Why is Joseph Smith seen as an illegitimate religious figure compared to people like Jesus, Muhammad, and Buddha?

Why is Joseph Smith seen as an illegitimate religious figure compared to people like Jesus, Muhammad, and Buddha?

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  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's highly likely he was trolling

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      FPBP wins again.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        It's highly likely he was trolling

        This tbh. Look into the numerous parallels between freemasonry and Mormonism/JW's (which they themselves can't deny on their own websites) and you'll see numerous examples that both religions are most-likely off-shoots of freemasonry with EVEN MORE sexual debauchery involved.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Dangerous rabbit hole

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Mormons are mostly an American thing, as most religions are. Even Jihadis in Afghanistan and Pakistan were educated into jihadism by American textbooks. Religion is used as a method of control, because religious leaders are possessed by demons.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >EVEN MORE sexual debauchery involved.
          I know that Mormons post polygamy being banned have a reputation for being notoriously sexually kinky, but JW? Tell me more.

        • 1 month ago
          JWanon

          Joseph Smith even became a mason and put blood oaths into his false religion.

          >EVEN MORE sexual debauchery involved.
          I know that Mormons post polygamy being banned have a reputation for being notoriously sexually kinky, but JW? Tell me more.

          JWs are pretty famous for being swingers. That, and the rampant child abuse that you need two people to witness to even accuse someone of.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >for being swingers
            Is this a UK thing?
            I was raised in the org and definitely something like that would lead to disfellowshiping. The child sexual abuse is of course incredibly saddening, but as far as I know, and I know Bethel insider info, as soon as it is discovered it is immediately resolved; entire congregations being dissolved and elders disfellowshiped. Unlike Catholics that move a priest to a different parish. Plus the two witness rule only is only relevant to issues internal to the church. Families can still go to the police regardless and if the police confirm, that can act as a "second" witness. But yeah, power corrupts and children are easy to decieve

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >i found the these tablets and jesus was over here n shiet
      >wow joseph thats crazy can we see the tablets
      >i lost them lmao

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Well because Joseph Smith emerged in the 1800's in America, which is nearly 1800 years after Christ and he has no relation to any of the Prophets of the OT. Point of the OT was to prophecy towards Christ, Christ came and so the revelation is done.

      this

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Point of the OT was to prophecy towards Christ
        it wasn't

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          it certainly was. some 50 OT prophecies fulfilled in Jesus life and this subsequent Church age. And there are 100 more that will be fulfilled when He comes again to tread the winepress of God's wrath and consummate His wedding and rule for 1,000 years on the earth.
          But ... if the OT does not point to Christ the Lord, what do you think it's pointing to?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >500 BC
            >in 700 years all nations will learn of the God of Israel
            >"...i-it was a lucky guess"

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        See, the mormon counter to this argument is very simple: Joseph Smith Jr was made a prophet because the original teachings of christ had been forgotten. It was then his job to restore them.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      He wasn't trolling - he was a professional con artist. He was a manipulative opportunist, not a jokester.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        You can also troll and profit.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Sure, but Joseph Smith was pretty clearly a swindler and a chiseler. Dude was fricking a bunch of his followers wives and had reportedly 40+ of his own after creating his little cult. He even got murdered by dissatisfied dissidents whose wives he had tried to frick.

          He was clearly a manipulative sex-pest who wanted to indulge himself off of the stupidity of others.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Fpbp, I just feel bad for the poor suckers around today who have to live a restricted life because of it and have to try convert strangers all the time.

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because we have far more detailed evidence about what Smith's life was actually like, whereas we know barely anything about Yeshua, Siddhartha's life entirely sourced through the vast collection of his (early followers') teachings, and most of what we know about Muhammad is basically fables.

    Also Smith's followers are stereotyped as being incredibly White which makes them a very easy target for Antiwhite bigotry in line with the state ideology of the country that most Mormons live in.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Namely the fact that he was a known teller of tall tales.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        A lot of the early accounts of smith being a serial liar come from anti Mormon publications. If he was a renowned fibber then why did so many of his neighbours, friends and family follow him?

        You'd think it would be a case of boy who cried wolf if he lied all the time,?

        This is unfair to Muhammad. The Quran at least has some value as early Arabic literature. And Muhammad's sexual morality fell line with the culture he was raised in. Smith brought up the polygamy on his own accord.

        Polygamy was practiced in the old testament stories so.......

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >If he was a renowned fibber then why did so many of his neighbours, friends and family follow him?

          >why did his friends and family follow a rich guy with hundreds of followers tithing to him?

          you know what, I'm sold.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            That came later. For most of the early days they were very unsettled and moved from town to town as they were kicked out. The Johnson family had a productive farm and land that they gave up on a wim. When the Mormons moved to Missouri most of them travelled on foot, begging along the way for bed and food. Then when they were kicked out they had to travel back. These are not the sort of wealthy patrons you are suspecting them to be.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            ?
            I didnt say Josephs patrons were wealthy.
            They didn't have to be; he received tithes from tens of families. He was a wealthy man from controlling hundreds of people's money.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          People don’t like to give up their belief in a conman after they’ve been conned, no matter how obvious that might become. Once they’re in, they’re in it for life.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >If he was a renowned fibber then why did so many of his neighbours, friends and family follow him?
          Ask Donald Trump’s followers why they follow him. The average person is way more gullible than you might think.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Knowing God's humor, why wouldn't he make a teller of tall tales a messenger? Would be funny

    • 2 months ago
      Lucretia simp

      Namely the fact that he was a known teller of tall tales.

      This

      https://i.imgur.com/OV9qm1e.jpg

      Why is Joseph Smith seen as an illegitimate religious figure compared to people like Jesus, Muhammad, and Buddha?

      Another reason is mainly because of the South Park episode about Joseph Smith. Truly made Mormonism look stupid

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Dum dum dum dum
        dum dum dum dum

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Mormonism did that to itself though.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >in line with the state ideology of the country that most Mormons live in.
      But Mormons aren't even exclusively white lol.
      There are a shitload of black, Asian and Hispanic Mormons.

      >Smith brought up the polygamy on his own accord.
      They were kind of forced into it because so many of the early mormon converts were women, adult female mormons outnumbered adult male mormons by something like 5:1. Also as we've seen in modern dating, women don't actually have a problem with polygamy, it's only the incels that dislike it and they don't matter.

      >women don't actually have a problem with polygamy
      Lol, first completely braindead statement.
      >it's only the incels that dislike it and they don't matter.
      Lol, holy shit. Imagine if you actually knew what the word "incel" even meant. Imagine if you actually had a brain.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Found the roastie.
        Women don't have a problem with polygamy. They *say* they have a problem with it, but when offered the opportunity in real life to either (a) multiplex a hot successful chad or (b) solo a guy at their level, nearly all of them take option (a) without a second's hesitation. We've been seeing them do it for at least a decade now. Eventually, like you, they'll hit the wall and be sad that chad never settled down with them, and they may eventually bow to their post-wall reality and marry that mid guy that's been orbiting them for years, but had they not hit the wall they would have happily shared chad with the rest of his harem forever.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Found the roastie.
          >Women don't have a problem with polygamy.
          No, women have no problem with polyandry...
          Women appose anything that locks them in with one guy.
          Aside from that the vast majority of the world's population is monogamous. Only 2% of the world population at most are polygynous. It is mathematically impossible for the majority of a country to be polygynous.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Aside from that the vast majority of the world's population is monogamous.
            The poly people can't get multi-married in most countries. So they have 0-1 legal wives with a harem instead. The data would struggle to accurately report on poly people, due to the laws in most countries not allowing for it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      They are incredibly white. Although increasingly less so as spics/polynesians slowly convert.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >They are incredibly white. Although increasingly less so as spics/polynesians slowly convert.
        The only Mormons I ever saw in Australia from America were two dark skinned south Americans and one white dude...

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          And? Most Mormons still live in the U.S (Utah and immediations, specifically) and they usually don't go on international trips.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            America is an interracial sex shithole anon.
            No, you guys proselytize fricking everywhere, so do the Jehovah's Witnesses.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I'm not a mormon, however just because mormons send missionaries through the entire world doesn't mean most of them don't live in their landlocked U.S pseudo-Zion.

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Time. That's literally it. He is too recent and we live in an age of soience, so it's unimaginable for anything except soience to exist.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Beneath your shitpost, there is a high level of truth. The answer is literally time.
      Smith only died about 150 years ago.
      Jesus was 2000 years ago.
      Muhammad was 1400 years ago.
      Buddha was 2500 years ago.
      Our records for Joseph Smith are far more robust, than we have on Jesus, Muhammad, or Buddha.

      He's white and has no soul

      >He's white
      This does have an element of truth to it, but I wouldn't say it's a significant portion, when compared to the time frame.

      We don't like them because Mormons are creepy collectivist fricks and form a high percentage of glowBlack folk.

      >We don't like them
      This is certainly part of it too. If Mormons had better PR, they'd be viewed as a far more legitimate religious group.

      [...]
      This

      [...]
      Another reason is mainly because of the South Park episode about Joseph Smith. Truly made Mormonism look stupid

      >South Park episode
      Ehhhhh..... a little bit. More so with younger people, than in general. Mormons were disliked before the SP episode, but it did bring it to more people.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    He's white and has no soul

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    We don't like them because Mormons are creepy collectivist fricks and form a high percentage of glowBlack folk.

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    recent enough so we know the full storie from the outside
    Jesus and Muhammad would have been equally(or even more) seen as schizos or scammers/grifters cult leaders if they were more recent figures
    Buddha too, but in a lesser degree due to his shit being less "god told me X/gave me a revelation" and more of "I spend some time thinking about the random shit I did in my life and I came to Y conclusion"

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Say what you like about the man's history, it is a very comfy religion with great architecture, inspiring music and art, and strong communities with good values. It also represents a cultural time capsule of old America and that's a good thing. They should stop modernising though. Not a Mormon btw.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >inspiring music and art
      lmao
      lmfao even. they literally dont produce artists and their 'hymns' are absolute shit. unless youre talking about lindsay sterling, i which case
      LMFAO

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        seething moron
        also
        >lindsay sterling is a mormon
        what?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >what?
          Lindey Sterling is, in fact, a mormon.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        lol no. This is absolutely beautiful.

        ?si=-_qRhGZwBn9UbZ9J

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    He’s not

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    the aryans converting to christianity means they defer to israelites for religion, and only in israelites, and in suffering, is there religious legitimacy

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Joseph Smith is Muhammad but White

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      This is unfair to Muhammad. The Quran at least has some value as early Arabic literature. And Muhammad's sexual morality fell line with the culture he was raised in. Smith brought up the polygamy on his own accord.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        The Quran basically gave birth to modern day Arabic unlike Latin which failed to be revived despite a large portion of Christian text being written in Latin. That's because basis knowledge of Arabic was required to recite and understand it back in those days.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Smith brought up the polygamy on his own accord.
        They were kind of forced into it because so many of the early mormon converts were women, adult female mormons outnumbered adult male mormons by something like 5:1. Also as we've seen in modern dating, women don't actually have a problem with polygamy, it's only the incels that dislike it and they don't matter.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Mormons loop back into being feminist. When I was in it for a year I noticed it was very feminine.
          A true religion doesn't disproportionately attract women.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Religions in general seem to disproportionately attract women. Women don't care about logic and evidence, that's a guy thing, and the more contradictions a religion has so much the better - they live that shit.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Women don’t have any power in Mormonism. Some stake in San Francisco got in trouble with church leadership for allowing female members to sit on the same level as male priesthood holders during services.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Women don’t have any power in Mormonism.
            I see you're a legitimate moron who doesn't understand what implicit power is.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Ok, professor, tell us what implicit power is.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Male "priesthood holders" do literally nothing.
            You go and "feel good" and make the women feel hypersecure in a feminine setting and you get to have pussy in return.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            What is a feminine setting?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Women don’t have any power in Mormonism
            This contradicts this
            >allowing female members to sit on the same level as male priesthood holders during services.
            If women really had no power under modern Mormonism that never would have even happened.
            Old school Mormonism sure, but not today.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Wowzers they let the Femoids sit next to the mens? Truly they are great feminist allies.
            Women don't have any institutional or theological power in Mormonism. Men get the priesthood, women get motherhood, that's the party line. It's actually becoming a serious problem because of the skewed demographics of the church, they're having trouble filling up lower and mid level leadership positions. Because women can't hold these positions but they don't have enough men.

            Found the roastie.
            Women don't have a problem with polygamy. They *say* they have a problem with it, but when offered the opportunity in real life to either (a) multiplex a hot successful chad or (b) solo a guy at their level, nearly all of them take option (a) without a second's hesitation. We've been seeing them do it for at least a decade now. Eventually, like you, they'll hit the wall and be sad that chad never settled down with them, and they may eventually bow to their post-wall reality and marry that mid guy that's been orbiting them for years, but had they not hit the wall they would have happily shared chad with the rest of his harem forever.

            Sure that's why Emma Smith, protested against it, and why Helen Kimball had to be coerced by her parents into it. And why never of them went with Young and his merry band of perverts to Utah. Emma becoming part of the RLDS (non polygamous Mormons) and why Helen stayed clear of all LDS groups. Because they just wanted to be part of a harem.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Women don't have any institutional or theological power in Mormonism.
            Legally they do because of the countries they live in. If they don't like their husband they can still make up an abuse incident and take 50% of his life's savings.
            Also you mentioned the incident of a Mormon church allowing a female priest.
            >Men get the priesthood, women get motherhood
            So normal human behavior since the start of recorded history lol. They don't strictly follow that because they follow the law but they should.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            No, what I said was that these positions are being left empty. They aren't elevating women to leadership positions because to become a leader you have to have the priesthood which women don't. What the other poster was talking about was women physically sitting next to male leaders, not taking a chair as in a position of authority, put a literal piece of furniture. That caused enough of an issue for the church to get involved. Shit, just talking about heavenly mother is a coin toss on if you get pulled into a disciplinary council. As for your claim about gender hierarchy being an eternal condition. It just wrong, factually. I mean the fricking Israelites hadn't even been elevated to sapience via rape by Babylonians, Assyrians, and Greeks when other civilizations were doing all sorts of superstitious shit with women and whatever words they used for the T's and Q's back then. Granted none of them made it past the iron age for the most part. But they probably had other more prominent failures and contradictions that caused them to be wiped out.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You're just insane then lol.
            The west is dying and being replaced by third worlders because it is the most "female friendly" place on the planet.
            Whenever women are given the vote everything goes to shit.
            The modern Mormons aren't at all repressive towards women. You are actually mentally disabled to even think that.
            If you want actual female repression you need to go to the middle East.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Deznat slime

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Deznat slime
            What does Deznat even mean anon?
            Can you translate into English

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          A common myth not born out in the historical record. Both In Nauvoo and later Utah Men always outnumbered women. This was because settling a new land was not an attractive prospect to single women. However it was attractive to families and to a lesser extent single men. The latter because they would be able to set up their own farms, ranches, and larger homes on cheaper land. The former because having land would increase their marriage prospects and wealth. A single woman owning land out west would have been unconventional at the time. Why a single guy could hire farm hands provided he had the money, a woman doing it wouldn't be taken seriously at best, at worst taken advantage of.

          Religions in general seem to disproportionately attract women. Women don't care about logic and evidence, that's a guy thing, and the more contradictions a religion has so much the better - they live that shit.

          The reason why women make up a larger population of current day stakes and wards is because women are socially conditioned to be be less independent than men, especially in LDS culture. Kind of hard to be a trad wife outside of the trad to put it simply. And Women are heavily conditioned to be wives and mothers first and foremost before anything else in the Mormon church. For their entire childhood it's hope chests, lessons about how Heavenly Father has already personally selected out spirit children for them to provide bodies for, coming up with names for your future kids and deciding which temple you'll get married in, and most importantly lessons on why if your husband has a mask in faith you have to drop him immediately. Because again your worth is determined by your husband and your family, specifically how faithful to the church and the prophet. This all ties into the idea of celestial marriage and how you can't become exaltated to the highest glories of heaven unless you are married to another faithful member. If your husband leaves the church you ain't gonna become a goddess, your not going to breed a legion of spirit children for his planet, because he'll be in outer darkness and you might be too if you don't fix him or nix him.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Both In Nauvoo and later Utah Men always outnumbered women. This was because settling a new land was not an attractive prospect to single women. However it was attractive to families and to a lesser extent single men.
            Wrong
            Read travel journals of people who went to mid 19th century Utah. Women massively outnumbered men

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Anon, we literally have population statistics from Utah and Nauvoo. They were sausage fests. The Church had to engage in sending young men out on missions and human trafficking girls to satisfy the leadership's desire for a pedo harem. There were congressional inquiries and laws made because of it.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The Mormon church is a bit aware that a lot of guys hate being Mormon so the church has to keep up the promise of providing a good, cute wife to make it worthwhile to suffer the tortures of missionary work, paying 10% of your income yearly, and do any free grunt work the ward demands without complaining. Funny thing is though even that isn't always a guarantee guys stay. The JW apparently have a whole cultural of women who are stuck being single because there aren't enough JW guys to go around and the Watchtower frowns on marrying outsiders unless you can convert them.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        she was only nine years old, you monster. this wasn't normal, even for them.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >The Quran at least has some value as early Arabic literature.
        It has no value.

      • 1 month ago
        Cult of Passion

        >brought up
        Redressed*.

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because he had been previously outed as a con man.
    He should more properly compared to L Ron Hubbard.

  12. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    The only people who see Muhammad as legitimate are muslims.

  13. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Lack of followers
    >Jesus, Buddha
    relatively easy religions with few restrictions on followers
    >Mohammad
    got a following through imperial force.
    Mormonism simply has too many rules and are too nice to force others to follow them.

  14. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    My favourite figure in early Mormon history is Ezra Booth. The first apostate of the LDS faith. But what is weird is that he joined the church after Joseph smith healed his neighbours wife's arm in an apparent miracle.

    But in all his letters denouncing Mormonism he never refutes smiths healing miracles that caused him to convert in the first place. He clearly didn't believe him to be a true prophet but still believed in his ability to heal with just a touch.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >He clearly didn't believe him to be a true prophet but still believed in his ability to heal with just a touch.
      Faith healing was generally believed to be "a thing" that people could just "do" back then.
      Same way people just believed Joseph could "see" treasure hidden in the earth and hired him for his "services"

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        But unlike the treasure hunting the healing isn't a matter of belief. You don't join a church because someone pretended to heal your arm it's either healed or it is not.

        >Elsa Johnson had been afflicted for many years with a rheumatic arm. She experienced so much pain and difficulty in movement that for two years she hadn’t been able to raise her hand to her head. As the Johnsons and others from the Hiram area visited with Joseph Smith in the Newel K. Whitney home, they discussed the gifts of the Spirit as held in the early Church. Someone asked whether God had given power to men today to heal people like Elsa Johnson. After the conversation had turned to another subject, the Prophet [Smith] walked up to Elsa and said, 'Woman, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ I command thee to be whole,' and then he walked out of the room. Elsa was instantly healed, and the next day she did her washing 'without difficulty or pain.'"

        Mr and Mrs Johnson both joined the church straight away and Ezra booth, there Methodist minister friend who witnessed the healing converted too. Just such a strange account of a miracle with witnesses in the modern age. Maybe Smith was so good at lying that he convinced her that her paralysed arm was actually fine. Maybe he was a master hypnotist or maybe it was something more supernatural.

  15. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    He born at JUST the right time in history that we know he was a scamming piece of shit

    Jesus, Mohammed, and Buddha were JUST obscure enough during their lifetimes that we don’t have any meaningful records of their lives beyond what their followers tell us

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      The problem with Mormons is that they have a thief mentality; once they realize J Smith was a piece of shit they just assume Jesus was too.
      There's no logical reason for this to be the case though; "a thief thinks everyone steals"
      Even Buddha was a spoiled idiot imo but it wouldnt surprise me if he was a genuine guy who was a nihilist who wanted to zero sum everyone so they could escape suffering.

      Basically; there's a pattern to cult leaders; they generally dont lead normal lives at all. They have a history of scamming people. Think Mohammed being a sugar baby to his rich first wife. Or J smith being a fraud and magician.
      Being a carpenter or a fisherman most of your life (or even being a prince) generally indicates some level of honesty to someone's character.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >once they realize J Smith was a piece of shit they just assume Jesus was too
        maybe because for anyone who is not indoctrinated or sub-80 IQ can easly see that Jesus was no different than other schizo cult leaders

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          good argument with backing evidence.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            so tell me how was he different

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            For one, he didn’t want preach that everyone but him was wrong on doctrine, but said that even the Pharisees taught* a lot of good but were hypocrites.
            He also didn’t baptize himself like Joseph Smith did.

            He worked an actual job (carpentry).
            He didn’t keep the money, Judas Iscariot did.
            There’s more. The problem is that you equivocate everything you don’t like into being the worst it could possibly be.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Jesus drowned everyone except Noah's family in a flood. That's not nice.
            See? This is where taking what the Bible says at face-value gets us

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            we're not talking about how "nice" they are but whether or not they were honest.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Alright. It's not like Mormonic scripture make Joseph out to be a liar.

            Our are we allowed to use our other background knowledge as well?
            Then Jesus is most definitely a liar, he makes serval supernatural claims. But in actuality, magic isn't real.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You have background knowledge that Jesus was a moneydigger before becoming a preacher?
            What background knowledge are you referring to?
            An agreed upon fact of history is Jesus' baptism by John; what would you infer from this as opposed to J Smith baptizing himself?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I mean like Jesus claiming that we get to be saved and stuff
            But in reality, people die when they die.
            Makes him a liar

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            *tips menorah*

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            He's probably just a Mormon tbh.
            They're some the most dishonest people around when they're in the cult. When they get out of the cult they voraciously hate every religion as though they all equally duped them (it was just Mormonism, bro).

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            In your mind there is no way a preacher from the 1st century believed in an afterlife?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            In your mind there is no way a preacher from the 19th century believed in Native American Israelites and that God lives on the planet Kobold?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            it's certainly possible, but considering that he had a reputation for making shit up it's thrown into doubt. It's not possible to determine how much he believed what he said, considering he mirrors modern observable con artists in a way Jesus (or even Buddha) do not. Even Mohammed was a cult leader but he generally was straight forward "Might is right" with his theology. There was probably a higher chance of Mohammed believing himself to be "right" than J Smith, who just wanted money. At least Mohammed's culture generally held the worldview that prosperity equaled divine favor.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Okay, so you're argument is basically that it's more probable that these kind of supernatural stories are made-up, rather than they really happened
            Same thing with Jesus' stories

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            no, I am saying Joseph Smith was much less likely to have been honest with his claims than other influential preachers.
            I think you know exactly what I'm saying but it causes you mental distress.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Clearly it has something to do with the implausibility of the claim too, in fact, that seems much more important
            not just Joseph's character

            It's not like you believe anything, just because the guy who said it, isn't known for being a liar

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            what am I saying that I believe?
            I am saying Jesus probably believed in what he was teaching/doing but J Smith didn't.
            It's more likely Buddha believed in what he was teaching/doing than J Smith.
            And it's really a preacher to preacher basis. People can be more or less* honest whether or not they're mistaken.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            That was the Father. The Son was the one who saved Noah.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            strange heresy added to the discussion.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Fishermen are notorious for lying, and as for carpenters have you ever actually measured a 2x4?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          not an argument but that was funny.

          Religions in general seem to disproportionately attract women. Women don't care about logic and evidence, that's a guy thing, and the more contradictions a religion has so much the better - they live that shit.

          fundamentalists who enforce morality are a bit more even
          bitchy catty social clubs are what most religions have become*

  16. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because the guy has a well-documented criminal record antedating his supposed prophetic revelations that makes Muhammad look like a schoolgirl.
    Imagine if there was a mile-long list of verifiable Roman codices detailing the many confidence schemes and phony magic tricks of a Yeshua ben Yusuf around 25 AD about how he was scamming old Roman matrons out of their inheritance and then fricking them like Rasputin, and the first chapter of Matthew goes "yeah we know all about that, but then he did it FOR REAL this time! but we only accepted his word at face value, he didn't have any witnesses"
    Nobody on earth would be a Christian, only doddering half-baked protestant Anglo-Americans are gullible enough to fall for this, the same way they think telephone psychic readings and horoscopes are real.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      How many Protestant Anglo-Americans do you know irl, Jamal?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Is that Jamal supposed to imply that I'm black or that I'm a Muslim? If I were an african-american I'd be protestant by default, but it'd be bizarre to assume that I'm Muslim in a post that involves me insulting the Prophet Muhammad (Piss be upon that pedophile burning in hell)

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Do you realise that protestant Anglo-Americans are the ones who love watching their wives getting fricked by Jamal and his Black friends with 9 inchers? They are some of the most depraved people I have met and that's why I just hang out with atheists.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Why is Joseph Smith seen as an illegitimate religious figure compared to people like Jesus, Muhammad, and Buddha?
    too many people are smart enough to see that con man/robber demanding tithe in new version of religion is shady. the religion (cult) will stagnate and die off just as quickly as it got started.

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    he couldnt perform miracles

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Muhammad was just as much of an obvious scammer. My religion is real (for realsies this time guys), his obvious and massive preferential treatment for himself, his ability to command an army through rape and pillaging that promised carnal pleasure in the afterlife. Unlike Joseph Smith Muhammad has the population of 2 billion behind him to seem legitimate.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Unlike Joseph Smith Muhammad has the population of 2 billion behind him to seem legitimate.
      give it a few generations. mormons have the highest birth rates in the US.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Not for long, the demographics of Mormonism are turbofricked.
        t. knower

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          how? They seem to have stable around 2.0 birth rates

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Actual participation rates (butts in pews on sundays) dropped massively starting in the 2000s and especially during the coof and haven't recovered, based on cell phone metadata-based surveys. The rate at which young members apostasize has been increasing since the same time and the retention rates for mormons born in the faith (i.e. those who remain believers through adulthood) have also plunged. Concurrent with this, wards and stakes have been closing and/or reorganizing and some ward positions have been cut because there aren't enough people to fill them outside deep mormon territory like SLC.
            What does this have to do with birth rates, you ask? Simple, once people leave the fold they no longer have the pressure to have tons of kids and many (though I can't say for sure if this is a majority, plurality, or vocal minority) will deliberately eschew children due to their change in beliefs. The overall growth rate for the church also dropped below its overall birth rate in 2022 or 2023 (iirc) meaning converts + births combined aren't enough for the church to grow anymore.
            Outside the US the situation is even worse, Western European mormons are an endangered species, the Samoans are nowhere near as successful of a mass conversion story as the mainstream flock would believe, and don't even ask about Asia or Eastern Europe.
            The hardcore Utah SLC valley types might be pumping out kids like no tomorrow, but that phenomenon doesn't apply to all mormons everywhere and might not even be true for much longer if the younger generations keep drifting away at faster and faster rates.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Western European mormons are an endangered species
            as a western european it feels quite unbelievable that these even exist, here mormonism looks so much like a scam and is so distinctively rural american that it's surreal anyone could believe in it
            >instinctively wrote 'fall for it' at first
            teebeehaych if you need a cu- alternative denomination then jehovah's witnesses seem much more smooth and convincing

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            By far the largest concentration of mormons in Europe was in Britain and even that seems to be imploding.
            In Scandinavia there was an ill-fated project known as the Swedish Rescue, in which top mormon leaders personally visited Sweden to address burning questions asked by the congregations there, questions which were driving a mass apostasy. You can read the transcripts and some commentary here:
            http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/swedish-rescue2.htm

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            When I read Jennette Curdy book they seemed to be average believers with Faith flourishing only when they are under hardships but if even mor(m)onism had fallen...well maybe we are really living in end times

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Utah can’t support Mormon birth rates anymore anyway, not without socialist housing/water policy and strong control of industry

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Utah can’t support Mormon birth rates anymore
            Yes it can, not that it matters as Mormon birthrates are below replacement.

            >not without socialist housing/water policy and strong control of industry
            The US already has this and has had this for approximately two-centuries.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The Mormons have been spreading out anyway. They're building enclaves in states like Florida, even buying out farms and ranches on top of building homes. Utah will always been symbolically important to Mormons but they don't have to be crammed in there anymore.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Only FLDS/Other polygamists birthrates are high, and they are inbred as frick. Small founding pop, mostly

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The FLDS didn't help their case by letting a tiny handful of geezers marry all the women which just puts more strain on the pool anyway

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    One of my favorite parts of the Mormon story was when Joseph Smith bought some Egyptian papyri and claimed that it was ancient writings of Abraham and Joseph that he was able to translate through Mormon magic, obviously expecting Egyptian texts would never be able to be translated for real.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith_Papyri

    When they were properly translated it was discovered that he was full of shit.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      How do Mormons possibly cope with this? Not only does it prove that part of their scripture was unarguably made up, it proves that Smith couldn't fricking read Egyptian so the rest must be bullshit too.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Mormonism is primarily dorky men and moronic women.
        Dorky low-T men cope hard as hell with lots of bullshit because being a Mormon guarantees you pussy for nothing.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Where do I sign up?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Be careful what you wish for. There is no deadlier trap than easy pussy; whatever form in takes.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Black folk will become whites in the afterlife
        >you and your wife/wives get to be gods with your own planet and have space sex to birth souls to inhabit it
        >the angel took the golden tablets back
        >Native Americans were israelites all along
        >magic underwear
        >the first version of the Book of Mormon was hidden/destroyed, so Smith read a revised version from a fricking hat
        I really don't get why my aunt and her sons had a Mormon phase

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          In all fairness to your aunt, they blatantly lie to converts about every one of these things.
          It's unbelievable the lack of shame they feel in doing this while wholeheartedly believing they are morally in the right.
          "Hypocrites" you could say.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            “Milk before meat” is what they told us to use so that the uninformed think we’re just any other Christian church

            >Are you a Christian? Awesome! Me too!
            >How much do you REALLY know about Jesus…?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I don't really get the problem here
          It's not any crazier than the other religions and the part of becoming gods and ruling your own personal planet sounds awesome as an afterlife

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >This carpenter could turn water into wine, walk and water, was the son of God and also God simultaneously, revived after being dead for three days and you celebrate his sacrifice by eating his literal blood and flesh every sunday (It's more complicated than that and I'm doing christcucks a favour).
          "OH MY GOD SO TRUE!!! WHAT A RATIONAL AND SENSE-MAKING RELIGION."
          >And angel appeared to an arabian Caravan Guide made him sow the moon back together after it split, told him polygamy is good, let him take 4 more wives than the rest, told everyone to pray toward a black rock.
          "SO MANY DEEP THEOLOGICAL TEACHINGS"
          >This golden guy with 6 fingers attained full enlightenment and became one with the universe, you need to reject the world and escape existence by means of extreme asceticism. Also concepts aren't real and this centuries dead tantric wizard communicates sacred texts to me.
          "Such a deep and rational eastern teaching"
          >God won't punish your for moving this on saturday if you tie this string all around town, also Nero was a israelite. A rabbi once beat god in a legal debate.
          "What a sophisticated tradition"
          >Yee haw you can have 3 wives, israelites went to america and when you die you become a god
          "HOW COULD ANYONE EVER BELIEVE THIS? THIS IS PREPOSTEROUS"

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Mor(m)ons

    Also read book written by Mormon girl and her mom was total nutcase which touched her breasts and pussy for "medical purposes" until she was 18 and kicked out her father out of house for random reasons like watching porn

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    In general religious leaders are those who fought against social injustice.
    Jesus fought against israelites.
    Mohammed fought against arabic oligarchies.
    Siddhartha fought against the caste system.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Jesus fought against israelites.
      sure
      >Siddhartha fought against the caste system.
      yeah
      >Mohammed fought against arabic oligarchies.
      debatable. he shook it up and created a new* oligarchy

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >In general religious leaders are those who fought against social injustice.
      Not even remotely true.
      >Jesus fought against israelites.
      No he didn't. He was a israelite himself. All his early followers were israelites.
      >Mohammed fought against arabic oligarchies.
      Muhammad destroyed all the small independent tribes and then forcefully united them into one kingdom with a massive religious oligarchy.
      >Siddhartha fought against the caste system.
      Once again not true. He embraced it and incorporated it into his religious system.

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because he was a conman, a shyster, and a sexual predator

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I left Mormonism when I learned Joey ordered his army to come rescue him, had a pistol smuggled into his prison, and shot two people when the mob dragged him outside

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Thinking of joining the Mormon church to get pussy, is it a good idea

    t. Easter european

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Thinking of joining the Mormon church to get pussy, is it a good idea
      >t. Easter european
      Is anyone here not an idiot aside from me? I guess not.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Free pussy is always a trap.
        There is no love in the Mormon Church.
        Robot-people who are insane. Catty, b***hy social club where you need to prepare to "fit in" in every aspect of your life.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Robot-people who are insane.
          This. I Lived with one in a shared rental unit without knowing that the only reason he agreed to share rent with me was so that he could convert me.
          Turns out he was raped by his dad, so he tried to leave the church. The whole family shunned him and denied him financial help or accommodation until he reluctantly joined again because the shunning made him severely depressed. That's Mormonism.
          He then got angry with me because I refused to convert.

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    he was too modern.

    claim you see God today and you're labeled a schizophrenic. do it 1000 years ago and you're a prophet.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      He did a lot more than claim he saw God.
      I recall a "seer stone" and "golden plates" which mysteriously weren't actually able to be viewed

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        He had twelve people sign that they said they saw it. Pretty compelling evidence if you ask me

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The majority reneged and said "we saw it with 'spiritual' eyes" and apostasized.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Wtf, I never heard about that post

            How can anyone believe this shit

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            to be fair to lay Mormons they didn't teach these things to them until the Internet brought it to light.
            Gen X and older Mormons mostly still don't know and don't want* to know (they've already made up their mind that "antimormons" are all liars).

  27. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Why is Joseph Smith seen as an illegitimate religious figure compared to people like Jesus, Muhammad, and Buddha?
    White American society (or perhaps a close second to English society) at the time was probably the most literate society in human history up until that point. His life is well documented even if information was not concentrated enough at the time for him to be exposed as a fraud to his followers instantly like he could be now if he reappeared today.

    We get to see the full view of him in context. However, Mormonism has incredible inertia from his congregations being high functioning White people that are encouraged to have many children.

  28. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I often wonder this. Why are religions formed somewhat in modern times often seen as illegitimate, cult-like or straight up scams. Like people really dislike religions which seem "man-made", say, this is the reason for why the Cult of Reason didn't flourish. The fictitious, metaphysical stories of a religion's formative years is crucial for its success.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Why are religions formed somewhat in modern times often seen as illegitimate, cult-like or straight up scam
      >Modern times
      You answered your own question kek. Ever wonder why miracles aren't a thing anymore? Why witch/sorcerer-hunting seems dumber and dumber? Why saints aren't a thing anymore either, aside from political brownie points (omg he died le martyr for our cause etc.)?
      Because with time, more and more evidence and circumstancial evidence is collected, so trying to claim holiness and similar godlike properties is increasingly difficult.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        They are still a thing. See Padre Pio.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        They are still a thing. See Padre Pio.

        see christopher nemelka aswell

        https://www.mrm.org/christopher-nemelka

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          his channel is here if anyone is interested in learning about his claims directly from him:

          https://www.youtube.com/@MarvelousWorkandaWonder

  29. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I like Mormonism, I actually think the theology is better than standard Christianity. Only issue is I could never ever pay tithing given how much money the church has ($150 billon or something?). It’s also a shame that it seems LDS and the RLDS seem to be heading towards downplaying their uniqueness

  30. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because people killed each other over Jesus and Mohammed and admitting they were frauds would kinda be in poor taste

  31. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Jesus, Muhammad, and Buddha
    None of those people actually existed.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      *tip*

  32. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Guys I found the instructions and how to get lost gospels that no one in the early church remotely pointed to

  33. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I don't know what's more cringe in this thread, The Incels or Fedoras....

    Either way y'all need to grow up.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      t. MIDF

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >If I insult them, they'll go away
      troonybrain

  34. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >he doesn't know about the blood tokens

  35. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    mohommad and bhudda are also illegitimate
    or
    joeseph smith is in like company with cowards and liars like bhudda and mohommad

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I dont think you understand; it's not "legitimacy" it's
      "did this preacher honestly believe in what he was preaching?"

  36. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  37. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Why is L. Ron Hubbard seen as an illegitimate religious figure compared to people like Joseph Smith, Jesus, Muhammad, and Buddha?

  38. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    He has a prior history as a conman and certain lies are documented, like the place names in his scriptures and the copied errors from the KJV, even though his source material was in "reformed Egyptian" predating the KJV by thousands of years.
    Jesus also didn't materially benefit like Smith.

  39. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >he doesn't know about Ensign Peak Holdings, blood atonement, the oath of vengeance, blood tokens, endowments before 1990, second annointing, Kolob, Asherah worship, the Jupiter talisman, Smith's 14 year old wives, Brigham's destroying angel, Ida Smith, the Salamander Letter, Adam-God doctrine, soaking, garments, sex abuse coverups by the church, the White Horse prophecy, the sure sign of the nail, the Mountain Meadows Massacre, the fate of the 12 witnesses, Jesus' wives, the curse or skin of blackness, Mormon beer, or the Masonic connection

  40. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    We actually know a lot more about Joseph and his successors than most other religious figures. Joseph's life story is actually a really fascinating and wild ride but I didn't leave it convinced he was a prophet. I do think he still earns the title of one of the most important Americans to ever live though.

  41. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Scientology is more believable than this

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Scientology actually suffered a similar fate Mormonism did. Joseph and L Ron were very creative and knew how to take ideas from many different places and meld them together into something new so they were constantly keeping the religion exciting by announcing new things. Brigham and Miscavige aren't capable of that so the religions stagnant in terms of new theology but both are iron fisted dictators who try to keep the religion rolling by promoting a certain orthodoxy.

  42. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    He's a heretic. Simple as.

  43. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    seems kind of suspicious that some dude came thousands of years after established religion just to say "hey god told me actually you're all supposed to let me frick your wives and also give me a percentage of everything you earn", doesn't it? and haven't the mormons themselves spent millions of dollars on archeological expeditions and such, trying to corroborate and prove his stories, only to find nothing?

    and as others have said, he's not a "mystical" figure, because he came after humans had started meticulously documenting their history, so there are real, accurate records of his life and it turns out he was a known liar, particularly about the fact that he was a polygamist and fricking other men's wives during a time when his cult was still gaining traction and such a thing would have turned most people against it.

  44. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Is it unbelievable that God would choose a criminal shitbag to be his prophet?

  45. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Muhammad, and Buddha
    Those are also illegitimate.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I hate religious pop-slop so much.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        You just hate Christ. You're not bothered by yoga or meditation, not that you know what it's from or what they're practicing or worshipping.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Some dead carpenter is of no concern to me. His extremely annoying worshippers are.
          I think Oh-so-clever Dawahtard memes are also annoying.
          >You're not bothered by yoga or meditation, not that you know what it's from or what they're practicing or worshipping.
          Why would I? They're basically secular practices in the western world save for a few orientophiles who actually know their stuff.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Buddhist here. No, atheists shit on Buddhism all the time, stop LARPing.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            To what degree? I don't even see a thread on IQfy even talking about Buddhism.

            Atheists are constantly whining about the truth of Islam (FNS), but they never criticize Christianity. Why do you think that is?

            It seems to be the complete reverse. I will eat my hat if I actually saw Western Media deny the supposed truth of Islam.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Dude there's a HUGE amount of atheism vs Islam content, you just don't bother looking for it because you want to seethe and cope about christhomosexualry.

            Not that I can blame you, atheists and pastors whining about Aisha for the gazillionth time is boring.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Atheists are constantly whining about the truth of Islam (FNS), but they never criticize Christianity. Why do you think that is?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Why do you think that is?
            The most dangerous group of Christians, are what? The Westboro Baptist Church? And what do they do? Hold up signs near others?
            Christians aren't a threat to people.
            Muslims? The radicals are, and the moderates make excuses for the radicals, to further their own interests.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Christ was cool, but the edifice built around him, and the people who claim him, are not

  46. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Why is Joseph Smith seen as an illegitimate religious figure compared to people like Jesus, Muhammad, and Buddha?

    But OP, all religious figures are illegitimate.

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