This is all the Chinese ''''''history'''''' i know. Mostly from memes
>Pre-Qin
Medieval India tier.
>Qin.
"FRICK YOU. FOLLOW THE LAW."
>Warring states / Some boring dynasties.
This happened a bunch not going to mention all of them
>Tang.
Silk road, Chinese Cosmopolitanism, LGBT+, Literally took China until 1981 to break their grain harvest record
>Song.
"You WILL live in a city, You WILL use coinage, You WILL engage in mercantilism, You WILL work in a factory or a workshop until, You WILL eat the veggies, You WILL NOT engage in animal husbandry, You WILL N...Hey! Mongchud! 6 square feet! back o.-ACK"
>Yuan.
Tries to do Communism centuries before communism becomes a thing
>Ming
"PAY. THE. TAX. CHU...Hey! Jurchen! 6 SQUARE FE---ACK"
>Qing.
"The country will remain closed because...because it just will ok???"
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The period shortly after 3 kingdoms(Eastern Jin/Nanbeichao) was kino and mirros the Late Roman Empire with barbarian foederatis carving their own kingdoms, establishment of a knightly caste based on cataphracts. Rise of Buddhism and cosmopolitanism in China. The remnant Han state in the south with their own Constantinople (Jiankang) trying and fail to reconquer China. The story of Mulan originated in those times for instance. Lots of interesting archeological findings with distinct style as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_Li_Dan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_An_Jia
Pre-Qin was arguably the most dynamic period in Chinese history, with China going from the brutal and warlike, but trade-happy Shang to the proud feudal chariot warriors of the Zhou, to a billion tiny kingdoms, to massive kingdoms that devoted themselves completely to the calculus of a cruel war where honor had fled.
>Qing
I read the whole article that image comes from. Really interesting and well written.
I like the Song dynasty. Seems like the closest China ever got to be a developed civilization.
You literally forgot Han. Compared with the Qin dynasty, the Han is more like the cultural and political origin of "China". Complex bureaucracy, suppression of commerce, Confucianism, ethnic minority system similar to China today, etc.
Han is more like the cultural and political origin of "China"
Anyone who thinks that really doesn't know much about Han. It's presented as something like that because that's the understanding of what China looked like by the Song and Ming scholars talking about it (and composing shit about it).
Han was strongly Legalist and Taoist. Any semblance of meritocratic officials is but an illusion.
Shamans and shamanesses taking on groups of kids and purifying the cities.
Large mishmash of writing traditions spewing from every direction serving as the background for the first dictionary of weird scripts.
All art was strongly animalistic in motifs.
The primary sign of wealth being high towers, the higher the better (compare to the massive flat compounds of historic China...).
>Ethnic minority system similar to China today
Yeah, about as similar to the USSR-inspired cosmopolitanism as US is to Athenian democracy.
There are clear firsts for Han that would carry on for the rest of Chinese history but they are brutally overstated in favor of seeing it for what it was, just another building block, step on the road towards the China-China that is Song-Ming.
>Han was strongly Legalist
>Any semblance of meritocratic officials is but an illusion.
The idea of Chinese officialdom being people who were schooled in something. Took examinations with the best scores getting the best posts. Rule of nerds or bookworms or dogmatists or what-have-you.
None of that exists in Legalism nor Han society. People in power were birthed into power. They had no requirements for any formal education. And they could be just as moronic as any royal in Europe.
The legalist rule of law meant that everyone was subject to the penal law (civil law was invented in Wei of 3K, Han doesn't have such a concept), but even that law was much more lenient than "frick up and we'll kill you". Which is a fantasy promoted by Han but completely goes against all of the actual Qin (both pre and post-unification) laws we've been able to find.
Qin's "problem" was that it could give you an excuse to kill the aristocrats and Han had to make amends on that. It wasn't "aristocrats who aren't usable in their position".
>Anyone who thinks that really doesn't know much about Han. It's presented as something like that because that's the understanding of what China looked like by the Song and Ming scholars talking about it (and composing shit about it).
>Han was strongly Legalist and Taoist. Any semblance of meritocratic officials is but an illusion.
>Shamans and shamanesses taking on groups of kids and purifying the cities.
>Large mishmash of writing traditions spewing from every direction serving as the background for the first dictionary of weird scripts.
>All art was strongly animalistic in motifs.
>The primary sign of wealth being high towers, the higher the better (compare to the massive flat compounds of historic China...).
minority system similar to China today
>Yeah, about as similar to the USSR-inspired cosmopolitanism as US is to Athenian democracy.
>
>There are clear firsts for Han that would carry on for the rest of Chinese history but they are brutally overstated in favor of seeing it for what it was, just another building block, step on the road towards the China-China that is Song-Ming.
you can nitpick the Romans in the same way and say that Western civilization developed far far beyond their nasty brutish authoritarianism.
Qin was the most based dynasty. Do it again Qin Shi Huang!
Qin Shi Huang’s book burning meant China’s philosophical flourishing like the Greeks of the same time was lost and China was stuck with Confushitism for the rest of its history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Schools_of_Thought
and that's a good thing.
... except that Qin hated Confucius (and Mencius) and tried to get those books burned too.
It's not because of the burning that Confucius became dominant; it's despite that.
But it still eliminated many potential rival philosophies
Had Mohism become the prevailing philosophy the Chinks would be spaceBlack folk by now.
>Again, every large state now attacks small states and every large house molests small houses. The strong plunder the weak, the many oppress the few, the clever deceive the stupid and the honoured disdain the humble. And bandits and thieves rise all together and cannot be suppressed. But can the chaos in the world be put in order by striking the big bell, beating the sounding drum, playing the qin and the se, and blowing the yu and the sheng? Even I do not think it is possible. Therefore Mozi said : The levy of heavy taxes on the people to construct the big bell, the sounding drum, the qin and the se, and the yu and the sheng, is not at all helpful in the endeavour to procure the benefits of the world and destroy its calamities. Therefore Mozi said: To have music is wrong.
Sovlless
idk i say we give that "putting the chaos in order" plan another shot
t. yu sheng
No need. The Song was almost perfect for chinese standards, they just should've had a functioning military.
>No need. The Song was almost perfect for chinese standards, they just should've had a functioning military.
Couldn't trust 'em. Tragic.
This is a stupid post but it raises an important question that I'm sure's been raised plenty of times, I just haven't seen it. How does Mo's differ from Kong's ideas? They both seemed shy to the supernatural and imagination, which is very limiting toward the ambitions of spacefaring. Both seemed to have believed in Tian, but were wary of going down from it, or searching up from their positions, to make sense of the supernatural.
Wrong, Mohists held a belief in the supernatural, argued for its existence (shittily of course), and seethed against chadfucians holding rituals despite not being superstitious
Of course, where did I say they didn't? They were stilly shy from it, compared to Abrahamic religions, who utilized their mythology and imagination into greater results than China in the last half milennium.
I've talked to even Westernized Chinese and they can barely even hold a notion of God, much less believe in him, but the power of that kind of belief and zeal has an advantage the provincialism of Confucian thought never will.
To clarify, some seem to genuinely believe in God, but at a population rate much lower than in the West, even among people born into Christianity.
Interesting insight
my point was just that it is different from the confucians who thought the spiritual was mostly irrelevant
nor would I pin the blame on abrahamism since the muzzies had a conception of god and still achieved pretty much nothing
That's not true at all. The Turks developed just enough science and discipline that they nearly slowly conquered Europe. The whole reason the new world was discovered was because they were looking for alternative routes to access India's riches, since Islamic seamen and armies were wienerblocking their trade.
Mohism was very heavy on logic on rationality, approaching empiricism levels of autism about it
Why is Tang LGBT
Book burning was first planned by Xunzi and was the natural culmination of all Warring States political thought
I've heard that Qin before they conquered China weren't even considered chinese by the other chinese states?
They were on the periphery of China.
Back then the true true Chinks were thought to be those between the Yellow river and Yangtze, specifically the plains. The area called 中原, literally "China origin", because this is where it's thought Chinese civilization originated.
The Qin were from the far West, and although they were culturally Chinese they weren't from the OG area, so other states looked down on them. Same with the Chu (too southern) and the Yan (too Northern, lmao) This was made worse because they conquered two non-Chinese states (ba and shu) who comprised a huge part of their economy, ultimately acting as the jumping off point that let them conquer China, ironically.
Over time they've sinicized and homogenized everyone but initially Chinese culture was a tiny group between the two rivers. The Qin were Chinese, it's a bit like someone from New England considering a Californian a fake American, they obviously are, but perhaps not quite as legitimately.
I wonder what language other groups that lived there before they became chinese spoke. From what I've heard most of southern China spoke a language similar to vietnamese and there were lots of thai groups there. Did the people in the northern parts and middle parts of modern China speak another sinic or sino-tibetic language or a language from a totally different language group?
>They were on the periphery of China.
>Back then the true true Chinks were thought to be those between the Yellow river and Yangtze, specifically the plains. The area called 中原, literally "China origin", because this is where it's thought Chinese civilization originated.
>
>The Qin were from the far West, and although they were culturally Chinese they weren't from the OG area, so other states looked down on them. Same with the Chu (too southern) and the Yan (too Northern, lmao) This was made worse because they conquered two non-Chinese states (ba and shu) who comprised a huge part of their economy, ultimately acting as the jumping off point that let them conquer China, ironically.
>
>Over time they've sinicized and homogenized everyone but initially Chinese culture was a tiny group between the two rivers. The Qin were Chinese, it's a bit like someone from New England considering a Californian a fake American, they obviously are, but perhaps not quite as legitimately.
so basically Qin was Macedon if Alexander's empire had persisted and Greeked everyone in the Near East for 2000 years.
Macedon conquered foreign people, the Qin united culturally similar people into one state. They're like Prussia, initially a march on the frontier that united the German states
It was cope by other chinese states, the Qin nobles were Hua assigned a fiefdom on the periphery to guard against barbarians.
The Zhou themselves were possibly non-Chinese
Just like Macedonia. The Greek city-states did not consider the Macedonians to be Greeks, even though they fully adopted Greek culture. So did Qin. And coincidentally, they both ended up conquering Greece/China and are still worshipped by both countries as their own ancestor today.
And what's even more interesting is that the Spring and Autumn and the Warring States/Greek Golden Ages were almost simultaneous, and both were peaks in the development of philosophy in both civilizations.
Early Zhou dynasty was peak China, we were robbed of a decentralized and much more diverse China by the q*n dynasty. There's a reason why the Chinese never went past the hundred schools of thought.
The only two imperial dynasties which were genuinely good were the Tang and Song, all others were bad to a lesser or bigger degree.
lesser or greater, bigger or smaller
for me it's the xi
wang mang did nothing wrong
frick n*bles
>leaving out Han
seriously? did you lump them in with Qin? since Qin basically collapsed immediately and got replaced by Han who fulfilled their potential. it's actually pretty weird that the West derives the name China from the Qin instead of from the Han or Tang. I guess it's like how nobody calls Germany Deutchland, because frick them.
What would the world be like if Genghis just died / got killed before invading Song and they invented capitalism like 800 years early?
Genghis didn't invade Song.
What would happen if Song didn't invade the Mongols
A big part of why the Song fell to the mongols was because one of their last emperors, Duzong, was an hedonist who completely neglected administrative affairs and let the institutions decay without proper care and investment, including the military.
>The Song forces resisted fiercely, which resulted in a prolonged set of campaigns; however, the primary obstacles to the prosecution of their campaigns was unfamiliar terrain that was inhospitable to their horses, new diseases, and the need to wage naval battles, a form of warfare completely alien to the masters of the steppe. This combination resulted in one of the most difficult and prolonged wars of the Mongol conquests.[6] The Chinese offered the fiercest resistance among all the Mongols fought, the Mongols required every single advantage they could gain and "every military artifice known at that time" in order to win.
The Song could have repelled the mongols and history would have been different. But nothing can change the past.
>The Song could have "repelled" the Mongol
No one can stop the horde BVLL
Mongols literally lost against wannabe pajeets, it’s their fault for losing
The Islamic world would keep pace with the west due to no destruction of Baghdad. Same with China
Is the video pro or anti China?
>whatifalthis
no idea but it's going to be moronic
Bros, I love Chinese history so much.
You're not alone, my friend.
>shang - 'orthodox' chinese
>zhou - sinicised non chinese barbarians from the west
>qin - racially zhou but non sinicised
>han - non chinese southern barbarians neither related to shang nor qin/zhou ethnicly
>tang/song/ming - belong to the same racial origin as han
>yuan/qing - non chinese northern barbarians
if shang are the start point making them the orthodox then chinese dynasties ends there, there's no such thing as chinese dynasties after that
Tang ethnic is disrupted.
on the mother side which had no bearing on how they defined ethnic
you have no evidence of what haplogroup the ruling houses were
Yes we do you illiterate Black person, they were Q dominant. You might not be able to get it in your thick head, so this post is for lurkers who can easily google it.
Literally a single study in a more northern zhou site. Same study also showed that there were equal numbers of 03a (now O2a) and Q1a1 in the aristocracy. Interestingly most Qs were buried in a prostate position while all Os were positioned in a more dignified supine way. But certainly all the slaves were indigenous O.
So, O3 has completely displaced Q1a1 nowadays which means that ancient Qs weren't very successful in keeping their genes into posterity, or steppe Cs with mongols, hsienpei or manchus for that matter. Or simply they weren't the nobles or kings who each had 100 bastards.
My guess is that during the early zhou there was a sinic ruling class employing peripheral ennobled steppe peoples in the form of those carrying Q to overthrow the indigenous Shang, and they enslaved the bottom farmercucks because what were they gonna do.
Also, modern genetics also flies in the face of people who claim the Tang were paternally xianbei or that those had a large impact. They ruled for basically 3 centuries during a period of explosive population growth and extensive concubinage and yet the most likely xianbei haplo is barely present in chinks.
Yang Jian and Sui though? Entirely plausible and we'll never know.
Inb4
>prostate
Prostrate
they were buried in their prostates? like they had dirt in their ass? i don't get this graph
Is it implying black people (only thing I guess the letter "N" implies) are all gay? this is so fricking racists delete it
I know you're joking but for ESLs
Prostrate - lying face down
Supine - lying on back
This is moronic.
They're all the same haplogroup and the Chinese term for themselves is the huaren anyway.
>the Chinese term for themselves is the huaren anyway.
Vietnamese were huaren
Xianbei were huaren
Tang (the Warring state) were not huaren to Qin.
Etc.
It's basically "westerner". To a Japanese, a Turkish candy seller from Istanbul is a westerner. To Americans, a Pole is not a westerner. Huaren runs this perfect category that really says "us" for everyone and anywhere for most of Chinese history up to about Song or so.