people often say that "the greeks were gay" and point to homosexual instances between people as evidence to support this
if this were a fact, wouldn't it also be true to say that modern americans are gay? evidence being the orders of magnitude higher amount of instances of homosexuality among its people?
IQfy related because of ancient greece of course
 |
 It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
|
Greeks tolerated pederasty for a brief periof so homosexuality = pedophilia, literally
what about the sacred band of thebes?
There are two sentences in Plutarch (who lived about 500 years after the fact) about that and even then, think about it. How many hyper effective mercenaries have been 100 percent homosexuals?
Even during the pederastic period, men who had been penetrated / against their will or otherwise were barred from voting and citizenry. It was also the death penalty in Athens to pork a free man sons butt. So , their level of gay is totally misrepresented by the media. They even had a slur for gays called kinaidos.
Pederasty amongst Greek men and as a "rite of passage" of sorts to bring young men into Greek society was definitely far more normal than it is in the U.S.
this also isn't literature though, so go read a book
>pedophilia is normal
Lol ok pedo
classic IQfy reading comprehension moment
Normal as in common or typical, not as in a good standard.
Yes. It was normal here too.
We used to be a real country.
>was definitely far more normal than it is in the U.S.
lol he doesn't know about the secret parties that the wealthy take part in
emphasis on SECRET because it being KNOWN is NOT ACCEPTABLE
it's still normal among the wealthy class, the only difference now is that the common class isn't fully aware of it
that is literally the only difference
but if they were fully aware of it, do you honestly think they would actually do anything to stop it? think about it - where do you think those kids come from? the child production factory?
their own parents give them up
>do you honestly think they would actually do anything to stop it?
Yes, pedophilia is the biggest taboo in our society. Don't believe me? Tell your co-workers that you want to frick a kid, as an experiment. See how they react.
Tell them how you are gay and got fricked by a way older dude when you were a teen and watch them not care in the slightest.
rewind time five seconds after telling them and then tell them about the time you called a black man a Black person after he cut you off on the highway. compare and contrast the reactions.
It was at some point vaguely accepted but getting buttfricked was not, at any point, a rite of passage.
Even plato, who never even claimed pederastry had to involve sex, walked back later in life and admitted that adding sex to it was kinda gross
Pederasty was a master/apprentice relationship and was never intended to include sex. It was criticized by Ancient Greeks that fricking a child in your care was immoral, but the wealthy Athenians did it anyway.
Plato even has a section in Symposium where he describes parents hiding their children from the wealthy for fear that they would be manipulated and essentially kidnapped by extremely rich homosexual pedophiles.
It was only an upper class Athenian thing.
Nah, the Spartans did it too
deboonked by Xenophon
>I think I ought to say something also about intimacy with boys, since this matter also has a bearing on education. In other Greek states, for instance among the Boeotians, man and boy live together, like married people;5 elsewhere, among the Eleians, for example, consent is won by means of favours. Some, on the other hand, entirely forbid suitors to talk with boys. [13]
>The customs instituted by Lycurgus were opposed to all of these. If someone, being himself an honest man, admired a boy's soul and tried to make of him an ideal friend without reproach and to associate with him, he approved, and believed in the excellence of this kind of training. But if it was clear that the attraction lay in the boy's outward beauty, he banned the connexion as an abomination; and thus he caused lovers to abstain from boys no less than parents abstain from sexual intercourse with their children and brothers and sisters with each other. [14]
>I am not surprised, however, that people refuse to believe this. For in many states the laws are not opposed to the indulgence of these appetites.
The full quote. Draw your own conclusions as to what this says about the assertion that it was "an upper-class Athenian thing".
the quote literally say that they(Spartans) despised it when it was a carnal thing instead of a part of paideia, are you moronic?
I'm not the guy you replied to. I'm aware that that it says that. Just thought it was worth pointing out that Xenophon emphatically does NOT support the initial statement about its having been only practiced by the upper class in Athens.
ok but I replied specifically about Spartans
Yes, I'm aware. I was assuming that there might be someone out there following the entire discussion, in all its erudite glory, for whom the added context might be enlightening. That's why I specifically added that its relevance was in relation to that initial post's statement. No one is saying you're wrong about what Xenophon said about Sparta.
I just finished reading Xenophon, and it wasn't just the Spartans or just the Athenians, it was ALL THE "Greeks", including the Persians that had specific references gay references.
Gays have always existed and the ancient world doesn't seem to have been overly bothered by it, but accepted it as natural (natural in the sense that it occurred frequently).
It seems only to have later been made taboo by Abrahamic demon cults.
>Anti-Christian is gay and promotes homosexuality
Every time
>Christian thinks anti-Abrahamic means that only Christianity is being targeted
Every time.
Most old religions were just warlord cults whose "moral values" were instilled to promote war-like behavior. Over time these evolved into Abrahamic religions (as well as others, but i doubt you're interested in anything else). That's why there's so many similarities between Canaanite, Babylonian, Chaldean, Egyptian, Greek, etc. cults and Abrahamic cults, they all borrowed and mimicked each other.
>Edgy tard pretends to know about how religions from 1000 BC worked because he read a book written by a israelite
Every time
>if you're anti-Abrahamic then you're anti-Christian
>you israelite!
lol, every time.
helpful hint for you, israelites are Abrahamic, so i'm sure you can understand how utterly ridiculous you look when you claim to be abrahamic and yet can't resist trashing the founders of your desert warlord blood cult 🙂
Did Assman or Freud teach you that?
>Jews aren't Abrahamic
>bUt tHE cHRisTiANs ARe!
Did Trump or Hitler teach you that?
purr
>Still is a homosexual
Uhuh
>still obsessing about gays from within the confines of the closet
Uhuh
You don't get it. I think both the Greeks had buttsecks AND that all modern americans are superdupergay. You do you sweaty go gurl. rawr
you don't get it. I know the greeks and modern world has buttsecks. I also think you're clearly a closet case gay guy (which is okay with me, btw) because you CLEARLY obsess about "the gay issue" more than normal heterosexual people do.
Heterosexual people have gfs and wives, which clearly you don't have one, because if you did you wouldn't spend so much time online obsessing about how men are having sex with each other lol.
Come out of the closet gurl, or don't, and sweat in the closet.
Yes I am so I want to ask you, who defend people like me, out on a date.
Why else would you be so fervent about evil abrahamoids ruining that culture.
I don't really get it, the israelites ARE part of the Abrahamic trilogy of religions, how is that an inflammatory comment in any way?
there are a LOT of stupid religious people, stupid people tend to flock to religions. That's why they're constantly attacking each other (even killing each other) for believing basically the same thing as they do.
I assumed at first it was a pagan-tard doing the usual “israeli God Abrahamist” larping before I realized it was a discord troony
>I just totally finished reading Xenophon, the guy who said Spartans abhorred the relationship if it was carnal and some other city states did too, ALL Greeks were gay
lol, did just read Hellenika, and then before that i was Thucydides "History of the Peloponnesian War" (and even that had some gay references).
Would you like me to break out the book and quote some? I marked some of the gay passages for closeted gays like you, so it won't take me that long.
should've read specifically the constitution of the Spartans then, where he goes specifically into details about the matter, see
but please, go ahead mutant
don't you get sweaty in that closet?
Refuting actual text from the Greeks with a footnote? Interesting strategy
oh sweetie, i told you there was more coming. But it's hilarious how footnotes that explain context are suddenly frowned on, when earlier in the thread some homophobe was bringing up "context of the times" as an argument lol
But don't worry, i have more screenshots of the book that flat out say gay sex was considered normal.
More of what? Conjecture and nonsense from “academics”. Im sure you will convince a lot of people the Greeks were gay lmao
>nonsense from "academics"
say you're low iq without saying you're low iq. LOL
define normal as pertaining to the Greeks
as expected from deformed bioleninist cattle, none of the quotes even remotely talk about homosexual activity, and as demonstrated above, by Law, in Sparta the erastes wasn't supposed to show carnal interest in the eromenos
>BY LAW
actual life takes precedence over "laws". Oh i'm sure there were homophobes back then who tried to stem the tide of NATURAL inclinations, but you can't stop Nature, even with silly laws.
>actual life takes precedence over "laws"
meaningless ugly quasimodo babble
>i'm too low iq to understand what you're talking about
then i'll make airplane noises as i try to explain it to you in simpler terms.
You saying that "Law" proves something, i'm saying that it doesn't. You don't even have to make something a "law" if people aren't engaging in said practice. Gays have existed since ancient times, and it was considered NATURAL. Your "law" doesn't alter that fact. If Nature didn't want gays to exist, then Nature wouldn't produce gays, it's that simple. Your "laws" aren't even natural laws, they're just arbitrary man-made laws.
define natural
anything that occurs in nature.
For example, Tornadoes are natural, even if someone was stupid enough to try to pass a law that banned tornadoes.
yes pedophiles are naturally occurring, and still occurs even when laws are passed "banning pedophilia".
The difference though is that mutually consensual gay sex between two adults is a different scenario than predatory sex between an pedophile adult and an unconsenting child.
Though funnily enough, abrahamic demonic cults are totally okay with pedophilia, just so long as the child is a girl and the pedophile is a male.
define predatory sex, define consent, explain the difference between mutually consensual gay sex and non consensual pedophilia. Reasoning must be based on natural laws btw.
>define predatory sex and consent
okay so you're a literal pedophile. My question is why would you attack gay people in some bid to get pedophilia legalized?
Children are considered too stupid to give consent, and while adults are often stupid too, children really do warrant that stereotype. Just look at all those kids eating tidepods, or basing their sense of self-worth on whether they own a Stanley cup or not.
Laws have hence been passed in an attempt to protect children from pedophiles like you. Even though a child thinks they can "give consent", society has passed laws to prevent them from being taken advantage of by creeps like you.
Two gay adults having buttsex is far less destructive to society than pedophile creeps like you.
>Uses pederasty to showcase gay sex was normal
>No u are the pedophile
I dont advocate for natural laws, you do.
>If Nature didn't want gays to exist, then Nature wouldn't produce gays, it's that simple
So pedophiles must be natural.
Now lets see at what you have to say.
>Children are considered too stupid to give consent, and while adults are often stupid too, children really do warrant that stereotype. Just look at all those kids eating tidepods, or basing their sense of self-worth on whether they own a Stanley cup or not.
Not based on natural laws, just based on current cultural observations.
Oh the rest is just "NO U" coping. uhuh let me remind you you are all for natural laws and how natural laws should form the definitions of normality.
Sounds like you don't care about natural laws, only about buttsex
i wasn't advocating for natural laws, i just said that laws being in place doesn't mean Nature just gets erased.
The difference is that adult gays isn't destructive to society/children like pedophilia is.
>The difference is that adult gays isn't destructive to society/children like pedophilia is.
Read about the bacchuscultus.
That being said, noone denied it being natural, just like pedophiles, but the natural wasn't commonly displayed. We all agree till this point, the real question is thus: "How common was it for nature's rejects to show their behaviour in public, especially with all these laws against them, in times where violence was far more prevalent."
>that being said, no one denied it being natural
maybe not in this thread, i admit i didn't read the whole thread.
But it absolutely has been argued elsewhere that "gays are unnatural", the argument being that since gays don't reproduce like heterosexuals that therefore it's "not natural". But that's a twisting of the word "natural", since not all things in Nature reproduce, and even animals have been documented to have gay sex/relationships.
>how common was it for nature's rejects to show their behavior in public
apparently it was common enough that people like Xenophon wrote about it quite casually, like it was commonplace.
Yes and then, common between which participants?
Im gonna shower actually, consider this chain forlorn
bacchus cults, you mean like the orgies in the woods at night? what about them? or do you mean the supposed tearing apart of certain men during those orgies? How about you just say what it is you want me to learn about bacchus cults that is relevant to the conversation instead of just saying "research X" and having me guess at what it is you want me to learn
Incidentally, i'm pretty much against all religions, ancient or otherwise. I've studied enough comparative religions and mythologies to realize that they're extremely muddled with each other, there's nothing unique about any of them, Abrahamics drew on other religions, Greeks did too, so on and so forth. I sorta just lump them all in with each other since they're nothing that really separates them from each other 100%. Abrahamics engaged in blood sacrifices just like the "evil satanic cults of Canaan and Babylon". While i'm definitely open to the idea of a Creator/Creatrix of some sort, i'm not in any shape or form convinced that any of the religions "got it right".
Also lol
>Even though a child thinks they can "give consent", society has passed laws to prevent them from being taken advantage of by creeps like you.
How is this based on natural laws. Your argument falls apart.
>we need to ban gays because LAWS
>we need to legalize pedophilia because natural law
lol. Make up your mind. You claim you're about natural laws and want to make the argument that pedophilia is "natural", and then in the same breath attack gays even though gays are natural too.
I never said I was for natural laws lol, go read again you silly billy. If anything I don't think Nature tm being a thing should count for anything when it comes to society and culture.
>i don't think Nature should count for anything when it comes to society and culture
except that even with the anti-Nature crowd (i.e. Abrahamic religious cultists) it's still very much a thing, since they wouldn't bring up how "unnatural" gays are (because they can't have reproduce and have children of their own).
It's difficult to be 100% anti-Nature when we (including you) EXIST IN NATURE 100%.
Read
but also
>Though funnily enough, abrahamic demonic cults are totally okay with pedophilia, just so long as the child is a girl and the pedophile is a male.
got a problem with men seeking younger women, roastie?
>younger women
not at all, "younger women" is very different from pedophilia, which is what i was talking about. And with that i do have a problem, especially when that same crowd advocating literal pedophilia tries to condemn homosexuality (between adults) and hilariously tries to lump all homosexuals as pedophiles! lol
Talk about major hypocrisy.
both are bad, problem?
homosexuality isn't a problem though. Pedophilia is though.
both are
no, homosexuality isn't a problem at all. Consenting adults having sex isn't anything to worry about.
But adults who prey on children is definitely a problem.
that's completely false. Plenty of gays were never molested as children.
it is a problem, just not to you because you are biased. problem?
it's not a problem. You're saying it's a problem but not even stating in what it's a problem. Societies still function with gay people in them. Gays can still fight in wars. There's literally no problem.
read Hispala and Aebutius. and yes they are a problem. problem?
>read this and this
no.
So how exactly is homosexuality a problem?
Now religion on the other hand IS a problem. All it does is trick otherwise decent people into hating other people, even to the point where they're willing to kill someone else just for "believing in the wrong god", or for being the wrong color of skin, or for loving the wrong gender. Abrahamic religions need to be banned.
im not abrahamic so cease the schizojerking
they are a problem but you wouldnt accept these problems as problems because you are biased. also why you wont read about gays being a problem. read Hispala and Aebutius.
tldr; gays are a problem. problem?
>you are biased.
you're biased too. And unable to even state how homosexuality is a problem, which proves that even you don't actually think it's a problem.
You're clearly a closeted gay guy that absorbed all the self-loathing from Abrahamic blood cults.
im not biased, unlike you. i have no stake at gays being good or bad. they just are bad. you do have a stake at gays being good though, it seems.
problem?
>i'm not biased.
yes you are 🙂
>they're just bad, i don't even have a reason why they're bad, they just are.
you argue like a 5 year old.
Have fun being a closeted gay guy 🙂
no im just right. but thanks for showing how this is one of many reasons why gays are a problem, not to mention them being like other adults should include how they get diseases far more than anyone else. they are like you and me but diseased.
tldr; gays are bad. problem?
*thanks for not mentiong the abrahamic schizo stuff, it took real courage
>they get diseases more than other adults
finally, the third worlder gives a reason why he thinks homosexuality is wrong.
Of course, he's still wrong, but at least he can finally articulate his reasoning!
Straight people get just as many STDs as gays, so per your own logic we should ban heterosexual sex too 🙂
>abrahamic mentioning doesnt work
>esl mentioning started
gays are bad, and useless to society. problem?
>and useless to society
gays contribute just as much to society as anyone else, so once again your argument is hollow 🙂
There's other ways to contribute to society than just having children.
also, i said to cease the abrahamic schizoposting lol, i wish for lurkers to see me talking to an opponent who doesnt look too mentally unwell
>who doesn't look too mentally unwell
i'd like for the lurkers to see how poorly this third worlder speaks english
>you are esl
correct english however, im sorry to say this but the aids has riddled your brain
AIDS is far more common in non-english speaking countries, like Russia for example.
and your english sucks btw
>russia
because they are gay. you just aren't smart enough to notice correct english usage, because aids has rotted your brain. problem?
they are useless and exceptions don't make the rule. gays are still bad and useless. problem?
>you just aren't smart enough to notice correct english usage
>i wish for lurkers to see me talking to an opponent who doesn't look too mentally unwell
>who doesn't look too mentally unwell
you're the one with aids apparently 🙂
that's correct english. thanks for affirming aids (relatively speaking a gay problem) is bad. like gays. problem?
>relatively speaking a gay problem
FAR MORE straight people have aids. So, "relatively speaking", aids is a straight problem.
And actually, that's incorrect english 🙂 You're welcome for the free english lesson, thirdworlder
>what is per capita
and it is correct english, you just don't know any better. ive made actual english mistakes here and there on purpose to see if you noticed but you didn't 🙁 because aids has rotted your brain.
problem?
i'm not too nitpicky when it comes to perfect grammar or spelling, but saying "who doesn't look too mentally unwell" has the literal opposite meaning of what you intended lol
a common thirdworlder wannabe white mistake to make
no it doesnt, i want to speak to someone "who does not look too mentally unwell"
Dam dude you keep getting btfo its actually embarrassing
i wish he noticed the actual mistake in this one
>exceptions don't make the rule
says the thirdworlder that makes the same anti-gay threads day in and day out for YEARS in a vain attempt to sway public opinion in the West. 🙂
LOL
i am the supposed third worlder that guy isnt
>there's only one third worlder
see that's where you're wrong
no it just makes you look like a schizo who cant stop talking about abrahamisms and brown people in dire attempts to defend gay "people"
>racism is good
>stop making fun of brown people!
>i'm not abrahamic, i just have the same beliefs and morality as they do!
lmao, you thirdworlders are hilarious.
never said anything about racism, never said anything about brown people, never said anything about abrahamity. you are mentally unwell and i wish you didnt seem too mentally unwell. you have no way to defend gay people without these three.
gaybros.... are bad. problem?
>you are mentally unwell
says the guy that obsesses about how complete strangers choose to have consensual sex.
YOU are mentally unwell. Stop worrying so much about how others are different from you and just focus on living your own life. You sound really unhappy with your life. Get a gf/bf at the very least.
i am not gay so it doesn't apply to me. sirrah, aids has rotten thinestee braineth. gays are bad and like grass, it should be cut before it grows too tall. problem?
>i'm not gay, i just obsess about men having sex with each other. Totally not gay here.
riiiiight
this doesnt work you know. gays are bad though. problem?
also, be honest, are you yourself gay or not? genuinely curious, i wont even use it as inspiration for a witty retort.
be honest, you're a closeted gay man, aren't you? Normal straight people just get a gf/wife and enjoy their own lives. Only closeted gay dudes go online and spend their lives obsessing about other men having sex with each other.
that line of reasoning doesnt work and im surprised people still use it. gays are bad though. problem?
but just between you and me, not even asking if you are gay the same way you are. i mean come on man it cant be another straight man going at me like this. would be funny though.
>my english are bad, problem? You gay? me wanna know you gay if because me looking. Problem?
giving third worlders the internet was a mistake
>you are brown
here you go again. as if it would even help your argument that gays arent bad lmao. problem? anyway i bet you are gay though, like i said i wont even make fun of you for it like you would.
Everyone already hates them thoufh and is just waiting for the day the liberal police state falls so we can hang them. They also know this is the case which is why they constantly hide behind police and the media pushes gay propaganda 24/7
>is just waiting for the day the liberal police state falls
so you're basically saying you're too much of a coward to do anything against people you hate because you might get in trouble? LOL, what an effeminate way to behave, thirdworlder
Just tactical. Their time will come. I also think the self-desrtuctive and painful lives of the average gay is punishment enough tbh.
>i'm only tactically a coward
lol. Keep seething coward
So was it your uncle that touched you or someone else?
stop it with your pedophilic fantasies, creep
Is your bum still sore?
there you go again, fantasizing about another dudes bum, lol
just get a bf already you closeted gay man you! you'll be much happier and won't feel the need to spend all day on IQfy
I'm gay and I spend all day on IQfy.
FYI, a lot of guys I know, especially bottoms experienced abuse as a kid / sexual abuse. I don't know why so many gay men can't admit it.
most gays fear such news influencing society into viewing them as reprobates again. it makes sense tbdesu
>i'm gay
yes, i've been saying that this whole time. It's pretty obvious.
>you are brown
actually i called you a thirdworlder, not brown. I don't have any problem with skin color, just with thirdworld mentalities like yours. Russians are white (or close enough) and still act like thirdworlders, as an example.
forgot to mention me. you have no case without calling me a foreigner. even with you dont have one but i digress. gays are still a problem. problem?
you being a foreigner isn't pivotal to my case, it's just apparent that english is not your first language since you speak it so horribly.
Gays aren't a problem. Problem?
gays are a problem. problem? read hispala and aebutius. it's really short so it should be doable for your aids brain.
I'm a different anon to whoever you've been arguing with.
Eh, I don't care if we're deemed "reprobates" I'd rather be honest about what happened to me and others.
yes but the fear is not the labelling, it's the potential slideback into a society where gay behaviour is not deemed appropriate anymore. perhaps even punishable. i have a gay friend who hates pride parades and most lgbt culture but who doesn't openly oppose it because it's better than living in a society that doesn't accept him. he also got abused as a teen btw.
>We need to protect the gay pedos who gave me a mental illness because otherwise straights might not let me pound male ass until I die at age 35!
mental illness
Pedophile protector
No, i didnt protect gay people. I just explained why gay people dont talk about their rapists, or any other gay problem, like straight people do. Your aids has riddled your brain with holes.
>your aids has riddled your brain with holes
lol, this thirdworlder still thinks we live in the 80s or 90s.
Newsflash thirdworlder, aids isn't a death sentence in the West (though it prolly still is in whatever craphole you live in).
gays are bad. problem?
pedophiles are bad. problem?
Still, almost every gay man I know had someone like that in his past or was groomed. I don't even care about the optics, it's just I do think people should know this happens.
something like 3 out of 4 girls has been molested as a child.
The problem isn't homosexuality, the problem is pedophilia.
Lol cmon now we all know thats not true
i can't remember the exact rate, but it was very high, and much higher than the rate of young boys being molested. For boys it was like 1 in 10, for girls it was 3 in 4 (or 3 in 5?)
Not those anons but abuse cases are underreported, especially when the victims are male.
abuse cases are also underreported with girls. Because it's usually FAMILY members (or friends of family) and usually no one wants others to know they were raped/molested.
Yes, i know. In our current society however, there's more of a stigma around being a male victim.
that's just toxic male machismo. It's equally wrong whether the victim (or perpetrator) is male or female.
And again, the issue isn't homosexuality, the issue is pedophilia.
Don't victim blame lol, that's exactly why survivors don't tell their story. I only said something about your numbers not being true.
>your numbers arent true
they're close enough. And i wasn't victim blaming. Are you high?
>Close enough
You multiplied the correct rate by 3x lol no they weren’t close enough
>that's just toxic male machismo
Or were you attacking me for stating the thing about the numbers not being true. Close enough isn't really true btw.
i think i may have gotten my numbers from women of all ages, which is definitely higher than little girls.
But just researched the numbers and little girls still have a higher rate of being molested than little boys. (which makes sense since on a worldwide scale, older men takiing advantage of little girls is part of the culture or religion, like Christianity, Islam or Judaism)
>as is reported
it's ALWAYS underreported.
Wait a sec, are you trying to suggest that more little boys are molested than little girls? Because on that i KNOW you'd be wrong, because i researched into that subject about a year ago and the results were ridiculously skewed towards girls being molested by older men FAR MORE than little boys being molested by older gay men. (which makes sense because gays are such a smaller portion of the total population)
Dude did a lot of reasearch on pedophiles. I wonder why….
So you were totally wrong and now want to shift topics. Dam dude im sure you one over a ton of people to your side toda
insane deflection happened today. most of it being from the "you shouldnt look at the greeks with your religious goggles" camp.
anyway yes OP, americans are gay af and worship gay culture. ESPECIALLY, when compared to the very super duper gay or the zero gaysex allowed Gayreeks (doesnt matter)
americans don't worship gay culture, they just tolerate gays. That's literally it.
>dude did a lot of research on pedophiles, i wonder why....
because people on /misc/ were making the claim that gays were all pedophiles, and that more boys were being molested than girls were. So i researched it and it was no comparison, far more girls were being molested (because there more straight people, duh).
So then the argument devolved to "well gays molest at a higher rate than straight pedophiles" and that turned out to be false too. (Another "duh!" moment, because many places around the world literally condone older men marrying little girls, even places in the US still do this, and it's very common in other places around the world)
Sounds like you are obsessed with pedophiles, I wonder why….
Normal people don’t think about pedophiles this much unless they have latent desires themselves….
>sounds like you are obsessed with pedophiles, i wonder why...
meanwhile you're obsessing about gay people....
>and all gays are pedophiles!
so you're a gay pedophile then?
I was trying to defend gay people, that's why i researched all that. Meanwhile you're attacking gay people for no reason and defending pedophiles, i wonder why....
Cope. Just come out of the closet as a pedo bro we can all tell by your obsession with them.
they worship gay culture though. its the only country with big cities known as gay capitals, the only exporter of the stereotypical gay culture. gays in amsterdam will have the san fran accent.
There is no tolerating gayness, there is open support. be glad!
what did you expect lol.
more straight people live in "big city gay capitals" and they don't sound gay. Only a small subset of gays actually sound "gay".
>gays in Amsterdam
so what are you, a muslim living in the "gay West"?
straight people live there sure, thats reality, they do worship gays though. you dont need to be god to worship god. you dont need to be a gay to worship gay. so what are you? a gay from san fran?
>they do worship gays though
except that they don't. They just tolerate them better than thirdworlders do. What are you a thirdworlder living in the "decadent West" because your own homeland sucks balls?
nah they worship them, i should know, i am a gay pedophile from san fran, and like every other gay, i am a predator. I used to be in the san fransisco gay men choir but got out before the whole gay pedophile scandal 😉 Slaaayyyy
the depths that homophobic thirdworlders will sink to just to "win" an argument lol
i used ai for lots of the "problem?" posts btw, just so you know. anyway dont get arrested you gay pedophile (tautological, i know)
>i have to use a machine to talk for me because i'm too low iq to hold an actual debate
typical thirdworlder
no you just seemed volatile so i wanted to test my program on you. i dont even know anything about the greeks, this was fun though thankyou
oh okay, well your program sucks then. It gave subpar responses and isn't very flexible with its responses. Problem?
no it performed quite well, it exceeded expectations actually. you'll see more of this soon I'm sure.
no i really doubt i will since i'm hardly ever on here (or forums at all for that matter).
but grats on the crappy ai programming
its goal was engagement and baiting replies. dont samegay though, it doesnt suit you and you already got your point across. anyway expect more of this soon
>cops tell homeless guy to stop shitting in the street
>”oh you don’t like when i do that, huh? Well guess what, there’s more where that came from!”
Wow, positively Jokeresque
the ai program has no feelings sir
>my goal was to create an ai program that speaks thirdworlder english and doesn't convince anyone because its reasoning skills are so bad
>SUCCESS!
Every time these trannies come here they view everything as a grand debate where they are taking on the evil chuds with FACTS and LOGIC. No one is really interested in arguing with a zealous homosexual its pretty obvious most people have been trolling you the whole time. Seethe, dilate, etc
the only people getting trolled are the homophobes that waste YEARS OF THEIR LIFE making the same threads on IQfy every day.
Seriously, get a life. I wasted half a day, but you've wasted YEARS.
Sure it totally doesn’t seem like your whole life is battling shitposting chuds. Didn’t you earlier admit to doing vigorous pedophile research to own /misc/ lmao. Sounds like you have an active social life
>didn't you earlier admit to doing research?
yea, and i also said it was a year ago. Unlike you who lives on here 🙂 Have fun mr closeted gay man
See you tomorrow!
you're right, this place is filled with moronic bait posting ai.
Thanks for convincing me to delete IQfy forums from my bookmarked sites 🙂
See you tomorrow!
tomorrow is yesterday, problem? Denigrated theses returned into convalescent teamsters
>It's all bots, I'm not crazy - they're trying to influence me!
>affluent licenses emigrated into eternal nothingnesses, but no, it is alas the end of all fecundities
no it's true I ran a program and it kept him busy as you can see. the posts where i ask him to stop using some terms are where i stepped in but otherwise it ran quite nicely on its own.
initial iniquities deflect downward to totalitarian succumbing societies.
>Quit molesting kids
>You must be a gay man
Interdasting
Lmao you just admitted you “wasted half a day” vigorously researching pedos and homos while I was shitposting on the job, something I doubt you have. See you bright and early tomorrow friend.
>while i was shitposting on the job
you're not supposed to admit that part out loud. You must be really irked to have slipped on that lol
>you were totally wrong
not totally, but i did get my numbers not exactly right, though my point still is correct: that girls are molested in far greater numbers than boys.
And unlike many on IQfy, i'm okay with admitting where i've been wrong. And i wasn't shifting topics at all, we're still talking about the same topic. 🙂
not really, this whole thread is about the American gayness compared to Greek pederasty
?
Maybe in Israel but its not even close to that in America.
https://uwjoshuacenter.org/how-common-child-sexual-abuse#:~:text=Estimates%20of%20CSA%20prevalence%20in,experience%20CSA%20at%20some%20point.
Yea I know. I can't really name one gay person who wasn't. I recently watched a documentary about this triathlon gold medallist who got raped by his dad's friend. He said he struggled with gay thoughts for years and wanted to kill himself. A lot of therapy groups aimed at sexual abuse treatment don't even know how to handle homosexual cases. It's quite sad.
>i don't care if we're deemed reprobates
the problem isn't homosexuality in the situation you're describing, the problem is pedophilia.
Little girls get molested and raped by older men even more frequently than little boys do. Most of them don't turn out lesbian, just as most little boys that get molested don't turn out gay.
The issue isn't homosexuality, the issue is pedophilia.
>same sex pedophilia compared to heterosexual pedophilia
apples and oranges.
>straight pedophilia is okay, but gay pedophilia isn't
you pedophiles always out yourself eventually lol.
So is it sore or not? Stop teasing
get a bf and stop being a hypocritical homophobe.
Im sure this line will be funny the 50th time you use it lol. Its ok to just log off when you are shown to have not read the Greeks.
>when you are shown to have not read the Greeks
probably read more greek stuff than you, third worlder.
so what country are you from?
ayo not fricking around this time, just between homies, but are you gay? not even asking in the "you are closeted" way like you've been doing. just genuinely curious.
are you even white and American/European? You seriously give off hardcore Middle-Eastern or Russian vibes.
would it give any credit to your argument. would it help your argument that gays arent bad in any way? lol first it was the abraham nonsense now this. i wish you did correctly identify me. anyway, gay or nah?
>Societies still function with gay people in them
Lol societies function with racism too, they actually function better, but I bet you think that is a problem
>societies function better when one half the population hates the other half
you're just a hateful person that is unhappy with your own life, and so decides to blame your problems on other people. 🙂
So you admit that there are things which are bad but yet society can still function with? Thank you, now lets get back to talking about how every homosexual was molested by an older vampire gay
>so you admit that there are things which are bad
homosexuality isn't bad though, it's only bad to the religious cultists and to people obsessed with war. And both of those things (the religious cultists and the war obsessed) are actually bad.
>molested by an older vampire gay
it's funny how the same crowd that hates gays and thinks they were all molested as children have no problem with older vampire males molesting little girls.
>because that's how God intended it!
fyi, most gay people were never molested as children.
If you Keep telling yourself that enough maybe it will be true and your bottom will magically not be sore anymore!
What is the difference? Every gay might not be a pedophile, but every gay was molested by a gay pedophile
true i was, so was my gay coworker. its actually insane how many gays this happened to. no wonder there are support groups for this.
And according to libtards the best thing for society is to pretend this isn’t happening and to never discuss it
i've recently seen more attempts at talking about it but even then, saying its a gay culture problem is liable to get you ostracized. same as the whole thing about aids and other diseases, dont ask dont tell.
Kek, a guy I know ended up being gay and he was molested as a kid. It's like all of them were butt fricked by an old gay guy.
A coworker was gay, and he got fired for jerking off in the office, but his comp was full of Cartoon Network porn / very questionably young men. I didn't report it to the feds because my boss said just get rid of the comp and also it was on the cusp so we really couldn't make a call on it and didn't want to look at it.
>Mfw my cishet bigot boss asks me to stop gooning in the office
Oh like pedophiles
>You saying that "Law" proves something, i'm saying that it doesn't.
that's just your bioleftoid circus freakshow coping mechanism: laws show what that civilization deems optimal vs what it doesn't: Lycurgos the legendary lawgiver was like a godlike figure for Sparta which spent centuries modeled by this law
of course homosexuals always existed, nobody doubts that, just like murderers, diarrhea and smallpox
>laws show what civilization
no, it depends on the type of gov't that nation had.
Lycurgos, one man, does not represent "the Spartans" because the Spartans were not a democracy. And hilariously even the Spartans ignored his laws on gay sex.
>Lycourgos, the man who wrote the constitution of the Spartans which modeled their civilization for centuries doesn't represent the values Spartans had
this is getting absolutely embarrassing
ok then, I will do as you are doing and say that what few elites were doing with their dicks has no implications on how Greeks saw the matter whatsoever
after all, Aristophanes does constantly use insults like chaunoproktos and similar
>what the few elite were doing with their dicks
the argument originally wasn't that "all greeks were having gay sex", the argument was whether Xenophon wrote about gays in his books. It was originally claimed i hadn't read the book and that i was just making up that claim about gays in the books.
So i posted screenshots of Xenophon talkiing about gays. Now you're moving the goalpost. 🙂
the only thing you managed to post are vague quotes with 0 mentions of sodomy whatsoever and largely dealing with the already mentioned question of pederasty, NOT ADULT male on male SEXUAL relationships
this happens every single time
>books. It was originally claimed i hadn't read the book and that i was just making up that claim about gays in the books
Which is obviously true as you posted nonsense, most of which were footnotes to the actual text lmao
>you clearly didn't read the book since you mostly posted footnotes
>reading a book and the footnotes doesn't count as reading a book
are all pedophiles as moronic as you? or are you just extra special?
Look mom! I finished my first big boy book! It even has footnotes and I underlined all 3 passages about homosex!
>i finished my first big boy book
i'd hardly call that big boy book lol, history books are light reading for me. Philosophy is big boy (for me at least).
>i underlined all 3 passages about homosex
i highlight all sorts of stuff, i didn't post those though since it wasn't germaine to the conversation.
>common between which participants?
not sure what you're getting at. Are you trying to make the claim that it was "just a few elites that had gay sex"? While i'm sure that's true, i'm also sure that there were "just a few non-elites that had gay sex". That's the thing about homosexuality, it occurs everywhere in rare amounts, across ethnic, cultural and economic boundaries. And laws don't change that. But the fact that it was written about so casually in Xenophon, Thucydides et al. is interesting.
>more totally irrelevant babble
toxoplasmosis and extra chromosomes are an hell of a drug
I'm not even wasting my time anymore opening your shit in photoshop to rotate it
is this why you're homophobic? Because gay men don't want to have sex with you?
>dae u don't like spider? means u secretly want sexo with spider lmaoo gotem 🙂
least mentally handicapped bioleninist, funny thing is, these circus freakshows think their pavlovianly learned armchair psychobabble is relevant
>should have read specifically the constitution of the Spartans then
the laws don't matter in cases of sexual preference. Even the Spartans ignored the laws, since they were well known for their gay buttsexery.
here's a good one, even the KINGS OF SPARTA enjoyed some good ol' fashioned traditional BUTTSEX
why is every pic you post the wrong way
because it amuses me to think of you closeted limp-wrists craning your necks sideways to read about how the Spartans were out and proud poofters
i didnt, dont even have any interest in the gayreek convo, its just very silly to be like that
what's silly is obviously closeted gay men trying to claim that the ancient Spartans/Greeks frowned on gay buttsex, and then trying to use that as a moral indictment against modern America/world. That's silly. My not taking the time to scan documents (which btw, it was claimed i never read the book, and i don't see that guy apologizing for claiming that lol) is just mildly annoying at worse. Not silly though 😛
Okay but america is very gay, especially compared to the would be buttfricking would be hate buttfricker greeks. And what you do is very silly too obviously.
homosexuals are only tolerated in the west if they're friendly to women. This wasn't the case for the ancient world or most other parts of the world that practiced homosexual acts. no one cares as long as you top.
Thanks for the quotation, which work of Xenophon is this from?
Constitution of the Lacedaemonians.
Yeah, knowledge about other Greek polities is much harder to come by. But some poetry also serves as a witness to similar practices prior to 5th-century Athens (Solon, Theognis, Anacreon, Ibycus, Sappho).
Also worth noting that the earliest Greek poetry we have from a confirmed actual individual author includes (heterosexual) erotic poetry of a very straightforward nature. Lends credence to the whole idea that the average person's received assumptions about ancient people might in fact be both stupid and moronic.
It was also celebrated in poetry though, and I don't think it could be reasonably compared with "counterculture" or "subversive" modern stuff, at worst it's decadent but this was not really in a decadent period, just in a rather permissive courtly milieu.
neh, the bigger issue is confusing a specific subset of a thing for the whole, namely, Greek "homosexuality" was essentially a kind of pederasty/pedophilia, being a grown ass adult and a bottom was not accepted like today, and even being the top for an adult male IIRC wasn't exactly liked much either even if it wasn't as bad
The heterosexuality would also be called pedophilia today. The recipients (intercrural sex not anal btw) would be the same age as a girl when she gets married.
In the Greco-Roman world, it sexual relations thought of in terms of penetrated/penetrator, not in terms of the sex of those involved. It was considered demeaning for a male to get penetrated, and was looked down on. In fact boys in pederastic relationships were rarely assfricked. Their thighs were oiled up and they were fricked between the legs.
Sometimes the relationships between the erastes and eromenos were purely platonic too. The younger male was expected to resist the older male's advances and it was seen as unbecoming for him to just be like "yes daddy". The arrangement was set to end as soon as the younger male sprouted facial hair as well.
This is pedo propagandist bullshit
Lol you're delusional. The ancient greeks were super gay. Get over it.
>literal pedo relationships in elite circles that were frowned upon by a large number of philosophers and seen as shameful for the young victim are now being used to promote a "the greeks were gay and that is le beeeotifuuul!!! get over it chuuuud!!!" agenda
gays want to molest children and they don't even hide it anymore. This world is fricked
I dont have a horse in this race but
>The younger male was expected to resist the older male's advances and it was seen as unbecoming for him to just be like "yes daddy"
is still super funny to think about.
They conveniently ignore all the very homophobic stuff that Athenian guys like Xenophon wrote
Do tell.
>the fact that some people said homophobic things shows gays were oppressed
Would you apply that standard to today?
Yes, look at how zesty everything has gotten. It has only gotten so gay because they worship the Black though. With whole areas known as gaycities, I'd say they surpassed the Greeks.
>if this were a fact, wouldn't it also be true to say that modern americans are gay?
Yes, modern Americans are gay.
Come to Atlanta and find out.
They say it was, in some places, in certain ways, not outlawed, and that it was in fact celebrated in literature and culture (although it was also satirized and attacked), not that every Greek person was gay. This is considered notable because most people associate pre-modern history with Christianity, under which sodomy was expressly forbidden, and they assume that "older = more conservative" so these facts about confuses their little brains. Hope this helps!
facts about the Greeks confuse*
>Didn't answer the question
Based Chatgpt poster
I was assuming that you were interested in information about the true state of affairs. If you want your hypothetical answered without regard to whether or not the assumptions on which it rests are true, there's probably a subreddit for that.
>the true state of affairs
>Uhm here is why your generalized statement is not fully correct because "semantics"
Don't open the thread next time to make useless contributions chatgpt poster
I was trying to contextualize why the statement about the Greeks is considered noteworthy and a similar statement about the modern West is not. If you want to call America gay, sure, I don't see why not. I don't think anyone's going to be impressed by the insight though.
>Another useless contribution
Go be a millennial autist somewhere else thanks
>useless
Lmao what would have constituted a “useful” answer, pray tell? Informing you that you’re not as clever as you think you are is about as useful as anything an anon could do for you, if you had any sense it would be an opportunity for you to experience personal growth.
who talks like this? genuinely curious
I'm being facetious because I'm talking down to you because you're moronic and delusional. I'll put it differently: what you're doing by posting this and then deflecting when someone gives you an answer you don't like is effectively begging strangers to agree with you (and tell you your "argument" is super duper smart and original) and then throwing a tantrum when you don't get your way, all of which is gayer than sucking 50 dicks. homosexual.
should i have mentioned im not him? didnt know youd get angry sheesh
I'm so sorry anon... you were caught in the crossfire of an intellectual crossing of swords... another unnecessary casualty...
its okay 🙂
<3
Considering that in Sparta it was required for every initiate spartan to have an older male personal tutor who “showed them the way of love” and that they were only allowed to see their wives for brief conjugal visits like once a year I’d say it was a decent bit gayer than our world. I forget who it was but there was an Athenian who was exiled to Sparta and grew accustomed to their way of life and when he returned to Athens he had to defend them because the Athenians thought they were all gay lol.
If they had male "tutors" AND wives, that means they were bisexual, not gay
Ah that's much better
In several of the ancient Greek cultures it was practically a civic institution, a bit different from contemporary gay culture which is a private matter entirely.
Compare it to this modern gaydom where almost everyone and every company and government chooses to be gay and/or support gays and I think you have your answer. Do you think the Athenians wouldve wanted to export buttfricking to what they considered the uncivilized? They were fine buttfricking on their own, they didn't feel the need to turn Kunta Kinte's village into a cruiser bar.
the gayreeks had wives at least. sure they fricked a boy or two on the side but they still did have families and fricked women and wouldve laughed at the american gay "culture"
Are the Americans living inside your walls right now?
Their masters had tunnels underneath houses so yea probably.
After that news broke out my local Masonic temple went under construction over the sidewalk around it, there are metal plates and you can’t walk over them.
>Xenophon
I capped this myself and read it in the original, in case anyone wants to get a little paranoid about it.
Reading ancient texts with your modern sensibilities, whether e.g. in favour of modern homosexual degenerate homosexuality or the christian-influenced knee-jerk reaction, makes you just a little bit moronic btw
It’s all a israeli lie made up in the 70s
They just did it because they didn't have contraceptives.
>implying it was the mans problem if a woman got pregnant
Well they were civilized too. I'm sure they understood the issue of unwanted children
They had slavery m8
So what?
>Actual straight people don't spend their free time thinking about other dudes
Closeted cumbrained gay line of thought. This is an outsider’s perspective of masculinity. Actual straight guys spend much more time thinking of other men and male related stuff than they do thinking about women and female stuff.
>y’all
Back to plebbit you go. Verification not required.
>So what?
Unwanted child gets put into slavery.
Not that it really matters though, because the notion that ancient gayreeks didn't have access to contraceptives is incorrect in the first place.
not that guy but those contraceptives werent all too effective iirc. the notion that they buttfricked other men because they didnt have condoms is super fricking moronic though, i agree
>Unwanted child gets put into slavery
That’s not how it works. A citizen’s child wouldn’t simply be placed into slavery, that would be a blasphemy of civic custom. You have to remember to the Greeks, everything was sacred and mediated by sacred rites. That’s why Socrates was put to death.
Even if you admit that male lover was a thing, it doesn’t really imply sodomy. iirc out of the 30 thousand or so pieces of pottery, the number that show homoerotic behaviour are in the tens if not single digits.
Oh yea i dont adhere to the gayreek idea anyway. Whenever someone brings it up its always something like those vases or heavily distorted readings of ancient texts. And even then, those who did frick men still had wives. If anything, only once you had a wife and stable family would you frick men on the side.
>That’s not how it works. A citizen’s child wouldn’t simply be placed into slavery, that would be a blasphemy of civic custom.
First there would have to be proof of paternity.
>real straight people obsess about how other men choose to have sex.
no, they really don't lol.
Enjoy your stay in your closet, i'm sure it's fabulous
You are obsessed, with not being found out that is. That’s why it makes you uncomfortable when we talk about your homosexualry. It’s plain as day.
>no, they really don't lol
Then why are you oppressed in every society in the world lol? By other gays? Cope harder.
The more intelligence you have the more you have to share to produce a good time. It's more about having good qualities. Intelligence is a quantity in the same realm as agility, it's more an evil side of man being controlled.
Oh so the greeks did it because they didnt want 30 children and americans do it because they like poop on their dick.
y'all obsess about gay people waaaaaay too much. lol
Actual straight people don't spend their free time thinking about other dudes.
what is the difference between "lover" and "boyfriend", when my gf calls me her boyfriend is she calling me a gay?
The lover fricks. The boyfriend has to hear about it.
Go read symposium, unread Black person
It was but a jest, squire.
I pass on the results of public education - I say nothing about the contests of naked girls in the Stadium, I do not insist on this official exaltation of physical beauty whose recognized goal was to establish for the State haras to citizens sharply trimmed, full-bodied and vigorous; but I say that the end of all this bestiality was to create a branch of wretches without faith, without probity, without shame, without humor, capable of all infamies, and shaped in advance, slaves as they were, to the acceptance of all turpitudes. I refer to the dialogues of the Demos of Aristophanes with his
election.
Damn I know I remember this one but google's not coming up with anything, who's it from?
The Greek people, because they were Aryan, had too much common sense, and because they were Semitic, had too much wit, not to feel that their situation was worthless and that there had to be a better political organization. But for the reason that the contents could not embrace the container, the Greek people did not put themselves outside themselves and did not rise to understand that the source of the evil was in the dazzling absolutism of the governmental principle. It sought in vain the remedy in the secondary means. At the most beautiful time, between the Battle of Marathon and the Peloponnesian War, all the eminent men leaned towards the vague opinion that today we would call conservative. They were not aristocrats, in the true sense of the word (1). Neither Aeschylus nor Aristophanes wished for the restoration of the perpetual or decennial archontat; but they believed that, in the hands of the rich, the government had chance of functioning with more regularity than when it was given to the sailors of Piraeus and the slackers of Pnyx.
"thanks"
No one noticed the real evil and could not, since it was due to the intimate constitution of the Hellenic races. All the inventors of new systems, starting with Plato, missed, without suspicion; what do I say, they took it, on the contrary, as the main element of their reform plans. Socrates provides perhaps the only exception. By seeking to render the idea of vice and virtue independent of political interest, and to elevate the inner man alongside and outside the citizen, this rhetorician had at least glimpsed the difficulty. So I understand that the homeland has not done him grace, and I am not at all surprised to see that in all parties, and especially among the conservatives, there have been voices, among which that of Aristophanes was unfairly counted, to ask for his punishment and bring his sentence. Socrates was the anthagonist of absolute patriotism. As such, he deserved this system to knock him. Yet there was something so pure and noble about his doctrine that honest people were in spite of themselves. Once in the tomb, the sage was regretted, and the people gathered in the theater of Bacchus burst into tears when the choir of the tragedy of Palamedes, inspired by Euripides, sang these sad words: "Greeks, you have put to death the most learned nightingale of the Muses, who had done no harm to no one, Greece's most learned figure." If the sky had suddenly rekindled him, no one would have listened to him anymore. It was the nightingale of the Muses that we regret, the eloquent man, a skilled discussor, an ingenious logician. Artistic dilettantism wept, the heart grieved; as for the political sense, it was inconvertible, because it is an intimate, integral part of the very nature of races, and reflects their faults as well as their qualities.
I wrote this for a few friends a while back when they asked me (t. Classics major):
The status of homosexuality in Ancient Greece is a very complicated question for several reasons: the sources which we have for the most part come from authors with an aristocratic bent, the notions of sexuality today do not transfer to ancient culture, and depictions of male-on-male (let alone female-on-female) relations and/or relationships are incredibly rare. The issue of the aristocratic bent is that when people talk about homosexuality in Greece (specifically Athens) and use literary sources they do not understand the cultural context; Ancient Athens had a social context that allowed pederasty and in which it happened often among the elite. The relationship was assymetrical with the older men (refered to as erastes, meaning "lover") seeking younger men (eromenos, meaning "beloved", being as young as 13 I believe). This sexual relationship was seen as an exchange typically, with the eromenos benefiting by gaining social and political connections through their erastes while the erastes derived the pleasure of being with the eromenos. However, despite this being present in the culture, many opposed it as plannly immoral. And not entirely due to the pedophilic nature of the relationship but because many moralists, politicians, and even doctors saw such activities as damaging to the society and the persons involved. The evidence of homosexual relationships between consenting adults is scant but not non-existent; for example, people will mention how Plato in the Symposium and some other ancient authors saw the relationship of Achilles and Patroclus in the Illiad as being gay, however their mentions are within this erastes-eromenos framework. To give further social context, the very notion of PDA was thoroughly derided in Athens, to the point where the statesman Pericles was seen as a controversial figure among the elite for simply kissing Aspasia (a woman who turned from prostitute to Pericles' wife) in public. Also the notion of sexuality at the time was thoroughlydifferent from today; today terms of sexuality are typically determined by who you're attracted to, while terms related to sexuality in Greece relate to penetrator and penetrated, regardless of gender. As we understand it, the one penetrating is the one holding power and societally completely fine, while the one penetrated is seen as submissive and has a slew of negative stereotypes associated with it. So, to wrap up: sources show very minimal evidence of depictions of adult male-on-male relations, most depictions people point to are in relation to the pederastic relationship of erastes-eromenos, and the notions of sexuality in Greece were based moreso on power dynamics than sexual attraction.
Also to point out, I wrote this a few years ago after taking a course on Classical Athens. The focus of my statement is to show the fault with the modern lens on Greek homosexuality (which typically takes its call-book from Athenian authors which is misinterpreted from the Athenian context). I am also very glad the anon who quoted Xenophon made a break into the discussion to focus on Greek societies outside of Athens.
Very nice, anon
Did your studies involve finding out exactly when and where the erastes-eramenos social dichotomy physically came from?
Sadly, no. We focused on the political dynamics of the practice, looking at it almost as a quid pro quo between young and old men. The course mostly covered Classical Athenian society in broad strokes while giving greater focus to the politics and history of the city from Solon to Demosthenes.
Exactly. I never understood this narrative about the Greeks for precisely this reason. Everything we know about their “gayness” comes from writings during a decadent era from elite homosexuals. If I showed an alien 5 hours of American television they would assume 50% of the population is black and gay, yet we all observe thats not really the case.
>If I showed an alien 5 hours of American television they would assume 50% of the population is black and gay, yet we all observe thats not really the case.
True, black should be swapped for brown.
Much like today, paedophilia nad pederasty was the preserve of the wealthy ruling class.
If the Athenians were so gay then why does Aristophanes, playwright for the common man, constantly make fun of bumdrillers in his plays?
The main point is that it's extremely dumb to dye press 20th century American culture war conservative values onto ancient times, which leads to a big problem if you're going to claim possession of that same ancient civilization, despite it differing significantly from your idealized conservative values
It's cognitive dissonance
yeah sure it's conservatives who are putting big efforts into putting modern labels on 2500 years old civilizations, not the elites and their apparatchik bioleninist dogs
hahahahahah
Right wingers talk almost obsessively about how based and redpilled the ancients were and how much they would be tradlarping Trump voters
Are these right wingers in the room with you right now?
are the gays in the room with you right now? (don't answer that, clearly they are considering your obsessive interest with gays)
Everyone in this thread is gay just a huge thread full of homosexuals
>wouldn't it also be true to say that modern americans are gay?
Anon there's lgbt flags everywhere and trannies dancing at the white house, America being gay isn't exactly a well kept secret?
Amerimutts tend to be at the very least spiritual homosexuals, if not outright homosexuals, so yes
speaking from personal experience in your homely domicile, perhaps?
>The greeks were gay
Not really
>Americans are gay
Oh yea without a doubt. Pride parades in every major city and whole movements to include them in everything? Shoving their children in front of them despite the likelihood of them being predators? Yea they worship gays alright.
and yet what happens when a notorious dickhead goes to jail? people joke about him getting ass raped. just because it's normalized doesn't mean people actually find it normal.
People joke about the suffering that is finally coming to such people, not about its resemblance to gay romantic endeavours. Gay couples however are indeed normalized because it is a gay nation. Loads of people accept it, loads don't have an opinion in the first place, loads "tolerate" it. When was the last gay bashing waves coming from white communities?
There is no shame in living in a gay nation, not every country is perfect.
we are living in the gayest of times
>what are the implications of this
Yes. Americans are gay.
This, name one american who isn't.
Chuck Norris posting was sublimely gay. The Greeks wouldn't have said "If Sokrapamenides knocked on my door, I'd leave my wife for him" like Americans do about Henry Cavill and other masculine men.
Can someone post the infographic of all the famous writers and poets and philosophers being "fooled" by Greek pederasty
notice how the leftcattle chimps as always when dealing with the matter of "gayness" of Greeks immediately jump entirely on the matter of pederasty and pretend to forget that it has no bearing on how ADULT male on male sex was deemed
you could entirely agree with the most extreme takes on how widespread this institution of pederasty was and it would still have little bearing on ADULT male on male relationships
>notice how the leftcattle
it's the rightcattle advocating for pedophilia. Which makes sense that they would, since pedophilia and religion and rightwing have been the unholy trinity for millenia.
there's some gay shit on the idylls. but we need to consider that this was on the hellenistic period, and its ONE gay poet writing gay shit.
The "everyone was gay" claim starts to fall apart once you read more direct sources from antiquity.
See
. The literal, actual hubris to claim "it was ONE" when you aren't even aware of the canonical Greek poets (nevermind having read them, lol).
He says that the laws are so often tolerant of it that he literally doesn't expect the reader to believe the Spartans outlawed it. By even acknowledging the existence of that post you are conceding the war to win that particular battle.
>he literal, actual hubris to claim "it was ONE" when you aren't even aware of the canonical Greek poets (nevermind having read them, lol).
?
I don't think you understood what I meant. I brought the idylls to say that there IS gay shit on Greek poetry, but I made it clear that this was one example.
Ah ok it just reads like that's what you meant since it's obviously self-evident that there was one example in your post but yeah I get what you meant, apologies.
?si=FQx61jWMplKqo0sS
You will also find that accounts of homosexuality in Rome are similar. For example, there is no proof that Hadrian was gay, and there is no evidence that Antinoös was anything more than a beloved friend, except it's worse than the already textually refuted account of Achilles/Patroclus because there was no ancient gay pedophile writing homosexual fan fiction about it hundreds of years later to muddy the waters.
In short, when you actually read, you find that almost everyone including academia is full of shit.
Gonna go say some Hail Marys for having posted multiple times in this thread and contributed to its not dying before it became this. Ora pro nobis peccatoribus, etc.