Vocabulary isn't grammar
English grammar is based on Germanic and not Romance Languages
This is completely irrefutable and classifying languages on grammar alone would result in moronic shit like Japanese being a Sino-Tibetan Language since roughly 60% of its vocabulary comes from various stages and dialects of Chinese.
How many of those words are actually used OP? You can have all the Latin-based words you want but if none of them are commonly used across time then it's not much of a Latin language, is it?
>english
germanic >is
germanic >a
latin letter used as an english indefinite article >latin
latin >language
latin >and
germanic >i'm >germanic >tired
germanic >of
germanic >anglo-saxon
germanic >cope
latin >telling
germanic >me
germanic >it
germanic >isn't
germanic
>English is an Indo-European language and belongs to the West Germanic group of the Germanic languages.[18] Old English originated from a Germanic tribal and linguistic continuum along the Frisian North Sea coast, whose languages gradually evolved into the Anglic languages in the British Isles, and into the Frisian languages and Low German/Low Saxon on the continent.
British aren´t latins, at the most some welsh used to be latin under roman occupation but the english are a crowd of rapist pirates from Netherlands who occupied Britannia and still waiting for king Arthur reborn and kick them out of the islands.
French isnt even a Latin language. people who feel bad for Medlets falling into eternal irrelevancy pretend anything with latin influence is Latin.
arguably Spanish isnt even a Latin language.
Here's your proto-Latin
"ik oook ook"
hahahahhahhaa
go back to africa guido
What I'd like to know is how many of those Latin words are inherited vs. borrowed? Analyses of Romance etymology don't seem to take that into account often.
2 years ago
Anonymous
that's true, i'd guess most were inherited or bastardized since borrowed latin usually sounds very scientific or cultured
If you read a scientific paper then English does indeed look like the most revolting caricature of French you've ever seen. However, in literate it's common for a fifth or less of the text to be written in Romance words. The spirit of the tongue is still very much Germanic, albeit with a substantial French element. Most people do not use 95% of the foreign words in the language.
Easily half of the nouns/verbs/adjective are Romance, in any kind of text in English
And since they're the only three kinds of words that matter, it feels very noticeable
No one cares about "the" or "at", they may as well not be here
Standard >From Middle English standard, from Old French estandart (“gathering place, battle flag”), from Frankish *standahard
If you look further into it, a lot of French words in English are surprisingly Germanic
2 years ago
Anonymous
funnily enough, standard is also the German word for this
2 years ago
Anonymous
German is full of French words, especially when it comes to military stuff
2 years ago
Anonymous
German "Standard" comes from english though not french. The english got it from the french who in turn got it from the frankish language (a germanic language)..
Hello, Danishbro, nice to see you spreading the message, see this article
>You could at least make the argument that French has a significant influence on English
Yeah but a lot of the French loanwords into English themselves just come from Proto-Germanic through Frankish.
Something like 30% of Old French was Germanic in origin, and the percentage was even higher in Norman dialects of Old French which is what English was mainly influenced by. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_French_words_of_Germanic_origin_(A-B)
The Frankish impact on the Vulgar Latin spoken in Gaul is... truly staggering.
We can safely say that at least 1/3 of all the French loanwords into English were ultimately of Germanic origin (although I suspect it's a higher percentage because I imagine the early English likely consciously or subconsciously opted to borrow more similar words of shared Germanic origin from their French-speaking overlords.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_Latinates_of_Germanic_origin
And a more specific article.
In Europe probably Icelandic. Overall, not sure. Mandarin has a strong proclivity towards coining or calquing rather than borrowing but it does still have some loans. Formal Navajo is very puristic but apparently no one actually talks like that day to day.
As a side note, it would be easy enough to get a rough estimate by taking the sample list on the Wikipedia page for 'Internationalism (linguistics)', feeding it through Google Translate into all the languages it supports, and counting how many are the same.
I feel like the purer your language is, the more you would understand words. For example as an English speaker I constantly have to Google Greek or Latin root words to understand how a word got it’s name.
Relatively, though there are still plenty of compounds in Chinese you have to learn as units, especially old ones that were coined a long time ago and have shifted in meaning, or ones that are based on allusions to history or literature.
There are definitely some cringy LARPers but I think for most Anglishers it's just a fun conlanging project that may have some incidental uses.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nah, it's just fun to embiggen my wordstock and anglish can help with that
2 years ago
Anonymous
Life is unfair.
2 years ago
Anonymous
If you want to embiggen your wordstock with words people actually use or have used why not read literature? Not just modern literature- old literature too, back to the beginnings of English.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Why are you assuming i don't?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Just seems kind of redundant to turn to Anglish for that, then. But if you think it helps.
2 years ago
Anonymous
They use words that even older literature doesn't, it's fine to peruse through anglish for that purpose
2 years ago
Anonymous
But what's the benefit of embiggening your wordstock with words that people don't actually use?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Makes you look smrter and them feel dumbr so they'll go "man, maybe he knows what he talkin' 'bout"and then they'll use those words too
2 years ago
Anonymous
Wouldn't just making up words yourself serve as well for that purpose?
2 years ago
Anonymous
No, me use real words so me seem smertor for usimg synonyms of other words.
2 years ago
Anonymous
In reality, people will just think you're an autist for using goofy-sounding made-up words
>the more you would understand words
The specific meaning is often not the 'obvious' or 'direct' meaning.
Case in point,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barn_(unit)
Almost all Latin in English is just ripped directly from the language for legal, medical, and scientific vocabulary.
You could at least make the argument that French has a significant influence on English, but the direct Latin influence has never been anything more than English speakers being too lazy to come up with alternative terms.
>You could at least make the argument that French has a significant influence on English
Yeah but a lot of the French loanwords into English themselves just come from Proto-Germanic through Frankish.
Something like 30% of Old French was Germanic in origin, and the percentage was even higher in Norman dialects of Old French which is what English was mainly influenced by. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_French_words_of_Germanic_origin_(A-B)
>And I'm tired of Anglo-Saxon COPE telling me it isn't!!!
>And = German >I = German >Am = German >Tired = German >of = German >Anglo-Saxon = German >Cope = Probably Latin >Telling = German >me = German >it = German >is = German >not = German
English is a Germanic language; there can do no doubt about that. However, it is my personal belief that Latin didn't truly die out and that remained in use among the surviving Britons until it resurfaced after the Norman conquest.
I am not a linguist or a historian, I just refuse to believe that the Anglo-Saxons somehow thoroughly annihilated their conquered underlings. The English culture and language is thoroughly Romanized when you compare it to other Germans.
>The English culture and language is thoroughly Romanized when you compare it to other Germans.
Yeah and we know from comparative linguistics when those specific words from Romance languages were borrowed into English and it was almost all after the Norman conquest (although Old English itself was already 25% Latin loanwords due to Christian influence, similar to many other contemporary Germanic languages).
Please don't speak about subjects you have no education on, comparative linguistics is an amazing field and is truly rigorous.
>Then what happened to the Britons?
Largely displaced, and the ones who weren't were slowly absorbed and assimilated through close cultural contacts with Germanic peoples (most likely beginning as thralls).
Insular Celtic Y-DNA is only like 20-30% in England and Lowland Scotland, and some of that likely came with Germanic peoples themselves (L21 is around 5-10% in most Germanic regions).
You're talking about near complete extirpation of male lineages in most of the regions that became English-speaking in the Middle Ages.
You know Icelanders trace around 20-30% of their Y-DNA and 60-80% of their mtDNA to Insular Celtic populations from Ireland and Scotland, right?
Do you wonder what happened to the Gaels in Iceland? Everyone there speaks a Germanic language today and has a Germanic name.
Shouldn't be possible, right?
2 years ago
Anonymous
It was a long process, too, it would have happened over hundreds and hundreds of years. There would likely have been pockets of Brittonic-speaking peoples in England quite a long time after they fell to the Anglo-Saxons.
Slowly, over time, they would have eroded and eroded though, generation after generation it would have become harder and harder to preserve the communities as Brittonic men went to live and work and fight for the Kingdom of England.
2 years ago
Anonymous
west germanics are just celts speaking german
2 years ago
Anonymous
You're talking about autosomal. Autosomally it doesn't matter as they all descend from the same mix of peoples in the Bronze Age and overlap and overcluster.
The fact is the Y-DNA was extirpated upon Germanic invasions, hence you would have had mainly Germanic men breeding Celtic-speaking women, and the men would have ensured the women were assimilated as usually happens in such scenarios.
There's no such thing as a 'Celts speaking Germanic', idiotic fricking ape. These are ethnolinguistics terms.
Celts are people who speak Celtic languages. Germanics are people who speak Germanic languages.
They would never have existed as distinct peoples if they didn't end up speaking different languages, you fricking moron.
Your idiotic suggestion is tantamount to saying they're all just Indo-Europeans speaking Celtic.
God you're so fricking stupid.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Most autosomal studies tend to show the English and Scottish at around 30-40% Anglo-Saxon autosomal (not including Norse and Normans, which usually adds another 10-15%).
Even the Welsh are usually around 25-30% Anglo-Saxon autosomal inheritance.
I have no idea what plot points are being used here, but no serious, legitimate genetic study has suggested the Germanic invasions didn't leave an extensive Germanic autosomal genetic impact on the British Isles.
Ironically it didn't shift them much on PCAs or clustering graphs since the Insular 'Celtic' peoples of the British Isles were all so close genetically to Proto-Germanic peoples anyway.
The regions Germanic peoples conquered in the British Isles likely weren't mainly Latin-speaking, but Brittonic.
Romans didn't do that, they Romanized the elites and ruling castes to serve as puppetkings and sever them from the populations they ruled over in Rome's name, and largely left the underclasses to remain speaking their original tongues.
This would especially have been the case in provincial parts of the Empire like Britannia, where Roman influence was weakest and which wasn't a major priority for Rome whatsoever.
Gaulish was still widely spoken as late as the 6th century, and possibly a lot later, and Roman influence in Gaul was orders of magnitude greater than in Britain.
Language shifting masses of illiterate peasants with double digit IQs in a time before even institutionalized education, let alone mass media, would simply be impossible. It would be extremely difficult to even do that today, let alone in the time of the Roman Empire.
The only people who would have spoken Latin in the British Isles when Germanic migrations happened would have been Christian priests and missionaries and those descended from Roman colonists, so quite a small minority of the population (maybe 5-15% of the population at most).
Vocabulary isn't grammar
English grammar is based on Germanic and not Romance Languages
This is completely irrefutable and classifying languages on grammar alone would result in moronic shit like Japanese being a Sino-Tibetan Language since roughly 60% of its vocabulary comes from various stages and dialects of Chinese.
>On grammar alone
On vocabulary alone*
I had a brain fart because this shit is so fricking moronic it puts me into a temporarily comatose state
~~*grammar*~~
Elaborate.
This. OP is a brainlet, as is every cretin who shares his idiotic opinions.
>This is completely irrefutable
How? Didn't the grammars of both branches completely collapse?
What exactly is Germanic about English grammar.
Middle English? Where do they come from?
How many of those words are actually used OP? You can have all the Latin-based words you want but if none of them are commonly used across time then it's not much of a Latin language, is it?
>english
germanic
>is
germanic
>a
latin letter used as an english indefinite article
>latin
latin
>language
latin
>and
germanic
>i'm
>germanic
>tired
germanic
>of
germanic
>anglo-saxon
germanic
>cope
latin
>telling
germanic
>me
germanic
>it
germanic
>isn't
germanic
delet this
>no
germanic
>i
germanic
>will
germanic
>do
germanic
>no
germanic
>such
germanic
>thing
germanic
magnificent
NO NO NO ROMANCE BROS MAKE HIM STOP
Romance bros aren't shilling this meme
Frick off Dirk.
>cope is latin
LOL
>latin
>>cope
>latin
kek, you destroyed OP, anon.
Latinsisters.........
I am anglo saxon
Most Western European languages are Latin based, English is a blend of multiple European languages so it would be Latin based
That's not how linguistic classification works.
>English is an Indo-European language and belongs to the West Germanic group of the Germanic languages.[18] Old English originated from a Germanic tribal and linguistic continuum along the Frisian North Sea coast, whose languages gradually evolved into the Anglic languages in the British Isles, and into the Frisian languages and Low German/Low Saxon on the continent.
>english
Germanic
>is
Germanic
>a
Germanic
>latin
Latin
>language
Latin
>and
Germanic
>I’m
Germanic
>tired
Germanic
>of
Germanic
>pretending
Latin
>Its
Germanic
>not
Germanic
British aren´t latins, at the most some welsh used to be latin under roman occupation but the english are a crowd of rapist pirates from Netherlands who occupied Britannia and still waiting for king Arthur reborn and kick them out of the islands.
Why pretending to be a proud people anyway?
French isnt even a Latin language. people who feel bad for Medlets falling into eternal irrelevancy pretend anything with latin influence is Latin.
arguably Spanish isnt even a Latin language.
Here's your proto-Latin
"ik oook ook"
hahahahhahhaa
go back to africa guido
>arguably Spanish isnt even a Latin language.
Holy nordcuck cope
10% Gothic and Greek is an exaggeration
who the frick made that shitty excel pie chart
this is what wikipedia says, idk how trustworthy it is
there is no reason why greek origin words would be 10%
What I'd like to know is how many of those Latin words are inherited vs. borrowed? Analyses of Romance etymology don't seem to take that into account often.
that's true, i'd guess most were inherited or bastardized since borrowed latin usually sounds very scientific or cultured
>implying the moon landing was real and not just an amerimutt hoax
germanic - war
latin - culture
celtic - mythology
slavic - ?
uralic - ?
Switch Germanic and Celtic and youre correct.
If you read a scientific paper then English does indeed look like the most revolting caricature of French you've ever seen. However, in literate it's common for a fifth or less of the text to be written in Romance words. The spirit of the tongue is still very much Germanic, albeit with a substantial French element. Most people do not use 95% of the foreign words in the language.
Easily half of the nouns/verbs/adjective are Romance, in any kind of text in English
And since they're the only three kinds of words that matter, it feels very noticeable
No one cares about "the" or "at", they may as well not be here
>No one cares about "the" or "at", they may as well not be here
lol
A surprising of the most commonly used French words in English don't even come from Latin, but Frankish, "standard" is a good example.
Standard
>From Middle English standard, from Old French estandart (“gathering place, battle flag”), from Frankish *standahard
If you look further into it, a lot of French words in English are surprisingly Germanic
funnily enough, standard is also the German word for this
German is full of French words, especially when it comes to military stuff
German "Standard" comes from english though not french. The english got it from the french who in turn got it from the frankish language (a germanic language)..
This is a new level of cope, holy moly
It's true though, how is that cope lol?
Standard is a germanic word
Hello, Danishbro, nice to see you spreading the message, see this article
The Frankish impact on the Vulgar Latin spoken in Gaul is... truly staggering.
We can safely say that at least 1/3 of all the French loanwords into English were ultimately of Germanic origin (although I suspect it's a higher percentage because I imagine the early English likely consciously or subconsciously opted to borrow more similar words of shared Germanic origin from their French-speaking overlords.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_Latinates_of_Germanic_origin
And a more specific article.
Still west germanic language
Guys what is the “purest” language? Overall but also specifically in Europe?
In Europe probably Icelandic. Overall, not sure. Mandarin has a strong proclivity towards coining or calquing rather than borrowing but it does still have some loans. Formal Navajo is very puristic but apparently no one actually talks like that day to day.
As a side note, it would be easy enough to get a rough estimate by taking the sample list on the Wikipedia page for 'Internationalism (linguistics)', feeding it through Google Translate into all the languages it supports, and counting how many are the same.
I feel like the purer your language is, the more you would understand words. For example as an English speaker I constantly have to Google Greek or Latin root words to understand how a word got it’s name.
But for a pure language it would all be intuitive
Relatively, though there are still plenty of compounds in Chinese you have to learn as units, especially old ones that were coined a long time ago and have shifted in meaning, or ones that are based on allusions to history or literature.
You might find Anglish interesting.
Another cringe neopagan-tier LARP
muh tradishun
There are definitely some cringy LARPers but I think for most Anglishers it's just a fun conlanging project that may have some incidental uses.
Nah, it's just fun to embiggen my wordstock and anglish can help with that
Life is unfair.
If you want to embiggen your wordstock with words people actually use or have used why not read literature? Not just modern literature- old literature too, back to the beginnings of English.
Why are you assuming i don't?
Just seems kind of redundant to turn to Anglish for that, then. But if you think it helps.
They use words that even older literature doesn't, it's fine to peruse through anglish for that purpose
But what's the benefit of embiggening your wordstock with words that people don't actually use?
Makes you look smrter and them feel dumbr so they'll go "man, maybe he knows what he talkin' 'bout"and then they'll use those words too
Wouldn't just making up words yourself serve as well for that purpose?
No, me use real words so me seem smertor for usimg synonyms of other words.
In reality, people will just think you're an autist for using goofy-sounding made-up words
MORE WORDS MEAN BIG THINKER MEAN MOAR CLOUT
>the more you would understand words
The specific meaning is often not the 'obvious' or 'direct' meaning.
Case in point,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barn_(unit)
It's a French language.
Indeed. We were Romans and such.
Almost all Latin in English is just ripped directly from the language for legal, medical, and scientific vocabulary.
You could at least make the argument that French has a significant influence on English, but the direct Latin influence has never been anything more than English speakers being too lazy to come up with alternative terms.
>You could at least make the argument that French has a significant influence on English
Yeah but a lot of the French loanwords into English themselves just come from Proto-Germanic through Frankish.
Something like 30% of Old French was Germanic in origin, and the percentage was even higher in Norman dialects of Old French which is what English was mainly influenced by.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_French_words_of_Germanic_origin_(A-B)
>And I'm tired of Anglo-Saxon COPE telling me it isn't!!!
>And = German
>I = German
>Am = German
>Tired = German
>of = German
>Anglo-Saxon = German
>Cope = Probably Latin
>Telling = German
>me = German
>it = German
>is = German
>not = German
Welp!
English is a Germanic language; there can do no doubt about that. However, it is my personal belief that Latin didn't truly die out and that remained in use among the surviving Britons until it resurfaced after the Norman conquest.
I am not a linguist or a historian, I just refuse to believe that the Anglo-Saxons somehow thoroughly annihilated their conquered underlings. The English culture and language is thoroughly Romanized when you compare it to other Germans.
Yeah it was still used by the clergy and anyone who knew it went to the church
Well that's the rub: the Pope had to send missionaries to the Anglo-Saxons.
>The English culture and language is thoroughly Romanized when you compare it to other Germans.
Yeah and we know from comparative linguistics when those specific words from Romance languages were borrowed into English and it was almost all after the Norman conquest (although Old English itself was already 25% Latin loanwords due to Christian influence, similar to many other contemporary Germanic languages).
Please don't speak about subjects you have no education on, comparative linguistics is an amazing field and is truly rigorous.
Then what happened to the Britons?
>Then what happened to the Britons?
Largely displaced, and the ones who weren't were slowly absorbed and assimilated through close cultural contacts with Germanic peoples (most likely beginning as thralls).
Insular Celtic Y-DNA is only like 20-30% in England and Lowland Scotland, and some of that likely came with Germanic peoples themselves (L21 is around 5-10% in most Germanic regions).
You're talking about near complete extirpation of male lineages in most of the regions that became English-speaking in the Middle Ages.
You know Icelanders trace around 20-30% of their Y-DNA and 60-80% of their mtDNA to Insular Celtic populations from Ireland and Scotland, right?
Do you wonder what happened to the Gaels in Iceland? Everyone there speaks a Germanic language today and has a Germanic name.
Shouldn't be possible, right?
It was a long process, too, it would have happened over hundreds and hundreds of years. There would likely have been pockets of Brittonic-speaking peoples in England quite a long time after they fell to the Anglo-Saxons.
Slowly, over time, they would have eroded and eroded though, generation after generation it would have become harder and harder to preserve the communities as Brittonic men went to live and work and fight for the Kingdom of England.
west germanics are just celts speaking german
You're talking about autosomal. Autosomally it doesn't matter as they all descend from the same mix of peoples in the Bronze Age and overlap and overcluster.
The fact is the Y-DNA was extirpated upon Germanic invasions, hence you would have had mainly Germanic men breeding Celtic-speaking women, and the men would have ensured the women were assimilated as usually happens in such scenarios.
There's no such thing as a 'Celts speaking Germanic', idiotic fricking ape. These are ethnolinguistics terms.
Celts are people who speak Celtic languages. Germanics are people who speak Germanic languages.
They would never have existed as distinct peoples if they didn't end up speaking different languages, you fricking moron.
Your idiotic suggestion is tantamount to saying they're all just Indo-Europeans speaking Celtic.
God you're so fricking stupid.
Most autosomal studies tend to show the English and Scottish at around 30-40% Anglo-Saxon autosomal (not including Norse and Normans, which usually adds another 10-15%).
Even the Welsh are usually around 25-30% Anglo-Saxon autosomal inheritance.
I have no idea what plot points are being used here, but no serious, legitimate genetic study has suggested the Germanic invasions didn't leave an extensive Germanic autosomal genetic impact on the British Isles.
Ironically it didn't shift them much on PCAs or clustering graphs since the Insular 'Celtic' peoples of the British Isles were all so close genetically to Proto-Germanic peoples anyway.
what website is that?
The regions Germanic peoples conquered in the British Isles likely weren't mainly Latin-speaking, but Brittonic.
Romans didn't do that, they Romanized the elites and ruling castes to serve as puppetkings and sever them from the populations they ruled over in Rome's name, and largely left the underclasses to remain speaking their original tongues.
This would especially have been the case in provincial parts of the Empire like Britannia, where Roman influence was weakest and which wasn't a major priority for Rome whatsoever.
Gaulish was still widely spoken as late as the 6th century, and possibly a lot later, and Roman influence in Gaul was orders of magnitude greater than in Britain.
Language shifting masses of illiterate peasants with double digit IQs in a time before even institutionalized education, let alone mass media, would simply be impossible. It would be extremely difficult to even do that today, let alone in the time of the Roman Empire.
The only people who would have spoken Latin in the British Isles when Germanic migrations happened would have been Christian priests and missionaries and those descended from Roman colonists, so quite a small minority of the population (maybe 5-15% of the population at most).
>mfw people are talking about us yet again
The saddest thing is the person who made this thread is no doubt some weird, self-hating native English-speaker themselves.
Anglo Bvlls are the trve heirs of Imperivm Romanorvm, holding aloft the torch of civilization through the ages. A heavy burden, it must be done.
English is a mutt language basically.