where does the apple end, what makes anything else not-apple, and why does the apple count as one insted of either many or none,
2 years ago
Anonymous
We have a basic understanding as to what an apple is, both from when it grows from the tree and when it gets plucked
It's not even at the level of Theseus's ship where we're putting together an apple piece by piece or "repairing" an apple, it just comes into existence as one whole thing and everything around it is not attached to it at a molecular level
2 years ago
Anonymous
that's not 1 that's an apple
it happens to be 1 apple, but if i take a pear, it sure as heck isn't the same thing
and yet it's still just 1 pear
midwit bros, he asked for an example in the real world, the noncircular definition was given above
2 years ago
Anonymous
it's not an example in the real world but you're an example of a flaming homosexual !!!
What does it mean to exist to begin with OP? Does batman exist? Does something not exist if we can't talk about it or is this criteria not good enough?
Yes, we make things up and gatekeep everybody so our esoteric shit gets respected by the fool. We mock those who try to challenge our ways and use cult of personality in our favor.
Studying simplectic geometry, my teachers always advice me to make a weekly count of the number of people I humiliated using jackshit of made up nonsense. They always emphasize that we should succomb the common people to some kind of inferiority complex whenever we talk. They have instructed me a ton shit of techniques to use against those we call the 'crank' and how to exploit our high positions to make a fool of them.
We keep throwing dust on your eyes, and you keep stupidly believing our shit. And we drive those who don't to believe against their will.
OP is correct. numbers are simply made up to describe or explain values of real things. you don't see the number 2 in real life. you see a bottle or trees or any other tangible things.
Numbers are basically placeholders that allow you to reason about numerical relationships that apply in the real world, without tying you down to any concrete, real-world objects. I can entertain Platonism as an intellectual exercise, but it boggles my mind that some people take it 100% seriously and have strong feelings about it.
Ahh, the age old question of what mathematics really is, what abstract existence really means...
Humans have wrestled with questions like these (which really belong to philosophy) since the beginning of time.
To say math is "just made up" is also to say that quantity is "just made up". That quantity doesn't really exist-- that it's just an epiphenomenon of whatever deeper mechanism governs the universe.
There are good reasons for both sides of the argument. On one hand, quantum mechanics shows us that the notion of probability and quantization seem to exist at a very deep level in our universe, but on the other hand QM is simply a mathematical model of these things, and who is to say that a meaningfully existent notion of quantity is necessary for any of this to exist? Perhaps it is just an epiphenomenon.
Consider also the origins of human interaction with math, whatever it may be: counting discrete objects. 1 cow, 2 cow... 4 trees, 5 trees... On the macro scale it does appear that this sort of discrete notion of quantity is an epiphenomenon, given that every tree is made up of smaller parts, etc. etc. Now, maybe play around in your head with the idea of the continuity of quantity, as opposed to this discrete quantity, and what that has to say about the universe...
I don't really know where I'm going with this other than to say it looks like either humans have not yet had an individual smart enough to really interface with questions of ontology and epistemology like the existential status of math with any substance, or humans are simply unable to gain any knowledge at all about these questions, which is why there has been little definitive development on any question like this. It's in the same league of questions like "why is there something rather than nothing?", "does existence imply a god?", "why are natural constants the values they are?"-- questions apparently unassailable by both science and broader human inquiry.
the question is whether or not maths are invented or maths are discovered
dude above says the latter with something as silly as > you can find 1 in nature because 1 apple
at least people like Frank Chester try harder than this
I don't think math is "logic written down" any more than google maps directions are "logic written down". Both of them involve rules that one must analyze logically, but neither is fundamentally more logical than the other.
if everything is just made up then why did you get so mad at me for fricking your mom? can we at least have some congruency here
Of course they exist. The entire universe is based around numbers. We didn't make them up, we just made up the names for them.
>The entire universe is based around numbers.
not op but this just does not seem true, why so many people say this
Give a noncircular definition of 1. Then show me a real life 1.
>Give a noncircular definition of 1.
the empty set's singleton
>real life 1
1 apple
But we can divide an apple into 3 pieces, which we can't do for 1, so 1=/=1 in this case
>which we can't do for 1
seems like you know what one is. Otherwise you would not be able to declare that which is NOT one. How are you doing that?
1/3
braunlet
where does the apple end, what makes anything else not-apple, and why does the apple count as one insted of either many or none,
We have a basic understanding as to what an apple is, both from when it grows from the tree and when it gets plucked
It's not even at the level of Theseus's ship where we're putting together an apple piece by piece or "repairing" an apple, it just comes into existence as one whole thing and everything around it is not attached to it at a molecular level
midwit bros, he asked for an example in the real world, the noncircular definition was given above
it's not an example in the real world but you're an example of a flaming homosexual !!!
that's not 1 that's an apple
it happens to be 1 apple, but if i take a pear, it sure as heck isn't the same thing
and yet it's still just 1 pear
What does it mean to exist to begin with OP? Does batman exist? Does something not exist if we can't talk about it or is this criteria not good enough?
and?
words are also made up
culture is also made up
feelings are also made up
thoughts are also made up
morality is also made up
religion is also made up
name one (1) thing that isn't made up
rock
made up
Your mother's love for my wiener
Yes, we make things up and gatekeep everybody so our esoteric shit gets respected by the fool. We mock those who try to challenge our ways and use cult of personality in our favor.
Studying simplectic geometry, my teachers always advice me to make a weekly count of the number of people I humiliated using jackshit of made up nonsense. They always emphasize that we should succomb the common people to some kind of inferiority complex whenever we talk. They have instructed me a ton shit of techniques to use against those we call the 'crank' and how to exploit our high positions to make a fool of them.
We keep throwing dust on your eyes, and you keep stupidly believing our shit. And we drive those who don't to believe against their will.
pi is the only integer
Letters don't exist.
Language is just made up stuff.
Notation is made up. Math exists on its own, objectively.
OP is correct. numbers are simply made up to describe or explain values of real things. you don't see the number 2 in real life. you see a bottle or trees or any other tangible things.
Numbers are basically placeholders that allow you to reason about numerical relationships that apply in the real world, without tying you down to any concrete, real-world objects. I can entertain Platonism as an intellectual exercise, but it boggles my mind that some people take it 100% seriously and have strong feelings about it.
yea but its useful
ITT: GPTs trying to do philosophy of mathematics.
this guy is 1 homosexual. i wouldn't call him 1 apple !!!
Ahh, the age old question of what mathematics really is, what abstract existence really means...
Humans have wrestled with questions like these (which really belong to philosophy) since the beginning of time.
To say math is "just made up" is also to say that quantity is "just made up". That quantity doesn't really exist-- that it's just an epiphenomenon of whatever deeper mechanism governs the universe.
There are good reasons for both sides of the argument. On one hand, quantum mechanics shows us that the notion of probability and quantization seem to exist at a very deep level in our universe, but on the other hand QM is simply a mathematical model of these things, and who is to say that a meaningfully existent notion of quantity is necessary for any of this to exist? Perhaps it is just an epiphenomenon.
Consider also the origins of human interaction with math, whatever it may be: counting discrete objects. 1 cow, 2 cow... 4 trees, 5 trees... On the macro scale it does appear that this sort of discrete notion of quantity is an epiphenomenon, given that every tree is made up of smaller parts, etc. etc. Now, maybe play around in your head with the idea of the continuity of quantity, as opposed to this discrete quantity, and what that has to say about the universe...
I don't really know where I'm going with this other than to say it looks like either humans have not yet had an individual smart enough to really interface with questions of ontology and epistemology like the existential status of math with any substance, or humans are simply unable to gain any knowledge at all about these questions, which is why there has been little definitive development on any question like this. It's in the same league of questions like "why is there something rather than nothing?", "does existence imply a god?", "why are natural constants the values they are?"-- questions apparently unassailable by both science and broader human inquiry.
Words do not exist either.
All written language is just made up stuff as well.
>ITT people getting triggered because they are conflating "existence" and "real" with "objective"
You need numbers to be real like the grass outside is real for statements about numbers to be objectively correct.
Like, Sherlock holmes is not real, but it is objectively correct that he is a detective.
the question is whether or not maths are invented or maths are discovered
dude above says the latter with something as silly as
> you can find 1 in nature because 1 apple
at least people like Frank Chester try harder than this
I agree that is silly.
Unironic moron cope
1 atom
1 particle
1 string
Math is logic written down. Math is the human understending of the world.
It comes from simple stuff like 1+1=2 and humans built on that.
So if it comes to physics then math is our understanding of it, but numbers do not float around. Yet there is logic to it.
This might be the reason why we can't really comprehend quantum physics, our logic/math is not enough for it. Maybe it will be in time.
I don't think math is "logic written down" any more than google maps directions are "logic written down". Both of them involve rules that one must analyze logically, but neither is fundamentally more logical than the other.
>understend
Lol
That's like saying that race is made up
Let's put it this way, if aliens devised their own math system, there's a pretty damn good chance that it'll look somewhat similar to ours