>according to Anthony Beevor's book, less than 20% of Spanish people in 1930 attended mass
>Less than 5% in some northern regions
What made Spain a secular country so quickly?
Catholic church in Spain
>according to Anthony Beevor's book, less than 20% of Spanish people in 1930 attended mass
>Less than 5% in some northern regions
What made Spain a secular country so quickly?
The Church was an enemy of the people, its support of the military uprising and the Franco dictatorship that claimed so many victims
>The Church was an enemy of the people
Imagine being so bluepilled that you unironically believe this.
The church was loathed by a large swath of the population, christcuck. The popularly-elected Republic hated it so much for a reason. It was one of the largest and last vestiges of a stagnant, backwards Spanish state structure that had fallen wholly behind the rest of Europe, and for that reason it was widely hated. Angry mobs don’t burn down convents for no reason out of the blue. The church earned that hatred by pretending it was still the 1500s in the late 1930s. This is a painful and uncomfortable fact that you must swallow.
>Spaniards always follow the church closely, whether with a bible or a knife
>The popularly-elected Republic
Sounds like commie seethe to me, heretic.
Yeah that’s right, spew your ancient mystical cope-terms. This is why so many Spaniards grew to dispise the church that kept them impoverished and blind for centuries while the rest of Europe figured out how to seperate religion from state. All the worthless chanting israeliteel-hoarding nuns in Spain aren’t worth a single good Republican atheist cabinet minister
>This is why so many Spaniards grew to dispise the church that kept them impoverished and blind for centuries
Listen, I'm not going to sit here and pretend that the Right-Wing state mandated Catholicism is good. But, it was miles better to your communist "alternative." Any "republic" that refuses to arm her citizens and kills gunowners, is not a republic. See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casas_Viejas_incident
>Any "republic" that refuses to arm her citizens
Are you moronic LOL? The republic’s main early line of defense against the army uprising was civilian militias who were terrified at the notion of the army crushing what little social liberties they were allowed to taste and enforcing medieval mysticism at gunpoint again. Republican Spain was fricking full of militias, what “gun owner killing” are you blabbering about??
Those militias were also anti-Government, they only sided with the Republic because the alternative was the Falange and Monarchists kek
They sided with the government on paper
But anarchists (and trots) sabotaged the war effort constantly, refused to follow orders etc.
>Are you moronic LOL? The republic’s main early line of defense against the army uprising was civilian militias
The reason the Fascists were even able to get a foothold in major key cities was because the government refused to arm them until they had literally no choice but to. So please, continue ignoring my part about: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casas_Viejas_incident
>The reason the Fascists were even able to get a foothold in major key cities was because
the german condor legion transported them from North Africa.
>the fascists couldn't have been stopped, EVEN IF if there was an already armed population
Or if Britain and France had not signed the Non-Intervention Pact, but had instead actively supported the Spanish Republic both diplomatically and militarily, in fact in the way the West is currently doing with Ukraine.
>Spanish Republic
You keep referring to the communists as the "Spanish Republic."
But the "communists" were mainly Anarchists
>But the "communists" were mainly Anarchists
I count 4 communist groups and only one Anarchist group.
The CNT was by far the biggest group with 2.5 million members
>but had instead actively supported the Spanish Republic both diplomatically and militarily
Yes, because France, who was dealing with their own violent communists at the time, would've LOVED to assist one be created right on her border.
>the german condor legion transported them from North Africa.
They transported them to Northern Spain during the outbreak of the war? No? Craaaaaazy.
>terrified at the notion of the army crushing what little social liberties they were allowed to taste and enforcing medieval mysticism at gunpoint
Because enforcing atheism at gunpoint is inherently better? Cope harder, commie scum.
>Because enforcing atheism at gunpoint is inherently better
Damn right. Try to force me to believe in a talking snake seducing a prostitute, I blow your empty head off, chud. Gonna whine about it?
>Try to force me to believe in a talking snake
Try to force me to avoid the sabbath, I'll blow your empty head off.
The capitalist landowners would have loved to make you work on Sunday, yes.
I'm not gonna force you to abandon your pedophile hendonistic mysticism, but if you try to force it on others I'll put a .223 through your empty skull you fricking homosexual
Famous last words by the losers of the civil war
>Damn right.
And this why the Republicans lost, and why millions died in Russia and China.
Commies want you faithless, poor and suffocating under the boot of a despotic government.
Millions of communist died fighting for what they believe in,that's far better than believing in a talking snake,a pedophile priest and a israelite on a stick
>dying for a popitical ideology
NGMI
Yeah it is commie seeth
Why do reactionaries always perceive the Spanish Republic as communist? The anticlericalism? It was governed by social democrats and liberals mostly.
Because PSOE was associated to the ussr and they even end up giving the Moscow gold from Spain's gold reserve
The PCE was in the Comintern, the PSOE part of the Labour and Socialist International along with parties like the British Labour Party and German SPD. Not communist then or now.
"No communists" all you want but PSOE was still friends with communists and had direct ties to soviet communists, like Franco was friends with fascists and had ties to them. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and is close to ducks then it is a duck.
Franco was a fascist. If the PSOE was allied with them it was only because the USSR was the only state willing to support the Republic, Britain/France/USA used the deliberate policy of "non-intervention" and of course did nothing about German or Italian intervention.
>fascist
He wasn’t lol
Fascism is when the capitalists, landlords, and military stop caring about democratic rights and just outright torture and murder everyone opposed to their total domination of society. Frano did exactly what Mussolini and Hitler did in Italy and Germany - kill the "commies" and make life easy for Big Business.
>namegay
This take isnt even worth addressing
New flash, all make up
>muh democratic rights
The Spanish left was never about democracy. The institutional one wanted to get rid of right-wingers, Socialists had undergone a process of 'bolshevization' (according to Largo Caballero's own words) and Anarchists basically wanted to slaughter everything which looked kinda like a tenant or a member of the clergy. The right wasn't much more sympathetic THOUGH
The leader of PSOE was openly calling for an overthrow of the republic in order to install a socialist dictatorship since 1932. Not to mention that they already attempted a coup in 1933. You know next to nothing about the time period so kindly shut the frick up and lurk.
Calling for it and actually doing it are two different things. The German SPD also had a "revolution" and then immediately turned their guns on communists.
Did you miss the part where they openly attempted a coup? Fricking hell you really do not know a thing. Did you just come here to repeat your /misc/ left-right garbage? This isnt a ww2 thread, frick off.
Don't you mean 1934?
Yes, it was a coup against the results of the 1933 elections. I mixed it up with the revolt of december 1933, though that was also done by communists.
Still similar events.
The context is completely different, like pointed out
If OPs argument here is right
why did the same did not happen in Portugal?
liberals won the civil war in 1800s and curbed the church?
The population was not nearly as anti clerical in Portugal, also communism and radical socialism didn’t take root by the time of the first republic, which was still very anti clerical, but was opposed by the people on that point
>why did the same did not happen in Portugal?
Salazar was an actual genius
Salazar created the modern technocratic neoliberal state almost 60 years before it was ever attempted in the US and UK.
The republic was never elected. The was no referendum, there were no votes.
KWAB what a moron
The Second Spanish Republic won the 1936 election, which then led directly to civil war
What the frick
The popular front (all the lefties) narrowly (if at all, it's still diaputed) won that election against CEDA (christian and all right wing parties, including republicans and monarchists)
The second republic came around due to a municipal election wherein most of the cities got republican parties elected, the coomer king Alfonso XIII, got scared and fled to france (leaving the biggest porn collection in europe at the time behind) , making the country declare a republic and form a provisional government while a constitution was drafted
Besides, the civil war didn't start due to the elections but rather some murders by both sides
The republic was installed with no referendum or vote of any kind in 1931
What does 1936 have to do with anything?
In 1936 they became the elected government and saught to push through reforms which the rich and the clergy opposed, hence the military uprising
>In 1936 they became the elected government
there also were elections in 1931 and 1934
By 1936 the republic had already existed for 5 years prior. What point are you even trying to make?
You said the republic was elected and they weren't. There were "elections" during the republic, but it was never voted in as a system of government. 1936 is irrelevant.
You obviously have no idea about spanish history, there was already a second republic prior to 1936 lmao, what "reforms" are you talking about, left wingers literally assassinated right wing leaders, that's one of the legit reason for the start of the war, not the delusional "reforms" you are talking about
You obviously have no idea about spanish history
You obviously have no idea about spanish history
>Hijacking the votes
Righty overthrow commie government.
There was a 1% difference between the CEDA and Popular Front vote but the CEDA lost most of its seats as a result of the first past the post-esque voting laws. Also the monarchists won in ‘31 but the King left the country because the Republicans won the major urban centers and were begging to commit violent acts like the one in Jaca. There was nothing “democratic” or “popular” about the popular front and the second republic, it was constitutional change after constitutional change to keep the left in power
>for a reason
Yes, satanism (unironically)
As OP said, there's a reason why only 20% of Spanish people went to church in the early 20th century.
Catholicism isn't a democracy nor should it be.
Nobody said it was or should be, but that still makes it an enemy of the people. There's a reason the Church has always been supportive of authoritarian measures like gun control and restrictions on who is allowed to read the Bible, they want to centralize power under themselves and take it away from the common man.
The church didnt prevent people from reading the bible, merely interpreting it themselves. And taking into account what happened when one group began interpreting it themselves (protestantism and its 2000000 variations), Id say they were petty right on that one.
It was fricking illegal to translate the Bible into the vernacular so regular people could read it. The Catholic Church has always had a vested interest in maintaining as much control as possible, hence its support for banning books it doesn't like, gun control, restrictions on speech, and autocracy.
The catholic church taught latin to everyone who wished to be inducted in their orders, no matter where they came from or how much money they had. Thats about as good as it comes before the printing press.
Either way they were right in restricting the self-interpretation. Protestantism has been proven to be an abomination of a sect with about as much credibility as your average african animist
Litterall bullshit and lies spread by protestans, freemasons and israelites. I have in my CD memory a PDF copy of an early 18th Century officiall italian translation of the Bible, authorized by the Church
You COULDNT make an officiall translation by yourself and publish it before it got examined and authorized by the Church, sure. But it wasnt forbidden to translate it
>an early 18th Century officiall italian translation of the Bible
18th century you moron, well after the Protestants had already translated the Bible into the vernacular for everyone anyways.
he is right tho
oy vey, you haven't deposited your monthly tax-deductible donation to da church goy
/thread
Anon (
) is a homosexual
Christianity was legit in danger of dying out in the 19th and 29th centuries. It made a comeback with the post-WWII Great Awakening and explosion of Evangelical pastors like Billy Graham and apologists like CS Lewis.
But overall Trads tend to overestimate how religious everyone was in the past. Yes, some people in the past were VERY religious, like the Puritans or the Anabaptists. But on the frontiers far outside of cities there were very few churches.
I fear for the 2800’s according to anon’s post here
Do it again based Franco
Japan forgot to jointly with Franco.
Henry Buckley, arrived in 1929, just as the soft dictatorship of Miguel Primo de Rivera came to an end, and lived through the extraordinary eight-year life of Spain's second republic. As a practising Roman Catholic, he was immune to the Protestant-spread "black legends" about Spain. But he was so appalled by the country's reactionary church, which joined the army and landowners in fighting democracy, that he could not go to mass.
judeo bolshevism
More like the Catholic church being so balls to the wall moronic that they successfully alienated everyone long before the Bolshevik revolution
I think God (Espírito Santo) that I was born a PORTVBVLL everyday and not sp*nish
Spain is EXTREMELY degenerate. Try watching any TV series or movie that comes out of Spain. Their shit even make our degenerates blush in the US.
Do it again, General!
Do it again, General!
do it again, general!
Do it again, General!
Do it again, General!
ebin gamer move losing spain's gold from the americas to literal russian commies, castratti manlet
My brother in christ the communists gave the gold to other communists, what part is hard to understand?
"commies" according to you that is, were in chargbe before the war, they didn't give the gold to the russian cmmies there, then one castratti manlet chimped out, and the next thing you know is spain's gold from the americas is gone forever
read a book for once, jeez... This is the history board, after all
go ahead, tell me, I want to learn IQfytory from the super smart guys like you, lulz
PSOE and PCE sent 73% of the Spanish gold reserves to the USSR in order to buy equipment and support for the civil war. How dense are you? It has its own wikipedia page you dumbfrick
These numbers are not atypical of Catholicism. I think it was the council of trent that finally made a rule where you had to go to mass at least once a year.
Why was the north less religious? It’s the opposite in Portugal
>Why was the north less religious?
Dude might have been referring to Catalonia. Northwestern Spain had remained staunchly Catholic, including most of the Basque country.
I am legit unable to understand lefties ITT and IRL can accept that:
>the church had VERY limited influence in Spain
>the republican goverment being unable to control all factions in the army
>republicans themselves unable to control each other to the point of allowing terrorism on the opposition from anarchist and soviet groups inside Spain
>the monarchy holding few to no real power for decades at that time
and yet will still argue that Spain was thrown into war by a """reactionary conspiracy""" of sorts.
Maybe, just maybe, the people saw that returning to the old ways was better than to be shot without trial by rabbid commies for not being alligned with their specific brand of Mrxism...
>the monarchy holding few to no real power for decades at that time
I dont think thats relvant at all. The forces that did hold the country were hostile to any change bc the status quo was extremely beneficial to them.
>and yet will still argue that Spain was thrown into war by a """reactionary conspiracy""" of sorts.
I mean the church, military, and landowners were literally the biggest force behind the rights wing. And kept spain as long as it could in a backward shithole.
>the church had VERY limited influence in Spain
>owns alot of land
>owns the education system
>social services
>extremely integral into politics.
Yet most of the military sided with the republic in the war... It doesnt sound like you know that much about Spanish history if you think the church still owned any significant lands in the 1930s
>Yet most of the military sided with the republic in the war
If that's true the war would have been over in less than a year. It seems you don't know Spanish history.
Also so what? The military as an institution was the decision makers at the point of a gun. That doesn't translate to the popularity of their ideas.
>If
Its literally true. Why do you argue something you can look up in google?
The part of the army that mattered was in Africa. The most experienced, disciplined and armed. While the republic had the most in the mainland that doesn't mean much. They had to fill it out with inexperienced militia men. They also need to create an officer core from scratch. While the nationalist got 75,000 Italians to help them and German aviation.
Why would they need to fill out their ranks when they already had more men? That doesnt make sense at all
The only reason they didnt have officers if because they fired/imprisoned/killed most of them 1 month into the war.
Nothing you have said thus far is even remotely close to being true, apart from the Nationalists having more experienced men. Thats it. The republicans had more everything else in every category except aviation.
Not to mention that the republicans had better equipment in everything aside from aviation, to add to their superior manpower. If you dont believe me google that too.
Priests linked to much to landlords and other elites instead of defending the common people, in Latin America happened totally the different, priests supported the peasants and workers while the elites linked to angloid prottie evangelical trash, Bolsonaro, etc.
This thread proves that commies hate history not because it’s “reactionary” but because they don’t actually bother to learn it
It’s worth noting that priests in Catalonia and the and the basque region where often sympathetic to the seperatist revolutionaries and often gave shelter and care to wounded republican fighters, which sometimes meant francoist soldiers would execute them, something the church has not acknowledged to this day, that and the treatment of protostars by the state after the war shows Franco cared a little more about his own state than the church
In my opinion the republic was too radical to actually operate, there where no available and attractive center right parties or active social teaching philosophy in the clergy like what happened in France after the French Revolution, no attempt to calm the nerves of the other liberal democracies regarding their stance on capitalist production or market reform.
Cont
Many people say that the other European nations turned their back on the Spanish republic and allowed the victory of fascism, that they betrayed them in their hour of need and that they allowed ww2 to occur, but the truth is that republican spain did not have good diplomatic
The attempt to say the republicans represented liberalism is misleading in my opinion and it pisses me off that so much of pop culture has fallowed this narrative