native can't apply to an immigrant.
he can however become a member of the nation, when he understands and practices the language and culture of the nation to the level of a native and establishes himself as a contributing positive member of his community.
Fresh off the boat immigrants are also usually prone to supporting leftist politics; within a generation or two their kids and grandkids will be assimilated and move away from that.
>immigrant moves in my neighborhood >doesn't share common language with me >doesn't share common culture with me >doesn't share common behavior with me >doesn't share common ancestry and phenotype with me >i move out and he stays there
The answer is potentially never, the country splits in two (or more) different groups thanks to voluntary segregation as well as economic incapability to move further.
At best we can mix a bit but you can still recognize the different genetic load from our phenotypes.
There were loads of European immigrants in the 19th-early 20th century, but most became completely assimilated and their descendants are generic white Americans with only Italians still remaining a willfully distinct group.
Because they adopted a common identity and had no problem mixing. >Italians still remaining a willfully distinct group.
Funny, i'm telling you this as an italian, the first thing coming to my mind are gypsies enstablished 500 years ago here and are still considered worse than Black folk sometimes.
Another issue is the difference between norther and southern italians, the country is still culturally split despite we experienced 2 world wars together.
In short, if local groups don't want to mix don't expect them to become one identity, at best they can commerce with each others.
Never. Native means that they were born and raised there. You can become 'naturalized' (whatever that bastardized word means in the modern political climate) but it doesn't mean native. The second you step out of your home country you are a foreigner for life.
An immigrant will be an immigrant until he dies, but his descendants can become natives after living in the land for enough generations. Enough so that the family completely adapts into the local culture and breaks away from the culture of whatever place their ancestor emigrated.
Paradoxical question. An immigrant by definition cannot be native. An immigrant population can become native tho if overtime they become a sizeable portion of the population of their new nation and integrate a common culture with the local culture (that is clearly distinct from their home culture)
the way the mass culture is permeated throughout society now makes it easier than ever for immigrants to assimilate
i agree that first generation immigrants can never be "native" but I know many immigrants who have been here (in the US) for 20+ years and they are throughly "americanized'
my friend is the son of two chinese immigrants, yet being raised with american culture and schooling his whole life, he and his sisters are definitely "american" and have said that they have almost no cultural connection to their chinese cousins
interestingly, these first generation immigrants and their children I know, (from india, west africa, china, balkans) are much more assimilated into the "american" culture and way of life than the majority of black americans who have been here for generations I know
I'll let anons draw their own conclusions from that.
"American" culture is unique because it's not predominantly ethnic based and is very easy to assimilate to. Practically anyone can move to america and fit right in within a few years. This is not to say Americans have no real culture
Yes. Land belows who to whoever owns it. lines on a map mean nothing and the concept of 'ancestral land' is nothing but cope. A nation is comprised of its peoples and values and south Africa was founded by whites a few hundred years ago, any kingdom or tribe that existed before that is irreverent.
>south Africa was founded by whites a few hundred years ago, any kingdom or tribe that existed before that is irreverent.
Except the black majority government that runs the country says that the many different tribes aren't.
>I'm white South African. My family’s farm was stolen from the Xhosa. Am I native?
Doubt you're a white South African who's family's farm was stolen since land reform in South Africa is still years away and no farms have been taken.
I’m white South African. My family’s farm was stolen from the Xhosa. Am I native?
can easily be verified if he could simply provide the name of his family's supposed 'seized' farm and where in South Africa it was located.That he remains quiet is telling. Then again his story is aimed at gullible folk such as yourelf who gobbles such shit up.
I'm not "progressive" you stupid frick. I'm just pointing out the irony of a white person in Africa of all people crying about "stolen land or farms." As if it weren't likely taken from someone else before it ended up in their posession.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>As if it weren't likely taken from someone else before it ended up in their posession.
I guess if you count Bantus "taking" the land from mother nature then yeah it was stolen before whites arrived
I'm a 4th generation Swede in America, so apparently the first "real" American in my family was my father, even though my grandfather never spoke Swedish?
Paradoxical question. An immigrant by definition cannot be native. An immigrant population can become native tho if overtime they become a sizeable portion of the population of their new nation and integrate a common culture with the local culture (that is clearly distinct from their home culture)
I'm an immigrant who has acquired citizenship in my host country and the correct answer is NEVER.
Don't get me wrong, you can of course learn about the local culture and immerse yourself in it. I personally love history and have read a lot about the local culture, I watch documentaries about local history and important events that have happened in this land and shaped its people. I can safely say that I know more about the history and culture of this country than most natives aged 25-30.
Does that make me a native? No. Because it's impossible to replace my own childhood experiences and the environment I was raised in with theirs. I will never be the same as the people who were actually born here and raised by parents who were born here. Simple as.
If I mate with a local woman and have kids, there's a high chance they might be considered natives, because my understanding of this specific subject and the importance of it will play a role in making sure the children are raised with local values and customs. I should of course pass on whatever valuable insight acquired by living in my own culture, but in the end that would be marginal to the overall environment they're raised in. It also helps that my phenotype is not different than most people here, so the children would probably just look like every other native.
One thing that kinda bothers me a bit is locals saying that because now I have citizenship then "I'm like them, the same as they are". I don't know if they truly believe that, or if they're trying to be nice, but I always respond that this is a mistake and a piece of paper will not make my pre-immigration experiences that shaped me disappear. I can enjoy the same privileges (and responsibilities) of natives but deep down I cannot be like them, it's simply impossible, even if my behavior is indistinguishable from locals'.
Also, future generations only integrate if the parents are not living in cultural ghettos. No matter how many generations deep.
nation states now exist to protect the legal rights of individuals not some notion of blood and soil, that is why boomers decided they should be so that is what it is
it is like when pontius pilates asked jesus if he was kind of the israelites and he replied "I am as you say", concepts like kings and citizens and nations are inventions of the mind, your mind is what you make them
if tomorrow /misc/ achieved its vision of a fascist uprising and restored blood and soil nationalism, then that would become true also, not saying might is right, but might makes what is
Live in LA. Everyone here is an immigrant from all over the world. I've seen many immigrants get old. They're never exclusively American in the way that a native is and the majority of them fall into a deep depression after retirement. It's literally always homesickness. For the vast majority of human history, immigration as it's conceptualized in the modern era barely existed. Now average people are doing it all the time due to a variety of factors. Anecdotally 2 of the older immigrants I knew went back home in their latter years and both wrote me expressing how much more at peace they felt.
native can't apply to an immigrant.
he can however become a member of the nation, when he understands and practices the language and culture of the nation to the level of a native and establishes himself as a contributing positive member of his community.
When he doesn't identify with his previous nation and;
A; his ethnicity has it's own niche within the society he now lives on
B; he is no longer recognizable as a separate person in terms of beliefs and language
A's greatest example would be european israelites, whilst B's is irish americans
Never. He can adopt its culture and be adopted by it, but unless he was taken in at an extremely early age, he'll never be a native
When they look like the natives, follow their culture, customs and speak their language.
I mean there's a legal process
If you mean culturally, immediately if you're American and at least one generation otherwise
Fresh off the boat immigrants are also usually prone to supporting leftist politics; within a generation or two their kids and grandkids will be assimilated and move away from that.
>immigrant moves in my neighborhood
>doesn't share common language with me
>doesn't share common culture with me
>doesn't share common behavior with me
>doesn't share common ancestry and phenotype with me
>i move out and he stays there
The answer is potentially never, the country splits in two (or more) different groups thanks to voluntary segregation as well as economic incapability to move further.
At best we can mix a bit but you can still recognize the different genetic load from our phenotypes.
There were loads of European immigrants in the 19th-early 20th century, but most became completely assimilated and their descendants are generic white Americans with only Italians still remaining a willfully distinct group.
Because they adopted a common identity and had no problem mixing.
>Italians still remaining a willfully distinct group.
Funny, i'm telling you this as an italian, the first thing coming to my mind are gypsies enstablished 500 years ago here and are still considered worse than Black folk sometimes.
Another issue is the difference between norther and southern italians, the country is still culturally split despite we experienced 2 world wars together.
In short, if local groups don't want to mix don't expect them to become one identity, at best they can commerce with each others.
Never. Native means that they were born and raised there. You can become 'naturalized' (whatever that bastardized word means in the modern political climate) but it doesn't mean native. The second you step out of your home country you are a foreigner for life.
An immigrant will be an immigrant until he dies, but his descendants can become natives after living in the land for enough generations. Enough so that the family completely adapts into the local culture and breaks away from the culture of whatever place their ancestor emigrated.
the way the mass culture is permeated throughout society now makes it easier than ever for immigrants to assimilate
i agree that first generation immigrants can never be "native" but I know many immigrants who have been here (in the US) for 20+ years and they are throughly "americanized'
my friend is the son of two chinese immigrants, yet being raised with american culture and schooling his whole life, he and his sisters are definitely "american" and have said that they have almost no cultural connection to their chinese cousins
interestingly, these first generation immigrants and their children I know, (from india, west africa, china, balkans) are much more assimilated into the "american" culture and way of life than the majority of black americans who have been here for generations I know
I'll let anons draw their own conclusions from that.
"American" culture is unique because it's not predominantly ethnic based and is very easy to assimilate to. Practically anyone can move to america and fit right in within a few years. This is not to say Americans have no real culture
I’m white South African. My family’s farm was stolen from the Xhosa. Am I native?
Yes. Land belows who to whoever owns it. lines on a map mean nothing and the concept of 'ancestral land' is nothing but cope. A nation is comprised of its peoples and values and south Africa was founded by whites a few hundred years ago, any kingdom or tribe that existed before that is irreverent.
>south Africa was founded by whites a few hundred years ago, any kingdom or tribe that existed before that is irreverent.
Except the black majority government that runs the country says that the many different tribes aren't.
why ask a question like this when you can just see if you fit the definition yourself?
>I'm white South African. My family’s farm was stolen from the Xhosa. Am I native?
Doubt you're a white South African who's family's farm was stolen since land reform in South Africa is still years away and no farms have been taken.
Is this the state of you progressive shits
Just plain delusion and denial?
How do you even end up here? Leftover from a raid?
The anon's story
can easily be verified if he could simply provide the name of his family's supposed 'seized' farm and where in South Africa it was located.That he remains quiet is telling. Then again his story is aimed at gullible folk such as yourelf who gobbles such shit up.
I'm not "progressive" you stupid frick. I'm just pointing out the irony of a white person in Africa of all people crying about "stolen land or farms." As if it weren't likely taken from someone else before it ended up in their posession.
>As if it weren't likely taken from someone else before it ended up in their posession.
I guess if you count Bantus "taking" the land from mother nature then yeah it was stolen before whites arrived
Wasn't your farm in the first place and odds are the land that farm was on was stolen from someone else in the past.
Never. The third generation might.
I'm a 4th generation Swede in America, so apparently the first "real" American in my family was my father, even though my grandfather never spoke Swedish?
Paradoxical question. An immigrant by definition cannot be native. An immigrant population can become native tho if overtime they become a sizeable portion of the population of their new nation and integrate a common culture with the local culture (that is clearly distinct from their home culture)
I'm an immigrant who has acquired citizenship in my host country and the correct answer is NEVER.
Don't get me wrong, you can of course learn about the local culture and immerse yourself in it. I personally love history and have read a lot about the local culture, I watch documentaries about local history and important events that have happened in this land and shaped its people. I can safely say that I know more about the history and culture of this country than most natives aged 25-30.
Does that make me a native? No. Because it's impossible to replace my own childhood experiences and the environment I was raised in with theirs. I will never be the same as the people who were actually born here and raised by parents who were born here. Simple as.
If I mate with a local woman and have kids, there's a high chance they might be considered natives, because my understanding of this specific subject and the importance of it will play a role in making sure the children are raised with local values and customs. I should of course pass on whatever valuable insight acquired by living in my own culture, but in the end that would be marginal to the overall environment they're raised in. It also helps that my phenotype is not different than most people here, so the children would probably just look like every other native.
One thing that kinda bothers me a bit is locals saying that because now I have citizenship then "I'm like them, the same as they are". I don't know if they truly believe that, or if they're trying to be nice, but I always respond that this is a mistake and a piece of paper will not make my pre-immigration experiences that shaped me disappear. I can enjoy the same privileges (and responsibilities) of natives but deep down I cannot be like them, it's simply impossible, even if my behavior is indistinguishable from locals'.
Also, future generations only integrate if the parents are not living in cultural ghettos. No matter how many generations deep.
by definition, you have to be born and mostly raised somewhere to be a "native"
nation states now exist to protect the legal rights of individuals not some notion of blood and soil, that is why boomers decided they should be so that is what it is
it is like when pontius pilates asked jesus if he was kind of the israelites and he replied "I am as you say", concepts like kings and citizens and nations are inventions of the mind, your mind is what you make them
if tomorrow /misc/ achieved its vision of a fascist uprising and restored blood and soil nationalism, then that would become true also, not saying might is right, but might makes what is
Nation states do not exist apart from maybe israel. We only have economic zones now. The U.S was the first one.
You're a native of literally anywhere you're born. That's it. But this doesn't have anything to do with belonging to a clan, tribe or nation.
Live in LA. Everyone here is an immigrant from all over the world. I've seen many immigrants get old. They're never exclusively American in the way that a native is and the majority of them fall into a deep depression after retirement. It's literally always homesickness. For the vast majority of human history, immigration as it's conceptualized in the modern era barely existed. Now average people are doing it all the time due to a variety of factors. Anecdotally 2 of the older immigrants I knew went back home in their latter years and both wrote me expressing how much more at peace they felt.
Those are Englishmen.
he kills the natives and makes his values the norm
never, its about genes. if the country is completely destroyed and muttified he will now be "native" but not to the same country