not him and I haven't read it yet (it's near the top of the list for what I'm going to read next), but I thought the point of Fathers and Sons wasn't to glorify nihilism, but that Ivan Turgenev foresaw nihilism growing out of liberalism and to illustrate the difference between the liberal, older generation and the newer, more radical nihilists that spawned from them - as an inevitability from liberalism.
Fathers and Sons is unironically one of my favourite books and its about how young people often get swept up in ideology and end up completely failing to notice the things they should be cherishing, such as the love that their parents are showing them. It's about how blind and ignorant the young can be. You could say the equivalent today would be young people who loathe their parents because they don't know all the latest LGBTQ jargon and viewpoints, or /misc/ chuds who hate their parents because they don't know about the latest loony conspiracy theory involving israelites.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>/misc/ chuds who hate their parents because they don't know about the latest loony conspiracy theory involving israelites.
this never happens lol
2 years ago
Anonymous
They complain about boomers all the time. There are always threads about how they've had arguments with their parents cos their parents don't believe the twin towers were just mist farted out of the arses of israelites or whatever bollocks they believe now.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Thanks, I feel that corroborates with my general impression. I was going to read it before I read Demons by Dostoevsky (which I was either going to read afterwards, after considering reading "What is to be Done?" out of the historical chain, and maybe rereading "Notes from Underground" before I get to Demons.) I was really looking forward to it, because the parallel is obviously massive today!
2 years ago
Anonymous
>/misc/ chuds who hate their parents because they don't know about the latest loony conspiracy theory involving israelites.
this never happens lol
I hate my parents cause they strived to provide me an expensive education and a life in the West instead of leaving me in our le trad shithole full of violent unprincipled morons who are in the end much more respectable than any tamed Western dog
I'm sincerely convinced the average coffee-sipping beer-swilling Bulgarian porch monkey is better off than I am in my Westoid intellectual hellhole, and even their EUropoid larpers can take the conditions of our illiberal society for granted and pretend to be enlightened all while they moan about gypsies and the reactionary slavic nations
When necessary, I will toss them in the blackest grimiest retirement home I can find
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ungrateful brat
2 years ago
Anonymous
>/misc/ chuds who hate their parents because they don't know about the latest loony conspiracy theory involving israelites.
Lol wut? I think you need to get off the internet pal.
2 years ago
Anonymous
See
[...]
I hate my parents cause they strived to provide me an expensive education and a life in the West instead of leaving me in our le trad shithole full of violent unprincipled morons who are in the end much more respectable than any tamed Western dog
I'm sincerely convinced the average coffee-sipping beer-swilling Bulgarian porch monkey is better off than I am in my Westoid intellectual hellhole, and even their EUropoid larpers can take the conditions of our illiberal society for granted and pretend to be enlightened all while they moan about gypsies and the reactionary slavic nations
When necessary, I will toss them in the blackest grimiest retirement home I can find
2 years ago
Anonymous
What's you view on Demons by Dostoevsky? I found two books to be similar thematically, they both touch on Nihilism, both show young people get swept up in ideology, both critique older generation of that time and younger one.
And while Turgenev is calm, steady, almost clinical in his approach(contrary to his supposed counterpart in Demons) and a lot more objective, subtle and neutral, Dostoevsky goes much more harder, wilder, grimmer and hits his view with a sledgehammer into reader.
Former also spends considerable time 'painting' nature, while latter focuses more on landscape of ideas and characters.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I haven't read Demons, only crime and Punishment and his short stories/novellas. Will have to give it a read. From what I've read I feel a greater affection for Turgenev than Dostoevsky, but still think the latter is brilliant.
A Farewell to Arms, The Sun Also Rises, and The Old Man and the Sea are what I've read from him and they are all great. There's something in his style that's so direct, so precise and to the point that every time that he changes from the description of a place to the description of an emotion or a relation it feels like pure direct honesty. In other places his style works as a good contrast with what the characters 'should' be living because his objectivity brings them back to place. An example, major spoilers ahead, is when at the end of A Farewell to Arms the woman of the main character dies after giving birth to a deadborn and the last lines of the novel are 'After a while I went out and left the hospital and walked back to the hotel in the rain.' which shows you how an event that would be the cause of so much suffering and pain, is interrupted (in the prose) by the objective fact of having to move. Also after you read him you realize how influetial he was because almost every modern writer has a similar style.
What's supposed to be wrong with Goethe? This list feels oddly specific. They should list the brain-dead OBVIOUS turn-offs (Ayn Rand counts).
t. have a copy of Mein Kampf on my shelf and I'm considering throwing it out because I actually want to try dating/hooking up and there's a distinct non-zero possibility I might get someone back at my place
I've never read her myself, but I've never understood the obsessive hatred towards her from people who've clearly not read anything past JK Rowling and other YA. I mean, sure, it's "right-wing" and espouses the virtues of a perspective that they don't align with - but none of these people have even read it!
How are people able to disagree so vehemently and judge her writing when they haven't even read her (and hence, own the book and needing to place it somewhere... perhaps on a bookshelf.)
What exactly is wrong with fathers and sons? Is b***hing about book being about males.
why goethe and turgenev.
Goethe???
>duh duh duh duh
You are all stupid. Women get angry at men who don't worship them with unquestioning servility. Goethe and Turgenev are MEN. They don't explicitly disparage women (which would validate them through "sour grapes' rationalization) but rather imply, subtly and unconsciously, through their writing that women aren't worth two gobs of spit. This is picked up by the fembrain, which becomes extremely agitated.
As a man you should know this already. You all disgust me.
I wasn't talking about Ayn Rand you frothing subhuman shit-stain. I would assume that many women have read Turgenev. Those women who were raised at least somewhat properly have subconscious "inhibitions" and so have no explicit negative reaction beyond the disinterest and neglect typical of females towards masculine subjects. Those women who have been raised to EMBRACE their female neuroses have NO INHIBITIONS and so react very negatively to non-validating stimuli as you can clearly see.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I would assume that many women have read Turgenev.
there is not a single demographic where you could say "many" of them have read Turgenev, you nitwit
2 years ago
Anonymous
What about Russian literature enthusiasts? You're so stupid it's physically painful. I respect myself less for even responding to you.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm >not that anon
but I'm glad I decreased your level of self respect in some fashion
2 years ago
Anonymous
Don't be, I had none to begin with.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You should have some at least. You're clearly literate, which is more than can be said for the average IQfyposter in the current year
Chin up, buddy. But not too high because your opinions are still bad and wrong
2 years ago
Anonymous
>/misc/ chuds who hate their parents because they don't know about the latest loony conspiracy theory involving israelites.
Lol wut? I think you need to get off the internet pal.
I can't believe someone this stupid has the audacity to call somebody else dumb.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Elaborate.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>subconscious "inhibitions" and so have no explicit negative reaction beyond the disinterest and neglect typical of females towards masculine subjects.
This goes both ways. If anything men are much worse
2 years ago
Anonymous
That's not my point. I'm explaining why a woman might read Turgenev, let's say as part of a university course or because her husband owns a copy, and not form as negative an opinion as the woman in the OP.
It's obviously reasonable that women wouldn't be interested in masculine things. To deny them this right would be to deny women possession of any unique traits or predilections.
>but rather imply, subtly and unconsciously, through their writing that women aren't worth two gobs of spit.
Explain the ending of Faust Part II, then.
Whoever made this list is moronic. Why on earth is Goethe listed? He at least could have gone for the Peterson meme or any other popular le masculine self-help book writer.
t. enjoyer of masculine self-help books
never associate with political drones unless you have to. even the ones who you think are on 'your team' may turn on you at the most unexpected time because you went against some tribal taboo. a potential partner should have the capacity to care about you as a person more than she does about staying ahead of ideological trends.
Girls don't give a frick about what's on your shelf.
I have a whole row dedicated to German history and liberal girls will tell me how cool it is.
If they already want to frick you could have every Rand book and they wouldn't care.
Goethe???
>go to guy's house for a chat
>see his bookshelf
>there is a bad picture of Goethe
>autistic suicidal rage
>sperg out on him and leave
> no dommy gf oneitis for me to stab
Aaaaaaah in what book does this occur, steppenwolf possibly?
My dick has an appointment with your mom.
Hah, I haven't read any of these
why goethe and turgenev.
I have e-girlta in the same shelf as Freud and Foucault
>e-girlta and foucault
Time to stock up.
What exactly is wrong with fathers and sons? Is b***hing about book being about males.
It's about nihilism
not him and I haven't read it yet (it's near the top of the list for what I'm going to read next), but I thought the point of Fathers and Sons wasn't to glorify nihilism, but that Ivan Turgenev foresaw nihilism growing out of liberalism and to illustrate the difference between the liberal, older generation and the newer, more radical nihilists that spawned from them - as an inevitability from liberalism.
Fathers and Sons is unironically one of my favourite books and its about how young people often get swept up in ideology and end up completely failing to notice the things they should be cherishing, such as the love that their parents are showing them. It's about how blind and ignorant the young can be. You could say the equivalent today would be young people who loathe their parents because they don't know all the latest LGBTQ jargon and viewpoints, or /misc/ chuds who hate their parents because they don't know about the latest loony conspiracy theory involving israelites.
>/misc/ chuds who hate their parents because they don't know about the latest loony conspiracy theory involving israelites.
this never happens lol
They complain about boomers all the time. There are always threads about how they've had arguments with their parents cos their parents don't believe the twin towers were just mist farted out of the arses of israelites or whatever bollocks they believe now.
Thanks, I feel that corroborates with my general impression. I was going to read it before I read Demons by Dostoevsky (which I was either going to read afterwards, after considering reading "What is to be Done?" out of the historical chain, and maybe rereading "Notes from Underground" before I get to Demons.) I was really looking forward to it, because the parallel is obviously massive today!
I hate my parents cause they strived to provide me an expensive education and a life in the West instead of leaving me in our le trad shithole full of violent unprincipled morons who are in the end much more respectable than any tamed Western dog
I'm sincerely convinced the average coffee-sipping beer-swilling Bulgarian porch monkey is better off than I am in my Westoid intellectual hellhole, and even their EUropoid larpers can take the conditions of our illiberal society for granted and pretend to be enlightened all while they moan about gypsies and the reactionary slavic nations
When necessary, I will toss them in the blackest grimiest retirement home I can find
Ungrateful brat
>/misc/ chuds who hate their parents because they don't know about the latest loony conspiracy theory involving israelites.
Lol wut? I think you need to get off the internet pal.
See
What's you view on Demons by Dostoevsky? I found two books to be similar thematically, they both touch on Nihilism, both show young people get swept up in ideology, both critique older generation of that time and younger one.
And while Turgenev is calm, steady, almost clinical in his approach(contrary to his supposed counterpart in Demons) and a lot more objective, subtle and neutral, Dostoevsky goes much more harder, wilder, grimmer and hits his view with a sledgehammer into reader.
Former also spends considerable time 'painting' nature, while latter focuses more on landscape of ideas and characters.
I haven't read Demons, only crime and Punishment and his short stories/novellas. Will have to give it a read. From what I've read I feel a greater affection for Turgenev than Dostoevsky, but still think the latter is brilliant.
Some one sell me on Hemingway. Why read his stuff?
The short stories are very good. Why read him? Well, are you into fiction at all?
What are the recurring themes in his fiction?
listful melancholy
A Farewell to Arms, The Sun Also Rises, and The Old Man and the Sea are what I've read from him and they are all great. There's something in his style that's so direct, so precise and to the point that every time that he changes from the description of a place to the description of an emotion or a relation it feels like pure direct honesty. In other places his style works as a good contrast with what the characters 'should' be living because his objectivity brings them back to place. An example, major spoilers ahead, is when at the end of A Farewell to Arms the woman of the main character dies after giving birth to a deadborn and the last lines of the novel are 'After a while I went out and left the hospital and walked back to the hotel in the rain.' which shows you how an event that would be the cause of so much suffering and pain, is interrupted (in the prose) by the objective fact of having to move. Also after you read him you realize how influetial he was because almost every modern writer has a similar style.
What do Americans actually mean by "great"? They call everything "great" these days. No hierarchy of values at all.
better than good, I'm not even american
>I'm not even american
In spirit, you are.
his one of the best of all time. The only reason you haven't read him is due to homosexual lit elite trying to take him down.
>Capital of the World
>The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber
>The Killers
>One Trip Across
>The Tradesman's Return
>Fifty Grand
There you go anon, some of my favorite hemingway short stories if you want to give him a chance.
What's supposed to be wrong with Goethe? This list feels oddly specific. They should list the brain-dead OBVIOUS turn-offs (Ayn Rand counts).
t. have a copy of Mein Kampf on my shelf and I'm considering throwing it out because I actually want to try dating/hooking up and there's a distinct non-zero possibility I might get someone back at my place
Ah, but you see, I like the wiener, so I actually have a chance.
homosexuals just fornicate with whatever bum they can find on the street, no need to worry about edgy books .
>implying any homosexual who has made his way into your bedroom is going to give a shit what books you have on the shelf
Only liberals and Redditors are scared of Ayn Rand lmao
I've never read her myself, but I've never understood the obsessive hatred towards her from people who've clearly not read anything past JK Rowling and other YA. I mean, sure, it's "right-wing" and espouses the virtues of a perspective that they don't align with - but none of these people have even read it!
How are people able to disagree so vehemently and judge her writing when they haven't even read her (and hence, own the book and needing to place it somewhere... perhaps on a bookshelf.)
No one’s scared of her, sped. If I saw her fanfic on someone’s shelf I’m assuming they’re a moron.
Yea, they're pathologically scared of her to the point where they consider her a "red flag" because of her politics.
Assuming someone is a moron is not the same as being scared of them.
Only liberals and redditors read Ayn Rand
>duh duh duh duh
You are all stupid. Women get angry at men who don't worship them with unquestioning servility. Goethe and Turgenev are MEN. They don't explicitly disparage women (which would validate them through "sour grapes' rationalization) but rather imply, subtly and unconsciously, through their writing that women aren't worth two gobs of spit. This is picked up by the fembrain, which becomes extremely agitated.
As a man you should know this already. You all disgust me.
how many women do you think have read ayn rand or turgenev?
I wasn't talking about Ayn Rand you frothing subhuman shit-stain. I would assume that many women have read Turgenev. Those women who were raised at least somewhat properly have subconscious "inhibitions" and so have no explicit negative reaction beyond the disinterest and neglect typical of females towards masculine subjects. Those women who have been raised to EMBRACE their female neuroses have NO INHIBITIONS and so react very negatively to non-validating stimuli as you can clearly see.
>I would assume that many women have read Turgenev.
there is not a single demographic where you could say "many" of them have read Turgenev, you nitwit
What about Russian literature enthusiasts? You're so stupid it's physically painful. I respect myself less for even responding to you.
I'm
>not that anon
but I'm glad I decreased your level of self respect in some fashion
Don't be, I had none to begin with.
You should have some at least. You're clearly literate, which is more than can be said for the average IQfyposter in the current year
Chin up, buddy. But not too high because your opinions are still bad and wrong
I can't believe someone this stupid has the audacity to call somebody else dumb.
Elaborate.
No.
>subconscious "inhibitions" and so have no explicit negative reaction beyond the disinterest and neglect typical of females towards masculine subjects.
This goes both ways. If anything men are much worse
That's not my point. I'm explaining why a woman might read Turgenev, let's say as part of a university course or because her husband owns a copy, and not form as negative an opinion as the woman in the OP.
It's obviously reasonable that women wouldn't be interested in masculine things. To deny them this right would be to deny women possession of any unique traits or predilections.
>but rather imply, subtly and unconsciously, through their writing that women aren't worth two gobs of spit.
Explain the ending of Faust Part II, then.
>Women get angry at men who don't worship them with unquestioning servility.
This only applies to simps.
Dude don't throw out a book, just put in storage, Jesus
That being said, ya Mein Kampf is a lame book, but ya don't throw it away
>e-girlta is my favorite book
No one would ever say this
Plenty of people say that, just not around plebs.
Whoever made this list is moronic. Why on earth is Goethe listed? He at least could have gone for the Peterson meme or any other popular le masculine self-help book writer.
t. enjoyer of masculine self-help books
Guilty of 2 and 3...
4 here
>Goethe
I guess one of her "toxic" exes was a fan of him.
>Have more Faulkner than I do Hemingway.
Phew, I think I'm safe
If someone think Fathers and Sons being a favorite book is a warning sign, then they just warned me to not associated with them.
>Fathers and Sons... grrr well that certainly sounds phallocentric! grrr into the pile it goes
i wiener a doodle shiggidy diggidy doo
would you date a IQfy girl if she was a blue checkmark journalist from yale who constantly tweeted about abortion and hating the west?
Be honest.
only if she was hot and liked the same chinese cartoons I did
Yeah I'm pretty desperate tbh
never associate with political drones unless you have to. even the ones who you think are on 'your team' may turn on you at the most unexpected time because you went against some tribal taboo. a potential partner should have the capacity to care about you as a person more than she does about staying ahead of ideological trends.
Girls don't give a frick about what's on your shelf.
I have a whole row dedicated to German history and liberal girls will tell me how cool it is.
If they already want to frick you could have every Rand book and they wouldn't care.
Nothing is more of a warning than actively using Twitter.