If god wants people to freely choose heaven and doesn't want them to go there by default, why would dead babies and aborted fetuses go to heaven?
If god wants people to freely choose heaven and doesn't want them to go there by default, why would dead babies and aborted fetuses go to heaven?
they get tested in the afterlife
Fair enough, the stance where some dead babies go to hell is much more consistent.
If heaven is the default, it would make more sense for god to simply make humans already in heaven where they cannot be tainted by sin.
this isnt explained everywhere the only thing we ca do here is argue opinions
i believe God make us in heaven and i believe we choose to be tested here, why are we here and not other people? i mean why isnt the apostle Paul here now with us and why arent we in the 1st century?
Sounds like a heterodox larp inspired by nipponese Isekai.
>the stance where some dead babies go to hell is much more consistent
explain your reasoning
Already did, but I can elaborate further. If god didn't make a heaven devoid of sin the default dwelling of all humans because he wants us to choose whether to be with him or not, it makes zero sense that all infants would go to heaven without making that choice. However, if all infants do make that choice, presumably because they haven't been tainted by living on this shitty planet, then god could've spawned all humans already in heaven and everyone would've chosen it. If the answer is that that's what he did with Adam and Eve, then there's no guarantee that those infants won't deft him like those two did.
>presumably because they haven't been tainted by living on this shitty planet
That's not the reason we are tested, we accepted to undergo this test before every single person was born. God already made a creation that cannot sin, but we foolishly wanted to be better. The location where the test happens is irrelevant.
>he did with Adam and Eve
They were intended for the earth, it has been their purpose before creation. Yes their disobedience removed them but they were forgiven. The people of heaven will be purified anyway.
>we accepted to undergo this test before every single person was born
Heterodox fanfiction. You're basically making up a new story where people get reincarnated until they reach the age of accountability before dying, lol.
I am not making anything up what the hell? Also everyone gets reincarnated before judgement day.
>some humans fail the test
we know this already
>I am not making anything up what the hell?
Then where did you get the idea that dead babies get tested later from?
>we know this already
So you agree with me that the stance that some dead babies go to hell is more consistent. Why are you arguing again?
>Then where did you get the idea that dead babies get tested later from?
This is the majority view of the scholars and they have their evidences for it
>Why are you arguing again?
You are implying that they just get tossed in hell for no reason
>This is the majority view of the scholars and they have their evidences for it
Which scholars? You got some examples?
>You are implying that they just get tossed in hell for no reason
I am not, that's just you imagining things. I am simply saying that some dead and aborted babies go to hell.
>Which scholars? You got some examples?
"That they will be tested in the Hereafter, and whoever obeys Allaah will enter Paradise, and whoever disobeys Him will enter Hell. This is the view of the majority of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, as transmitted by Abu’l-Hasan al-Ash’ari, and it is the opinion of al-Bayhaqi and many other researchers. It is also the opinion favoured by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah. He said that this is what is implied by the texts of Imaam Ahmad, and is the view regarded as most correct by al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer. He said: this view reconciles all the reports, and all the ahaadeeth quoted above support one another. Al-Tafseer, 3/31."
>I am simply saying that some dead and aborted babies go to hell
This is an attempt at an appeal to emotion then. All souls have the same chance
>That they will be tested in the Hereafter, and whoever obeys Allaah will enter Paradise, and whoever disobeys Him will enter Hell.
Should've specified that I'm talking to Christians, not Mozlems.
>This is an attempt at an appeal to emotion then. All souls have the same chance
It's not, it's just laying out the facts. Many Christians think all babies go to heaven, but that's an untenable view unless you're a universalist.
>but that's an untenable view unless you're a universalist
I sort of see where you are coming from. But beside that how would they deal with the original sin? The aborted baby is neither baptized nor does it believe Jesus died for its sin that Adam committed
Catholics have limbo, that's a workable solution.
It's far better than the alternative however these people didn't even have a chance unless there was a way for them to ascend maybe. However from what I am reading it seems that even people like Moses ended up there... so that kind of mechanism seems unlikely to exist
And in any case, you're not responding to my point. If the dead babies will get tested later, some of them will go to hell anyway.
who says the default isnt heaven
hell is for satan and his angels not for people
demonic image
did not read
St Augustine said unbaptized infants went to hell without suffering the temporal punishments for sin