Not gamedev no. I want to build B2B software. Both desktop and SAAS. I have a project in mind and i would like to build it. I already wrote down the functional specifications but i first want to get experience in a company before building the software.
2 years ago
Anonymous
THEN WHY DIDNT YOU SAY THIS FROM THE GET GO
2 years ago
Anonymous
Would it change anything if i said so?
2 years ago
Anonymous
It would help people understand what your thread is supposed to be about. Starting a thread with a picture of two knights fighting and asking "worth it or not" tells people absolutely nothing aside from that it's vaguely related to C# and Java somehow.
2 years ago
Anonymous
LEARN TO READ NIGG3R
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nah the op is a zoomer moron that cant even put a pargraph together.
His reading comprehendion probably doesnt even go past elementary school yet hes asking about programming languages.
Sad.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It would help people understand what your thread is supposed to be about. Starting a thread with a picture of two knights fighting and asking "worth it or not" tells people absolutely nothing aside from that it's vaguely related to C# and Java somehow.
It's in here morons:
I know. I didn't ask whether i should learn one instead of the other. I asked whether it would be beneficial to learn and specializes in this category of languages (VM based, mostly OOP multiparadigm langs with a rich ecosystem and standard library)
OP here (again). I would like to question your claim that they're allegedly as easy and productive as Python. I only used C# with ASP.NET Core so far but there are so many conventions involved in building an App. I used the N-Tier architecture. You have to implement DTOs, Repositories, Services, Interfaces, sometimes Units of work, etc... And now they say that the N-Tier architecture is not the standard anymore and that you should build your project with the Clean Architecture (Onion Architecture). Sure, EF, LINQ and the Templates they offer abstract away a lot of work but i don't think it's easier than building a Laravel, Django or Express app. This is the subjective opinion of a noob who just started programming a year or two ago. I'm probably mistaken.
Not gamedev no. I want to build B2B software. Both desktop and SAAS. I have a project in mind and i would like to build it. I already wrote down the functional specifications but i first want to get experience in a company before building the software.
I know. I didn't ask whether i should learn one instead of the other. I asked whether it would be beneficial to learn and specializes in this category of languages (VM based, mostly OOP multiparadigm langs with a rich ecosystem and standard library)
They strike the perfect balance. While C/C++ is extremely fast but overly time-consuming and frustrating to develop with, and something like Python is extremely slow, C# or Java is both super easy and quick to develop in, and yet performance is also still good enough for almost all applications.
2 years ago
Anonymous
That's a fair point. How hard are they to master??
2 years ago
Anonymous
OP here (again). I would like to question your claim that they're allegedly as easy and productive as Python. I only used C# with ASP.NET Core so far but there are so many conventions involved in building an App. I used the N-Tier architecture. You have to implement DTOs, Repositories, Services, Interfaces, sometimes Units of work, etc... And now they say that the N-Tier architecture is not the standard anymore and that you should build your project with the Clean Architecture (Onion Architecture). Sure, EF, LINQ and the Templates they offer abstract away a lot of work but i don't think it's easier than building a Laravel, Django or Express app. This is the subjective opinion of a noob who just started programming a year or two ago. I'm probably mistaken.
2 years ago
Anonymous
My day job is C# (admittedly desktop apps and not ASP.NET) and I don't know what any of the things you mention even are, except LINQ. Pretty sure you are overthinking this.
C# is very simple and although it has the vast .NET standard library and some conventions at your disposal, it's all optional. You can just use your own style too, if you really want. I don't see how that's different from Python. I sure know that if I was given a task to program some simple app in Python vs C#, I'd have an easier and quicker time doing it in C#.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's understandable that you don't know what these things are if you've never built webservers in C#. If you were though, and you didn't know what a DTO, a Repository pattern, an IRepository or a N-Tier architecture were, i'd call you a bullshitter, same goes for a Java/Spring dev who wouldn't know what these are. It's the universal conventions for building web services with these frameworks. Anyways, i'm looking i found a C# desktop dev, i have few questions for you.
If i were to use C# for a desktop app, should i use UWP/WinForms/WPF or MAUI? How hard is it compared to something like Flutter Desktop or ElectronJS? Answer me without taking into account cross-platform compatibility issues, i don't care about these.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>i'm lucky* i found a C# desktop dev
2 years ago
Anonymous
>If i were to use C# for a desktop app, should i use UWP/WinForms/WPF or MAUI? How hard is it compared to something like Flutter Desktop or ElectronJS? Answer me without taking into account cross-platform compatibility issues, i don't care about these.
I mostly use WPF at work because we didn't need cross-platform support either, and for what it does it's almost perfect. Very easy and convenient once you get the hang of it, yet very feature-rich.
However, even if you say not to take cross-platform compatibility into account, I must say that if I were to start a new personal project today I'd probably use Uno Platform instead, precisely for this reason. It even supports Linux which MAUI still lacks.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The main issue i have with MAUI is it seems more like a mobile-first framework and the desktop side is only marginally important. Even in the documentation and content created online, it's all mobile-centric which is.. frustrating. I'll have a look at the UNO Platform (never heard of it before).
2 years ago
Anonymous
isn't wpf deprecated?
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's in maintenance mode rather than development mode, but I wouldn't call it deprecated. Windows is using WPF themselves for the Visual Studio GUI etc, so they will need to keep it healthy for a long while still.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I see
2 years ago
Anonymous
>N-Tier Architecture
the recommended blueprint for building webserver applications to implement separation of concern and decouple layers of your app for the last 20 years.
>Clean Architecture
The new standard to build modern services to make your business logic independent from your infrastructure layer VS having everything depend on a DB. The base of your app is the business logic project, followed by the infrastructure layer and the application layer. On top sits the UI/API. It's easier to split a monolith into microservices this way, or to change your dependencies or database without having to do much refactoring
>DTOs
Data transfer Objects. Instead of sending your entities as they are stored in your DB you created data transfer classes that only communicate the bare minimum required through the API (eg: no ID is sent).
>Repository Pattern
It's a pattern to separate the methods/components that encapsulate the logic of your application like checking if an email address exists, getting or setting data in the database or verifying the phone number is valid from your controller endpoints. The controller accesses the repository method through an interface and is more readable (you don't have hundreds of lines of text for a single endpoint.
Fighting to the death is usually not worth it.
If you're bent on doing it however, I would recommend going with C# since a mace is much more effective against medieval armor than a sword.
>a mace is much more effective against medieval armor than a sword.
But you get more flexibilty with sword. You have more chances of disarming your opponent.
I can't quite follow your logic here.
Historically swords were not used because they are particularly effective weapons (compared to polearms and especially against plate armor).
The main benefit of swords was their convenience (you can just hang them at your waist).
The way people used swords against plate armor was to grab both the hilt and the blade at the same time and effectively use it as a dagger (half-swording).
However, I don't think you could do that effectively with a shield so I think the guy with the mace has a clear advantage.
I'm really frustrated with the state of desktop app development. I had a lot of hopes regarding MAUI but you can't imagine how much i was turned-off when i understood that the framework is basically a mobile first technology. Flutter Desktop lacks too many features and there are equally as many features you have you implement from scratch. Electron is too memory consuming and slow for what i want to build. I hope JavaFX/Swing aren't that bad.
Both are shit, C++ is way better. Unfortunately people don't hire C++ devs unless you have plenty of YOE or some cool shit like fintech making 300k a year.
Which one? Worth what? Stop being a vague moron op.
Either one. Worth specializing in and betting on. They are the same, aren't they?
They're both useful professionally, if you want to get into game development learn C# I guess.
Not gamedev no. I want to build B2B software. Both desktop and SAAS. I have a project in mind and i would like to build it. I already wrote down the functional specifications but i first want to get experience in a company before building the software.
THEN WHY DIDNT YOU SAY THIS FROM THE GET GO
Would it change anything if i said so?
It would help people understand what your thread is supposed to be about. Starting a thread with a picture of two knights fighting and asking "worth it or not" tells people absolutely nothing aside from that it's vaguely related to C# and Java somehow.
LEARN TO READ NIGG3R
Nah the op is a zoomer moron that cant even put a pargraph together.
His reading comprehendion probably doesnt even go past elementary school yet hes asking about programming languages.
Sad.
It's in here morons:
N1GG3R
Leave, you stupid racist Black person.
Both
install gentoo
No
Well
Learn both, they're the same shit.
I know. I didn't ask whether i should learn one instead of the other. I asked whether it would be beneficial to learn and specializes in this category of languages (VM based, mostly OOP multiparadigm langs with a rich ecosystem and standard library)
Obviously yes. There's a reason they are so popular.
Which is??
They strike the perfect balance. While C/C++ is extremely fast but overly time-consuming and frustrating to develop with, and something like Python is extremely slow, C# or Java is both super easy and quick to develop in, and yet performance is also still good enough for almost all applications.
That's a fair point. How hard are they to master??
OP here (again). I would like to question your claim that they're allegedly as easy and productive as Python. I only used C# with ASP.NET Core so far but there are so many conventions involved in building an App. I used the N-Tier architecture. You have to implement DTOs, Repositories, Services, Interfaces, sometimes Units of work, etc... And now they say that the N-Tier architecture is not the standard anymore and that you should build your project with the Clean Architecture (Onion Architecture). Sure, EF, LINQ and the Templates they offer abstract away a lot of work but i don't think it's easier than building a Laravel, Django or Express app. This is the subjective opinion of a noob who just started programming a year or two ago. I'm probably mistaken.
My day job is C# (admittedly desktop apps and not ASP.NET) and I don't know what any of the things you mention even are, except LINQ. Pretty sure you are overthinking this.
C# is very simple and although it has the vast .NET standard library and some conventions at your disposal, it's all optional. You can just use your own style too, if you really want. I don't see how that's different from Python. I sure know that if I was given a task to program some simple app in Python vs C#, I'd have an easier and quicker time doing it in C#.
It's understandable that you don't know what these things are if you've never built webservers in C#. If you were though, and you didn't know what a DTO, a Repository pattern, an IRepository or a N-Tier architecture were, i'd call you a bullshitter, same goes for a Java/Spring dev who wouldn't know what these are. It's the universal conventions for building web services with these frameworks. Anyways, i'm looking i found a C# desktop dev, i have few questions for you.
If i were to use C# for a desktop app, should i use UWP/WinForms/WPF or MAUI? How hard is it compared to something like Flutter Desktop or ElectronJS? Answer me without taking into account cross-platform compatibility issues, i don't care about these.
>i'm lucky* i found a C# desktop dev
>If i were to use C# for a desktop app, should i use UWP/WinForms/WPF or MAUI? How hard is it compared to something like Flutter Desktop or ElectronJS? Answer me without taking into account cross-platform compatibility issues, i don't care about these.
I mostly use WPF at work because we didn't need cross-platform support either, and for what it does it's almost perfect. Very easy and convenient once you get the hang of it, yet very feature-rich.
However, even if you say not to take cross-platform compatibility into account, I must say that if I were to start a new personal project today I'd probably use Uno Platform instead, precisely for this reason. It even supports Linux which MAUI still lacks.
The main issue i have with MAUI is it seems more like a mobile-first framework and the desktop side is only marginally important. Even in the documentation and content created online, it's all mobile-centric which is.. frustrating. I'll have a look at the UNO Platform (never heard of it before).
isn't wpf deprecated?
It's in maintenance mode rather than development mode, but I wouldn't call it deprecated. Windows is using WPF themselves for the Visual Studio GUI etc, so they will need to keep it healthy for a long while still.
I see
>N-Tier Architecture
the recommended blueprint for building webserver applications to implement separation of concern and decouple layers of your app for the last 20 years.
>Clean Architecture
The new standard to build modern services to make your business logic independent from your infrastructure layer VS having everything depend on a DB. The base of your app is the business logic project, followed by the infrastructure layer and the application layer. On top sits the UI/API. It's easier to split a monolith into microservices this way, or to change your dependencies or database without having to do much refactoring
>DTOs
Data transfer Objects. Instead of sending your entities as they are stored in your DB you created data transfer classes that only communicate the bare minimum required through the API (eg: no ID is sent).
>Repository Pattern
It's a pattern to separate the methods/components that encapsulate the logic of your application like checking if an email address exists, getting or setting data in the database or verifying the phone number is valid from your controller endpoints. The controller accesses the repository method through an interface and is more readable (you don't have hundreds of lines of text for a single endpoint.
Mh....
I don't know it, therefore it's not worth it. Simple as.
try kotlin
Should i? Why?
neither is worth a doggy diarhhea doodoo
Fighting to the death is usually not worth it.
If you're bent on doing it however, I would recommend going with C# since a mace is much more effective against medieval armor than a sword.
>a mace is much more effective against medieval armor than a sword.
But you get more flexibilty with sword. You have more chances of disarming your opponent.
I can't quite follow your logic here.
Historically swords were not used because they are particularly effective weapons (compared to polearms and especially against plate armor).
The main benefit of swords was their convenience (you can just hang them at your waist).
The way people used swords against plate armor was to grab both the hilt and the blade at the same time and effectively use it as a dagger (half-swording).
However, I don't think you could do that effectively with a shield so I think the guy with the mace has a clear advantage.
>I can't quite follow your logic here.
Game logic instead of real world logic. Every weapon "must" have some sort of rock-paper-scissors tradeoff.
Just learn C. They're both (failed) attempts at replacing it.
I don't want to work in embedded software engineering. If i learn C i'll do it for the fun only.
>Learning C
>Fun
once you go .NET there's no going back. You will be spoilt.
frick you gpt-3, stop making shit thread
That's rude dude. I'm not a bot.
I'm really frustrated with the state of desktop app development. I had a lot of hopes regarding MAUI but you can't imagine how much i was turned-off when i understood that the framework is basically a mobile first technology. Flutter Desktop lacks too many features and there are equally as many features you have you implement from scratch. Electron is too memory consuming and slow for what i want to build. I hope JavaFX/Swing aren't that bad.
C# Knight has a way better weapon for that fight
bloombrg
Both are shit, C++ is way better. Unfortunately people don't hire C++ devs unless you have plenty of YOE or some cool shit like fintech making 300k a year.
t. work at a bank and everything is Java