How did the Gnostic Christians back up their claim that the Old Testament demiurge is evil and Christ is good, when the Christ is the messiah of the old testament demiurge?
How did the Gnostic Christians back up their claim that the Old Testament demiurge is evil and Christ is good, when the Christ is the messiah of the o...
They claimed Christ emanated from Barbelo (the first entity to arise from the Monad) - which ignores the fact that Barbelo is characterized as female but whatever.
From the Gospel of Judas:
>"I know who you are and where you have come from," Judas says. "You are from the immortal realm of Barbelo."
True Gnosticism ought to disregard Christ altogether imo
>True Gnosticism ought to disregard Christ altogether imo
Holy shit you're moronic
Finally! Someone opened a damn book on the subject.
they are good reads. well not all of them but quite a few are notable
Too right! I'm glad someone else is an enjoyer. I think most people just don't have the attention span but those that do are rewarded. It really irritates me how many people just skim the wikis and start ranting about Gnosticism anyways, but you already know what I'm talking about. I'm preaching to the preacher here
this board is shit but you’re one of the good ones, anon. check out this book. I also recommend “the gnostic paul” by elaine pagels as it goes through the Pauline letters line by line and explores how the gnostics interpreted it. paul was very acclaimed by them.
>... your light, give me your mercy! My Redeemer, redeem me, for I am yours; the one who has come forth from you. You are my mind; bring me forth! You are my treasure house; open for me! You are my fullness; take me to you! You are (my) repose; give me the perfect thing that cannot be grasped!
>I invoke you, the one who is and who pre-existed in the name which is exalted above every name, through Jesus Christ, the Lord of Lords, the King of the ages; give me your gifts, of which you do not repent, through the Son of Man, the Spirit, the Paraclete of truth. Give me authority when I ask you; give healing for my body when I ask you through the Evangelist, and redeem my eternal light soul and my spirit. And the First-born of the Pleroma of grace -- reveal him to my mind!
>Grant what no angel eye has seen and no archon ear (has) heard, and what has not entered into the human heart which came to be angelic and (modelled) after the image of the psychic God when it was formed in the beginning, since I have faith and hope. And place upon me your beloved, elect, and blessed greatness, the First-born, the First-begotten, and the wonderful mystery of your house; for yours is the power and the glory and the praise and the greatness for ever and ever. Amen.
>Prayer of Paul (the) Apostle.
>In Peace.
>Christ is holy.
Very cool!
post the real schizo chart
Which one of these is the demiurge
Real Gnosticism considers Jesus to be evil and the true antichrist.
what are the texts of “real gnosticism”?
The ones I wrote in my notebook.
No? Christ descended to bring gnosis to our reality, that is incredibly important. He is an undiluted being from the kingdom of light who became present in our reality, why would you ignore him?
Where is that image from?
If you actually bothered to read any gnostic literature you would know they constantly rebuke moses and the israelites. the apocyphon of john basically says “no he was wrong here’s why”
The frick is with all the brackets?
Most of what we have of gnostic writings are incomplete. The brackets I assume are additions by the translator to either connect the gaps between existing fragments of a text or to provide clarity for an obscure line.
Plants aren't passive objects just enjoying life peacefully. Plants constantly vie for the sun and strangle the life out of each other to secure a spot. It just happens extremely slowly so we don't think about it.
>Perhaps there are elements of the physical world which are closer to the Good, perhaps artifacts or remnants of the Barbelo.
As an honest question: do you know anything about Gnosticism? According to most interpretations that I know of, we all posses shards of the kingdom of light (souls). We got them unknowingly from Yaldabaoth the Demiurge. He is not completely evil, just tyrannical because he thinks he is the only god and tries to trap us in his imperfect material creation that only mimics the kingdom of light. Some limited goodness still reaches our world, but it is marred by suffering on account of creation's imperfection. Owing to our souls, we are all in a sense remnants of Barbelo and, through Her, emanations of the Monad. We are just distanced from full participation in the kingdom of light because of the delusion of Yaldabaoth.
Who cares, it's heresy.
it’s the truth you hylic scum
also I would like to add the most popular, or rather, well known in pop culture of the gnostic texts are the gospel of mary and the gospel of judas really only because they sound the edgiest. they are the least worthwhile of the literature, in my opinion, judas is a comparatively late text
oh, they all are!
No I think it denies the inherent good of Creation, and is therefore at best heresy, and at worst outright blasphemy.
according to the New Testament who is the god of this world?
Anthanasius was a manlet Black person (they called him “the black dwarf”) who was exiled 5 times. Cyril and Augustine said such outlandish things you’d have to be a willful moron to believe them, Iraneus too. Do you really believe the Valentinians ate babies? Do you really believe the strict vegetarian Manichaeans ate pork dipped in cum?
God of this age*
and ruler of this world; prince of this world
>pork dipped in cum
What?
>Epiphanius said Gnostics ate heavily spiced fetuses ripped from the womb (Panarion)
>Augustine said Manichean eucharist was “sprayed with Human semen” (de Haeresibus ad Quodvultdeum)
>Cyril said the “Manichees” ate pieces of pork dipped in semen (Catechetical Instruction, 6.33)
Augustine whom Catholics love so much was a zealous Manichaean for almost a decade.
http://gnosis.org/library/psaj1.htm
You don't think. You just repeat what Catholics wrote as fact centuries ago.
from the Pistis Sophia:
>We have heard that there are men on earth who take the sperm of men and the flux of women, and mix them with lentils and eat them… Surely this is an unseemly deed?”
>Then was Jesus wroth with the world and said unto Thomas, Amen I say, this sin is more heinous than all sins and all iniquities!
>Men of that kind, they shall be instantly taken into the outer darkness…they shall be destroyed, they shall perish in the outer darkness, in the region where there is no mercy and no light, but weeping and gnashing of teeth. And every soul that shall be carried into the darkness, shall never again return, but shall perish and be dissolved
people like the anon screeching heresy will believe anything their church tells them to believe they are no better than boomer old ladies
>"my heretical text says otherwise!"
you just keep saying that word over and over and over
>belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine
I wonder why I keep using this specific word for this specific circumstance
Because you're trying to use it as a derogatory?
Do you have something to add to the conversation, or you're here just to keep repeating something no one, except you, cares about.
Prove to me why the Catholic Church is wrong and some cult that was suppressed in like 300-400AD is right.
I guarantee everybody that is interested in this is either implicitly or unknowingly Satanic or that they just want to LARP as smart people.
moron
>is either implicitly or unknowingly Satanic
no, they are just interested in the occult. doesn't make them evil.
>interested in the occult
So they're implicit Satanic worshippers
>doesn't make them evil
But they're Satanic
occult doesn't mean satanic or evil, just means hidden knowledge. you are seeing the world through the lens of christianity.
Anon he's trolling now. He ran out of arguments.
>you are seeing the world through the lens of Christianity
Yes.
Source and context pls 🙂
You know that a lot of priests tested their faith by summoning demons, right?
Ignorant moron
Gnosticism is too negative. There are many great things about the world. Sure, there is a lot of horrible shit. But what about plants? They just chill, get their sustenance from the sun. Gentle and kind beings. How are plants something an evil being would create?
who is the god of this world in the New Testament?
It's Satan. I could understand how you could argue that most of creation is Satanic. Animals, for example, have to kill just to survive. But why would Satan create plants, who are basically just pure good beings?
Congratulations, you and the Cathars believe the same thing and asked the same question
What was their conclusion?
If Gnosticism is true how does the book of Revelation fit into the picture? It seems to be a very israeli text. Maybe there’s an angle I’m not seeing though.
there is evidence for a speculative israeli Gnostic tradition before Christianity. For example, the Apocalypse of Adam dates to after the Pauline letters but before the composition of Mark. I am a bit confused at your question, could you be more clear? sorry
It just doesn’t seem to fit with Gnosticism considering all the satan/serpent connections in the book. In Gnosticism the serpent is often seen as a savior of some kind.
to my understanding not everything is gnostic but then again I am not an expert on understanding gnostic exegesis. you are right that it is very israeli but remember revelation is also anti-pauline. gnostic elements in the revelation of john can arguably be found in mostly revelation 12, arguably. I will come back to answer more in depth later if this thread is still active but check this out for now. it is not a part of the nag hammadi library, but it is speculated to have been included with revelation in some circles
http://gnosis.org/library/revjon2.htm
pic unrelated but that’s a good one too
think about Christianity and something as basic as the question "does baptism save", you'll have or 4 different answers depending on the church and denomination. we don't even need to get crazy and talk about the tik tok pastors, i'm talking about the historical theologians arguing with each other.
now imagine Gnosticism. no church, no official doctrine, nothing. there's no clear answer to anything, there's millions of versions of gnosticism, and everything we know about it comes from the apologetics of people who hated them.
Are there any modern day gnostics?
Gnostics from antiquity surviving to the present day: Mandeans. John the Baptist is their most exhalted prophet. To my knowledge, they do not care about Jesus at all. If you are particularly interested in John the Baptist check out Mandeaism
Alawites aka Nusayris incorporate Gnostic elements, this religion is peak syncretism
I guess anyone who entertains any of this could be a modern Gnostic
yeah, tons. Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn is a good example. i attended a gnostic mass once.
How was a gnostic mass compared to a regular one?
Whoa, woman priests and Allister Crowley goth writings in the back of a diner. BASED
Just read Thomas instead
Where does Father Freeshadow come in to this, though?
Basically anyone who says they're spiritual but not religious.
me :3
HOW DO GNOSTICS EXPLAIN PLANTS???
Do you think plants are excluded from the cycle of life and death? Plants eat other plants, fungi, insects when they have the chance.
Plants aren't really alive, since they lack consciousness.
By the way, I'm not the person you replied to.
>Plants aren't really alive
Made me spit my water
It's true. Plants don't think or feel, so they don't have true life.
This is that no pre-renaissance boat could reach sardinia all over again.
I forgot about that
>Plants eat other plants, fungi, insects when they have the chance.
No, they rely on the Sun for sustenance.
Speaking of which, how do you explain the Sun? A being which gives life to Earth, without any selfish expectation of reciprocity.
Perhaps there are elements of the physical world which are closer to the Good, perhaps artifacts or remnants of the Barbelo.
Is there any Gnostic metaphysics I can read more about?
Daily reminder Tertullian was a heretic and his condemnation of Gnosticism is invalid
>How did the Gnostic Christians back up their claim that…Christ is good
In my experience, they didn't and still don't.
you’re just a brainlet
How to escape it?
It is my belief that we are allowed to enjoy the pleasures of the world, but they are temporary and they will cause suffering when they eventually go. Losing all attachments is the key to liberation. Behind all of your thoughts and beliefs, for everyone there is an observer. When you observe the observer in meditation you will see what all people truly are, and lose negative feelings and emotions related to attachment. In the Gospel of Thomas, I belief that this is what Jesus Christ refers to when he speaks of "circumcision in spirit", losing attachments. Notice that this is the exact same as Buddhism in that element, and the exact same as Christianity, if you actually read the new Testament.
(cont)
According to old testament Christianity, we must circumcise infant boys, in order to create a blood pact with God. Jesus Christ said this was unnecessary, and that if God wanted it, babies would be born circumcised. How is it possible that both scriptures are about the same God? When did Jesus ever say he was God? When did Jesus ever say to worship him? When I was in my "delusional" phase I would type with a name and then go on long tangents related to Gnosticism, I have forgotten most of it though.
no man has seen the father. moses did not meet the father. the pharisees did not know the father. the father judges no one (translation: the father couldn’t care less about you or me)
God is not male or female, but the totality of everything that exists. We are all a small part of God. That is what I believe at least.
okay and Gnostics spoke of the Father, they spoke of feminine and androgynous aspects and emanations too refer to schizo chart above
I wish that the other Gnostic scriptures are found, if any exist.
>That is what I believe at least.
What you believe is wrong and fricking stupid.
Why?
Why not?
I'm asking you. Are you basing that reaction on something, or that was just an immediate unreasonable reaction?
I was basing it on your post.
So it's just an immediate unreasonable reaction then. Different Anon, too.
Eat shit homosexual. I'm a different anon too.
I only believe Gnosticism partially and believe woman is the demiurge, because father = sky, mother = earth.
also, it pays to know that any materialism or physicalism is demiurgic in origin and thats why idealism should be the philosophy of all people. anything less is giving satan his due.
Every single one of us should listen to the kool and the gang album light of the world and act accordingly
because jesus christ in the bible and the christ aeon in gnosis are not the same entity
the christ aeon is part of the "all" and he descended on earth to give man - the creation of the false god yaldabaoth - knowledge
this is gnosis
About 87% of gnostic christians never made that claim.