—"Fantasy needs magic in it, but I try to control the magic very strictly. You can have too much magic in fantasy very easily, and then it overwhelms everything and you lose all sense of realism. And I try to keep the magic magical — something mysterious and dark and dangerous, and something never completely understood. I don’t want to go down the route of having magic schools and classes where, if you say these six words, something will reliably happen. Magic doesn’t work that way. Magic is playing with forces you don’t completely understand. And perhaps with beings or deities you don’t completely understand. It should have a sense of peril about it.”
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tldr YOU DON'T GET IT I'M SUPPOSED TO NOT KNOW HOW MAGIC IN MY WORLD WORKS
it's unironically kinda sick when people perform sacrifices or something and they're not even sure if it helped afterwards, but you can only play that card so many times in a row i guess
Yes. idk about too much magic, depends what you're going for, but he's completely right about it needing to be kept magical.
These magic systems things fail to be magical. Simply put. So they are not magic in the traditional sense. It's primarily gratuitous appeal to familiarity with videogame mechanics that almost always detracts from storytelling.
Within my own story, I do try to keep a separation between the magic that normal people do, and the more strange magic.
Anyone, with training, can toss a fireball, and so this is seen as completely normal, almost mundane.
But, when a character says some words and suddenly you aren't allowed to take aggressive actions anymore, you know that he's done actual genuine magic that cannot be explained by just breaking natural laws like gravity and thermodynamics.
They dont want you to understand the magic of democracy so to keep you shackled and in slavery.
NOOOOOO YOU'RE NOT USING MAGIC RIGHT, YOU DON'T GET TO CHOOSE HOW MUCH MAGIC IS USED IN YOUR BOOKS OR MOVIES, I'M THE ONE WHO DECIDES HOW MUCH MAGIC SHOULD BE USED, WHEN AND HOW, I AM SOME TYPE OF GATEKEEPER FOR MAGICIANS, YOU DON'T GET IT, IT HAS TO BE UNDERSTATED AND I'M THE ONLY ONE WHO KNOWS HOW THESE THINGS WORK NOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST WRITE A BOOK AND MAKE A MOVIE ABOUT MAGIC BEING USED ALL OF THE TIME NOOOOOOO
His quote is right. His first three books were really good. If he could have just kept that same quality and finished his series people would say unironically that he is better than Tolkien
He's 100% correct.
Harry Potter is trash, and so is every copy of it.
> people would say unironically that he is better than Tolkien
homosexuals who think that "OMG get it the story is... LE DARK" already say that, though.
I feel like most people think he messed up by now. Before the hbo show he was heralded as a modern fantasy legend. He was above everyone be miles. Now he’s turned out to be the butt of most jokes. Some people still may be huge fans but they’ve realized that the series won’t ever get a conclusion.
Harry Potter isn't trash, it's a book for kids. It's good at what it's supposed to be.
You're the type of person who says stuff like "hurr durr why didn't willy wonka get fricked up the ass by consumer protection and worker protection boards"
I like when the cast of Monty Python and the Holy Grail was arrested by authorities during the storm on Castle Aarrgh.
this guy seems to have a lot of rules. I suppose that if you are writing a cohesive collection of works it makes sense to have rules and limitations to ground yourself. the issue is that he seems to conflate the rules and limitations he set for himself as the only or the best set of rules, and as an extension his style to only right style and his tone the only good tone. if he took this too it's logical conclusion he could say that his books are perfect and the only good books. can't tell if this is narcissism or autism, probably both.
Unironically Mario Bros doesn't have this problem. Nothing is ever stated about how it works so no loss of mysticism. Like the only time magic is mentioned is in the instruction manuals. Even then it is used only by special individuals (Peach and Bowser), so it's not like it's any skill that can be passed on Still, even in RPGs where they are playable, the story doesn't revolve around them but Mario and Luigi who don't have the same kind. Even with the Magikoopa enemies or characters that appear their magic doesn't seem as significant as the royals.
That above though may be what some may call sorcery, but there is still a lot of magic in the setting. And this isn't marked as magic or alchemy or medicine much, it's just the reality of the world. Like how blocks float or there are clouds people can step in and even form a kingdom there.
Gotta respect the autism of someone who studies the magic system of fricking Mario bros
Magic is a black box.
—“How did that happen?”
Magicians inevitably put themselves into black boxes.
—“How did you do that? Are you a wizard?”
> I don’t want to go down the route of having magic schools and classes where, if you say these six words, something will reliably happen.
Fricking kek
Imagine how buttblasted hard magic system autists are from this
IQfy and /tg/ drones mostly
Brandon Sanderson magic systems are boring. Grrm is just so right about magic needing to be magical. Otherwise it just becomes science
I'd like to propose a new fallacy: the adjective fallacy.
>Where do magicians learn their magic, then? Is magic not a transferable skill?
>I try to keep the magic magical
write that down, WRITE THAT DOWN
So how should good magic work? i don't quite understand the mysterious dark magical thing, I've never read any fantasy besides Hobbit as a kid
>i don't quite understand the mysterious dark magical thing
That's the point. It is.... le incomprehensible!
There's no one way, magic can be many things. GRRM's approach here is just as valid as any other.
It should be like the Bible. A few instances of miracles, bestowed on man by a higher power, but not something that is normal or widespread.
Tolkien does magic more or less the same way. It is a way of looking at things. A feeling of mystery, wonder, horror, etc.
The elves don’t believe in (elven) magic. They’re too used to it. It’s just arts and crafts to them. Science. It is only seen as magic to men and Hobbits. Dwarves are seen somewhere in-between elves and men, and the elves refer to the Istari more or less the same way humans refer to them (“wizards”—Istari means “wise one”). The elves’ bar for magic is simply higher than it is for men. Meanwhile, the Maiar, who are one step above the elves on the spiritual/racial ladder, the same way elves are to men, send down five of their own, the Istari “wizards”, to act as guides to the lesser denizens of middle-earth.
Magic is a station. It is a hat to put on. The pointy hat.
In a similar vein, the black machines of Mordor are associated with black magic and sorcery and witchcraft, due to middle-earth being so unaccustomed to such infrastructural horrors.
Like work works: you have to learn, work, and train hard and long for it, otherwise it becomes sloppy work.
I think it should work like alchemy and as described in those medieval demonology books which teach how to summon them.
I'm only an amateur writer but here's my approach
>magic should be hard to explain and abstract in nature. no shooting fireballs from hands, no magic system, mostly stuff like conjuring illusions, torture, clairvoyance etc
>people who can conduct magic (wizards, sorcerers, mages, etc), are extremely rare in the world and somewhat of a legend amongst the smallfolk. those people are also never POV characters or seen more than once or twice per novel. Usually antagonists
>Magic is not really taught but "inherited" in some obscure way. There's no hogwarts
Ever play Cultist Simulator? That's more or less how it should work.
Depnds on preference.
I like magic systems where magic is a tool to convert, control and manipulate energy.
To do this manipulation, you have to use your lifeforce. You either convert your own lifeforce into say, a flame, or for example bundle sunrays to a small point to light something up. Usually, in most fantasy stories i read, you have to use words to do that, but i find this rather cringe.
Words are just used to focus your will. If you have a big enough imagination. it should be possible for the caster to do almost anything he desires, as he has a deep understanding of physics, chemistry and how matter and energy interact. And this is why most stories are set in medieval stages, where technology is far less advanced and replaced by magic.
Not a fan of magic as some inherent energy, personally. What if it’s completely separate from yourself? I prefer that.
In short, D&D and its consequences have been a disaster to the fantasy fiction scene? It all started from the day grognards and boomer geeks & nerds found out they could roll a sickly geek who dies in 2 shots and never manages to hit the "good" level range where wizards start to dominate. Once that became a fact, in classical autistic fashion, the geeks and nerds of that era started to lower the powercreep till we eventually got magic is everywhere bullshit, and then it infiltrated the fantasy.
If Old and New Testament was written in modern era we'd have Moses engaging a wizardly duel with Pharao himself, and both would cast firestorms, jedi lighting, levitate and probably even turn into super saiyans.
The issue is that lowest common denominator, the unwashed masses, enjoy this shit for some reason. And since we live in merchant era where money is god, well, shit is what you get.
>If Old and New Testament was written in modern era we'd have Moses engaging a wizardly duel with Pharao himself, and both would cast firestorms, jedi lighting, levitate and probably even turn into super saiyans.
I might actually take an interest in the Bible if this were the case.
>The Pleb reveals himself to confirm the argument
Exhibit A.
Go pray to your dead israelite on a stick, gay.
Fatherless antics
Read the Mahabharata (or a summarizd version). Every confrontation between characters is like this and somehow twice as insane.
You can’t claim to really understand literary themes and tradition if you haven’t read and understood the Bible.
That's moronic.
Is this exclusive to the Bible in your view? Would you say the same about the Bhagavad Gita? The Quran? The Eddas?
The bible is literally just capeshit retellings of the greek myths for semitoids
Nobody can truly understand the Bible, frickwit.
Moses literally did get into a magic duel with Pharaoh's court sorcerers though.
Quite true, though not in the way we would consider it to be a magic duel. It wasn't as flashy as this for example: https://youtu.be/J8W4Lm1nTWk?t=17
Magic isn’t superpowers. Capeshit has been a disaster on the human psyche. Even Alan Moore is tired of it.
Shut up, moron.
No.
This.
>even Alan Moore is tired of it
Especially this.
Black person, one of the characters literally uses magic. I don't give a frick if you want to spaz out about 'muh capeshit doesn't have magic' but in the context of the movie the character is magical. Alan Moore is responsible for half of the fricking popularity of superheroes in the first place, so who gives a frick what he thinks.
>If Old and New Testament was written in modern era we'd have Moses engaging a wizardly duel with Pharao himself, and both would cast firestorms, jedi lighting, levitate and probably even turn into super saiyans.
In an alternate universe where the Old and New Testaments were written in the modern era, the biblical narratives would likely take on a dramatically different tone, incorporating elements of contemporary popular culture such as wizards, Jedi, and superpowers.
Imagine Moses, a charismatic leader armed with a staff that crackles with mystical energy, facing off against Pharaoh, a formidable ruler with dark magic at his command. Instead of the plagues of frogs and locusts, they might summon torrents of firestorms and conjure lightning bolts, engaging in a wizardly duel that shakes the foundations of ancient Egypt.
As the battle rages on, both Moses and Pharaoh harness their powers to levitate above the battlefield, weaving through the air like superheroes locked in combat. With each clash of their supernatural abilities, the very fabric of reality seems to warp and twist around them.
And just when it seems that one of them has gained the upper hand, they tap into their inner strength and unleash a transformation akin to becoming super saiyans, their eyes ablaze with power as they transcend mortal limitations.
In this modern retelling of biblical events, the struggle between good and evil takes on a visually stunning and action-packed form, capturing the imaginations of audiences worldwide with its epic battles and larger-than-life characters.
cringe capeshit
>meaningless bussword
There's nothing wrong with having a fantasy world where magic is more omnipresent. I would also agree with taking a more subtle approach, but there isn't enough magic or wonder in his world and it just makes it a bit bland.
>Another Pleb reveals himself
Exhibit B.
I actually feel like there’s too much magic in westeros. I like the political stuff but didn’t like the zombie apocalypse subplot at all
t. Haven’t actually read the books and don’t plan on it
The zombie apocalypse was moronic imo. He should just focus on the political stuff.
You're right though, I too feel there's too much magic shit going on, with the zombie apocalypse being the worst because it's supposed to be the most important thing, yet it's horribly undeveloped.
I like that it was a mostly nonmagical world, but then dark magic basically returns just as everything is going to shit. George fricked up the others plotline though, ngl.
There is certainly magic present in Westeros. We have a girl who can control dragons, a woman who was revived from the dead, and a whole family that can possess direwolves. We know there is magic at work here, but we don't yet know the rules. The mystery comes from not knowing whether or not specific characters claiming to possess magic are legitimate or just hoaxers. There is a sense of ambiguity to magic or gods in the setting that makes readers wonder if certain characters are as powerful as they claim to be. I think the deciding factor is how GRRM answers this question by the end of the series. Mystery is fine, but readers are going to want conclusive answers by book 7.
For example: does the high sparrow actually have a divine connection or is he just manipulating the beliefs of the common folk?
>We have a girl who can control dragons
Does she really though? Dragons are unpredictable beasts.
>a whole family that can possess direwolves
I was under the impression that it needs to be awakened. Robb never does it despite being the head of an army. Sansa likely never will. Arya could only do it during a moment of need. Bran lost the use of his legs, and it awakened in him due to the sacrifice.
Even though Robb doesn't warg into his direwolf him and Greywind have a clearly mystical connection. Greywind seems to have some sort of prescience too, guiding Robb to a goatpath in the westerlands so that he can ambush Kevin Lannister's army's, and attempting to warn Robb of the Frey's betrayal before the Red Wedding happens.
Vance literally did magic as science and he was still much more mystic about it than either the homosexual fatass or the homosexual mormon.
That's because the magic is antiquated despite being capable of so much. Like savages in a post-apocalyptic world poking at the devices of the ancients.
Keyed
…a bit like Borges?
> the problem with *FANTASY* is that there isn't enough *REALISM*
- morons
His stuff boring though.
>creates a demonic blood baby that kills people (possibly twice)
>never mentions it again
Great job, buddy. Feels almost real.
He really never had any idea where the frick he was going, did he?
How would you design good magic in a video game?
tl;dr? read malazan for mystery in magic AND published books!
>malazan for mystery in magic
Warrens were well explained imo
But Malazan is still better than asoiaf it even does the PoV gimmick better it's just not as le grimdark.
Black Company has magic out the wazoo, le grimdark and is better than fatfrick
Malazan sucks
Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up, she was shitting brown water. The more she drank the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew.
I once jerked off to the mental fantasy of an obese Danerys pooping her bed.
I do appreciate that his books present magic in that ambiguous way. If I recall correctly, Melisandre's magic doesn't have definitive proof of being legitimate at this point in the books. We know magic exists because of warging, Stone Lady, or the Faceless men but we never see blatant spellcasting on screen. It leaves a sense of mystery to it. It isn't necessary, but for the purposes of his storytelling it leaves an undeniable intrigue.
The HBO show's sacrifice of Stannis' daughter worked well because the viewer didn't know if it would actually accomplish anything. For all we knew, it was just hysteria and mysticism with no basis in the world that was established.
>If I recall correctly, Melisandre's magic doesn't have definitive proof of being legitimate
No magic does. Melisandre fools herself as much as she fools her followers, she’s just on a higher step on the ladder of ignorance. Magic is just another form of religion. The truth is not required, as they defeats the purpose of faith. You don’t ask a magician for their secrets, so you? Magic is a magician in its own right, and is simultaneously a total butthole.
I believe it’s also implied that the Valyrians played the part of gods, similar to the greenseers. Glass candles. You either send prophecy, or receive it.
>as they
as that*
>so you
do you*
(Forgive me, I’m phoneposting on the toilet at work)
Informative. Thanks.
The shadow baby assassin seemed pretty legit, didn't it?
Just a very precise queef
>Melisandre's magic doesn't have definitive proof of being legitimate at this point in the books.
She reveals in her POV that most of her *fire* magic is smoke and mirrors. She is able to see the future in the flames but she's not very good at it, especially compared to another Red Priest in book 5. That said, at the wall she says that her fire magic is very powerful. Westeros, especially the southern half, seems to be a magical dead-zone compared to the Wall/Beyond the Wall and Essos.
Her shadow binding is legit but the price is that it has stripped Stannis of a lot of his vitality, he's skinnier now than pre-shadow baby and there's a lot of chapters talking about his eyes being sunken/etc.
>I don’t want to go down the route of having magic schools and classes where, if you say these six words, something will reliably happen.
Isn’t this literally Elden Ring though?
uhh... don't think about that.
Vidya ain't books, friend.
He probably realized a game -requires- consistent button mashing, so he settled for making the magic being dangerous, and nebulous, which it is. *
*glintstone is a contagious cancer from the stars that slowly crystallizes the body and cosmically erases the ego
*staring into frenzied yellow flames has your eyes melt out of their sockets, or burst violently, and some are eaten…
*staring into angry red flames has you turn mad, to the point of piercing your eyes with thorns for blood magic
*eating the hearts of dragons has you eventually transform agonizingly into a wyrm, forever belly crawling
*scarlet rot is a flesh eating contagion that, for some reason, seems to attract insane sorcerers and bug people
*godskin influence turns villages into dancing orgies of human flesh skinners
*bestial incants are taught by a beast man who may or may not rip you apart
*etc
Blindness in-general is a theme in both game (Elden Ring) and books (ASoIaF).
Game mechanics also don't mesh with background lore/fluff very well, so you have to juggle the two a bit.
The only game medium that can truly fix this issue, I think, would be the horror game genre, where you interact with the environment -circumstantially-
Sorcerers snorted powdered glintstone but this practice was made illegal by the Carians.
>forever belly crawling
I could have sworn they stood upright…
>—"Fantasy needs magic in it, but I try to control the magic very strictly. You can have too much magic in fantasy very easily, and then it overwhelms everything and you lose all sense of realism.
Does anyone have a list of all the times Tywin pulled blatant sorcery out of his ass just to frick somebody over in a way he had no way of accomplishing otherwise.
Does he use magic?
Considering that in his backstory alone he summons an army from nowhere, repeatedly teleports vast distances before people can react, constructs a trebuchet best compared to a nuclear weapon in effectiveness [destroying a giant ass G.R.R.M keep in one fricking shot after being built inside of literal hours on the spot] and managed to basically cause a small scale biblical flood by diverting a river inside of again hours, said river he summoned from his ass like the several thousand teleporting super engineer soldiers he found, that was able to erase yet another of G.R.R.M's megacastles and then flood an entire giant mine complex inside of again hours..
look it'd make more sense at least.
nerd
that's called plot armour homie
Everything this man says is correct, but for some reason it absolutely annihilates the buttholes of this website.
Hijacking this thread for a recommendation of a novel that has almost no realism
No one?
I had to put down China Mieville's Perdido Street Station because he just kept throwing shit at the wall without resolving anything. It felt gratuitous, but perhaps not wholly unrealistic. You might see it differently.
The Communist Manifesto
lmao this scene always makes me kek. literal santa just showing up and handing children weapons as a deus ex machina. so moronic its based as all hell
It is legitimately cool, isn't it? I feel like to properly write fantasy, or sci-fi, or any fiction that steps outside the bounds of normality, you've got to have a sense of whimsy. Lewis had it, Tolkien had it, hell, Borges had it. I'm not sure GRRM has any whimsy to him. A kind of fancy, a sense of fun. Even if you're writing "serious" fantastical fiction you must have that element if you're going to carry it over to the audience, I think.
>magic works when the plot needs it to work
>and when I say so, it just doesn't, ok???
what a moron
>Just did what Tad Williams did
getting old, fat man
Funny thing to say when A Wizard of Earthsea has magic everywhere while keeping it dark and mysterious, it even has the wizard academy with different schools.
Wizarding academies need to be done using a very careful and light touch. What retains the arcaneness? Is it exclusive to a hidden cabal within open academia? Or is it open but nonetheless occult to the public at large?
> What retains the arcaneness?
not everyone can do it. A standard trope is that magic needs talent. (Talent as in innate ability, because often times people talking about talent are just coping about them being lazy, not realising you need to work hard to acquire skills.)
> open but nonetheless occult to the public at large?
like a top university - not everyone gets in. Or think of a school in ancient times when public schooling was not a thing. The kids who learned to write, for example in ancient Egypt, were privileged or had smart parents with enough wealth and status to get their kids enrolled. Writing must have seemed like an arcane skill to the ordinary person.
well no shit
magic systems and people pulling fireballs out of their asses is for capeshit
Source: Your ass
i don't get it, why would he need a source for his own opinion about particular motifs in literary genres?
FAT PINK MASTS JUTTING INTO MYRISH SWAMPS WHILE NUNCLE BELCHES AND GREASE DRIPS DOWN HIS CHIN FROM BACON BURNED BLACK ONTO THE NIPPLES OF HIS BREASTPLATE AND THE BOILED LEATHER OF HIS JERKIN WHILE AROUND HIM THE PLANKS OF THE SHIP GROAN LIKE A FAT MAN TAKING A SHIT AND IN THE PRIVY THE PRINCESS CURSES THE GODS AS SHE SHITS BUT THE MORE LEMON CAKES SHE GUZZLES WITH HER MULLED WINE THE MORE SHE SHITS UNTIL SHE'S SHITTING BROWN WATER WHILE NUNCLE SMILES BECAUSE DOES SHE NOT KNOW WORDS ARE WIND AND WINTER IS COMING AND DARK WINGS BRING DARK WORDS AND A LANNISTER ALWAYS PAYS HIS DEBTS MY SWEET SUMMER CHILD BUT WHERE DO prostituteS GO?
I am detecting immense based energy from this post.
George looks like a wizard in real life.
nah, he looks like a fat sod
On book 3 and I'm enjoying the magic so far. Book 2 had some especially kino magic moments:
the House of the Undying
Melisandre giving birth to Stannis's shadow
Varys talking about the voice from the flames
I'm not too concerned about him finishing it or not. Obviously I hope he does, but if not, it's still well worth reading. E.R. Eddison's Zimiavian Trilogy is easily the best fantasy ever written, and it's unfinished, but only a moron would choose not to read it for that reason.
avada kedavra fatso
>Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water
Yezzan was burning with fever, squirming fitfully in a pool of his own excrement. His shit had turned to brown slime streaked with blood ... and it fell to Yollo and Penny to wipe his yellow bottom clean.
🙁
>And I try to keep the magic magical — something mysterious and dark and dangerous, and something never completely understood. I don’t want to go down the route of having magic schools and classes where, if you say these six words, something will reliably happen.
The problem is that Martin is trying to write a "realistic" fantasy series that draws heavily from IRL history, but also involves magic whenever it's convenient with no consistency.
GRRM is right. Having an angel sent down by not-YHWH who has resurrection powers, etc. to make sure you win is silly.
I still can’t believe he actually put that on
>Magic has to be realistic
>Geography does not
What did he mean by this?
>AUSTRIOS
>Brysbane
Did he really
Plot > setting
he's right
Should I read ASOIAF even though he's not going to finish it? Is it worth it anyway?
ASOIAF is my favorite fiction series. You should read it
Yes, it's fantastic. There's a reason everyone is up in arms about TWoW, and it's not because the books suck.
I think a fantasy setting without magic can work. We've seen settings of how the magic has been lost, and maybe the character find it again, or maybe they don't. But we really don't see fantasy that has never had and never will have magic.
What if you take all the usual tropes, elves, orcs, dwarves, goblins, dragons and simply just don't have magic? I understand that typically members of the various races do have some magic users, but what if that was thrown out the window entirely? I think it could still be plenty entertaining.
Why bother reading a fantasy series at that point? Why not just read historical fiction? Most of the benchmarks of fantasy don't work without magic - even going back to the myths and legends they were based upon. How can a dragon breathe fire, fly, or even exist in a world without magic?
>Mogs fat man's moron logic completely and utterly
The "RR" stands for Railroad, that's why he wears funny hats
Meanwhile, he names a whip 'Belmon' in GoT.
Hmmm...I wonder where he got the inspiration from.
Don’t wargs consistently hop into their animals?
Don’t red priests consistently revive the dead?
Wargs risk getting their faces mauled off by their animals. Snow bears and shadow cats “snap at air”.
Red priests cannot consistently resurrect the dead. It is a momentous, miraculous occurrence, to be sure.
But aren’t wolves just like dogs
The term 'warg' specifically refers to a skinchanger who has successfully bonded to a canine, be it a dog or a wolf. It is possible this is because they are the most successful, and thus common, of the skinchangers types, due to dogs being "man's best friend" and all, and wolves not being too far off. Dogs came from wolves, after all.
But still, it is apparently a big risk, to bond to a wild beast
—Dogs were the easiest beasts to bond with; they lived so close to men that they were almost human. Slipping into a dog's skin was like putting on an old boot, its leather softened by wear. As a boot was shaped to accept a foot, a dog was shaped to accept a collar, even a collar no human eye could see. Wolves were harder. A man might befriend a wolf, even break a wolf, but no man could truly tame a wolf. "Wolves and women wed for life," Haggon often said. "You take one, that's a marriage. The wolf is part of you from that day on, and you're part of him. Both of you will change."
—Other beasts were best left alone, the hunter had declared. Cats were vain and cruel, always ready to turn on you. Elk and deer were prey; wear their skins too long, and even the bravest man became a coward. Bears, boars, badgers, weasels … Haggon did not hold with such. "Some skins you never want to wear, boy. You won't like what you'd become." Birds were the worst, to hear him tell it. "Men were not meant to leave the earth. Spend too much time in the clouds and you never want to come back down again. I know skinchangers who've tried hawks, owls, ravens. Even in their own skins, they sit moony, staring up at the bloody blue.".
Varamyr, arguably the most powerful non-greenseer warg/skinchanger in the books, is playing with fire with his animals, as he remembers when he tries to hop into a human (woman) for the first time, which is an excruciating process.
—Abomination. Was that her, or him, or Haggon? He never knew. His old flesh fell back into the snowdrift as her fingers loosened. The spearwife twisted violently, shrieking. His shadowcat used to fight him wildly, and the snow bear had gone half-mad for a time, snapping at trees and rocks and empty air, but this was worse. "Get out, get out!" he heard her own mouth shouting. Her body staggered, fell, and rose again, her hands flailed, her legs jerked this way and that in some grotesque dance as his spirit and her own fought for the flesh. She sucked down a mouthful of the frigid air, and Varamyr had half a heartbeat to glory in the taste of it and the strength of this young body before her teeth snapped together and filled his mouth with blood. She raised her hands to his face. He tried to push them down again, but the hands would not obey, and she was clawing at his eyes. Abomination, he remembered, drowning in blood and pain and madness. When he tried to scream, she spat their tongue out.
magic fricking sucks in this world
You play with fire you get burned.
>I don't want Dark Lords in my story
>Here is Ramsay who flays people alive, rapes and tortures women, and hunts them down and then rapes and tortures them again lol
Also what was The Mountain that rapes' tax policy?
>ayo gibs me dat
Awful thread. FINISH. THE. BOOKS.
>Magic doesn’t work that way.
Wrong.
Not wrong.
Game of Thrones (the TV show) got worse whenever magical elements were introduced.
Stannis' baby demon (lol), Jon Snow coming back to life, everything to do with the Witches etc.
The only cool thing was the Dragons and White Walkers.
> Game of Thrones (the TV show) got worse whenever magical elements were introduced.
Because it was handled horrendously for the most part.
>everything to do with the Witches
What witches? The red priests? There’s only one named red priestess in the books, and like three red priests. They left out all the actually good “witches”, like the prophetic old albino midget, or just a proper hag Maggy the Frog, which was just some wildling woman in the show.
It’s legitimate in the sense that it happened, but Melisandre appears to interpret the shadows using her own religion. Fire and shadows go together.
Just imagine the dude in OP pic on the shitter after a long day of binge-eating whatever the frick kind of goyslop he eats. BRRRfffRRRRaggghhppppppppppp. He probably makes those noises and nothing even comes out, meters of impacted shit clogging up his rectum. Big fat enormous, pimpled belly rippling as he farts. The painful wincing expression on his chubby lil goblinoid face, it no doubt hurts. Wonder if he takes painkillers to handle his shits alone. I've never even read game of kings but I'm repulsed by this man whenever I see his ugly mug posted on this board. I've never even watched the show either, but I know it's dogshit. This man is a shitting pissing fatfrick and I have no doubt that reading his books would be similar to this scene I've just described.
In fact, based on what I see people complaining about it's probably exactly like this, poetically like this. He shits and he shits but the last bit just doesn't come out. People clamor for that last little bit but it just never comes.
Big dumb ugly fat frick. Jfc you morons.
I like the bit where they're crawling through a hole and there is a literal magic door
I did not expect that at all