"For even before Helen, the c**t was a most loathsome cause of war"
What did Horace mean by this?
"For even before Helen, the cunt was a most loathsome cause of war". What did Horace mean by this?
"For even before Helen, the c**t was a most loathsome cause of war"
What did Horace mean by this?
>men
>go to war
>actually, it's because I was horny
>women make me horny
>it's all women's fault
men need to finally decide if they're the superior gender that dominate women, or helpless little babies being manipulated by boobies.
Moid status: obliterated
Both, actually. Women were created by the Gods to mock men. We are superior to you physically and intellectually, but you still control us through our dicks.
>>it's all women's fault
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. You're just a tool of Gods and men.
if men are physically and intellectually superior, they should be able to resist temptation
Nah, it doesn't work like this. All you can ever do is resist, it's a purely negative response. You cannot use your physicality and intellect to erase horniness. Post-nut clarity is a thing for a reason.
Gays just channel their lust onto other men. They're just as horny.
>Gays just channel their lust onto other men. They're just as horny.
Speak for yourself
ok, homosexual
Oh noes not the f word
like you are able to stop being oppressed?
how are women supposed to stop being oppressed if we're physically and intellectually inferior to men?
>we're
But 4chinz told me there are no women on the interwebs
oops. ignore that
Look up OSP Red if you indeed are a foid on IQfy, I think you'll love her work
because those who think that also think women are superior by virtue of assuming men owe women
You’re not. Now go back to the kitchen and make me a sandwich.
>if men are physically
What do you mean "if" moron
>but you still control us through our dicks.
Gay people truly are superior
Sheesh, I read "your dicks". It's so over.
>Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
moron
Actually, those who are led by circumstance, instinct, desires, passions, "their dicks," etc. are less fully self-determining, thus less self governing, hence less fully human, hence less fully real as themselves. They are the effects of other causes.
The only way to be self-governing and self-determining is to have the rational part of the soul rule over the appetitive and spirited parts. Only the rational part of the soul can train and tame the other parts and only it coordinate them under a single aim and telos. You need Frankfurt's second order volitions: "to want to desire what one desires." For the desire of the rational part of the soul is to know what is true and what is truly good, not just what appears to be good/true or what is said by others to be good/true. We can always ask, "is this truly true?" or "is this really good?" (Moore) We can even seem to ask of all things without incoherence "but is it/why is it truly beautiful." This is why truth, goodness, and beauty were taken alongside unity as transcendental properties of being qua being.
Anyhow, if the desire to know the truly good, not just a simulacrum, but the good as relative good and good in itself, is what can make us more real (because it makes us more self-determining and thus ourselves), then it seems such a Good must be at least as real as we are when we are not mere effects of other causes but rather being exercising self-government. This is why Plato thinks there is something to the forms, which determine the experience of the intellect.
Anyhow, Plato doesn't think sex has much to do with this. We all know men who are just driven around by desire or emotions. So to we have examples of female saints who exemplify being ruled over by the rational part of the soul. This is why Plato's "first wave" is a sort of gender equality, because rationality sits above the merely physical because it alone can make a person free and thus themselves.
So, men shouldn't wine about the manipulations of women, but should rather strive to be free. This is what women should do too. I have a whole suitcase full of bearded wizard looking men of great wisdom who will back me up on this, and many great female saints and visionaries.
Recall, the most favored of all mankind was Mary, the Theotokos, the perfectly responsive mortal through which the Divine Logos became incarnate and came into the world, the womb from which emerged the "light of men." Mary's womb, which bears light into the darkness, is the ultimate solution to Plato's cave, which is sealed otherwise, a tomb. But even sealed it is still open to what is truly transcendent and without limit, begining, or end, the Logos.
High quality post. I think that the Cartesian sense of freedom is what we ought to strive for when we speak of striving to be free; freedom as clarity (which ends in justice or perfect order) rather than pure liberty (which ends in anarchy or perfect chaos).
Good point. Women hating rants forget that the greatest (non-divine) human being was a woman. If our goal is to nurture and bring forth the emergent and immanent Body of Christ, the Church, then Mary is the ultimate example of how this is done in perfect responsiveness and faith. The Magnificant is our model for response when called by the Divine.
>Women hating rants forget that the greatest (non-divine) human being was a woman.
The prostitute and adulterer, Mary? What a pathetic simp religion Catholicism is.
>adulterer
My mistake, infidel.
Rationalism is gay and lead to bullshit like logocentrism and industrialism.
Can't you figure it out? It isn't mysterious. Men are willing to fight over women. That's it.
You have it backwards, boy. When a man is a baby, all he needs do is cry and the breasts lactate for his pleasure, giant milky breasts come floating down to him from above, or tender hands raise him up to suckle. The breasts are at his command. He is their master. As a man, the pleasure of a soft bosom has to be won. The quest for breasts never ceases—even the husband has to coax them out of hiding. You're still a boy (or you're a woman and will never understand at all). Your quest has yet to begin.
>What's the deal with musicians? When you ask them to play some music they refuse, but when you want some quiet they won't stop playing.
This made Augustans shit and piss their pants.
A real "I can't see a thing, I'll open this one" moment
If you can't get the job done with penis alone then lick the clit.
Women were seen as objects as valuable as arable land/cows/metals. People always want more of what they have but in the ancient world you couldnt just go and travel to find an unsettled piece of land full of resources. To fight the neighbouring tribe for more arable land or more resources is easier and makes sense but dicky still is the stupidest reason out of them all. Doesn't mean it isn't worth it at all, just that other reasons are at least more respectable.
Finally, a good response.
I like talking about resources in the ancient world. Like how kings were just big cattle ranchers lmao.
I fricked up the wording a bit but i have a massive headache so it might seem a bit off.
Archaic Greece and West Asia is fascinating, agreed.
Satires (Sermones) at 1.2.70
I think it's more the idea that if a woman is unfaithful to you and runs off with another man it really isn't worth fighting over her. You are going after something that is defective.
A woman who doesn't run off is defended as self-defense. One who runs off though requires waging a war, but by running off she has already proved she isn't worth war. Helen's harlotry was always the big knock against her.
That too, but you gotta remember how Horace would've looked at it. Even if the rape of the Sabines didn't exactly go like described, the Romans and other ancients did have the notion that women were something you could steal just like you could steal land/cattle/metals. Hence why he emphasised the "even before Helen" part. It is just about fighting over pussy in general, not necessarily fighting over run-away pussy a la Helen of Troy.
numquam hoc dixit TAMEN
I read that Helen was worshipped as a goddess in Sparta. And then her ascension into godhood was depicted in Orestes by Euripides.
Can anyone tell me more about how Helen of Troy became a goddess to some Greeks?
Of all figures why her?
Putting all the shit for Helen is nuts
>goes to Troy because fell in love with Paris
>Paris dies
>she marries Paris's brother instead of going back to her husband
>Troy falls
>husband is about to kill her but seeing her naked causes him to fall back in love and spare her
>they head back
>but crash in Egypt
>Helen disappears into wind
>but Helen is also where they crashed
>surprise!
>Helen didn't run off with Paris she was in Egypt the whole time
>Hera, angry at not getting the gold apple, created a fake doppelganger of Helen
>the fake ran off with Paris and the real Helen stayed pure and faithful to her husband
>the entire Trojan War was to retrieve a fake copy of Helen
>the husband and wife return home
>get involved in the trial of their nephew killing Helen's sister for revenge of Agamemnon
>nephew tries to kill Helen to protect himself
>Apollo or some god stops him
>turns Helen into a goddess
>Helen goes off to be a god with the other Olympians
>that nephew goes on to marry Helen's daughter Hermione
Wtf lol, where can you read about this?
A lot of it gets depicted in the tragedy plays we have remaining. Try starting with The Trojan Women, Helen, Orestes and Andromache all four by Euripides.
Yea I never went further than the iliad and related shit and some plays for my course. Thanks anon, it sounds really wacky.
Well before you read Orestes I also recommend Aeschylus trilogy called the Oresteia. It is a good trilogy on Agamemnon, his wife and children.
Thinking the war started because of Helen is a pleb opinion. She is merely a subject, the same as the others.
>Because of her
No, just got peddled as the main reason for starting the war. It's just the ancient version of yellow journalism creating war support. "Those pesky Trojans spat in our face by stealing le heckin wife of our king. We must kill them!"
Bitches been whack since the drop