Fr. Seraphim saw this “plastic” approach to religion most graphically when a young pilgrim, having spent time at another monastery in America, came to Platina talking all about elders, hesychasm, Jesus Prayer, true monasticism, and the ascetic wisdom of the Holy Fathers. One day Fr. Seraphim saw him walking around the monastery singing rock songs, snapping his fingers and bouncing with the rhythm. Surprised, Fr. Seraphim asked him if he didn't think this might go against all his interest in spirituality, but the young man just shrugged his shoulders and replied: "No, there's no contradiction. Whenever I want spirituality, I just switch on the Elder"-meaning that he could take out his rock tape and put in a tape of his Elder giving a spiritual discourse.
The fact that this young man could compartmentalize his life like this, Fr. Seraphim understood, showed that something was missing in the basic formation of his soul. To explain what is meant by this formation, he again referred in his article to a passage from St. Theophan the Recluse:
"A man has three layers of life: that of spirit, of the soul, and of the body. Each of these has its sum of needs, natural and proper to a man. These needs are not all of equal value, but some are higher and others are lower; and the balanced satisfaction of them gives a man peace. Spiritual needs are the highest of all, and when they are satisfied, then there is peace even if the others are not satisfied; but when spiritual needs are not satisfied, then even if the others are satisfied abundantly, there is no peace. Therefore, the satisfaction of them is called the one thing needful. When spiritual needs are satisfied, they instruct a man to PULL into harmony with them the satisfaction of one’s other needs also, so that neither what satisfies the soul nor what satisfies the body contradicts spiritual life, but helps it; and then there is a full harmony in a man of all the movements and revelations of his life, a harmony of thoughts, feelings, desires, undertakings, relationships, pleasures. And this is paradise!"
discord server for all christians:
https://discord.gg/mZnQjYZc
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larpers btfo
Did he give himself that name, or was it given to him?
Why do ortho larpers hate music?
Ancient Christianity hated music too. John Chrysostom said instruments were wrong, and also prohibited female singing. Clement of Alexandria said do nor shave off the beard for that is an imitation of pagans. Women and men had segregated worship and ideal modesty for women was to imitate the Virgin Mary or even veil the face as became popular among some Byzantines
Christianity has changed a lot
Your point? Ancient Christianity would have hated IQfy had it been around.
Yet we see Muslims active here and they hold the like beliefs
>Muh Muslims
Rent free
It’s an internet point though: Islam claims to be the original religion of the followers of Christ. Certainly it seems like these elements have remained as the original Christian ethos more than Christianity has
How is that relevant?
Yes, whether Christian or Muslim these people are what we call "hypocrites".
And IQfy wouldn't appear in the times of ancient Christianity. Everything belongs to it's era.
>prohibited female singing
My soul is at peace
Ancient Christians debated each other much more heavily and tailored their beliefs to specific places they were enculturated; that's very different than Islam's basically ultra-top-down military-centric imposition.
Some arbitrary rule is not "more authentic Christian" than the religion that teaches Christ's divinity vs the religion that does not.
That’s true, I feel like Christianity is innately more capable of accommodating progress and cultural changes, that’s actually core to the development of doctrine
Damn they were moronic
Music or modern rock music?
I don't get it. I'd understand if the rock songs were violent or sexually explicit. But what's wrong with snapping your fingers to rock music that does not glorify sin?
Father Seraphim Rome recommended people to replace contemporary music with classical music, not as an ideal but as reducing the damage it creates on your mind and soul.
Does he ever explain how it damages the mind and soul? Did David not honor the Lord with the beating of drums and the playing of the lyre and with joyous dancing?
I don't think that David listened to rock. Everything a christian does must be Christlike, do you imagine Christ listening to rock, rap, trap or whatever people listen to these days?
Christ visited farmers' weddings as well as places that publicans and prostitutes frequented; I don't think the music He encountered there was particularly spiritual or artistic.
No one says that it is a bad thing if people around you listen to rock or if your friend plays rock in his car with you.
That sounds israeli.
I- I don't listen to rock music, but I don't mind when you put it on near me. Please, be my guest.
I don’t think it was meant to endorse music and prostitution anon
>Everything a christian does must be Christlike, do you imagine Christ listening to rock, rap, trap or whatever people listen to these days?
Christ never used a computer either. We're all apostates here.
The Amish win again
By that same logic, Christians should not seek out the monastic vocation, as Christ never explicitly did so nor did he command his followers to do so.
>inb4 "sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me."
Following Jesus does not mean living away from the rest of society.
>Christians should not seek out the monastic vocation
They shouldn't. Monasticism is Papist Satanism. Same with celibate priests. Catholicism has been controlled by pedophile homosexuals from the beginning.
Go away protie scum.
Absolutely moronic take. There is a lot of rock and metal music that promotes holy thinking or at least good thoughts. It's buried beneath a sea of dreck and spiritual garbage, but if you judge music by the type of music it is instead of what it's saying and promoting, you won't find it. This is why I'm not down with hardcorw Christians that think this way, whether they be Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant: they refuse to see Christ in certain things not because theybpromote a message contrary to His Message, but because of moronic aesthetic decisions. St. Therese of Lisieux recognized that God made people different on purpose and it atands to reason people encounter God in different ways. So long as it doesn't offend God by going against His Law and is properly reverent towards Him, who cares how people worship?
>St. Therese of Lisieux
Quoting a female "saint" and thinking you're following God's word. What a joke catholics are
Cool. Another moronic opinion I shall ignore. God bless you lad.
>misogyny
>Junia described as an apostle in Romans
Isn't copying Christ is a form of vanity?
He clearly said you must do.
No. I can't even understand what you were trying to say, but the answer is no.
Christ literally went out drinking in taverns where music was played, yes.
You just finished saying even classical music is spiritually damaging.
How the frick would David listen to a genre of music thatbwouldn't exist for millennia?
He was a very, very good harpist
Eugene Dennis Rose was a homosexual orientalist who lived a life of degeneracy and debauchery. He had a bad trip and it scared the shit out of him, so he did a hard 180. However, he didn't want to take up the low-status religion of Evangelical Christianity, because that would be low-status. Instead, he took up a high-status religion that was 2deep4u and then spent his remaining time on this Earth before AIDS took him to hell trying to cram every Fundie talking point into Russian Orthodoxy, even when it was explicitly rejected by actual Russians (like Aerial Tollhouses or YEC).
Humorously, in the past decade the schism within the Orthodox Churches has grown deeper, and the Russian Orthodox Church has taken to viewing American Evangelicalism as incredibly high-status and theologically sound, and views it as a model to imitate. This means that Eugene's ortholarp, while heretical at the time, is today (pardon the pun) orthodox, with the Russian Patriarch doing goofy memeshit like quoting the Talmud on the age of the earth or talking about how viruses don't exist (ironic given Dennis's health).
As for why Fundies hate music, it's because it removes you from the control of Christian authorities. There's nothing more to it, it's a cynical power-play, just like the Evangelical hatred of meditation.
Every fundie I know listens to christian rock and Gregorian chanting
>Christian rock
I bet they watch Christian porn and smoke Christian crack
Yeah, because the Evangelical media complex realized that "music is haram" is a fricking stupid idea, and that's why the first dozen or so radio stations are full of queers singing about how Jesus is their boyfriend. It's been 40 years since Eugene Rose died.
>Russian Orthodox Church has taken to viewing American Evangelicalism as incredibly high-status and theologically sound, and views it as a model to imitate
Any book or online reading recommendations for this?
well whoever this is he sounds exactly like an American evangelical or pentacostal pastor, there's nothing "Russian Orthodox" about him except his costume
Here is a poster who does not understand that he has sinned every time he has eaten when he is not hungry, wasted time, and failed to take his influence on others into account.
Smugness is a sin too.
Such presumption is unbecoming of a christian, so haughty and eager to chastise instead of teach
You can't speak this truth on IQfy, lest all the "christians" here be exposed for what they truly are - hedonistic shitposters ever seeking a high ground to sneer from.
Because it’s a schizo religion made for schizos by schizos. Do not attempt to find rationality the musings of a madman.
fr. fr. he did saw this plastic approach was not bussin
You believe listening to rock music is wrong because it goes against spiritual development, yet you post on IQfy. Curious!
>music has no meaning outside of words put on top of it
>Columbo destroys the christcuck
fr. seraphim absolutely mogged by chad young man
but the passage from St. Theophan actually says the young man was right and that Fr. Seraphim was an autist?
>The fact that this young man could compartmentalize his life like this, Fr. Seraphim understood, showed that something was missing in the basic formation of his soul
Lest we forget he lived with his gay lover for years and was heavily into Taoism before converting to Orthodoxy. Dude was a spiritual tourist and the perfect example of a compartmentalized life.
There were saints who were rapists and prostitutes because they completely changed their lives and repented. There was a problem if father Seraphim Rose continued to do those things onced he embraced Orthodoxy and became aware of how bad they are.
The problem is the hypocritical gay accusing someone else of compartmentalizing their life. If he put all that butt stuff behind him he is by definition compartmentalizing his life.
No, you're just neurotic and/or a sodomite.
Rose started his woodland retreat with his gay lover Father Herman who ran it as a personal harem and manrape-farm.
Reminder that Seraphim's biggest influence was the virulently anti-Christian druggie charlatan Alan Watts.
Alan MK ULTRA Watts was an alcoholic, barely functional in his final years. He didn’t like drugs because they made him too introspective (reminded him of how much of a fraud he was)
>tradzoomers eating each other alive: the thread
inb4 GO DILATE troony or NICE NOSE, BERYLLIUMSTEIN
YWNBAW
Correct, I have no desire to be anything other than a man!
>discord
Begone troony
How about YOUR compartmentalization: (1) pretending to be Russian Orthodox and (2) frequenting a cartoon porn forum
whats the difference between "spirit" and "soul" here?
#
The soul (nephesh) is the lower emotional, sensitive, imaginative and vital part of a man (as in, desirous of carnal pleasures and capable of imagining them even in the absence of the physical sense perception of them, for instance). The spirit (ruach) is the higher intellect, consciousness or self-consciousness, conscience, will, personality, and more complex, profound emotions proper.
Animals are also described as having or being “nephesh” (ensouled, sentient) in the Old Testament, but human beings uniquely have all of body, soul and spirit.
Practically the same distinction is in Ancient Greek philosophy (from Plato to Aristotle to the Neoplatonists), between psyche (desirous/animal soul) and pneuma (higher spirit or intellect but could also be conceived as having emotional component).
It appears also that you can have multiple spirits and daemons but the soul is personal. Bad spirits attack your soul (psyche), so spirits might be also thereby be conceived as being what 'animates' the 'mind'.
I remember my Ortholarper phase.
If it was a phase you're exactly what Rose is criticising: being a larper with a plastic approach to religion. Childish to think a 2000 year old religion whose customs, worship and rites have been kept since the early Christians, is a fad or trend. You're a meme. Spiritually female who latches on to fads and follow group think.
>a 2000 year old
The religion that Eugene Rose was practicing was invented in the 20th century.
>Spiritually female
Pagan idea, statement disregarded
>Spiritually female
Christianity was initially popular with women and slaves according to Roman sources. You have women to thank for spreading the love of Christ.
That's precisely why the notion of "spiritually female" is a garbage idea and I disregard anyone who tries to use it as a cudgel
I am the plastic of Lord Jesus Christ. May he shape and mold me as His will sees fit.
Internet tradcath/orthobro types are insufferable.
Gay San-Francisco tub hopper who started a retreat in the woods with his gay boyfriend Father Herman where dozens of men were raped under his watch and guidance:
https://orthochristian.com/71886.html
>Starts a "monastery" which is just a cult of personality compound
Hahaha, classic
Could you imagine these two rawdoggin' it with their funny hats on?
Fr. Seraphim Rose's book Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future is an excellent writing on the UFO deception which still persists to this day.
Also I want to clear something up because these threads always have slander from papalists.
Yes, it is true that Rose before becoming Orthodox was a homosexual. Of course this is a terrible sin.
However, he repented from this lifestyle when he became Orthodox. He never, as an Orthodox Christian, approved of homosexuality or said that it is ok.
Why then, do some people insist on insulting him for his past sins? Is not forgiveness one of the central points of Christian faith? Paul before he became a Christian was murdering Christians! Do you slander and ignore Paul too because of this? Of course not.
>Do you slander and ignore Paul too because of this?
a lot of people have a problem with him tbh. i believe the term is "sus"
>Why then, do some people insist on insulting him for his past sins
Because he was an accursed sodomite who had the audacity to make himself some sort of a "spiritual father" instead of shutting the hell up and modestly repent for his sins.
I like my Jesus to be a beer drinking trucker who keeps on eye on me when we're driving down the highway. And yes we listen to music.
That’s why I can’t take people like him seriously. Everyone knows the Old Testament is israeli horseshit. The New Testament is fine though.
To add, implying that music infects your soul with poison denies man’s free will to act and thinking otherwise is a good way to deny life itself to the point of suicide. Lebe Dein Leben Trotz Anderer.
>Everyone knows the Old Testament is israeli horseshit. The New Testament is fine though.
Confirmed for having read neither. I think the Bible is full of shit but this whole OT/NT divide is a meme for New Agey types. Some parts of the NT are just as cruel as the OT (Revelation and when Jesus mentions hell) and some of the OT is just as sweet as the NT (David forgiving and sparing Saul in the cave for example).
Before he became Orthodox, Rose was a student of Alan Watts. Later however, he critiqued Watts' philosophy and the new age movement, calling it shallow pseudo-philosophy and ultimately nothing more than an excuse to engage in hedonism and degeneracy (which, yes, he participated in himself, but he repented from this and said it was totally evil).
>but he repented from this
He ran a rapefarm retreat in the hills outside San Fran with his boyfriend Father Herman where men were sodomised for decades.
Why do you say these things?
Because it's true, you've fallen for another fakir, in this case a gay San Francisco hippy who went into the woods with his boyfriend (Father Herman), invited men into isolation, and had them raped by the dozen.
>everyone, everywhere, at all times, always and forever, is a sodomite
Don't you ever get tired of yourselves? Doesn't it eventually get a little too convenient that practically every public figure of the past century seems to have run a rape farm at this point? Why the frick are Americans so obsessed with sordid sexuality?
I guess when you make a saint of an American gay hippy and his rapist boyfriend then manrape will be an inescapable stigma attached to your attempts at hagiography.
>rape gay rape anal rape manrape gay gay rape sex cumming rape sodomy rape rape rape
Just give it a rest already you fricking clown
Don't rape men. Don't run a rapefarm where men are enticed by your mystifications to be raped by your San Fran boyfriend. Physician heal thyself.
>true repentance is impossible because I'm a cumbrain
Don't you ever get tired of yourselves?
What do mean true repentance? Rose ran a rapefarm where his boyfriend was raping men up until his death and for decades afterwards. Rose's boyfriend Herman never repented and left the churches that tried to discipline him and stop the manrape.
>nothing more than an excuse to engage in hedonism and degeneracy (which, yes, he participated in himself, but he repented from this and said it was totally evil)
Pussy for me but not for thee is a staple of religion. Even god cucked Joseph.
All religion is a grift.
Here is some good commentary from Fr. Seraphim Rose and several other Orthodox fathers on the Masonic lie of evolution.
His book Nihilism: The Root of the Revolution is an excellent refutation of atheism, scientism, and marxism.
Retroactively refuted by Nietzsche
wrong tbh he refuted Nietzche
Explain in your own words (1) why the volcano demon of those desert lawyers is is the most god of platonic theology (2) the existence of that god being a viable means of evaluation, and (3) why Russian Orthodoxy escapes from the genealogical nihilism and slave morality baked into Christianity. If you can successfully answer these, my soul is saved and your eternal reward awaits you dear apostle.
Fr. Seraphim Rose also foresaw the transhumanist movement and its connection to satanism.
Guenon listened to screeching Egyptian bazaar music on the radio while high as frick on opium, so The Man himself basically endorsed dropping acid at a Taylor Swift concert.
Case closed.
this is a literature forum, but I waste my time typing a response to someone who can't read
extemely redpilled video
icon veneration and praying to saints is idolatry and necromancy. COME OUT OF HER PEOPLE!
Listen guys, it's really simple - unless you're ethnically Slavic or Balkan (Cyrillic alphabet), Orthodoxy is not for you. You will be forever a re-enactor and outsider looking in.
>Balkan raised in Greek Orthodox family
>took the scenic route through secular American culture
>feeling myself drawn to the tradition of my family again
Feels good man
Why do people keep saying these things? If Orthodoxy is the true church then it is for everyone.
Iconoclasm is a gnostic belief that was started by a israeli sorcerer working with a Muslim to subvert the church.
>unironically coping instead of recognizing the argument from culture which the first reply immediately recognized because he is of the culture
absolute lol
>unironically coping
buzzwords with no substance
You are a coping FOOL. Orthodox Christianity can't thrive in America because, like all ethnic religions, it requires a constant trickle of people from the motherland. If the flow slows down or stops, it just dies immediately. Either be universal (Catholic) or be local.
Iconodules use the same arguments as the pagans to justify idol worship.
>Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8 KJV
>They style themselves Gnostics. They also possess images, some of them painted, and others formed from different kinds of material; while they maintain that a likeness of Christ was made by Pilate at that time when Jesus lived among them. They crown these images, and set them up along with the images of the philosophers of the world, that is to say, with the images of Pythagoras, and Plato, and Aristotle, and the rest. They have also other modes of honoring these images, after the same manner of the Gentiles." (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book 1, Chapter 26.6).
1/2
Fr. Seraphim Rose is officially recognized as a saint by the Georgian Orthodox church.
Also Jay Dyer's work is supported by many Orthodox priests and he is American and not ethnically Slavic or Balkan.
The claim that if you aren't Slavic then you're just a larper is a very poor argument. If you believe that, then it follows that the pagans of Europe who converted to Christianity were just larpers, which is nonsense.
People screeching larper aren’t interested in good faith discussion so this will fall on deaf ears. Apparently anyone with genuinely held convictions is larping. Pretty cowardly if you ask me
What do we think of Father Spyridon?
Extremely based. His spiritual advice has benefited me greatly too. May God bless him
Based, what I wanted to hear and expected
He is based.
Ecumenical Council Nicea II Contradicts GODS Law.
Greek Septuagint:
>You shall not make to yourself an idol, nor likeness of anything, whatever things are in the heaven above, and whatever are in the earth beneath, and whatever are in the waters under the earth. You shall not bow down[PROSKUNEO] to them, nor serve them[LATREUO]; for I am the Lord your God, a jealous God, recompensing the sins of the fathers upon the children, to the third and fourth generation to them that hate me, and bestowing mercy on them that love me to thousands of them, and on them that keep my commandments. - Exodus 20:4-6
Definition of the Second Council of Nicaea, 787 A.D.,
>"Proceeding as it were on the royal road and following the divinely inspired teaching of our holy Fathers, and the tradition of the Catholic Church (for we know that this tradition is of the Holy Spirit which dwells in the Church), we define, with all care and exactitude, that the venerable and holy images are set up in just the same way as the figure of the precious and life-giving cross; painted images, and those in mosaic and those of other suitable material, in the holy churches of God, on holy vessels and vestments, on walls and in pictures, in houses and by the roadsides; images of our Lord and God and Saviour Jesus Christ and of our undefiled Lady, the holy God-bearer, and of the honourable angels, and of all saintly and holy men. For the more continually these are observed by means of such representations, so much the more will the beholders be aroused to recollect the originals and to long after them, and to pay to the images the tribute of an embrace and a reverence of honour ['proskynesis], not to pay to them the actual worship ['latreia'] which is according to our faith, and which is proper only to the divine nature: but as to the figure of the venerable and life-giving cross, and to the holy Gospels and the other sacred monuments, so to those images to accord the honor of incense and oblation of lights, as it has been the pious custom of antiquity. For the honour paid to the image passes to its original, and he that adores an image adores in it the person depicted thereby..."
Venerating Angels and Saints CONDEMNDED by SCRIPTURE
>And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship[proskuneo] before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship[proskuneo] God. - Revelation 22:8-9
>As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped[proskuneo] him. But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I myself am also a man." - Acts 10:25-26
2/2
>all this
>just an excuse to plug your shitty discord server
No one can beat him in a debate.
>presup
Its hard to defeat a dead man
Saint Paisios prophecied the covid "vaccine" many decades ago. He said that it will be a forerunner to the mark of the beast.
Long ago before television was invented, there was a Russian Orthodox monk who prophecied that one day, everyone will have a demonic box in their homes that hypnotizes them with illusions.
>posting another defrocked cult leader
American Orthobros are operating on another level of being a gullible moron
There are many Orthodox clergy who have spoken out against the covid "vaccine". Both in Orthodox countries and in the west.
He was defrocked and later arrested because a fricking child died in his CULT COMPOUND because he's a dangerous lunatic who convinced her moronic parents to deny her treatment, not because he was opposed to the "covid vaccine" you absolute fricking mongoloid moron
living a joyless life of misery and asceticism because you think you’re going to get an eternal paradise when you die is so cucked
>doesn't even have the most rudimentary knowledge of what he's trying to dunk on
I'm so sick of meme culture lol
>satisfaction of them is called the one thing needful.
sirs...