>read the Odyssey
>have a great time
>try to read the Iliad
>get to the book where it's 500 pages of just listing the people that have shown up to the war
>drop it
It's happened four times now
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>read the Odyssey. >have a great time. >try to read the Iliad
>read the sequel first
???
Yeah. OP did it to himself.
I did the same with Stella Maris though. And I'm yet to read The Passenger.
>It's happened four times now
Power though, OP. I believe in you.
*power through
>read the Iliad
>read online that everyone prefers the odyssey but that the Iliad was still great
>love the Iliad, am completely engrossed in it the entire way through
>start to become extremely excited by the prospect of reading something that's even better
>read the Odyssey
>am completely disappointed
Feels bad man
The Odyssey is about a trillion times better than the Iliad.
The Odyssey feels more like a children’s adventure book, it’s fun but not particularly deep. The Iliad is profound
I don't know how you want to define "deep" but the Odyssey certainly gets at issues that were of the greatest importance to the Greeks - kingship, heritage, homeland, fatherhood, loyalty, guest-host relationship, chastity, diplomacy, etc., these are all foundational to some extent.
And surely you can see that the "adventure" parts of the story are about more than mere adventure. It's a story about the cleverest man in the world being guided by the goddess of wisdom, the Greeks weren't just making up monsters and magic to spice up their tales around the bonfire. The more valid criticism would be that this mythological allegory is a less natural and more primitive artistic mode, but it's not anywhere near being idle entertainment.
>the Odyssey, which is more mellow, though it was written when Homer's genius had cooled, whereas the Iliad was composed when Homer's genius was in it's prime.
We're getting into wacky territory here anon, but I respect it.
It's comical really, but nonetheless it never fails to trigger me, especially because it's so often delivered with self-satisfied certainty and chronological snobbery.
Other way around
This is such a meme. NOOO MUH 5% OF THE ENTIRE TEXT IS CONVOLUTED!!! Who gives a frick? If it bothers you that much just skim it.
This, it's not even that important to begin with. I did the same with the bible when it started listing entire family trees and the exact measure and materials of every fricking nail in some temple and other stuff
It is important in both, anon. You'll see it yourself upon further rereadings.
i'm currently reading it as well. just skim through that part.
This is some kind of pseudointellectual autism where you attach cargo cult-ish value to reading every single word so you filter yourself from reading the greatest work of all time. Guess what, you can skim this one chapter and just go on to read the actual book. Not saying there's nothing to be gotten from it but you don't have to be a perfectionist on your first time (all the way) through, that's just a signal that you've built it up in your mind to be something other than it is.
Honestly I'm pretty confident in the explanatory power of the cargo cult analogy when examining attitudes toward literature on IQfy and in the modern world in general. So many people looking at the end result of a complex process and coming to insane conclusions about it.
I agree with all of this
>get to the book where it's 500 pages of just listing the people that have shown up to the war
One of the most important historical documents of all time. Many of the warriors listed their are cited again later in the Iliad by their region so it is also worth reading through and not skipping over. As recently as the 20th century it was cited to settle geneology debates.
For myself, I prefer the Iliad over the Odyssey by a wide margin. Everything about it is hyper detailed, fervent, and masculine. The imagery evoked is far regularly gruesome, chaotic, awesome, and sublime than the Odyssey, which is more mellow, though it was written when Homer's genius had cooled, whereas the Iliad was composed when Homer's genius was in it's prime.
Also, I recommend anons read the Cowper translation, many scholars say it is the closest you can come to reading the Iliad in it's "original" form in Greek, and this as Cowpers intent:
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/16452/16452-h/16452-h.htm
>Jove
Take your time with it. Imagine the characters. Memorize their names and histories. It is part of the story, and, to me, conveys a necessary element of the divine viewpoint, by connecting the characters to the past deeds of their forefathers, their own natures, and the lives of their respective squadrons. Tolkien does the same in emulation of this and Scripture. The Torah did it first, really. Often in the book of Numbers, each leader of a tribe is named, in conjunction with the name of his father or ancestor, then the subsequent notable members of their tribe and or the tribe's number of relevant men. In time, you will learn to appreciate these sorts of passages in ancient writings. I've become like Tolkien, in that I romanticize them.
>get to the book where it's 500 pages of just listing the people that have shown up to the war
>drop it
Hih? This only happens once at book 2.
It happens once in book two but also there is tons of other stuff like “____ the son of —— who did *random action in his home country which has no bearing on the current war* fell to the sword of ____ son of ——“ and it gets a bit arid.
It may be time to let you know that The Odyssey was the greatest piece of literature ever produced and everything else you read thereafter will never live up to it. Do not despair anon, this is an inevitable part of the process.
The catalogue of ships is peak kino and none of you midwits can convince me otherwise. Spend a moment to actually consider what you're reading, it's not about just being entertained enough to keep your attention until the next chapter begins. It's not a tiktok.
I liked when it gave us the backstory of the dude who beat his father’s servant which has no bearing on anything at all but it’s sorta neat to know, I guess.
Why would it need to have bearing on the plot?
I read Pope's translation and the catalogue of ships wasn't boring. Although I do remember it being a slot when I read gayles. Also grow up, it's just a couple pages, you can speed-read it if it's a problem.
Thoughts on the Lattimore translation? Is it worth reading?
It is THE modern translation. Samuel Butler is fine if you want something old timey. Some things Lattimore didn’t translate well. I didn’t realize Odysseus gave a fake name to Laertes which conveys the feelings of sorrow the latter felt. The fact gayles translated it as “Allsorrow” is something which in contrast, Lattimore neglected to emphasize. Double meanings and word humor are not a strength of Lattimore.
That's good to hear. I know all of the translations have there flaws, but I found a cheap copy of Lattimores at a book store and I think I'll start it soon
gayles is considered much more juvenile and mediocre here but be warned, Lattimore is far more serious and dry.
just read Cowper, Lattimore is greatly inferior to Cowper. I don't understand why any English speaker would read an Iliad or Odyssey translation that is not Cowper.
The Catalogue of Ships is to show the listener the grand scale of the war. Armies came from all over. Its not just the number of ships, but variety of locations and distances they traveled from.
It is important because it is a detailed account of the Greek and Anatolian settlements in around 1100 bc. Still is arid.
I read the Chapman Illiad, the gayles Aeneid, and the Lawrence prose Odyssey