You can't actually know if you're saved under Calvinism

You can't actually know if you're saved under Calvinism

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The elect alone are given the Holy Spirit as a down payment of our salvation.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Calvinists are cessationists so the elect aren't identifiable with miraculous gifts

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        based knower, this is why the charismatic path is the only way

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This is a strawman of both cessationism and Calvinism. Cessationism doesn't mean the world has become atheist, and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit isn't a miracle in the sense fire from heaven is.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          So you admit that the Calvinistic elect are no different from normal people

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        God elects by merely giving certain people the opportunity to be saved through having sincere faith in Christ in the first place. If they lived and died a true believer of the faith, then salvation was already written for them from the start. Anyone who doesn't truly believe in the gospel of Christ, or even worst atheists and blasphemers, were already destined to remain as such for the rest of their lives, and thus were already damned to eternal hellfire since the beginning of all creation.
        Did you even read the doctrine of unconditional election?

        Not all Calvinists are cessationists though.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You still don't know if someone will be given final perseverance until they die. God can choose to give someone on an island faith and repentance as a gift right before death and nobody would know. But God could also not give the other hundreds of people on the island that faith.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >God can choose to give someone on an island faith and repentance as a gift right before death and nobody would know.
            >But God could also not give the other hundreds of people on the island that faith.
            Yes. And your point is?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            not that anon, but Paul continues to be relevant

            1 Corinthians 4

            3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

            4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

            5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            If one somehow miraculously obtains true faith in Christ right before they die, then that person was clearly destined for salvation despite having lived their whole life as a non-believer up to that point.
            It doesn't matter what I or anyone thinks of that person, as long as that person obtained salvation by faith alone through the grace of God. A human's superficial judgement toward someone isn't factor when it comes to God's unconditional election.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >God elects by merely giving certain people the opportunity to be saved through having sincere faith in Christ in the first place. If they lived and died a true believer of the faith, then salvation was already written for them from the start. Anyone who doesn't truly believe in the gospel of Christ, or even worst atheists and blasphemers, were already destined to remain as such for the rest of their lives, and thus were already damned to eternal hellfire since the beginning of all creation.
          >Did you even read the doctrine of unconditional election?
          Anon according to Calvin God gives some people false confidence that they're elect but then condemns them to hell because they were prideful in thinking they were saved during their lifetime.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >according to Calvin, God gives some people false confidence that they're elect but then condemns them to hell because they were prideful in thinking they were saved during their lifetime
            I don't see any issue with this.
            It's one thing to know that you're going to heaven due to God granting you the gift of salvation through faith alone, whilst still having a sense of humility about it (i.e. knowing that there could be even a slight, infinitesimal chance that you could go to hell, but to the devout believer that doesn't matter because your love for Christ is that great that you're still willing to have faith in him no matter what your outcome would be), and understanding that you still have to put in the effort to do good works and avoid sinful acts, despite already having been saved; but it's another if you're just so arrogant that you think you're entitled to end up in heaven all because you believe in the word of Christ, but yet have nothing else to show for it, and are still knowingly committing sins. It would be total lip service at that point.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >cessationists
        based understanders of the nature and purpose of the Christ

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You can’t that’s the point
    Also calvin isn't that distant from catholicism.
    It’s just hardcore calvin larper Black folk that make proudly make a meme out of him.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >You can’t that’s the point
      Calvin explicitly denied this, and one of the many things he criticized Rome for was assaulting the believer's conscience with doubt

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Shutup he didn’t, he said no one can ever know if he’s an elect or not.

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Assurance is stupid, a pointless distraction from more important things. People who are obsessed with knowing in this life how Jesus will judge them on the last day are missing the point.

    You should be focused on doing what Jesus tells you to do here and now, building his kingdom, being a good person in his example and helping others.

    If your fixation is on being certain that your reward in the next life is assured, you should reassess your priorities. Know that Christ is going to judge you righteously, that should be enough. Don't try and speculate on whether or not your neighbors are elect or not, that's dangerous and can lead you into harmful thought patterns. Jesus is judge, not you.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >If your fixation is on being certain that your reward in the next life is assured, you should reassess your priorities
      And you should know that if you believe in Christ, you have peace with God. That should be enough to settle anyone's disquiet over assurance.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Assurance is stupid, a pointless distraction from more important things.
      Anon it literally motivated Luther to start the whole Reformation

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Telling. Why did Luther have such a great need for his own assurance of salvation?

        Could he have had private doubts that bothered him profoundly? Could his theology be some kind of extended defense mechanism?

        Indeed, what at all makes knowing you're heaven bound so important to living a Christian life? It seems completely superfluous to me, unnecessary. Even if you could know for sure, would that change anything about what you're supposed to do for Jesus and his flock in this life? No, it wouldn't.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Even if you could know for sure, would that change anything about what you're supposed to do for Jesus and his flock in this life? No, it wouldn't.
          It clearly did for Luther because until he gained assurance he locked himself in a monastery doing penance 24/7 because he was trying to justify himself in accordance with Catholic works theology.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Maybe instead of worrying constantly about being deprived of his reward in heaven, he should have spent more time not causing a massive schism in the church and religious brother wars that would kill untold millions of Christians across the entire continent.

            You're still not explaining which part of "being absolutely certain you're going to heaven" makes you a better Christian. Or which part of it is necessary for Christian ethics or teachings.

            Because it seems to me like penance is part of Christian practice and has been since the beginning because it's in the bible, whereas "assurance" has absolutely nothing to add and exists entirely in your head for the sake of your own feefees.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            surely knowing your standing with the Lord, the person who will decide whether you spend an eternity in heaven or hell is of great importance to any Christian, if you think about it for more than 5 seconds you'll realize why Luther was so adamant about finding proper assurance in his relationship
            >wanting to know if you are eternally damned or not is feefees
            really? really try conceptualizing spending time in infinite anguish for a little while, then explain to yourself how you can be absolutely confident you won't end up there, careful though, it might make you protestant

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Because it seems to me like penance is part of Christian practice and has been since the beginning because it's in the bible, whereas "assurance" has absolutely nothing to add and exists entirely in your head for the sake of your own feefees.
            Anon he spent 24 hours praying for forgiveness then some rando showed up from Rome promising people could have their sins forgiven if just by donating to the Pope's renovation of St. Peters.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Assurance is stupid, a pointless distraction from more important things. People who are obsessed with knowing in this life how Jesus will judge them on the last day are missing the point.

          You should be focused on doing what Jesus tells you to do here and now, building his kingdom, being a good person in his example and helping others.

          If your fixation is on being certain that your reward in the next life is assured, you should reassess your priorities. Know that Christ is going to judge you righteously, that should be enough. Don't try and speculate on whether or not your neighbors are elect or not, that's dangerous and can lead you into harmful thought patterns. Jesus is judge, not you.

          giga based

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Said nobody ever? Read the Heidelberg catechism or the Canons of Dort or the Westminster documents instead of getting your theology from facebook/instagram/twatter/James white.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Thats the point

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You can't "know" that you're saved under Catholicism either. You just have to have faith in it and hope for it and make sure you go to confession and fulfill your penances before you die.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Why don't Christians today beg for God's mercy anymore? Now they all just assume they have it. Even Catholics are like this now.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They bless homosexuals and trannies in the churches so there is no reason for sinners to think they are in need of forgiveness. But the accuser will show them where they fell from the path because God's creation will not be mocked forever.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >You can't "know" that you're saved under Catholicism either. You just have to have faith in it and hope for it and make sure you go to confession and fulfill your penances before you die.
      You can know under Lutheranism and Anglicanism though that was Luther's motivation

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