Free will
Determinism
Fate of humanity and implication of an eternity of survival with singularity technology
(Roko’s basilisk?)
What are the implications of a deterministic universe
Where is free will developed in the course of evolution?
Just by believing in free will affects your behaviour than if you were not to.
Just more determinism?
Are we truly agents or are we simply observers? What was the purpose of observing and having the illusion of free will anyway if it just makes us sentient enough to suffer?
bro you're a monkey on an asteroid hurtling through deep space to god know's where
by the time you're even old enough to start questioning reality you will have lived most of your natural life span
nothing you ever do will be of significance on a cosmological scale
I thank you for your realist view but the first monkey with a thumb didn’t realise he was contributing to anything significant
I’m asking for any implication you can derive as to the way we should live think or strive towards. Again, I appreciate your stark view but the implication of it is that we could truly infest the universe one day with some sort of life or mechanical constructs
I think about what the Africans suffer through to live their meagre lives that amount to nothing, but one day they could inherit the earth or plague the solar system with their roach like tenacity
The question of why might be important in progressing our pursuits and dreams
So join me for a few minutes and tear down this obelisk of unknowing with me
I personally think the universe will be summed up in a nice little statement far in the future, “Möbius donut of conscious energy reaching absolution ad infinitum”.
Or something as cruel as demonic clowns that oversee the hallucinations of reality as some sort of punishment for this cycle of existence
I’m just saying, it could useful
It could be very useful
>I’m asking for any implication you can derive as to the way we should live think or strive towards.
Just do whatever makes you happy. There is no objective "should."
who cares
just flood your brain with dopamine until you die
I’m a psychopath taking antipsychotics
I don’t feel pleasure in the same capacity that I used to, almost nothing in fact
And I’ve found that humans can live for superegoistic ideals.
So
well not everybody is a psychopath
so
>Philosophy on a stem board.
Anyway.
You have free will. The whole moronic "we have no control over our decisions it's all a chemical process, bro" comes from the equally moronic almost religious assumption that our consciousness exist separately from that chemical process and is chained by it. Like they're a doll being forced to do things by strings.
But you are that chemical process. You are the strings. What are you if not your desires, impulses and ideas? Your opinions, the things you hate, love?
Imagine an entity with perfect idealistic free(from the hard determinist viewpoint). This entity would have to be influenced by nothing. Free from chemical influences, a literal spiritual will. How would an entity like go about choosing what to do? IT LITERALLY CAN'T. It values every decision equally. It can't even build it's own preferences because everything is equally good and bad. And don't say randomness because that's an outside factor.
Cut a doll free from it strings then what does it do? It just lies there.
That's right. Le hard determinist idealized free being is a vegetable, a fricking rock. You too can become free, just blow your brains out.
>You have free will
if you roll a rock down a hill, with enough mathematics and physics knowledge, you can determine exactly where it will end up
its the same with humans, except the amount of calculations required to determine where one will end up would be immense, but not infinite
with enough research in biology, psychology, and neuroscience, we could probably get pretty close to determining a individual's future actions
>if you roll a rock down a hill, with enough mathematics and physics knowledge, you can determine exactly where it will end up
>its the same with humans, except the amount of calculations required to determine where one will end up would be immense, but not infinite
>with enough research in biology, psychology, and neuroscience, we could probably get pretty close to determining a individual's future actions
Cool. Now point out how that's incompatible with free will.
free will and determinism are mutually exclusive
How? If I am able to do as I want why does it matter that it's predetermined? I'm a part of the calculation of what will happen, if I wanted something else (even though I never would) I would've made a different choice.
https://tv.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/94ac032d-bef5-4200-ba12-68c280edd97c
https://tv.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/3f5a13c7-34e0-4507-b850-d3e8df3f3861
>If I am able to do as I want why does it matter that it's predetermined?
That's not free will, just will.
Bingo.
No, it's impossible with humans because we can't time travel to the past and evaluate the non-possibility of an alternate choice. You might say this also applies to some electrical interaction, but with electricity, you have a very concrete model that captures all that is relevant deterministically to describe via this model. There is no indescribable actor/party, because it's a small, neat model.
By contrast, there is no model to describe how thoughts and thus decisions of will map onto physical constructs, not even in principle. And there never can be. It's the same way how you will never get a model to describe math in terms of literal, physical apples. It makes no sense.
So what can you do? You can just converge on a 99.9% stochastic evaluation of what the human almost certainly will do, and this leave non-determinists satisfied. I am a believer of free will and I am the first one to aggressively tell you how we are mainly mindless automata. Rather than detracting from, if you're familiar with math logic,. this accomplishes the opposite, by constraining what free will actually is, and what it is not.
>You have free will. The whole moronic "we have no control over our decisions it's all a chemical process, bro" comes from the equally moronic almost religious assumption that our consciousness exist separately from that chemical process and is chained by it. Like they're a doll being forced to do things by strings.
That's rather uncharitable. It is as important to understand people are not unbounded free agents, especially for the consequences of how we act with respect to others and ourselves, as it is to understand anything else about the world. It is how you can build habits, or expectations of behaviors, understand others, everything that is not merely good by coincidence to a person relies on being able to know in that sense.
If anything the rest of what you wrote applies most of all to people pushing the asinine idea of libertarian free will. Yet you begin by dismissing a crucial component necessary to understanding yourself, others, everything.
I don't understand your point. I'm not arguing that determinism isn't true, I'm arguing that "hard determinism" aka "free will cannot coexist with determinism" isn't true. I agree that we can be influenced by things, that humans will act predictably, however that doesn't negate the existence of free will.
>anything the rest of what you wrote applies most of all to people pushing the asinine idea of libertarian free will.
Correct. I'd shit on them as well. Compatibilism Is literally the only coherent position.
>I'm arguing that "hard determinism" aka "free will cannot coexist with determinism" isn't true.
Which is just sophistry. Calling determinism free will to feel better about it is just not understanding determinism.
>You have free will.
Free will is incoherent since it implies independent conscious deterministic control over your actions while your consciousness is either dependent on deterministic external factors or random factors. The only way you have free will is if you define free will to mean something other than what it typically means.
>But you are that chemical process
That occurs far below your conscious awareness, and is determined by external factors or is random. You're describing will or independence, but not free will.
>it's another neo-religion/sci-fi schizophrenia thread
I believe the current state of physics denies the deterministic universe; due to nothing less than uncertainty and chaos.
I think free will is just a human construct, and it does little to ponder it.
I do not believe it can be evidenced either way. If it can be it would have no impact, as you implied in one of the two possible scenarios. That is that we may determined to ponder determinism.
>Free will
This is merely a leftover term from western religious history. There is no guarantee that it has to make scientific sense and in fact it doesn't. The rest of your questions are also similarly meaningless.
> X is meaningless and doesn't make scientific sense.
This can be said about pretty much anything, and it doesn't signify anything apart from your refusal to engage with the question.
Probability, the past, the future, numbers, decisions, possibility are all pretty much primitive concepts that are impossible to define except in terms of other similar concepts, which doesn't reduce the complexity of anything.
The good faith way to engage is to take the concept at its face value, and try to investigate its consequences from the framework that it posits, and see where you end up. Otherwise just shut up.
>free will exists because my definition of free will says free will exists
Free will exists because the universe is undefined from a perspective outside of itself.
This is proof of actual free will...