How come so many say " Taiwan and China," as if Taiwan isn't also claiming to be the China?
How come so many say " Taiwan and China," as if Taiwan isn't also claiming to be the China?
How come so many say " Taiwan and China," as if Taiwan isn't also claiming to be the China?
"China and China" would just confuse people and "Republic of China and People's Republic of China" is too much of a mouthful. It's just more convenient to call the ROC something else and let people investigate the political complexities resulting from the Chinese civil war on their own time.
>West Taiwan and North Macedonia
Remind me Byzantine and Eastern Roman case
Lately a lot of people in Taiwan (mostly young ones) started to reject Chinese identity in favor of Taiwanese
Some Taiwanese people make that distinction because they support Taiwanese independence from the ROC and don't see themselves as Chinese. As for foreigners who say "Taiwan and China," they're mostly just clueless; my father remembers when Taiwan was called "Blue China," but people my age have grown up in a world where the PRC is the only Chinese government with significant international recognition, so a lot of people just assume that Taiwan is a totally different country.
>my father remembers when Taiwan was called "Blue China,"
Kino
Red China was so fricking kino of a name, why the frick did it stop being called that? It's not even like it's offensive.
Taiwan can't rescind its claim to the mainland. China has made it clear that they will not tolerate independence movements.
Honestly Taiwan is fricking up big time by not going all in on Taiwanese independence, the longer the wait the more likely it is the US wouldn't be able to do shit to stop a Chinese invasion of the island.
If they had any brains whatsoever they'd have done it immediately when the Chinese navy was nonexistent. If they'd done that they'd be internationally recognised by now and the PRC would have given up on Taiwan.
>If they had any brains whatsoever they'd have done it immediately when the Chinese navy was nonexistent
they still preferred to think of Chinese back then.
>If they had any brains whatsoever they'd have done it immediately when the Chinese navy was nonexistent.
They weren't going to immediately declare independence after the Civil War because (1) the ROC was a one-party state controlled by Chinese nationalists who had no desire to create a "Republic of Taiwan," and (2) at that point it still seemed possible that the PRC would collapse and the ROC could swoop in and take back the Mainland. What the ROC actually should have done was push to get a separate seat at the UN when the PRC got recognized by the US, while still maintaining that their country was China (like how North and South Korea both have UN seats while both claiming to be the rightful government of all of Korea). Then they could get international recognition without declaring independence and provoking an invasion by the PRC.
>and the PRC would have given up on Taiwan.
This would almost certainly not happen. The political separation between Taiwan and the Mainland is the last part of the Century of Humiliation that hasn't been undone. It's still a huge scar on the collective Chinese psyche.
>This would almost certainly not happen. The political separation between Taiwan and the Mainland is the last part of the Century of Humiliation that hasn't been undone. It's still a huge scar on the collective Chinese psyche.
This is 21st century internet era resurgent Chang mentality. Part of the century of humiliation was losing Mongolia also but they don't give a shit about that. In the late 20th century the CCP was a lot more practical minded than it is now where it's the official party of Chinese ultranationalism.
>This would almost certainly not happen. The political separation between Taiwan and the Mainland is the last part of the Century of Humiliation that hasn't been undone. It's still a huge scar on the collective Chinese psyche
Is Chinese ego really that fragile they get 'humilliated' for not controlling a fricking island smaller than Switzerland that nobody cared about until the 20th Century.
imagine if a foreign power came and snatched Long Island or Hawaii from the United States, mutt. and Taiwan's a lot more significant than either of those. that's the absolute simplest i can describe it but that might still be too complex for your tiny little pea brain to comprehend.
But the ROC isn't a foreign power, both governments are in agreement that the ROC is Chinese and always has been.
>if a foreign power
do you mean china? because taiwan was controlled by the spaniards and the dutch way before china did
It doesn't really matter anyway. If Taiwan is ever reunited with the rest of China, it will be through military force. Even now, with China as its most prosperous and stable, after the embarrassing poverty of the past and before the inevitable civil unrest in the future, China has nothing to offer Taiwan, which is prosperous and stable in its own right.
>If Taiwan is ever reunited with the rest of China, it will be through military force.
The KMT have some pro-reunification candidates for leadership.
Realistically speaking, short of a Putin tier wildcard the way I see it reunifying is a pro-reunification candidate of the KMT gets in and sets up some extremely loose confederation and overtime the confederation slowly grows in power, like the EU.
I also think this process might already have started had China not chimped out over Hong Kong.
Nah, the CCP will never share power with anyone ever again.
Maybe not. It's a free win for them if they would though.
All it takes is Biden dropping the ball or an isolationist Trump pulling out of Asia and Taiwan has to think about pallying up to China.
Fun fact: The KMT is actually a legal party in the PRC's government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Committee_of_the_Chinese_Kuomintang
>legal party
>in china
there's only one party in china, the ccp, the other ones are just satellite parties to pretend they're 'democratic'; all of them are controlled by the ccp and serve its interests one way or another.
I know this. I just found it interesting. The same way it's interesting that North Korea has a legal religious party in their government.
Because it's unironically controlled opposition. Having a puppet KMT party was incredibly useful in the earlier days of the PRC to secure KMT assets in China and reign in the more left-wing members in the country, and it's useful today as a way to influence Taiwan. It's also a way to influence people inside and outside the country because they are associated with the KMT, even though the mainland equivalent has nothing to do with the ideology of the old KMT and that in Taiwan currently.
Taiwanese wages are stagnant and its economy isn't doing that well despite TSMC being a huge cash cow. Taiwan is going to face the same demographic crisis China and most 1st world countries will face excluding the US. Right now more Taiwanese engineers are moving to the Mainland to work after being offered better wages than vice versa.
Yeah, I remember when the foreign power of Qing China snatched Taiwan away from its legitimate owners, the Dutch. However, I suppose that doesn't count, right? I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese textbooks removed that part of Taiwan's history.
God, Chinese propaganda is truly moronic.
>Yeah, I remember when the foreign power of Qing China snatched Taiwan away from its legitimate owners, the Dutch
You mean Zheng Chenggong's reconquest? Yeah every Chinese knows about that. The Dutch had no place being there. In 1795 their representatives kowtowed to emperor Qianlong.
>reconquest
Chang, I know you get paid for this, but at least make it credible. China was the last country to control Taiwan and you know it.
Nah, it is more like if they took Puerto Rico. PR may even be more significant compared to how significant Taiwan used to be. When Japan got it after the first Sino Japanese war, there was a very small population of Han on Taiwan. After WWII, it passed to ROC. It was never part of the PROC. Wheras currently, PR are all kinda Americans. And also there is no "they", since it wasn't a foreign power that "took" Taiwan to begin with. They are the remnants of the ROC.
>taiwan is more relevant than long island
The PRC never controlled Taiwan,
The ideological enemy of the CCP resides on Taiwan. It is extremely significant. The BS claims about "ALWAYS PART OF CHINA" are secondary compared to the simple fact that there is still a bastion of Chinese opposition on their doorstep - one that could be used by the US to threaten the PRC's territorial and political integrity.
Albeit, as Taiwan and the PRC's politics fluctuate, that attitude may change, and in fact it probably already has changed somewhat.
>is still a bastion of Chinese opposition on their doorstep - one that could be used by the US to threaten the PRC's territorial and political integrity.
"territorial and political integrity" is a laughable statement, considering china is shilling their worldview in asia and africa, and constantly violates other countries' air/ocean borders, be it taiwan, japan, the philipphines or argentina.
also, taiwan is no longer interested in taking the mainland back, they don't consider themselves chinese anymore and couldn't care less about what the ccp does in china, so the "chinese opposition" is just chinese propaganda to perpetuate the conflict intentionally because they're to arrogant and prideful to get over it.
Here, think of it like this: If Mexico is openly courting with an anti-US country what would the US reaction be?
The only reason US barely cares about potential threat is because they already cleaned their backyard decades ago. That's a luxury not everyone have
yeah, because taiwan is totally a threat to china. why would they fear so much an alliance with the us if they can invade and control the island easily as they constantly boast about.
>because taiwan is totally a threat to china.
It's the worlds third largest US aircraft carrier after Japan and Britain, of course that's a problem.
I think a potential enemy on their doorstep part is the more important bits. PRC don't really care about Mongolia for example
Taiwanese nationalism isn't an independentist movement because the PRC has never controlled Taiwan.
Taiwanese nationalists want to declare independence from the ROC.
Yes, but China considers it to be one.
Because Taiwan does not claim to be the China and hasn't for decades. They're only forced into keeping the old claim simply because China threatened to use force if they declare independence. US does not guarantee Taiwanese freedom so they can't just willy nilly change the status quo
It's an unfinished civil war. Taiwan will get invaded eventually. it's just not exactly sure when yet.
Taiwan just need to apply the Samson Option.
I suggest you familiarize yourself with party politics in Taiwan.
Official position in the ROC constitution =! DPP attitude and China policy.
There's a reason why the DPP's logo is pic related.
What is China? What does it mean?