Lower Saxon is closer to English than it is to either Dutch or German

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The closest to English is Frisian but that one is considered its own language.
      High German and Lower Saxon are mutual intelligibly, even Frisian and German are mutual intelligibly this sin't the case with Modern English and Frisian but with Old English.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Insanely delusional statement, Low Saxon is more intelligible to the average Standard German speaker than Bavarian is

        They're Northsea Germanic Languages

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Diets not found
          >Lingua Teutonica not found
          Worthless

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Those categories are largely useless for present day mutual intelligibility

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Insanely delusional statement, Low Saxon is more intelligible to the average Standard German speaker than Bavarian is

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That was the case a thousand years ago, but today Low German is much closer to High German and Dutch than to English

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Dutch and Frisian both came from Diets aka Duyts, which in turn came from the Teutonic language. Caesar called the people speaking it Diabintes.
    https://www.noviomagus.info/diets.htm

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Standard German was based on the dialect that Martin Luther spoke, and spread with his writings. However, Dutch protestants were Calvinist. If Lutheranism had caught on here, then maybe we wouldn't have seceded from the HRE and we'd be part of Germany now, but that didn't happen.
    We already considered ourselves a different nation long before the German national awakening happened.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Standard German was based on the dialect that Martin Luther spoke
      No. Standard High German does not resemble any dialect that exists in the wild, although the Luther Bible helped spread some words that were local to the mid-east. Luther would have spoken an East Central German dialect akin to Thuringian or High Saxon. This dialect is an object of ridicule and considered to sound very funny, frequently mocked.
      >However, Dutch protestants were Calvinist.
      Many Germans are also Calvinist, such as in Switzerland. The Hohenzollern dynasty was Calvinist.
      >then maybe we wouldn't have seceded from the HRE
      You seceded from the HRE through the rebellion against Habsburg Spain, which was mainly an issue of national oppression by the Spaniards, and then Catholicism. The subtype of Protestantism is irrelevant.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Standard German was based on the dialect that Martin Luther spoke
      No. Standard High German does not resemble any dialect that exists in the wild, although the Luther Bible helped spread some words that were local to the mid-east. Luther would have spoken an East Central German dialect akin to Thuringian or High Saxon. This dialect is an object of ridicule and considered to sound very funny, frequently mocked.
      >However, Dutch protestants were Calvinist.
      Many Germans are also Calvinist, such as in Switzerland. The Hohenzollern dynasty was Calvinist.
      >then maybe we wouldn't have seceded from the HRE
      You seceded from the HRE through the rebellion against Habsburg Spain, which was mainly an issue of national oppression by the Spaniards, and then Catholicism. The subtype of Protestantism is irrelevant.

      It doesn't have anything to do with religion or German. The etymological origin of Dutch is Diets/ the old lingua Teutonica described by the Romans, spoken by the Teutones. These people lived near the English channel called "Het kanaal" in modern Dutch - now why would they call it "The canal" and not English Channel?! Because that's where there language originates from.
      German comes from the Alemanni people living in what is now Bavaria.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Diets is literally just the word Deutsch in the local dialect. This word never excluded other varieties of German.
        High German does not have any specific tribal origin.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That's a misunderstanding. Diets (Nederlands) is a separate language derived from the lingua teutonica (Teutonen), living in what is now called Flanders. German (Duits/Duyts) is derived from the Alemanni (Allemannen) from Bavaria. These people lived 800-1000km from each other.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You are a complete moron incapable of interpreting information correctly, I'm sorry to say. "Teutonen" do not even exist, the Teuton tribe was last heard of in the Cimbrian War, later usage of the term stems from confusion with the appearance of "Deutsch"(Thiudisk, Theodisc, Teutsch), with completely different etymology.
            Bavarians are not Alemannic, but Bavarian, Alemannic, Hollandish(Low Frankish), Saxon and so on are all German.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >You are a complete moron incapable of interpreting information correctly, I'm sorry to say. "Teutonen" do not even exist, the Teuton tribe was last heard of in the Cimbrian War, later usage of the term stems from confusion with the appearance of "Deutsch"(Thiudisk, Theodisc, Teutsch), with completely different etymology.
            Wrong. Old map of Sluis, near the Dutch/Flemish border from the 15th century. It very clearly referred to what we now call Dutch people, not German people. You are the moron who doesn't understand Teutonic = Diets = Dutch = Nederlands
            https://sanderusmaps.com/our-catalogue/antique-maps/europe/netherlands-cities/old-antique-map-of-sluis-by-braun-hogenberg-18537

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >TRANSLATION OF CARTOUCHE TEXT: Sluis very fair town in German Flanders.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Teutonicae Flandriae = Teutonic Flanders. There were other regions of Teutonicae like Frisia.
            Read: https://www.dbnl.org/tekst/kili001etym01_01/
            It's a dictionary of the Teutonic (Dutch/Diets) language. Contains old Dutch words, not German words.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            https://i.imgur.com/1jcw6qi.jpeg

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >"Teutonen" do not even exist
            Just wrong, wrong wrong. They even had a dictionary of the language.

            >Bavarians are not Alemannic, but Bavarian, Alemannic, Hollandish(Low Frankish), Saxon and so on are all German.
            No, Alemanni lived in what is now GEOGRAPHICAL Bavaria.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Btw this isn't even geographical Bavaria either, Mainz(Moguntiacum) and the Rhine are clearly indicated there.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >"Teutonen" do not even exist
            https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonen

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >At the Battle of Aquae Sextiae the Teutones were virtually destroyed and Teutonic King Teutobod was captured along with 20,000 of his tribesmen. After this, he and his tribe disappeared from history.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Yet we have maps showing Teutoniae Flandriae
            Do you not realize you are the moron here?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >later usage of the term stems from confusion with the appearance of "Deutsch"(Thiudisk, Theodisc, Teutsch), with completely different etymology.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >That's a misunderstanding. Diets (Nederlands) is a separate language derived from the lingua teutonica (Teutonen), living in what is now called Flanders. German (Duits/Duyts) is derived from the Alemanni (Allemannen) from Bavaria. These people lived 800-1000km from each other.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >"Teutonen" do not even exist, the Teuton tribe was last heard of in the Cimbrian War

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Yet we have maps showing Teutoniae Flandriae
            Do you not realize you are the moron here?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >TRANSLATION OF CARTOUCHE TEXT: Sluis very fair town in German Flanders.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >That's a misunderstanding. Diets (Nederlands) is a separate language derived from the lingua teutonica (Teutonen), living in what is now called Flanders. German (Duits/Duyts) is derived from the Alemanni (Allemannen). These people lived 800-1000km from each other.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Dictionarium Teutonico-Latinum was published in ANTWERP. By the Dutch people. Not anywhere in Germany by Germans.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Dutch
      >From Middle English Duch (“German, Low German, Dutch”), from Middle Low German dütsch, düdesch (“German, Low German, Dutch”)
      Antwerp is in Germany and its inhabitants are Germans, Dutch is synonymous with German in English until barely more than a century ago

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Dutch. From Diets. Not from German. You are a moron who can't read.
        Antwerp is not in Germany.
        >Dutch is synonymous with German in English until barely more than a century ago
        Does this look German to you?
        https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietsche_doctrinale
        >Het werk kende een groot succes, ook in Duitsland waar in de vijftiende eeuw een vertaling werd gemaakt onder de titel Der Leyen Doctrinal.
        This work was even TRANSLATED from DIETS into GERMAN, because GERMAN people could not DIETS.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Dutch. From Diets.
          The English word Dutch does not derive from this form, it comes straight from Saxon(Low German).
          >Does this look German to you?
          I can understand the entire article with no difficulty at all. I will even convert the first sentence to High German for you(it doesn't really warrant being called a translation)
          >Die Deutsche Doktrinale ist ein anonymes Mittelniederländisches Leergedicht basierend auf De amore et dilectione Dei (1238) von dem Italienischen Jurist Albertanus van Brescia.
          >This work was even TRANSLATED from DIETS into GERMAN, because GERMAN people could not DIETS.
          We need even MORE translation to understand Alemannic SWITZERS who are always SUBTITLED on TV because nobody can UNDERSTAND their DIALECT, but it is still called GERMAN and you consider it the SOURCE of GERMAN.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Diets comes from the word diet, which means people.
            >The English word Dutch does not derive from this form, it comes straight from Saxon(Low German).
            Saxon people like Frisians and Teutons spoke the lingua teutonica, which would later become diets and Nederlands (Dutch).

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Diets comes from the word diet, which means people.
            Deutsch also comes from the word diet, which also means people, even though that word in isolation is long obsolete and the vowels are different because they come from slightly different -iu- and -eu- forms at the depth of Proto-Germanic
            >Saxon people like Frisians
            Frisians are not Saxon, Frisian is a whole separate branch of West Germanic
            >spoke the lingua teutonica
            Lingua teutonica refers to quite literally all Germanic languages, but Continental West Germanic at minimum

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Frisians are not Saxon, Frisian is a whole separate branch of West Germanic
            Diets aka lingua teutonica.
            This is Frisian count of Holland Robbert the Frisian, from Flanders (not Germany).
            >Inter Saxones, quippe et Alemannos gens eius non tam lata quam valida; apud hystoricos Germania, nunc Francia dicitur (Gervasii Tilberiensis, Otia Imperiala, decisio 2 [10], in MGH, SS 27, p.373.)

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What argument are you making in this post?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >You are a moron who can't read.

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Julias Caesar was never in Germany, fyi. He was in Dietsland. Teutonica!

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    De Hollander is gehandicapt. Wat nou?

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