Humanity came on top of Earth's life through its high cognition and great potential for tool manifacturing and usage.
Not restricted to the seas as cetaceans are, no longer restricted to trees as monkeys are, better all-purpose limbs than elephants, able to feed on all sort of sources of nourishment like pigs, repurposing the manoeuvrability of hands from grabbing tree branches to grabbing spears and such tools of our own making.
Social animals like ants and such colonial insects yet retaining our individual ego, a seemingly contradictiory mix which goes beyond just a cause of conflict, it becomes a source of great progress as our wills and ideas clash, refined by war, making our collective consciousness an ecosystem of minds in which selection occurs; mental evolution.
All of these are why we came to collectively reign supreme over this planet's life.
Yet... we are far from reaching our full potential, if we even have such a limit...
We are limited by many things, we made tools as a mean to surpass these limitations yet they do not erase them... once stripped of our tools, we are made helpless.
Thus the next logical step for our kind will be to integrate our tools into our being, becoming one with them thus losing our past limitations allowing us to reach new grounds, achieving instant self improvement toward perfection when faced with any ordeal, to be always adequate.
It shall become necessary for us to go beyond the borders of our planet and expand into the infinity of the expanse, beyond the solar system, beyond the galaxy, beyond the clusters, beyond the observable... this eternal quest to go beyond and flourish, this desire is the endless fuel of life thus she shall pursue such goals, to always be moving, to never stagnate, to never die.
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And to achieve that we shall need to go beyond our humanity.
To rewrite our genes and modify our body as our needs dictate, to become a perfect fusion of organic and mechanic, improving on one another. This is the next phase of humanity as the paragon of all Life.
What if our machine part takes over the organic part, maybe even erases it?
Could those machines that humanity would have become even be considered "living things"? What can tools even do without handlers to give them purpose?
There should be counter measures against such a scenario or any of the sort.
This is why our imagination is such a powerful capacity, we can imagine any scenario and think of how to best deal with them in anticipation of them ever occuring. We solve our mistakes before even making them.
Indeed, our core should remain organic or else we might lose ourself into our machines, quickly made directionless and doomed to a slow decay.
>We solve our mistakes before even making them.
What about global warming?
Many of our past predictions have been proven erroneous. Climate is hard to predict with all the factors involved.
One volcanic eruption is enough to change things up.
Climate change isn't really a threat to our species as long as we're ready to make a few major sacrifices.
People will die but those would mainly be people of the third world so whatever, people will have to go back to the tribalism of their ancestors lost to globalisation. "The survival of my clan above all else."
Species will go extinct but others will fill up whatever niches they had. You can make functioning ecosystems with just bacteries, moss, wienerroaches and rats.
Create better flesh. New flesh of biomechanical design or nanomechanical design. Gradually replace all your brain cells with artifical ones and grow beyond your evolutionary bounds. And beyond that you could link your analog mind with a exocortex neuronal outgrowth to create a hybrid mind of virtual and analog neurons until your brain has outgrown its crib.
You raise an interesting point. I can see how the next step is to "integrate our tools into our being" as you say. What are some authors with similar views?
The Martyrdom of Man - William Winwood Reade
Superintelligence - Nick Bostrom, I can recommend his essays in general : https://www.nickbostrom.com/ethics/genetic.html
The Age of Spiritual Machines - Ray Kurzweil
Eric K. Drexler, Engines of Creation: The Coming Era of Nanotechnology
Hans Moravec, Robot: Mere Machine to Transcendent Mind.
Superhuman - Anders Sandberg #
J. B. S. Haldane - Daedalus: Science and the Future
J. D. Bernal - The World, the Flesh and the Devil i
oh boy another utopian ideology i wonder if it will cause anything bad
Nah bro don't worry I'm sure this one will pan out ok.
now let me tell you why treating humanity like a spreadsheet is going to work this time.
> this time
How and when was "last time"?
Spread sheet is being used as an expression and the last time in this case were the attempts at communism, also some strands of fascism, and arguably the french revolution before them.
>How do you feel about people of the middle ages?
I would think of them like I would think of hunter gatherers, different and definitely less technologically advanced way of life (I do not subscribe to whig historian memes) but still a human.
>How about neanderthals?
Entirely different matter. Strange gray area I have not defined yet.
>That's how it would feel to those to come.
I don't doubt it.
Also, I'll just state this. While religions might just be mythology and folklore, the lessons they tell you are very real, such as the lessons about not playing god.
also schizophrenic disclosure.
My meds are not taken and I suspect at least one poster in this thread might be an AI.
> their lessons are very real
We must cut our foreskin, not eat shellfish and never boil a goat in its mother's milk?
Those were pretty useful in the context of palestinian goatherders, believe it or not. So if you for some reason were to find yourself in that situation, yes.
Maybe not the last one but that's just ritualistic addition to some otherwise utilitarian commandments, it comes both ways.
I know a communist who says the USSR wouldn't have fallen if they had had Microsoft Excel
Once heard some say that computerization is communisms steiners counterattack, and I completely agree.
Eugenic Wars when?
We already had a Eugenics Wars, it was called WW2
And the chosen people won
going beyond ourselves through technology still requires a good cultural and intellectual base. but we are much worse than before and arrogant enough to think otherwise.
There exist different types of transhumanist approaches. The medical is focused on intermediate solution and technologies. We can already genetically modify people, create new organs and implants. To further these technologies and to implent these improvement on humanity requires that transhumanists frame them according present attituted and yet leave open room to future developments.
Cosmic Transhumanism. One should not forget that the figure called an astronaut was an cyborg and that the cyborg was first thought to be a cosmic explorer. We will require radical technologies to progress beyond planetary bound and create new societies independent of earth. Step by step we will rise the ladder.
Faced with our limitations and powerlessness toward the elements, we imagined Gods and such as these beings of great power and control over all that goes beyond. We came to worship these images, acting as if they were part of this reality, pleading for them to share with us what we wished and yearned for.
But we were not static, we kept on progressing, our control over the elements was refined to the point where it can be said we surpassed the gods of old.
In fact, we were those gods all along, we were not made in their image, they were, they were an image of us, of a more refined version of ourselves lying beyond our current limitations yet somewhere we can reach.
As beings of Volition, we can bend this reality in order to fulfill our goals, this is what makes us "gods". We manifest our will through our limbs, our voice then through our tools and these, in turn, allow us to accomplish everything we so desire. All within the realm of possibility can be made through sufficient strength of will.
We are the maker of meaning, we assign purpose and create value. Thus all wisdom come from us experiencing our world. This renders metaphysics a pointless search for something that was within us all this time.
No soul, no supernatural, no immaterial... the elements of the world, all is manifested by the material and through the material, all sorts of particles, the vacuum between them and all the forces they exert, from gravity to electromagnetism.
The Ubermensch needs no God beyond himself.
Going beyond such an archaic mindset as Theism isn't simply Atheism, we shouldn't forget ourselves, the real "gods", thus we should embrace Egotheism, to acknowledge the self as god, we shall rise above all on our own Olympus, forming our own Pantheon as the rulers of our own Cosmos!
> archaic mindset of theism
>posts archaic argument to a defunct movement
Too bad christoids are too moronic to appreciate irony.
No thanks, I don't want to build another Tower of Babel just to become another npc in space with prosthetic limbs I don't even need.
Smart phones are already proof of how miserable technology makes people, which is why I never got one lol
Nobody unironically believes that all the parts of a mechanism can just spontaneously appear next to eachother and start working on it's own, that was before we had microscopes powerful enough to see DNA. Try again homie
> fedora
Rent free
> t. satan
> boogeyman
Evidence that you did not mentally evolve along the rest of us, civilized ones. You're below current standards, you have yet matured, childish.
Great thread.
>To rewrite our genes and modify our body as our needs dictate
Yes. I've been thinking about that for a couple of years. Gene editing using AI and simulations as guide is the only way to survive. Eugenics failed for political reasons, so now we must improve humanity through gene editing.
>fusion of organic and mechanic
I'm not sure about that, but I'd be interested in your views on the matter. I believe humans should remain fully organic. All modifications and improvements should be organic/genetic as well.
The only future that awaits you is eternal tourment in Hell, satanist!
I'm good with improving humans through gene editing but the whole egotheism thing is cringe. Full of hubris.
You will never be a god.
> you will never be a god
I already am
What if the potential of humanity has scarcely been tapped, and what we need is not to warp the vessels of our glory into strange and choking shapes, but to simply twist the environment to better suit our vessels outflow of potential? I think we don't need a transhumanist future, but a transterra future, where the iron chain linking all things together is man.
Only this time a man no longer shackled by the biological eve. A man emboldened and enriched by a new eve, One of boundless grace and intellect, a muse-wife sprung from man like Athena herself, but swiftly growing of her own to be something so much greater, boundless and encompassing. If Athena herself embodied the realm of Forms and All Things.
A man with all space's infinities to spread the seed of his creation.
I think it's apparent that we haven't tapped our potential, anon. We haven't even solved hunger and healthcare yet, even though we have all the technology and know-how we need. Perhaps your idea of colonizing the cosmos is the proper future of humanity, but we are not ready to get there. Also, transhumanism and transterra are not mutually exclusive ideas. I would argue that they compliment each other.
I see no point in tapping into transhumanism before we trully tap the potential of humanity. Without that any attempt at transhumanism would be innately corrupted and probably self serving of the not so wholesome interests of a select few.
The only thing safe for us to delve balls deep into at the moment is something our ancestors handed down to us in DNA, the ability to change our environment and seek inner understanding.
We don't even know what a gender is anymore or how to have a functioning family, and you want modern kooks to have transhumanism at their fingertips?
What you're describing would have been the proper and most reasonable course of action _before_ WW2. After WW2 we can't rely on the ability of humans to promote and seek out greatness.
In my view, modern humanity (especially the West) is deeply corrupt. As a result, the West is heading towards total collapse. The people who are advocating and promoting transgenderism, for example, will inevitably implode under the weight of their own degeneracy. A hedonistic denial of reality leads to weakness, corruption, and destruction. Transhumanism would only accelerate their destruction. I want those who are corrupt to accelerate their demise. Transhumanism would act as a catalyst, accelerating all that is good and destroying all that is bad.
Let me give you an example. Using gene editing technology, future humans can grow up to be smarter, happier, stronger, and less prone to sexual degeneracy. The gap between those who are degenerative and those who are superior would be too wide to ignore.
>After WW2 we can't rely on the ability of humans to promote and seek out greatness.
You're just seeing it through the modern lens, the overwhelming majority of our existence and reality is an illusion. All it'll take is one bad collapse to reset everything back to reality. Only now we're not sum net-junkies that take physical sustenance from some MetaVerse'tm.
> Transhumanism would only accelerate their destruction
Accelerationism, well carry on then. Personally I rather not have to pick up the degenerated ashes of a transhuman scumpile. Easy if behind all the hubris and the hubub we're all still humans trying to survive.
I don't hold your hope that transhumanism would manage to separate the wheat from the chaff. I think it's more likely that it'll strangle the wheat and make the chaff believe it's wheat.
I disagree, postergating out entrance into the stars to chase some autistic higher state of society that might not even be possible is stupid. And please do not just project your desires for the future into an imaginary civilization higher up in the kardashev scale. That is not an argument, that's just wishful thinking.
What if poverty, hunger and suffering are just immutable facets of life?
That you cannot remove, same for disease. Mental and physical.
I also agree the idea of gatekeeping the cosmos is moronic, society needs the space to be able to actually undergo social evolution. We're fit to explore space as we are right now today. Just give us the technology and we'll frick off, create paradises and absolute hellscapes and everything in between.
The most important thing is we're out there, doing it.
>What if poverty, hunger and suffering are just immutable facets of life?
That cannot be the case because poverty, hunger and other types of suffering have disproportionately characterized human societies through the centuries. For example, we might still have hunger in the world, but we don't have famines anymore. So, even though we didn't eradicate hunger, we have eradicated extreme hunger. The same can be said about poverty. This shows that almost all types of suffering exist in a spectrum. Ultimately, I agree with you that suffering/struggling is an immutable facet of life, as you said, but I disagree that _specific_ kinds of suffering are necessary parts of life.
A future, superior society will still have to suffer and struggle, but the suffering and struggling will be of a different kind. For example, a modern human has to struggle and suffer in a different way than his ancestors. Your ancestors had to worry about food, shelter, clean water, war, etc. You don't have to deal with any of those problems, but you are still suffering by depression, lack of meaning, etc. So, to recap, I agree that suffering and struggling are necessary, but that doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't eradicate specific types of suffering like hunger and poverty. It's just means that we must find new, productive ways of exploiting our need for suffering and using it for our benefit.
> we don't have famines anymore
Wrong, at least 3 are happening right now and there might be a global food crisis coming with ukraine. And even then you could argue that the problem has shifted in the west into something else but this plays into your point. Kind off.
>Ultimately, I agree with you that suffering/struggling is an immutable facet of life, as you said, but I disagree that _specific_ kinds of suffering are necessary parts of life.
I never said necessary, cancer is immutable but not necessary, life without cancer can exist, but cancer will keep popping up anyways.
>A future, superior society will still have to suffer and struggle, but the suffering and struggling will be of a different kind. For example, a modern human has to struggle and suffer in a different way than his ancestors.
I agree.
> hunger
Once synthetic food technology is advanced enough, there won't be any hunger.
All they will need is put in a molecule cartridge into a machine and it will print an healthy meal using inexpensive materials, taste and texture could be adjustable.
Perhaps most of us will not even keep a complete digestive system and deliver the nutrients directly into our blood system instead of the wasteful normal way. Perhaps we won't even have to discard bodywaste if we can recycle all of it. Nitrates, CO2 and dead blood cell compounds... even the warmth if we can collect it!
No longer should we farm, harvest or hunt. Those will be activities for the wealthy and eccentric.
>Once synthetic food technology is advanced enough, there won't be any hunger.
Not for lack of food, no.
>Perhaps most of us will not even keep a complete digestive system and deliver the nutrients directly into our blood system instead of the wasteful normal way. Perhaps we won't even have to discard bodywaste if we can recycle all of it. Nitrates, CO2 and dead blood cell compounds... even the warmth if we can collect it!
>No longer should we farm, harvest or hunt. Those will be activities for the wealthy and eccentric.
I respect your "optimism"
I am pessimistic in regards to what will happen if we choose inaction.
If we truly have the will to build a future for us and those to come after, even if things shall not go without any harship and complications, certainly a brighter future will await us.
I can evision it, our universe full of life! No matter how many billion years it will take, be it trillions or more, we shall have this vision be made true!
This is the kind of mentality that should be made into a widespread religion!
Not those pitiful fairy tales and their carrot & stick mindset polluting the minds of so many, be it theism or whatever scientology is supposed to be.
A religion of genuine hope, not for an imaginary reward after death but for a world manifested from our cumulative wills and efforts, our legacy passed down through countless generations!
Unfortunately, hell is real and you will go there.
Your misplacee hope will be made into despair for all of eternity, you devil worshiper
>I am pessimistic in regards to what will happen if we choose inaction.
You mean space travel I assume?
>If we truly have the will to build a future for us and those to come after, even if things shall not go without any harship and complications, certainly a brighter future will await us.
Who knows.
>I can evision it, our universe full of life! No matter how many billion years it will take, be it trillions or more, we shall have this vision be made true!
I appreciate your optimism.
>This is the kind of mentality that should be made into a widespread religion!
Not how it works, Auguste comte. But I see.
>Not those pitiful fairy tales and their carrot & stick mindset polluting the minds of so many, be it theism or whatever scientology is supposed to be.
Scientology is an interested and even impressive legal/economic structure. While other religions can vary.
>A religion of genuine hope, not for an imaginary reward after death but for a world manifested from our cumulative wills and efforts, our legacy passed down through countless generations!
I'm an atheist too but just because you have faith in god not existing doesn't mean its certain he doesn't most religions also have genuine hope for the future, even if that usually entails the end of times.
The question is why would you want to purpose this? Humans can and only ever have evolved through suffering. Suffering is what brought us to the modern day. If suffering is totally lost humans would and will stagnate. We desire suffering so much we create fake social issues to overcome something. I don’t see this panning out in a good direction.
It's only getting rid of useless suffering.
There will still be challenges, painful descisions and sacrifices to be made in life.
Suffering won't disappear just because we stop experiencing stomach ache and diarrhea.
You don't need to know the pain of having a limb ripped off to have a meaningful life.
I'm not advocating drug injections to make you calm and docile.
Numbing the mind would certainly be an issue. That's why I am against hedonism which I consider to be "suffering from pleasure".
> He thinks they won't take over and ruin it all
I just don’t see it working out. Humans should cultivate their own lives without the disturbances of technology. The more dependent you are on a system the worse off you are. There is no dependency you should ever participate in if you have no control. Giving yourself up to things like this is a slave mentality no matter how you frame it. Who’s going to provide these technologies and services to us? For free? Really? No one on this planet would let that happen. They would cause their own problems with whatever they have perfected simply to have more control over it. Humans are
Vile when they are put into a “system”
> "technology bad"
> he types on his smartphone
Technology that enslaves you. Allowing people to be fed and nurtured while being trained at their schools is domestication. The internet is an extremely valuable tool and without it we wouldn’t be able to learn as much as we can, now. If my smart phone gave me nutrition and social interaction it would enslave me. My point is, do you trust a conglomeration of men to have you, a literal serf, in their best interest? Can you point to an institution that is not exploiting another person? If the technology was inherently unregulated and obtainable to all without meddling, sure frick it.
The states protect us from corporations
They wouldn't be so corrupted if nepotism wasn't so widespread
> the states will
AHAHAHAHAHAH
Lobbies own the state
That's because of corruption, nepotism
Corruption rules America. The median net worth of any American politician is 1m USA. They are all bought and paid for, regardless by who. We can’t trust them to do something good for humanity of a Corp can just sit them down and say “hey bro we can just make you and three generations of your family into elites if you just help us get this law passed. Or you protect us from a law trying to be passed. Oh hey pal, yeah that’s 500,000 usd in donations for your campaign, we hate regulation btw 🙂
If america is rotten then it must be sanitized.
The way things are heading, it might happen sooner than expected.
Yeah supposedly we will hit a collapsing point by which time rural living will be the only surviving remnant of “American culture”. Everything born from the collapse will be equally bad if not far worse. All it takes is the wrong strong man to show the masses what a little action can do. It’s extremely dangerous and when people are in the herd mentality they often and easily ignore blame of themselves, since it’s easy to be caught up in the emotional frenzy of the masses
Even in our base human form we're enslaved to pain, fear, disease and death
>Milenniol "humor" and wiseness
Yeah... better luck next time
> healthcare anf hunger
Should we really be thinking of humanity globally?
Should we really care about the fate of the poor and third worlders? We don't really need them... If they were to disappear, it would even make things easier.
You need them due to the result of ww2. Most modern whites are useless, degenerative, weak, just pathetic. Some modern whites hate you and want to destroy you more than the Japanese or the Indians for example.
What I care about is humanity progressing, colonizing the planets, and creating the future human being. If white nationalism will get us there, so be it. But if internationalism is a better option, I don't mind. My starting point is not nationalism, it's supremacy, wherever it may happen to come from.
We just need to be harsher and tap in the education system from an early age.
The Chinese seem to be doing well. If things go their way, along with Russia, they will supass the west and reign over the world.
You wouldn't want that to happen? That's why we need to make a few sacrifices... most of which will be undesirables.
Woah, your soul sure is damned!
I don't think even Jesus will forgive you for this sin.
No I already have a phone backdoored by google and the government, why would I want to integrate a government kill switch into my own body.
I'm playing that game.
Gunther hermann is currently pissed I killed his girlfriend and I'm fricking terrified of what happens when he finds me.
>Closed system
Just keep your system on a intra level , idiot.
Against the blind chaos of nature, we propose the enlightened order of man. Against their hate, we propose hope; against their jealousy, we propose ability; against their fear, we propose growth. To search all possibilites, explore all inner and outer spheres, to deepen our knowledge and shape the comos. To progress our minds, our understanding.
The phenomenon of man is unique. After a billion years, blind evolution has brought forth the first animal capable of rational inquiry. In us, the universe has finally developed the ability to look back upon itself and transcend the limits of randomness. From this point onward, the fate of the universe will not be a matter of chance, but of conscious choice.
How arrogant
Mankind is nothing but livestock for higher beings to feed on. We should stay humble and plead for their mercy.
Read the bible moron
I have read all major texts of mythology including the various hebrew and greek books that form what you call "the Bible".
It holds together through nothing but an illusion of coherence.
Name one contradiction
If I can think of one your apologetics have a hard time making up excuses for, that would be the talking serpent.
Described as nothing but an animal in Genesis yet (seemingly) described as the Devil in Revelation.
>He doesn't know Seraphim were represented as serpents in the ANE.
The talking snake of Genesis is the ultimate pleb filter.
Genesis says it's only an animal
It was retconned by Jesus Christ
>I have read all major texts of mythology including the various hebrew and greek books that form what you call "the Bible".
jesus you sound like an enormous homosexual
This is what you atheists want us to look like.
Your gods are corporations run by the Devil that want to strip us of our soul and make us blind to the light of God.
You seek to take us out of Earth where New Jerusalem will be established, you seek to doom us to the eternal darkness of the cold space away from the bliss of God's warmth!!!
We shall resist!!!
There won't be any "New Jerusalem".
In a few billion years, Earth will be unhabitable due to the sun expanding as its fuel runs out, leaving only a large wasteland empty of life.
Our salvation, the salvation of all of Earth's life, lies in the stars.
This is a fact, with your kind at the lead, we would have no future but an impending doom as we await for a false promise said to have been made by a God, one that we made up.
Perhaps it would be preferable to all die in dignity
Enjoy your dystopia
> pic rel
Are these from Half Life 2?
Only the ignorant put a limit on knowledge. Technology is of man and man is holy. All that we create brings us closer to Point Omega. Knowledge stretches us beyond the Demiurge’s prison of air and stone.
> dick gets in the way
> remove dick
> can't reproduce
> die off
What a wonderful destiny
>Create better dick.
How about a genetically-engeenered immortal superhuman with cybernetic enhancements for anything the biological realm can't do and steroid glands to maintain maximal muscle strength?
We make trillions of them and send them in all directions of space where they will spread and thrive on far away planets, even galaxies.
> Individiality
Is a limitation, having to collectively come to an agreement for every decision make us slow and clunky.
If we were one mind, we wouldn't have to bother with any of this.
>Transhumanism
It’s a meme. Our tech isn’t all that advanced. We’ve been pretty stagnant for decades now. In when you look at human history, tech advancement isn’t really a drive. People are still using Neolithic farming techniques. There is no game changing tech coming down the pipe that isn’t mostly speculative.
Genetic engineering will be game changing
Spotted the morons who think their capeshit scifi homosexualry is realistic.
>tech reaching unprecedented levels of advancement?
Pfffft get real, transhumaBlack folk.
>an illiterate brown israelite executed in a backwater province created everything
SO TRUE!!!!!!!
Genetic engineering is mostly speculative. There are plenty of pop science articles on what some lab was able to do to some rats; elongate their lives, improve their memory, etc. But the vast majority of that research can’t be replicated or has no human implications.
That's what everyone said when vaccines were first invented.
Vaccines were introduced in the 18th century.
> being this short sighted
If everyone was like you, you'd be right.
But we're not all men of inaction
>We’ve been pretty stagnant for decades now
Only because the good guys lost WW2. America and Europe are too busy dealing with Blacks, latinos and other mulattos. Thus, their progress is slowed down significantly. That being said, there's still a lot of progress in tech.
>People are still using Neolithic farming techniques
Yes and no. Genetically modified organisms (rice, vegetables, wheat, etc) allows us to produce a lot more food than we otherwise good, while using much less water and land. Also, modern tractors allows us to almost automate the harvest. Moreover, hydroponic technology is looking very promising and it's being used to produce microgreens, lettuce, etc.
The first genetically engineered humans are now 4 years old. Their CCR5 modifiactions made them slightly smarter. Who knows what is happening at functional black clinics. Modern Cas9 or 12a techniques allow for the reliable modification of 10.000 allells.
>It shall become necessary for us to go beyond the borders of our planet and expand into the infinity of the expanse, beyond the solar system, beyond the galaxy, beyond the clusters, beyond the observable... this eternal quest to go beyond and flourish, this desire is the endless fuel of life thus she shall pursue such goals, to always be moving, to never stagnate, to never die.
...Beyond your mom's basement, homosexual
You're still in her womb, kid
Oos
I apprecite the effort post in this shitole of a board, I still oppose transhumanism, But I appreciate it.
Now, your argument about tools is moot because even if we integrated said tools within us they could still be rendered disfunctional. If you're talking about mechanical tools at least, if you are into biological modifications then I would argue that the result of those modifications is no longer human.
>It shall become necessary for us to go beyond the borders of our planet and expand into the infinity of the expanse, beyond the solar system, beyond the galaxy, beyond the clusters, beyond the observable... this eternal quest to go beyond and flourish, this desire is the endless fuel of life thus she shall pursue such goals, to always be moving, to never stagnate, to never die.
This does not requiere modifiying ourselves into human derived abominations and cyborgs. Your mentality is faustian civilization taken to its decadent extreme.
> they would still be rendered disfunctional
The same as any of our organs.
There are thing mechanic can accomplish that organic cannot and vice versa.
If we can merge them together, we would optain the straightness of the mechanic with the flexibility of the organic without any of the dissociations and clunkiness.
> no longer human
Yes indeed, we would transition into something better.
Currently, humans are hardly fit for large scale space exploration. Our life style is dependant of Earth's environment such as its gravity and daylight cycle, we can see how this change affects those that spend too much time in space.
But through continuously modifying ourselves, we can be made fit to any situations and no longer suffer the consequences of not being so.
> abominations
That's what we must be to our ape cousins, unable to acknowledge our greatness.
Humanity will be to what is the come what apes are to us.
Of course many will fear this change, they fear it since they do not understand it.
It won't be a smooth trasitioning.
>If we can merge them together, we would optain the straightness of the mechanic with the flexibility of the organic without any of the dissociations and clunkiness.
Reality is never that easy, no one knows what complications might arise.
>Yes indeed, we would transition into something better.
There is nothing better than humanity. Transcending it is bad. Because humanity is good and where is the logic ends. I will fully admit this is the monke brain talking rather than more logical parts.
>That's what we must be to our ape cousins, unable to acknowledge our greatness.
Chimpanzees are animals they cannot comprehend that we are better than them.
>Humanity will be to what is the come what apes are to us.
Doubt it. It's conceptually different.
very different I might add.
How so?
The machine abomination things can speak and think make theories, model how we work and think, like us, apes can't do that, maybe eventually they will be able to do it, but not now.
> complications
Are expected
> There is nothing better than humanity
That we are aware of currently, but it's being short sighted to pretend it will stay as such.
> bad
To who/what???
> good
At what?
That would imply a measurement of performance which would mean we can go beyond our current level, improve.
> chimpanzees are animals
So are we.
We might as well be seen as primitive fauna to what is to come from us, unable to fully comprehend whatever concerns they will develop.
Aren't we just oversized ants/termites with a bit more cognition?
They're basically us on a smaller scale.
Of course we have a lot more going on than some ego-lacking insects yet this idea that you are "not an animal" is simply your own arrogance and ignorance. What you think is what make us special really isn't.
>That we are aware of currently, but it's being short sighted to pretend it will stay as such.
I consider humanity the best that there is, because I am a part of it. Anything else is lower for some reason or another. It is because it just is. For simplicities sake. That's how I view it.
>To who/what???
Please don't be pedantic. But I mean bad as in “unpleasant, unattractive, unfavorable, spoiled, etc.,” Do not play these games, please. I can ask why until you run out of answers too.
>At what?
>That would imply a measurement of performance which would mean we can go beyond our current level, improve.
Again, please don't be a pedant, you know what I mean. But to clear it up in case you don't. I don't mean good as in a performance I mean it as in a measure of value, I mean good as in the bible passage (I'm an atheist but it illustrates it well enough) "God saw everything that He had made, and behold, it was very good"
>So are we.
Fair enough, I explained myself wrong, I meant it as in we are sophonts and they are not. While the theorical "improvement" would also be a sophont. Albeit one with vastly improved habilities. (Not intrinsically good, mind you)
>Aren't we just oversized ants/termites with a bit more cognition?
On that question my answer would be 50/50 similar in some regards, vastly different in others.
>They're basically us on a smaller scale.
Again 50/50 but yeah I kind of agree.
>Of course we have a lot more going on than some ego-lacking insects yet this idea that you are "not an animal" is simply your own arrogance and ignorance. What you think is what make us special really isn't.
I believe we are animals, but we are also sophonts, much more developed than any of the other contenders (the chimps, Elephants and dolphins you already mentioned, Who are close but not there yet)
I know we are animals, I can see it in our behavior, per example, saying someone has no sex as an insult.
How do you feel about people of the middle ages? They didn't know what you know or had the skills that you do.
Wouldn't you think of them as.... inferior?
How about neanderthals? So close yet so far from us.
Even so, they'd live lives close to what some isolated tribes are living. Those you already consider as "inferior" deep down, to us, we, civilized ones.
That's how it would feel to those to come.
>Transcending it is bad.
This is only so when you think of the homosexual sapiens as this sort of immanent entity. An idealistic vision that sees humanity as a hypostatized species of its biome when, we are simply one of the incommensurable forms of sentient life randomly engendered, to be a vessel that carries around our genes. There is no intrinsic nature to life forms, we as homosexual sapiens, just like our prehistoric ancestors, are just an ephemeral chapter in this endless vortex of biomolecular mutations. Life struggle is to save itself through the species, but not the species itself (the demise of many species was imperative to the human dawn). There is no "species" to be saved, because every life forms is just a cycle in this infinite swirling of adaptations. Since adaptability is quintessential to survival, life ended up evolving into sapience with this self-consciousness (the illusion of existing as something other than a parasite trapped within our neurons, the deceptive idea of having an essential individuality or a soul) being only an unwanted epiphenomenon of intelligence. Freedom is also nothing but a feeling, an emotional state as neuroscience already proved that our free-will doesn't exist (or even philosophers like Spinoza with his conscious stone example or as Schopenhauer says: "a man can do as he will, but not will as he will").
The lasting matter would only be fear from the unknown: the conservative attachment to the configuration of current sapient living experience. As Ford said: If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses. We can't appreciate precisely how life would be when experienced through a collective mind or through the lens of the synthesis of synthetic and organic life form but what we do know is about our limitations that caused so much misery for thousands of years without hope to break free from our congenital deficiencies.
Is human nature perfect? No. Therefore, improvements are to be welcomed.
Thanks you for your words brother!
I admire your willingness to engage with the many luddites that lurk here.
May your words and ideals touch their hearts and minds!
We will trascend our flaws and march towards progress!
How do you know it is the direction to take? Is it even possible? Why do you say it with such fervor? Why should we take you seriously?
In other words: proofs?
As mentioned here
this planet isn't going to host life forever and long lasting space exposure can have drastic consequences on our health.
If we wish to continue Earth's life, especially our kind's, after the planet itself would not be able to, we shall make ourselves fit for this type of change.
How possible is it? We're exploring that right now!
We have tools that allow us to rewrite DNA to a certain extent.
Cybernetics are starting to test implating chips into the brain.
While these are currently intended for medical purpose, once these technologies are perfected, it will open the door to a vast range of possibilities among them those which would greatly improve our life and even species.
What other path would you think of? Not caring and dying off?
Other things being equal humans predict the future through extrapolation, therefore the analysis of technological and social possibility allow for a transhumanist interpretation. Do such technology break natural law? If not then one must propose a unknown factor for its impossibility or accept its eventual existence. What can and must be questioned is the timescale, form and degree in which such technologies might arise and be developed in all its complexity. Mosst transhumanist dreams are broken by the heat of molecular interaction. Other technologies are already existent and only require refinment and time to show its techno-revolutionary effects.
Should have the world taken Konstantin Tsiolkovsky serious?
extremely based Faustianism
that sounds like what a Contolist would say, if you know what I mean
Planetoids may be no better than animals, but even vermin may do civilized things when properly studied and directed. Until we eliminate our few remaining chains to the hated soil, I will continue my reports; for an animal observed is an animal easily controlled.
He sounds more like the forefathers of the Hideazou.
Read Ellul.
Not sure of what to think about his whole "christian anarchy" thing he has going on but I do respect his call for change.
>once stripped of our tools, we are made helpless
How would putting tools in our body change this, stripped of those you are still just as helpless as before. Nothing fundamental changes
They'd be like organs, you don't lose your liver that often.
It's dumb to retrofit and to augment what we already have.
It'd be easier to figure out how to transfer our awareness to different bodies and tools as needed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
You'd only transfer a copy of your mind into something else, (You) would still be your body as you akways were.
> kill the old self
You'd be nothing but an usurper pretending to be someone else's, perhaps deluded to think so.
If you replaced every atom would you be the same awareness? Obviously, you believe there is a way to transfer it piece by piece.
I love the idea of humanity transcending, it would be an immeasurable loss of human flourishment if we didn't.
But the current silicon valley tech culture is anti-human. Instead of tools, they are building services. The smartest programmers on the planet are getting paid to serve ads and optimize screentime.
Our tech needs a better philosophy, or else humanity will become dependent on caretaker gods.
Well said. The shallow commodification of identities and the incapacitation of the individual ability to take part in discourse in favour of arbitary collective values waste and even destroy possibilites that would elevate humanity beyond its present state. I`m disgusted at this fanatic will to collapse and hope of an end of the world which one hears from nearly all political movements. People want to destroy the past or poison themselves with never-existent nostalgia and forget about the future to forever live in a present.
You may not like it but this is what peak efficiency looks like.
I don't which is why my plan if transhumanoids take over is to try to barricade myself in a rouge state with nukes and the hold the world hostage just so they leave me, and all other people who want to stay human alone.
Like communism, transhumanism can’t work unless every single human on earth is subject to it.
The thank god that won't happen.
It needs not
Normals will be considered lower caste and excluded from transhumanist societies, essentially becoming third worlders.
They will continue to do what normals do like... hitting rocks with sticks? Ahahah sorry, not to be normalcist or anything but it's hard to take them seriously.
While we will be doing serious stuff like exploring space and colonizing distant planets, they will continue their futilities on Earth as the sun is about to destroy them all.
> they will continue their futilities on Earth as the sun is about to destroy them all.
>About
Bruh its several fricking billion years into the future.
Our species has (physically speaking) being a thing for about a third of a million years. Humans have been intelelctually themselves for around a 5th of a 100,000 years. Of that fifth we've only had confirmed written civilization for a 4th of that.
We'll be gone by the time earth becomes uninhabitable.
Plus of course they will bring normal people to space, they requiere dependable drones controlling mobbers to keep certain unwieldy elements in check, they need jannissaries, bureaucrats, menials, they being the people with stakes at the space game, mostly because your little cabal of internetoids does not have a monopoly or even a stake (Unless somehow some billionaire is secretly within your specific community) on how human space development will play out. That's the playground of governments, billionaires, and international agencies.
You'd be surprised how fast time flies
We live around 3/4 of a century.
But I guess you are right.
kek.
>This is only so when you think of the homosexual sapiens as this sort of immanent entity.. An idealistic vision that sees humanity as a hypostatized species of its biome when, we are simply one of the incommensurable forms of sentient life randomly engendered, to be a vessel that carries around our genes.There is no intrinsic nature to life forms, we as homosexual sapiens, just like our prehistoric ancestors, are just an ephemeral chapter in this endless vortex of biomolecular mutations. Life struggle is to save itself through the species, but not the species itself (the demise of many species was imperative to the human dawn).here is no "species" to be saved, because every life forms is just a cycle in this infinite swirling of adaptations.
I guess
Since adaptability is quintessential to survival, life ended up evolving into sapience with this self-consciousness (the illusion of existing as something other than a parasite trapped within our neurons, the deceptive idea of having an essential individuality or a soul) being only an unwanted epiphenomenon of intelligence
Unwanted implies a conciousness that can want or not wamt anything other than food, water, pleasure, pain, sleep and reproduction. that for all we know didn't exist before us.
>(the illusion of existing as something other than a parasite trapped within our neurons, the deceptive idea of having an essential individuality or a soul)
I disagree one the illusion part, and also on the parasite part. And we also have an essential individuality, if not a soul, theres matters that could be called spiritual about this. Per example somethings very young children claim to remember details of "past lives" in a very exact manner, which they would not have a chance to know any rational way. (cont)
Of course you would scoff at this because of the many types of people in this world you are the one that thinks of transhumanism with an open mind but then closes it like a bulkhead when it comes to more mystical matters. I am an atheist, but I do have regretable tendencies to shit like this.
>The lasting matter would only be fear from the unknown: the conservative attachment to the configuration of current sapient living experience. As Ford said: If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.
Yes I am being conservative, I enjoy being human.
>We can't appreciate precisely how life would be when experienced through a collective mind or through the lens of the synthesis of synthetic and organic life form but what we do know is about our limitations that caused so much misery for thousands of years without hope to break free from our congenital deficiencies.
I mean beyond my disgust for transhumanism in general a collective mind is terrible and I'd rather have misery than give up my or anyone elses individuality. Which Is what I think you are suggesting, that and weird cyborg shit.
>Is human nature perfect? No. Therefore, improvements are to be welcomed.
The discourse around perfection is very contradictory, very strange, perfection isn't possible, but you should strive for it. It's confusing, I also don't really think anything else would be much of an improvement. But I am not extremely creative and I am also pessimistic.
A "collective mind" doesn't make any sense, something made of conflicting wills will never be optimal.
It would be more desirable to have a single, bigger mind than a bunch of them that wouls interfer with one another.
I may have confused a hive mind with a collective mind, still homosexual. I enjoy having privacy, even fi tis my own mind.
> luv me augmented body
> luv me synthetic food
> luv me spacecraft
> luv me A.I. overlords
> 'ate the normals(not normalcist just don't like them)
> 'ate farming(silly normal pass time)
> 'ate manual work(it's robot duty)
> 'ate democracy(it's for dumb dumbs and normals)
> simple as
No? You would just a organistion capable and willing to implament it. Less than 5 people could make it a reality or already did in some cases
I'd feel unsafe having dxposed organs like that
I could pierce your lungs with a sharp stick anon.
> when the boss has an obvious weak point
That's idiotic, why would we even look like that?
Not efficient enough
> no arms
Efficient at what?
Why do these kind of tech wanky opinions always come from people outside of STEM? Shut the frick up and read your Nick Lang or whatever the frick you like to read but please shut up about things you only know about superficially and realise your actual position as a wonky wanker. Go learn to solve double integrals or invert a binary tree but until then please shut the frick up you literal brainlet pseud.
see
How would you know OP & Co aren't from STEM?
Did you made this assumption just because this is IQfy?