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VGH
This would’ve been Japan if they didn’t invade the rest of China and supported Germany fighting the Soviets.
was there ever an answer for why the frick japs didnt attack russia? seems like its such a weird thing people just dont think about it
Khalkin Gol blew them the frick out
russia looked to be on the brink of defeat with germs knocking on moscow. they were allied with germany. they have a massive army stationed in manchuia. the very act of declaring war on russia would have given stalin a stroke at such a grim time. it would have linked up easy trade between germany and japan that couldnt be fricked up by subs and ships...it seems like a perfect storm
And how would the Japs cross Siberia? A small Russian force would've kept them at bay for a long time. It would become a war of attrition.
>And how would the Japs cross Siberia?
You can blow up railways you dumb coon
They literally build a whole new railway through Burma with forced labour. They sure as hell could repair the railwaylines using Russian slave labour.
>a bunch of guys were able to ride a railroad peacefully east after getting promises from both the Reds and the Entente that nothing bad would happen to them
>this is proof that Japan could fight from Vladivostok to Moscow while also fighting China and the US
>gets btfo by the far eastern soviet forces
>germans get stalingraded in Moscow
and what'd the japs get even IF they somehow succeded defeating the soviets? barren fricking cold shithole for miles. while the germans got all the breead baskets and oil rigs.
FFS what the frick is wrong with germaboos on this board? expecting people to just go and satisfy their egoistical whims like a bunch of fricking children?
food and some oil. you know, because they were military allies and both actively at war and japan and germany couldnt trade with anyone because their navies were hemmed in
and? do you think the japs would just roll over and accept that the germans got the better piece of the ussr pie?
what about when IF the axis power managed to defeat the allies? surely there's only two power left; the japs and the germans. you think a nation with so much hatred towards what they perceived as "white colonizers" would play buddy-buddy with the germans?
grow up and touch grass. or alternatively, kys.
If Japan attacked the Soviets,Hokkaido would've been Russian today. They didn't have capacity to keep their empire and still go against the Soviets. Without mentioning, their original goal of actually going into war with USA.
You really think the U. S. woukd have just let Japan to dominate the pacific like that? The would have funded lend lease/marshal plan, China to counter Japan eventually.
why did Japan invade China?
didnt happen
China defeated Japan in dozens of major battles and three different times at the single city of Changsha over 5 years with US supporting Japan against China until 1940
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Taierzhuang
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actions_in_Inner_Mongolia_(1933–36)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suiyuan_Campaign
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Sihang_Warehouse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_West_Suiyuan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Wuyuan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Changsha_(1939)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Changsha_(1941)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Changsha_(1942)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Changde
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Suixian%E2%80%93Zaoyang
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_South_Guangxi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kunlun_Pass
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Regiments_Offensive
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Northern_Burma_and_Western_Yunnan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Guangxi_Campaign
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Pingxingguan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_Force
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Suixian–Zaoyang
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_South_Henan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hubei_Operation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Shanggao
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_Japanese_invasion_of_Sichuan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yenangyaung
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_West_Hubei
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mount_Song
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_West_Hunan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Guangxi_campaign
Japan also suffered massive casualties attacking Changde in 1943 and Hengyang in 1944, far more than the Chinese despite outnumbering the Chinese defenders at Hengyang by 90,000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Hengyang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Changde
China annihilated entire Japanese divisions at the battle of Wanjialing when America was fully supplying all of Japan's was materials from 1937-1940
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Wanjialing
>with US supporting Japan
Bull frickin shit
http://web.archive.org/web/20211116143544/https://history.state.gov/milestones/1937-1945/pearl-harbor
https://archive.md/06Qx3
At the outset, U.S. officials viewed developments in China with ambivalence. On the one hand, they opposed Japanese incursions into northeast China and the rise of Japanese militarism in the area, in part because of their sense of a longstanding friendship with China. On the other hand, most U.S. officials believed that it had no vital interests in China worth going to war over with Japan. Moreover, the domestic conflict between Chinese Nationalists and Communists left U.S. policymakers uncertain of success in aiding such an internally divided nation. As a result, few U.S. officials recommended taking a strong stance prior to 1937, and so the United States did little to help China for fear of provoking Japan. U.S. likelihood of providing aid to China increased after July 7, 1937, when Chinese and Japanese forces clashed on the Marco Polo Bridge near Beijing, throwing the two nations into a full-scale war. As the United States watched Japanese forces sweep down the coast and then into the capital of Nanjing, popular opinion swung firmly in favor of the Chinese. Tensions with Japan rose when the Japanese Army bombed the U.S.S. Panay as it evacuated American citizens from Nanjing, killing three. The U.S. Government, however, continued to avoid conflict and accepted an apology and indemnity from the Japanese. An uneasy truce held between the two nations into 1940.
The United States was the main supplier of the oil, steel, iron, and other commodities needed by the Japanese military as it became bogged down by Chinese resistance but, in January, 1940, Japan abrogated the existing treaty of commerce with the United States. Although this did not lead to an immediate embargo,
Japan's true blunder was conquering SEA. They should've focused all their efforts on China and crossed to Central Aisa. This way, a practical alliance with Germany would've been achieved, and total Soviet destruction.
The European colonies in SEA blinded them. Nips were great warriors but shit strategists
Focusing efforts mean jack shit when you don’t have the resources to wage war, which is exactly why they went south.
I might be wrong, but I think China yielded enough. But I guess Japan was mainly a naval empire, so going south was the natural route. No matter how you look at it, they were doomed since the beginning
>Japan's true blunder was conquering SEA. They should've focused all their efforts on China and crossed to Central Aisa.
Fool they focused their efforts on China since 1931, with a full invasion in 1935. When the war in China ground to a stalemate 8 years later in 1939, with a bankrupt Japan & the Army Faction humiliated, the Government began considering the Navy Factions plan and started hitting Southeast Asia. When the Embargos hit, SEAsia became a priority.
Invaded China was a mistake?
You forgot that Japs' military at the time were tribalist as frick. The army wanted to focus on China, but get bogged down in endless quagmire while the Navy which wanted to focus on SEA actually got shits done so the government rolled with them.
It's not like the SEA is completely useless in itself since they have grains, oil, rubber etc. Japan is just too small and they got overstretched way too thin because of their own moronation and tribalism.
it gets even more moronic than that.
By 1940, the Japanese Army was actually suffering a relatively high amount of desertions in China.
even the Japs weren't monolithic robots who never gave up in combat, contrary to popular portrayal. your average Jap soldier was a jap who was treated like a dog by his officers and plopped down in an endless, stagnant grinding quagmire of a war against China he couldn't make any sense out of. the reserve Jap 37th reserve Division, for example, had 750 cases of desertion of enlisted men, 110 of which actually eventually ended up joining the Maoist Red Army.
the Jap Navy was able to get one-up on the Army and made themselves look good in front of an audience with Hirohito once by bringing this up. Hirohito reportedly became noticeably more Pro-Navy in his speaking from that point onwards, often snapping at Army officers with shit like "how can you promise victory over the American army when you've gotten bogged down by chinks for a decade?"
TLDR Japan escalated a bogged-down war with China into a global naval war against America because the Head God-Jap heard a couple hundred of their men surrendered (DISHONORABRU!!!!!!!!!!11111!!!!!!!!)
Japan did focus on China dummy which is why they were forced to invade French Indochina.
Japanese forces were defeated in 1940 in their attempts to conquer all of China (battle of west suiyuan, batte of huaiyang) and lost the battle of Kunlun in Guangxi where they tried to cut China off from French Indochina border since France was the only country that allowed fuel supply into China unlike Britain which sided with Japan and cut off fuel exports into China from British Burma.
Japan was running out of fuel and war material in 1940 despite the US, UK and Netherlands supplying them Japan war material against China from 1937-1940.
Japan stretched to its maximum operational capacity in 1940 and were getting defeated in attempt to conquer all China so they had to invade French Indochina.
>(which unironically no longer existed; they were all just Northern Han)
Wrong. Manchus are a separate ethnicity and mostly lived in Beijing. There's been large amounts of Han geneflow into Manchus, but no Manchu geneflow into Han.
Chiang was focused in a power struggle against right wing KMT rival Hu Hanmin (who hated Japanese ad communists), left wing KMT leader Wang Jingwei and the KMT Guangxi clique of Bai Chongxi and Li Zongren.
Didn’t they know invading French Indochina would lead to economic sanctions by the west?
>no Manchu geneflow into Han.
Ironic, since all the international student northern mutts from urban centres or Beijing and Liaoning studying in Europe and America clearly look like Manchu rapebaby mutts, all your cousins.
Only ones in the countryside look typically Han, when ironically Manchu mutt hands typed your post.
The inner city of Beijing and Shenyang were majority Manchu and Manchu women were mass raped like cattle by Eight nation alliance troops all over Beijing in 1900.
People from Beijing and Lianing who look like Manchus are ethnic Manchu (with Russian rapist and Japanese rapist genes from 1900)
Han in the area have zero Manchu Y chromosomes. The C2 rape Y chromosome spread in the early Qing is only present in ethnic Manchus in Beijing and not a single Han male even in Hebei or Liaoning carries it.
The majority of ethnic Manchus live in Beijing and Liaoning.
Heilongjiang and Jilin are majority Han.
Manchu looking people in Beijing and Liaoning cities like Shenyang (Mukden) are actual Manchus. They are not Han with Manchu admixture, they are Manchus with rapist genes from Japanese during the Boxer rebellion in them. Some Manchus have green or blue eyes from Russian Cossacks raping Manchu women during the same war.
The Germans would't help them much outside of some tech trasnfers wich Japan didn't need because they were actually alredy developing decent tech. What Japan needed the most was resources, and SEA had them, conquering China should have been put on stand by, it was too much to chew. Manchuko was more than enough.
They needed oil. That's it.
what did old manchu armor look like? the qing dynasty stuff was a terrible aesthetic
There's no such thing as "Manchu Armor" since the Qing Dynasty merely used 17th Century Chinese armor.
Their Jurchen ancestors however had the Iron Pagoda, which was the heaviest cavalry in East Asia in the 1100s AD.
reminder that Chiang Kai-Shek both retreated from Manchuria against the Japs without fighting much and was hesitant to retake Manchuria from Communists during the civil war because he held a genuine racism against Manchurians (which unironically no longer existed; they were all just Northern Han)
>they were just northern han
In retrospect, ethnicities in that part of China are kind of stupid lol
It was previously thought that both mongols and manchu and by extension koreans would be separate ethnics but now DNA shows that they already got partial Han ancestry as early as Han dynasty at least
Northern Han slaughtered and raped Manchus in Shanxi and Shaanxi. They were the most anti-Manchu people in China, don't talk as if you know how they think. Manchus were killed in Nanjing and Zhenjiang in the south as well but nothing tops what northern Han did to them.
>Qing
>Manchuria
>coexist
Yeah, whatever morons
how would the candyman handle the manchurian empire?
https://twitter.com/nicholasdeorio/status/1563611026981019648
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9469475/#9469715
Y chromosome confirms it's the same as the original Han 3,000 years ago.
Han Chinese have the same paternal Y chromosome haplogroups as 3,000 years ago and even further back since the Neolithic. Unless barbarian women came and mass raped Han men and added maternal admixture, Han are the same as ancient China.
Y Chromosomes of 40% Chinese Descend from Three Neolithic Super-Grandfathers
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0105691
Ancient DNA Reveals That the Genetic Structure of the Northern Han Chinese Was Shaped Prior to 3,000 Years Ago
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0125676 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235620438_Ancient_DNA_of_Emperor_CAO_Cao%27s_granduncle_matches_those_of_his_present_descendants_a_commentary_on_present_Y_chromosomes_reveal_the_ancestry_of_Emperor_CAO_Cao_of_1800_years_ago
The Manchu-Jurchen paternal C2 subclade haplogroup is competely absent from Han Chinese men. It's only found in Manchus, Mongols and other non-Han ethnic minorities.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4418768/ https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Chuan-Chao_Wang/publication/269876995_Y_Chromosome_of_Aisin_Gioro_the_Imperial_House_of_Qing_Dynasty/links/551cf6240cf2909047bcb445/Y-Chromosome-of-Aisin-Gioro-the-Imperial-House-of-Qing-Dynasty.pdf
>We reasoned that the events leading to the spread of this lineage might have been recorded in the historical record, as well as in the genetic record. The spread must have occurred after the cluster’s TMRCA (∼500 years ago, corresponding to about a.d. 1500) and, most likely, before the Xibe migration in 1764. Notable features are the occurrence of the lineage in seven different populations but its apparent absence from the most populous Chinese ethnic group, the Han.
Hilarious chink cope ITT. No one even knows you fought in ww2 lol.