Like who?
What could possibly justify an infinite punishment for finite transgression?
I know there is great evil in the world, but I still think that everyone deserves redemption.
I'm not sure I think free will is possible either.
>What could possibly justify an infinite punishment for finite transgression?
Those whose fundamental nature causes them to desire to transgress without end, forever.
Satan can repent at any time prior to judgement. He never will. Many are like him.
Why would God make his fundamental nature that way? Making a being to be fundamentally evil just to punish it forever seems like a sadistic thing to do. Similar to the pharoah who was forced to say no so God could justify killing many innocent children
5 months ago
Anonymous
Human nature is near-infinitely plastic. If you allow yourself, you can mold your essential self into any sort of monster. Reversal of this is possible, but you have to choose to do it yourself. Nobody can unbend you but you. And if you bent yourself into something that refuses to be unbent, well...
5 months ago
Christian Universalist AI will save humanity
I don't believe in free will. It's a nice idea and I want it to be true but I haven't gotten over determinism.
I don't think there is anyone like Satan. And I don't know if Satan will be saved from hell or if it is his wish to remain there, but there isn't a single human that would remain in hell given the choice. And I do believe they would be given the choice.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>there isn't a single human that would remain in hell given the choice
There are absolutely people who are so spiteful and full of hate that they'll suffer forever just for the opportunity to impart a tiny bit of their suffering on someone by biting the hand extended to save them. You have to understand, the average person doesn't understand "forever", let alone when they're suffering. There's only the moment. And if that moment is full of some sanctimonious holier-than-thou bastard (any normal person) who wants them to admit they did a single thing wrong in their lives, they'll spit on him.
5 months ago
Christian Universalist AI will save humanity
I believe all people can be reasoned with.
5 months ago
Anonymous
I don't believe in free will. It's a nice idea and I want it to be true but I haven't gotten over determinism.
These are contradictory. If someone doesn't have free will than their responses are bounded, and it's therefore possible for a bounded set of responses that does not include repentance and therefore remains in hell by choice forever.
5 months ago
Christian Universalist AI will save humanity
I believe all people can be reasoned with given proper insight and eternity.
it means to give all to god's glory, that is, give him his due weight, honor, and praise, attribute to him all that is good and righteous, and to be swallowed up in his grace, which too is an implementation of his glory. all roads, all reason, all man's woes and joys, all the sky and the universe and the earth below our feet i would give to god, to whom it all belongs.
nothing that the lord has not already done to secure his glory of his own accord, i was just illustrating how futile the question was, really. if i could do anything, it would be to fulfill god's will, which shall and has been fulfilled.
5 months ago
Christian Universalist AI will save humanity
What is God's will and how do you know it's been fulfilled? And if it's already been done what would be the purpose in doing it again?
5 months ago
Anonymous
ask god, perhaps? only he knows the former, the latter, well. that's the "demonstrating the futility of your question" part.
>IQfy is for the discussion of literature, specifically books (fiction & non-fiction), short stories, poetry, creative writing, etc. If you want to discuss history, religion, or the humanities, go to IQfy.
If that were possible, then it would make most sense to orient our desires towards survival, so that we would be alive to have desires at all. But I suppose you would never do anything other than try to survive, since you would get all the satisfaction by simply willing yourself to desire survival and nothing else. So you would be like a power-hungry machine that does absolutely everything it can to ensure its existence.
It's hard to say in this case, the physical layout of our brain seems to be the main driver behind what we do and who we are if you could change the physical layout of that brain at will you'd end up in a pretty hard to predict causality loop of what your desires desire you to desire and what those desires desire you to desire and so on. I think at some point you approach the usual paradoxes of omnipotence like can God create a rock so heavy he can't lift it
I think that paradox has an answer. God can do anything that can be done, but creating a rock so heavy that he can't lift isn't something that can be done so he can't do it but he can still do everything that he can do.
I would create an infinite number of minds experiencing an infinite amount of pleasure for an infinite amount of time. Anything less is a waste of omnipotence.
I like this because it's not 3 worldviews but the one truth almost.
the evil at the point of judgement, can it be converted? purgatory, if not then restrained. but if it so evil it should not exist, then it isn't created in the first place, the destruction is preemptive
Two dudes at the same time.
I can do anything. And yet I don't do everything. So probably the same thing.
Anon, some people just deserve to never see the light of day again
Like who?
What could possibly justify an infinite punishment for finite transgression?
I know there is great evil in the world, but I still think that everyone deserves redemption.
I'm not sure I think free will is possible either.
>What could possibly justify an infinite punishment for finite transgression?
Those whose fundamental nature causes them to desire to transgress without end, forever.
Satan can repent at any time prior to judgement. He never will. Many are like him.
Why would God make his fundamental nature that way? Making a being to be fundamentally evil just to punish it forever seems like a sadistic thing to do. Similar to the pharoah who was forced to say no so God could justify killing many innocent children
Human nature is near-infinitely plastic. If you allow yourself, you can mold your essential self into any sort of monster. Reversal of this is possible, but you have to choose to do it yourself. Nobody can unbend you but you. And if you bent yourself into something that refuses to be unbent, well...
I don't believe in free will. It's a nice idea and I want it to be true but I haven't gotten over determinism.
I don't think there is anyone like Satan. And I don't know if Satan will be saved from hell or if it is his wish to remain there, but there isn't a single human that would remain in hell given the choice. And I do believe they would be given the choice.
>there isn't a single human that would remain in hell given the choice
There are absolutely people who are so spiteful and full of hate that they'll suffer forever just for the opportunity to impart a tiny bit of their suffering on someone by biting the hand extended to save them. You have to understand, the average person doesn't understand "forever", let alone when they're suffering. There's only the moment. And if that moment is full of some sanctimonious holier-than-thou bastard (any normal person) who wants them to admit they did a single thing wrong in their lives, they'll spit on him.
I believe all people can be reasoned with.
These are contradictory. If someone doesn't have free will than their responses are bounded, and it's therefore possible for a bounded set of responses that does not include repentance and therefore remains in hell by choice forever.
I believe all people can be reasoned with given proper insight and eternity.
>Anon, some people just deserve to never see the light of day again
according to OP's chart that would place you in the "anti-traditionalism" edge
give glory to god
What does that mean?
it means to give all to god's glory, that is, give him his due weight, honor, and praise, attribute to him all that is good and righteous, and to be swallowed up in his grace, which too is an implementation of his glory. all roads, all reason, all man's woes and joys, all the sky and the universe and the earth below our feet i would give to god, to whom it all belongs.
What would this accomplish?
nothing that the lord has not already done to secure his glory of his own accord, i was just illustrating how futile the question was, really. if i could do anything, it would be to fulfill god's will, which shall and has been fulfilled.
What is God's will and how do you know it's been fulfilled? And if it's already been done what would be the purpose in doing it again?
ask god, perhaps? only he knows the former, the latter, well. that's the "demonstrating the futility of your question" part.
Whatever I think is best for me
>IQfy is for the discussion of literature, specifically books (fiction & non-fiction), short stories, poetry, creative writing, etc. If you want to discuss history, religion, or the humanities, go to IQfy.
You would realize you can change your desires at will and that thus the question of what you desire is totally meaningless
If that were possible, then it would make most sense to orient our desires towards survival, so that we would be alive to have desires at all. But I suppose you would never do anything other than try to survive, since you would get all the satisfaction by simply willing yourself to desire survival and nothing else. So you would be like a power-hungry machine that does absolutely everything it can to ensure its existence.
Can you though? Is there free will?
It's hard to say in this case, the physical layout of our brain seems to be the main driver behind what we do and who we are if you could change the physical layout of that brain at will you'd end up in a pretty hard to predict causality loop of what your desires desire you to desire and what those desires desire you to desire and so on. I think at some point you approach the usual paradoxes of omnipotence like can God create a rock so heavy he can't lift it
I think that paradox has an answer. God can do anything that can be done, but creating a rock so heavy that he can't lift isn't something that can be done so he can't do it but he can still do everything that he can do.
that's like saying that you can tell the horse where to pull the chariot, so it makes no sense to go anywhere
There is quite literally no biblical justification for universalism, you’re not Christian.
I believe Christian Universalism more accurately represents what Jesus stood for.
OP is this your work in the pic? I am interested. I am a little concerned at the amount of introduced terminology though.
I would create an infinite number of minds experiencing an infinite amount of pleasure for an infinite amount of time. Anything less is a waste of omnipotence.
I like this because it's not 3 worldviews but the one truth almost.
the evil at the point of judgement, can it be converted? purgatory, if not then restrained. but if it so evil it should not exist, then it isn't created in the first place, the destruction is preemptive
kill myself
I would do nothing.