Is there anywhere I can learn more about the Yellow Turbans? I’m trying to figure out for myself if they were just or not, but the Wikipedia article looks like some little nerd added his biased “facts” without any citations.
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Is there anywhere I can learn more about the Yellow Turbans?
Book of the Later Han
my homie
Is there a proper English translation? Or am I going to have to learn Ancient Chinese and come back to it?
I would be surprised if there isn’t one. But it’s definitely hard to find on the interwebz instead of a library. Or you can just read Romance of the Three Kingdom and call it a day, it starts from the yellow turban rebellion.
You didn't even read it you pseud. You just post reccs without actually knowing things. It's over 100 volumes man. Shorter histories haven't even been translated.
This is really interesting, and exactly what I've been trying to make sense of after reaing that novel.
Picrel is where I'm looking at. It looks enticing, but I don't read Chinese yet. Texts like these, not to mention the scholarship on texts that go full autism trying to make sense of compressed historical accounts. Do you read Classical Chinese, where characters shared by the modern language apparently can mean completely different things? Can I trust Google Translate for the gist of the Classical prose, or will its AI be confused by even that?
God, I hope I learn Scholar's Chinese adequately before I die.
Yes, as a Chang, I read Classical Chinese. And no, you can’t fully trust google, it gets confused frequently and will give you ridiculous results here and there.
Well, time to study until I burst a vessel
>郡國生異草,備龍蛇鳥獸之形。
Bro what's this mean? It feels like a prose tone poem. What's the strange grass? Just weeds filling space like usual? Or is it a metaphor for a latter element in the narrative? And am I to believe the last clause contains a (semi)chengyu that's just a metaphor for humans growing wild from the aftermath? Since dragon-snake is a metaphor for great and lesser men.
I'm really impressed by the tone setting involved, despite most of the text being dry. Chinese has a lot of color in this sense, and I'm reminded of verses from Jeremiah, which is more destruction colored, whereas this is mutation colored.
>Or is it a metaphor for a latter element in the narrative?
I'm thinking >異草 is so vague it could even mean plague, or the following neglect that led to further rebellion.
Alright, while I didn't get my posts answered, and not even OP is around for us to stumble into Chinese's forest of words, but it's become a lot clearer to me how untranslatable Chinese is due to wordplay, and the necessity of footnotes if doing a flat unmetaphorical translation.
Damn. I just read the first 40 pages of this right now and it actually does a pretty great job of explaining the different characters. Maybe I will learn ancient Chinese this time (I’m going to experience major burnout and forget everything I read in a week).
It's literally 3 citations out of dozens.
But the fact that it’s even there at all is indicative of how Wikipedia is starting to become biased and inaccurate.
I plan on doing that anyways, but was hoping to get a non-fictionalized account of what happened. This was used as a source a lot on the Three Kingdoms fandom page so I’m going to see if it’s available somewhere else not for 51 dollars:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/40725564
Good thread, lurking for more classical chinese history. Hopefully chinkspammer doesn't show up
>trusting Wikipedia at all after the Scots wiki furry fiasco
Anon, you should know better
Why would he? This thread's sharp scholars make China look good.
>the Scots wiki furry fiasco
QRD?
Also this is a refreshing good thread, I noticed the mod finally got around to IQfy and deleted off topic threads. A little late but better than never.
>Also this is a refreshing good thread
Don’t worry, the “ugh another chinkshill bug chang thread” spammercel will arrive soon
I'm fine with that homosexual showing up provided my questions are fulfilled.
What exactly got you riled up of the Yellow Turban Sect?
They are constantly portrayed in a negative light in all of the adaptations of RotK I’ve seen/played and when I read about them on Wikipedia the article seemed almost strangely defensive. A lot of people online also seem to praise them and label them as almost proto-socialists which may lessen or strengthen your opinion on if they were evil or not. Although some sources online say that Zhang Jue didn’t even revolt because of tax/farming issues so the whole thing is a mess.
The Yellow Turban rebellion was history's first massive peasant uprising (emphasis on peasant, agrarian laborers led it). Naturally c**ts hopped up on Marxism thought it justified the narrative of Historical Materialism, especially as China had ended Feudalism by the Han Dynasty.
>China had ended Feudalism by the Han Dynasty
Well, no they hadn't. The Han was far more centralized than the Zhou, sure, but it still ran off of feudal principles with vast fiefs held as appanages by the vast royal family.
Eh Han Feudalism was basically just the Emperor enfeoffing you by going "here's a title and the stipend that comes with said title." Technically the Lords of the Realm never received land up until the Three Kingdoms era, and thats only because Governors went Warlord.
I guess what I really want to know is whether the Yellow Turban Rebellion had a positive or negative impact on Ancient China and if they were an improvement to what they replaced or just a lateral move?
They were necessary. Powers that are too centralized too easily degenerate. Look at how Rome emptied its treasury buying Chinese goods, edging on bankruptcy, and contributing to its fall by barbarians. China was the economic center of the planet at that point, and would have experienced similar spendthriftness by its royals if peasants didn't constantly wake them up to proper governance.
I hate chink bug
Nice contribution man
It was the highest IQ post I ever saw
By which I mean yeah that anon's a moron
Most writing on them stresses the Taoist religious nature of the rebellion. What's also interesting is it's a rebellion that had to be prematurely because the Han government caught wind that they where planning a take over, if they hadn't been found out they probably would have won by taking them over from the inside.
There isn't all that much recorded. A lot of what is passed around nowadays is just speculation.
They DID win, in a way.
https://sanguo.substack.com/p/grand-peace-and-rice-rebels
Thanks for the link to that substack. That guy has a lot of interesting articles.
Imagine if Ma Yuanyi wasn’t found out bros….
I think they would still have problems because the eunuchs would have still be there.