Why is it harder to find an SSD with dram cache?

It feels like it's harder and harder to find an SSD for sale that has a dram cache. With Samsung drives it's easy to know if it has dram, they always list it. But with other SSD's even the ones with dram, I have to go to reviews and techpowerup to verify if this is the case.

You'd think that the ones that still have dram would advertise it more as a selling feature, but for some reason they either don't mention it at all or bury it in small print somewhere.

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  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Depending on who you ask, DRAM cache is antiquated which is probably true for M.2 SSDs which aren't going to live a hard life or be asked of much.

    It's primarily cost cutting of course, enterprise SSDs still all have DRAM and the PLP systems to go with it

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >which is probably true for M.2 SSDs which aren't going to live a hard life or be asked of much
      Frick you my M.2. SSD works hard. I won't have a reddit-spacing gay insult my SSDs.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Not insulting, just speaking the truth lol
        The very vast majority of m.2 ssds will never be strained. They are gonna cost cut wherever.
        Part of the reason I don't buy consumer SSDs as a general rule. Too many U.2 SSDs out there at rock bottom SSD pricing.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Too many U.2 SSDs out there at rock bottom SSD pricing
          They're extremely expensive and usually much slower compared to M.2 drives

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Only because you look retail
            My 7.68TB WD U.2 was $450 almost 2 years ago, back when even a shitty Samshit QVO 8TB was $700+

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Where do you get those U.2 drives? From what I have seen on ebay the prices are shit.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Serverpartdeals
            SSD prices have gone up so prices aren't as good

            Why would I buy a used SSD with 600TBW on the clock?

            It was new

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Why would I buy a used SSD with 600TBW on the clock?

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because it's not a popular feature. It's not popular because almost no one benefits from it. Ever fewer people care about the fractions of a second of time it might save on an operation they don't have to wait for.

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Perhaps a modest work around would be a raid card that could hole 8 NVMe and has 8GB controller cache, then install 4 of those and span a volume across all 4 cards.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    But seriously I like Kioxia drives because their Exceria NVME and Exceria G2 drives are basically the cheapest drives with dram cache, besides some old stock intel 670p's that are still being sold. Yet if you go to Kioxia's site nowhere in those product listings do they mention it having dram cache.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Email their CTO and ask kindly to do the needful. It should take them 5 mins to update a website.

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    5-LAYER QLC GAMING NVME SSD PCIE GEN 5 2TB POGGERS (no dram + mediatek controller) WITH ADDRESSABLE RGB AND BLACK ALUMINUM HEATSINK (software requires email and account registration) TAKE CONTROL GAME FAST NVME SSD

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's really hard these days to find specifications for products that are listed for sale online. Quite annoying when I'm looking for cellular cards and the most they'll tell me are the bands that it's capable of and nothing about how it communicates with the computer.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      It's not really in the manuracturer's interest to publish this information or use it in marketing, it leads to situations where they get sued after well reviewed products quietly cost-cut everything and perform much worse but reviews still praise the initial versions.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >they get sued after well reviewed products quietly cost-cut everything and perform much worse but reviews still praise the initial versions.
        that practice should be illegal anyway. It’s a good thing they’re getting sued

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          This. It's a huge problem in the SSD space. One example that I can think of is the ever so popular Kingston NV2 because it's basically the cheapest NVME drive. The first versions had Phison controllers and Toshiba TLC flash and reviewed relatively well for budget drives. Then they swapped the controller to silicon motion one. And then later they swapped the nand flash from the 1tb and 2tb models to intel QLC flash. So the current versions of the drive don't share anything with the first versions.

          It's even worse because lots of the listings still say that the NV2 is a TLC drive, because at one point it was. But now it's a QLC piece of shit.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          This. It's a huge problem in the SSD space. One example that I can think of is the ever so popular Kingston NV2 because it's basically the cheapest NVME drive. The first versions had Phison controllers and Toshiba TLC flash and reviewed relatively well for budget drives. Then they swapped the controller to silicon motion one. And then later they swapped the nand flash from the 1tb and 2tb models to intel QLC flash. So the current versions of the drive don't share anything with the first versions.

          It's even worse because lots of the listings still say that the NV2 is a TLC drive, because at one point it was. But now it's a QLC piece of shit.

          They only do this shit because 99% of consumers literally won't ever notice unless they are looking for it, the consumer market is very unserious to manufacturers.
          You can really blame windows for this shit. Almost nothing in windows or desktop shit in general is built to take advantage of high speed storage so nearly all NVMe flash based SSDs perform similarly no matter how downgraded they are.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Such a shame intel is out of the SSD market. I don't think they ever pulled shit like that. Wonder of solidigm will do keep that up.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            List of SSD companies that have been known to pull this shit. Add more if you remember cases of other companies doing this.

            -ADATA (probably the most notorious for doing this)
            -Kingston
            -Crucial
            -WD
            -Samsung
            -Intenso

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >It's really hard
      no its not, atleast not as a german
      https://geizhals.de/?cat=hdssd&asuch=&bpmin=&bpmax=&v=e&hloc=de&plz=&dist=&mail=&sort=t&bl1_id=30#productlist
      you're not an Untermensch, are you?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >samsung
        Show another oem. Samsung always tells whether it has dram or not. It's the other oems that are the problem.

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because it's mostly pointless.

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    High-capacity SATA SSDs are also going extinct.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Not just high capacity. Decent non bottom barrel bin tlc and qlc dramless drive sata drives are going extinct.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        And also while NVME drives can somewhat get by being dramless thanks to using HBM. Sata drives can't use HBM. Meaning they really show the disadvantage of being dramless.

        A good example is the WD Blue SA510 that WD quietly made to replace the WD Blue 3D nand. The SA510 is a piece of shit drive that replaced a decent drive.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          You do realize that these drives have HMB (Host Memory Buffer) and not HBM (High Bandwidth Memory), right?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            yes

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >the WD Blue SA510 that WD quietly made to replace the WD Blue 3D nand
          >The SA510 is a piece of shit drive that replaced a decent drive
          I remember I bought two of those on a whim since I needed some SSDs for two old PCs and I'd gotten some good cheap SSDs from WD before. It wasn't until I saw the reviews online that all said that these SSDs tended to fricking kill themselves and take all stored data with them that I immediately returned those pieces of shit.
          That's what I get for trusting WD I guess. They used to make good shit until suddenly they didn't.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            WD quality has gone downhill fast

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Newer ones with hmb perform nearly the same as dram nvme, see: any nvme with that maxio controller and chink flash like netac nv7000-t.

    Performance nearly identical, uses less power with no dram. Makes less heat.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      What said. NVME SSDs come with HMB now making DRAM obsolete. You only need DRAM if its a SATA drive or the host machine is incapable of HMB.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >You only need DRAM if its a SATA drive or the host machine is incapable of HMB.
        Very dumb post.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >hard dick chip

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Obviously watch for outright design flaws defects in any product, but for SSD reliability all that matters is the TBW rating, the OEM warranty and user benchmarks.

      If you're doing workloads that would heavily wear your SSD then RAM disks are still a reasonable solution, especially if you have an uninterruptible power supply. RAM/UPS are both dirt cheap these days.

      This.

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    how about stop cheaping out on quality hardware

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Oh yay, so instead of the controller overheating and shitting itself after 4 minutes it can shit itself in 5 minutes and throttle itself to half its burst speed. I'm so excited!

  12. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because Black person cattle will still buy

  13. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    there is like no way in Heaven, hell or earth that I can believe that none of those ports connect wirelessly to send your data to the feds.

  14. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >cheap/budget/mid model
    Most likely 99% no dram

    >premium model
    Most likely has dram. Quick double check tech specs or review site. Yep has dram. Was it that hard anon?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Expect that's not true. For example the cheapest 1tb drive here is the Kingston NV2 for 68 euros. For 71 euros you can get the ADATA XPG SPECTRIX S40G RGB which has dram. (a rather small 128mb of ddr3, but still has dram). And for 73 euros you can get the Kioxia Exceria G2, whic has lower sequential speeds. But has more dram and it's ddr4.

      Just for comparison to premium drive pricing. The Samsung 970 evo plus 1tb is 88 euros, while the 990 pro is 124 euros.

  15. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    because you don't need dram. HMB exists and everyone uses it and you don't have to worry about even more unreliable garbage memory in weird places (like your NVMe drive).

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      kek
      the poverty cope is funny

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        no, it's called not being moronic. DRAMless is strictly superior from a reliability standpoint and you're delusional if you think otherwise. Reminder Applel SSDs lie when told to flush to storage by default because they're DRAM backed garbage. Learn how your OS's writeback cache works and you'll realize caching on the storage device is a fricking meme.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Are you being paid by WD?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >you don't have to worry about even more unreliable garbage memory in weird places
      Don worry, the memory inside SSDs isn't binned by moronic Taiwanese vendors you probably complain about but still asslick by buying their garbage

  16. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >have DRAM on NVMeme drive
    >tell drive to fsync
    >it doesn't

    that's why. Host's view of the filesystem is a better cache anyhow.

  17. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >wanted to build an all-flash NAS, and finally have some cash to start putting it together
    >prices are now through the roof on everything, and it's nigh impossible to work out of what options (if any) use the same components as advertised when reviewed
    What also doesn't help is it's almost impossible to buy an embedded/server motherboard in Australia. Like, at all. So there goes that idea.
    eg. Our single local distributer for Asrock Rack hasn't restocked any of their shit in the months I've been checking their website, and the other company that deals with Supermicro doesn't sell to end-users, and there's frickall on eBay that isn't a >decade old.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I have these anon.
      https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Plus-PCIe-NAND-5000MB/dp/B0B25M8FXX
      I got them on sale for 200 bucks each and they seem to still "just work."

      they're dramless and QLC, but my server has 99% health left because I have 64GiB of memory and VFS cache is good enough to prevent needless writes.

  18. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Without dram when I download something and use the SSD as primary OS drive I get stutters when watching videos. Not exactly useless feature.

  19. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Harder? It isnt harder you just want to be a cheapass and have an immature expectation that everything you want should be both THE BEST and somehow also THE CHEAPEST.

  20. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    DRAM cache is completely pointless on nvme drives, since they all just use your main RAM as cache.
    What actually matters is the quality of the NAND flash chips and the amount of channels it gets fed.
    Here's a DRAMless WD Blue completely demolishing other "Pro" drives at sustained writes.

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