>thesis is basically AY YO FRICK WHITEY something something power
>becomes mainstream academic discourse and is taught in graduate seminars as obviously correct
How
>thesis is basically AY YO FUCK WHITEY something something power >becomes mainstream academic discourse and is taught in graduate seminars as obvious...
Another chud who lives in Bakerswille Ohio, shouting about how WESTERN CIVILIZATION MUST BE PRESERVED while not studying humanities.
Nice non sequitur, are you a sandBlack person like Said?
it follows quite well you know I'm right.
you morons do nothing to preserve western civilization and support funding cuts to humanities and then b***h about how sandBlack folk and librulz have taken over.
If you want to preserve Western Civilization do something.
The book is literally an attack on western civilization you moron
Okay let me agree with you on this.
What are you doing to defend western civilization? Are you funding humanities? Studying Latin? Or posting ave evropa memes on twitter with a neo classical sculpture profile picture?
>dude you have to be a professor and classics genius to support your civilisation
homosexual
that said I don’t want to detract from the importance of studying these things but your sophistry is gay
I am not obligated to prove to you my level of commitment, random homosexual on the internet. Rest assured, I am doing my part.
you don't do jack shit
its not sophistry when its stating the truth
those who shout loudest about western civilization are those who do the least, this is why such fields are dominated by left and by "minorities"
>hahahaha homosexual go study basket weaving phaggot I will study STEM and make REAL money
>hahahaha I will vote for republicans who will defund these librulbaries and librulseums even further hahahaha
>waaah libshits sandBlack folk are everywhere in this field waaah
leftists are inherently anti white and any voice that even concern the dwindling numbers of whites can get you destroyed socially.
Not him, but I think there are bigger social and global problems than vain identity politics right now. Human beings are not the center of the world.
All of these problems and **more** come from industrialization. We need to end the industrial order. Check image to get an idea of the future we're heading towards.
>muh vain identity politics
are you some homosexual conservative? the continuance of a historic peoples is extremely important. Especially us Euros.
That said the technocracy is a huge problem as well.
I am a humanities major but it doesn’t matter as ALL schools or political groups are explicitly anti whites. I lucked into getting somewhere reasonable but such a fate is not open to all majors.
Not to mention that wealth building is also important for any group of people.
Then you would understand the biggest problem of humanities right now is lack of conservative students in first place. There is no crisis of conservatives being bullied and repressed in the humanities fields because there are no fricking conservatives to bully in.
>Not to mention that wealth building is also important for any group of people.
You either serve muses or mammon.
Really? Thats a nice surprise. What else are you reading?
>there are no fricking
how do you know?
T. did history degree, would never admit it to any staff
even if they're not kicking you out they're probably suddenly being harsher on your largely subjective grades
>Really? Thats a nice surprise. What else are you reading?
Worlds systems theorists and other anti-white "systems analysts." This is what grad school in the humanities largely is.
>the continuance of a historic peoples is extremely important. Especially us Euros.
Sure, but I'm saying we have bigger problems right now like movement towards brain-cloud interfaces (e.g., injectable self-assembling nano-neural meshes), normalization of genetic engineering, greater surveillance technologies based on Big Data in Azure and AWS data centers, and much more. We should be talking abut the dangers of industrialization first and foremost.
Rand corporation's video on "Internet of Bodies", an evolution of "Internet of Things":
https://www.rand.org/multimedia/video/2020/10/29/what-is-the-internet-of-bodies.html
Article on nano neural mesh. Musk is also funding similar research:
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1705509114?fbclid=IwAR0z9FEi1Yo9rr6H18DHkyWXkOemI7h4LzN70ktUrnvu7b7M0LNc0MKP4nk
Yuval talking about the future:
>That said the technocracy is a huge problem as well.
Glad you at least met me halfway.
I don't have a problem with white nationalism when it's not mixed with superiority complex or Nordicism fyi. It's more like I just see there are bigger pressing issues atm.
Oh please
Have you even tried to get into humanities? Enroll it then get bullied out of by leftards and then I will agree with you. But most of you don't even bother.
You are pragmatic, that is your problem very pragmatic and see everything as "how this will benefit me" say whatever you like about leftists but they are idealists, many of them forgo majors that can bring money to study humanities while you under your strict pragmatism only see studies as how much money it can bring disregarding the importance of culture. This is why left wins cultural war because of your apathy.
We did some department reaches to increase our major counts in a conservative enough college and almost always we get "why should I do this and become a barista in starbucks? Ima go premed!" It is never "I will be cancelled by sjws and lefties If I enroll"
>say whatever you like about leftists but they are idealists
Their idealism only exists insofar that reality does not limit them like it does with badthinkers. It's easy to be idealistic when you sing the same song as the people in charge. Why would they try to sabotage you? You're their useful idiot, of course they won't hold you back the slightest bit.
>many of them forgo majors that can bring money to study humanities while you under your strict pragmatism only see studies as how much money it can bring disregarding the importance of culture.
This is only my sociological theory but I think "chuds" are overwhelmingly lower class or lower-middle class whites, in other words, the biggest losers of globohomo. They cannot afford to gamble by studying the humanities. The elite and the upper-middle classes, the biggest winners of globohomo, in turn, can afford to allow their children to study the humanities, so these shitlib kids will infect the entire field with their shitlib ideology because it is all they have ever known or seen around themselves in their bougie milieu.
>This is why left wins cultural war because of your apathy.
They win because the powers that be back them, and they will fall when they stop being useful to these powers. Stop putting the cart before the horse, stop thinking that success in academia isn't a reflection of how well you conform to the elites and their desired narrative, but rather the result of some mystical idea of academics making it big because they are talented people doing good research.
Good post anon. I agree with you in that in many instances, those rebels and free thinkers are the become staunchest conservatives when it comes to covering their bottomline and are very prone to groupthink. Your obeservations of the chud class can be unto the point.
The school I am attenting harbors the upper middle class and rich from NE. Basically ivy rejects but they also do not want to do anything with humanities.
I'm a graduate student who works in a classical department, we are fighting to preserve our funds and try to enroll more students into it, failing spectacularly in both. This is a private liberal arts school btw.
Being affluent doesn't imply thinking ballett should be cancelled and replaced with jisso twerking. And yet this is the opinion of at least 30% of humanities students and faculty
You're implying that even if those people did go on to study classics and try to "march through the institutions" they wouldn't just get shut down, blacklisted, and smeared as chuds by the infinitely more numerous, better connected, and better funded mandarins of the orthodoxy.
>>hahahaha homosexual go study basket weaving phaggot I will study STEM and make REAL money
>>hahahaha I will vote for republicans who will defund these librulbaries and librulseums even further hahahaha
>>waaah libshits sandBlack folk are everywhere in this field waaah
Who are you quoting
Yourself when you become 18 in few years my dear underage history expert.
High schoolers aren't reading Orientalism. Its obvious that I made this thread to complain about my grad school curriculum. Kys purity spiraling moron.
Bro just go to catholic school.
I've been an electrician for 3 decades. What are YOU doing to preserve western civilization?
electricians do not preserve shit, it is just a trade, what you need to do is cultural preservation. You don't need to study classics like I do, but you can donate to your local library your local humanities department in a university and so on
This is why you will lose the cultural war. Need more right winger people in Humanities less in stem
>electricians do not preserve shit
How do you think all those books last so long (climate control powered by electricity)? How do people read about culture when the sun goes down (electric lighting).
You're welcome.
Yours is a valuable profession but culturally speaking it is worth shit. Surgeons are also valuable but they do not preserve the culture.
Let's not pretend people with history degrees are some titanic cultural force
no but they contribute, not all majors but graduates and above publish articles, the archaeologists public reports, museum workers categorize things. Electrician does the same shit in west as he does in Africa or in China nothing specific about western civilization
Being a YouTube rapper would make you more influential than getting a PhD in history.
Sure, not in preserving western civilization however.
They don't do shit about culture, China can invade West today and the same electricians can serve china just as they serve west. Not true with humanities.
Again I'm not saying everyone should drop having a proper trade and enroll into humanities. But you know at least don't vote for politicians who defund these places? Maybe donate even a small amount to a local museum?
>Maybe donate even a small amount to a local museum?
You've never been in a muse or you would be aware of how harmful they are to western historical preservation. They're trying to cater to people who hate the west and westerners.
There are plenty of museums that have western artifacts. They toil in humid infested no window basements to catalogue shit for minimum wage.
I should ask you have you ever visited such museums or excavation sites?
electrical systems are not western civilization
language, literature, art is
Try reading a two hundred year old book from a building without climate control in the dark. Enjoy your moldy paper you can't even see. You're seriously arguing industrialization and electricity have not influenced culture? You're delusional.
I'm not saying it did not. But forgive me If I don't consider you more valuable than a archaeologist a linguist an art historian a painter a writer when it comes to preserving WESTERN civilization.
In an utilitarian perspective electrician provides more value to a society than 1000 artists combined. But that is not western or the like it is just maintaining society afloat. Today you can destroy every western painting, artwork, statue and you can still function just the same.
>Today you can destroy every western painting, artwork, statue and you can still function just the same.
False.
Who designs, installs and maintains the systems responsible for preserving these historic items to maximum appreciation? If the item s are gone the culture changes and so does the subculture of the maintainers. It takes specialized knowledge to what lighting works best from what angle at what color temperature and intensity. If the items leave so does that peripheral knowledge and action. Preservation of culture is in action by EVERY vocation within that culture. Not just academics and artists.
Maximum appreciation of art and literature is handled differently by different cultures, is it not?
>Preservation of culture is in action by EVERY vocation within that culture.
I think you are preserving the society but not the culture. The garbage truck driver also preserves the society but it doesn't preserve the culture.
There is nothing wrong with being an electrician and I understand your reasoning but I disagree.
By your logic the peasant who fed the monk who copies cicero also preserved the western civilization. Yeah maybe. But today people don't even feed the monks, more and more places are getting defunded and lose funding and get closed down.
I'm not an academic nor wealthy and make sure some monks and some poor are fed. I also make sure the lights turn on safely and swimming pools don't have electrical hazards. There can be no preservation of culture without those simple actions by individuals on a daily basis. How about giving some credit to the low lifes that made sure cultural items were hidden and preserved from cultural revolutionists. Remember in that scenario the academics were the first to be murdered, so some low life did the hiding. Get off your high horse fren. Everyone is involved in both preserving and destroying culture.
not at all, in a neutral scale you are far more valuable than me. I'm not saying anything to lord over you or think I am better than you or anything. I come from a stem family and I'm the only humanites guy.
I'm not saying I do more shit than YOU. but I think many people who want to preserve western culture are also abobawdely ruthless towards museums libraries university which is a bit unfair, I wish people supported these fields more I'm not here to say how electricians are useless or anything like that
I suggest while you are in your academic pursuits the idea of teaching others what their cultural legacy might be. Ask not what your culture will do for you, but what will you do for your culture. I'm going to go see how my tobbacco and cotton are doing after 2vdays of rain. Can't have slaves for that anymore so I have to do it myself.
>electrical systems are not western civilization
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>China can invade West today and the same electricians can serve china
No they cannot. Not without immense retraining. The electrical systems, materials and methods are very different. Not to even mention safety practices. All of which are based on different demands based on different cultural beliefs and differences.
If you don't preserve your culture through humanities, the electricity will still exist, the library will still be maintained, but the books inside will be different. Just think about it.
Both your examples are the preservation in ACTION. Nothing is preserved by thought alone. It must be acted on or it (the math, science, value and qualty of life) becomes stories, myth, nothing more. Electricians, surgeons, architects, engineers, janitors, all preserve culture every time they perform their vocation.
There's a thesis that would shake your professor to an A+ or a solid F, nothing in between.
That's a bit unfair, since the criticism against humanities is usually not that students shouldn't learn history/philosophy/politics/literature, but that learning it full-time right before entering the job market is not helpful for most students, and shouldn't be promoted by society as such. But I agree that you can't complain about the humanities being taken over by ideologues after convincing an entire generation of reasonable people to avoid them.
I respect those passionate students who do take these subjects seriously and want to pursue them further, but that minority should be the focus of program admissions, not "undecided majors" who are just teenagers/young adults unsure what to do with their life and are being pressured by family and friends to "just get a degree". The universities obviously want the latter because it's profitable to them, and the ideologues benefit too because they want as big of an audience as possible to try and convince to become "agents of change" as they call it nowadays.
humanities are full of troony israelites like you
There is no such thing as a "correct" opinion. Everything is dependent on the consciousness of individual people in regards to aesthetic differences, i.e., music, art, architecture, film, that's why critical appraisals are just examples of "it makes me feel"
>insults small, rural towns
>scratches his head wondering why the working class barely supports socialism
What makes you think I'm a leftist? Capitalist don't exploit working class enough. hope more of their jobs get outsourced.
Suggest some alternatives, do not be afraid to challenge your professors.
>Another troon who lives in seattle Washington , shouting about how WESTERN CIVILIZATION MUST BE DESTROYED while not studying anything falsifiable
l study classics
What do you do anon?
Math
This. The best historians were always mathematicians.
If you have a problem with Ohio ill beat your ass
Eastphiles are still seething to this day that we didn’t scrap everything and base our ideas on their origins which is in “the east”
The east doesn’t appeal to me. Never has. It’s gross and primitive.
*tips fedora*
>primitive
This is a good thing because industrialization was a mistake.
This entire website is built on the appreciation of an Eastern country's nerd culture. You don't belong here.
You do know Western Civilization was built on Christianity, an EASTERN religion?
Christianity was founded within the borders of Rome
It uses Sabazios gestures, Dionysian wind rituals, Jesus and Paul paraphrase stoics constantly,and it's imperial cult worship.
As a white Buddhist,
frick all that unscientific Eastern bullshit that gets imported all the time. The achievements of rationality and logic eclipsed all that myth and magic ever contributed to humanity. Eastphilia is a disease because all that stuff is meant to be taken on faith without TRYING IT OUT FOR YOURSELF AHHHH IS THAT SO HARD
>The achievements of rationality and logic
Not a single positive thing came from technology, the sciences, modern "medicine", industrialization, and so on.
Cringe 16 year old
Most of "modern" medicine was backed by the Rockefellers, utilizing petrochemicals, and to make people more dependent on this shitty industrial system. They have done their best to attack naturopathy. Green black walnut tincture, unpasteurized sauerkraut, very meager amount of colloidal silver, and even cow urine all work better than antibiotics, petrochemical based medicine, and more.
Mods ban this fricking cringe homosexual trying to turn every thread into his embarrassing kaczynski jerk
It's normally the one people call to be censored who is closest to the Truth.
You're suggesting a 40-50 year life span is "far better" than 70-80 years. Then again that might be true. 80 is too long as the brain disolves and everything becomes unrecognizable. Long life is overrated, pass the unpasteurized cow urine please.
Green back walnut tincture is probably the best. A lot of illnesses are due to intestinal parasites, so I recommend green black walnut tincture, raw pumpkin seeds, and raw sauerkraut occasionally.
Also, you can live long without modern medicine. A lot of it is just about proper diet and nutrition to boost immune system. There is nothing more powerful than cod liver, **with its oil**, for the immune system. I highly recommend eating that 2-3 times a week. You don't need to supplement vitamin D3 and K2 if you eat cod liver with its oil.
>naturopathy
>Green black walnut tincture, unpasteurized sauerkraut, very meager amount of colloidal silver, and even cow urine all work better than antibiotics
I have two STEM degrees, and most research on meds are based on a flawed reductionist paradigm that only study at a single receptor level. A brain is a highly interconnected dynamical system, and it is highly likely there are adverse effects on functional or structural connectivity from inducing changes to diffuse modulatory neurotransmitter systems. For example, serotonin is involved in many functions than just mood regulation, and SSRIs would thus have a lot of negative side-effects, which could be accumulative.
There are very few longitudinal studies (without conflict of interests) that study these meds for long stretches of time.
Supplementation and proper diet and nutrition are better than meds.
>you WILL drink the cow piss
>frick all that unscientific Eastern bullshit that gets imported all the time.
What does this even mean?
>Cover is of a likely prepubescent boy in the nude entertaining grown man with his body just to make a living
>This type of culture needed to be preserved for some reason
Jesus christ you are so fricking stupid
The state of this board when something as fundamental and extremely basic as the cover of Orientalism filters the trash on this shithole
Genuinely have a nice day.
Nobody in the thread even read the damn book.
Somehow the few instances I decide to visit this terrible boars the first thread on the catalog is enough to make me remember why I never come here
>As a white Buddhist,
>frick all that unscientific Eastern bullshit that gets imported all the time. The achievements of rationality and logic eclipsed all that myth and magic ever contributed to humanity. Eastphilia is a disease because all that stuff is meant to be taken on faith without TRYING IT OUT FOR YOURSELF AHHHH IS THAT SO HARD
Because posting a basedjak is easier than putting in work. Thanks for proving me right!
Ackshually it totally became as big of a deal as it ended up being due to its own merits and totally not because it worked backwards from the views of a then-ascendant political ideology, to be its intellectual pretext and bible.
Just turned up under the uptrend of de-/post-colonization. Nevertheless, the book is quite useful, I personally recognized several names of 19th century explorers who should be read. Unfortunately, some of them have not been translated from French.
I read it. He makes some valid points, like criticizing the way British people ruled over Egyptians, while infantilizing them. Not asking them how they want to be ruled. On the other hand, he has a lot of brainfarts. Like calling Dante out because he put islamic scholars and conquerors in Limbo, just like Geek scholars and conquerors. What was meant to be a compliment for Islamic intellectual brilliance (we're talking about the middle ages here) gets distorted to be an insult- because they're put on the same level as "heathens". Absolutely intellectually dishonest imo.
>What was meant to be a compliment for Islamic intellectual brilliance
It wasn't, moron. Islam as a discrete religion didn't exist to europeans of the middle ages, because islam was seen as a christian heresy with muhammad as its heresiarch rather than a religion of its own.
Well, let me rephrase it then. Those Muslim philosophers and conquerors, who he interpreted to be sectarian Christians, were granted a seat together with Greek philosophers and conquerors. Thus, a compliment, not an insult.
>islam was seen as a christian heresy
Well, technically speaking, there are convincing historical arguments it is (e.g., certain verses of the Koran only make thematic sense in Aramaic -- indicating it was a poor Arabic translation of a Syro-Aramaic Christian text), but you can make the argument that Christianity was also a israeli heresy.
I think there was a lot of confusion back then what Muslims even were. The song of Roland even describes them as demon worshippers, right?
This is a meme, and even if it was true in the early days of Christian-Muslim interactions it was certainly not true in Dante's time. No orthodox Christian considered Muslims to be heretical Christians or thought they had any chance of going to heaven.
Is that why Dante placed Muhammad among the schismatics?
"islamic intellectual brilliance", god, you fricking homosexual, stop projecting your imaginary shitlib phantasmagories into the past
yes yes mudslimes did nuthin dem just copied
>history is when my biases are projected into the past and I interpret evidence according to what I think happened, or should have happened
Just keep regurgitating the ossified clichés of people you agree with, you unoriginal moron.
I find both liberals who think they invented everything as stupid as conservatives who think they did nothing worthy. You are both morons and deserving to one another.
thank you, enlightened centrist, really cool.
Why do you see everything in terms of left/center/right? It's like your new religion.
>did nothing worthy.
What is worthy in life? I think the human species as a whole has been a massive failure.
Because politics are religion, get with the times.
better than being a moron like yourself who think the only answer to insane schizo liberals is to do the exact opposite
you are reactionary in the literal sense, whatever liberals spout you have to take the other side
maybe you think that would ownthelibs or anything
This
It is a religion and whatever the opposing side says must be wrong no matter what.
If Karl Marx said 2+2=4 these people would speculate about how it could be 5.
Dante liked Saladin. He also liked Muslim philosophers. Make of that what you want.
>Limbo basically a "You're not Christian but are far too based to go to hell so here's a not-Elysium" realm
>Saladin chills with fricking Caesar (probably my favorite mental image), basically the based department of history
>NOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST DO THAT
What an absolute homosexual.
>These cultural representations usually depict the ‘Orient’ as primitive, irrational, violent, despotic, fanatic, and essentially inferior to the westerner or native informant
Is this not true? Is the middle east more advanced, more rational, less violent, more democratic, less religious and essentially superior to western culture?
It was 4000 years ago, 3000 years ago 2500 years ago and 1000 years ago
Europe was in same level for few centuries and only advance in the last few centuries
How did they manage to become the shitholes they are today from an incomparably better starting position? Imagine losing to the dumb barbarian whitey when you start more than halfway to the finish line.
Because nothing is static and everything changes.
Europeans see their last few centuries of superiority as historical inevitability. This is why they cannot cope with the fact China is surpassing them today. While for Chinese-Indians-Menaoids who experienced rises and falls in their history before the change of fates is not an anomaly.
I don't envy the Chinese at all
Let me correct myself. You are angry about the fact you are losing your dominance. While for the Chinese or the Indian losing or gaining power are just cycles that happen to everyone.
what dominance, boomers pushed us into a nosedive before we were even born and now we are trying to bail out before we hurtle into the ground
you really need to put down the postmodernist rhetoric, you don't have us all figured out
For some reason, a lot of people have this thing where they imagine every single one of their opponents in a broad category is literally the same person unless proven otherwise. Or that they are all easily defineable and think the same, so you get bizzarre gotcha attempts where someone just imagines you as a guy and points out some imagined characteristic or contradiction.
Originally it was an art current that had a bit of a fetish for the orient, copying "oriental" style and the like. Orientalists made not particularly accurate paintings of Arabic scenes and shit like that, technically it's also a romanticization and distortion of all things "eastern" so to speak. From China to the middle east/ north Africa and through India.
Have a cute picture in the orientalist style.
I don't get your example. That's supposed to be Salome from the New testament, right? Is the distortion that she looks beautiful? Wasn't that the point of her character in the story? Is the distortion that there are no seductive women in the Mddle east?
Not an example I just used this pic because I think Salome is cute. And I phrased it incorrectly, the distortion is that mostr orientalists had never gone to the middle east. I think.
Stop blaming boomers for 1700 -1900. That was the industrial revolution. Take a look at population growth charts and see the evidence for yourself. Also ask yourself who made all those boomers and who taught them. Boomers had no more choice in being here than we do. Boomer hatred is so erroneous.
The European cradle is four thousand years older than the Egypto-Akkadian.
yes ooga booga otzi the iceman cradle
All of the monuments in Britain predate the pyramids. Vinca-Varna had writing,pottery,advanced mining operations,and more worked metal goods than would appear collectively across the middle east despite covering only one tenth the size. Egypt was a backwater and shemcels were plagiarizers who ended up being a collection of footnotes in the history of Europa universal.
Europe opened its borders and deliberately selected fleeing criminals of these countries in order to create a tense environment for various geopolitical objectives.
>A high-ranking Iranian judiciary official said some European countries provide refuge for those people who are prosecuted in Iran on security or economic charges, instead of cooperating with Tehran for their extradition.
http://www.irandailyonline.ir/News/269932.html
Iran is a gangster regime that regularly arrest westerners/their own diaspora on bogus spying charges just to try to trade them against their own captured terrorists/spies. Absolute joke of a state.
Europe is deliberately accepting Iranian criminals (e.g. rapists) who are fleeing fleeing from justice. Also, you sound israeli. Iran isn't a threat to anyone but Israel.
Why do you people never question the assumptions underlying your discussions? What does it even mean to be "advanced", and why should we view societal "development" in a quasi-Hegelian dialectic of greater "progress"?
The vast majority of both the far right and left are **both** (philosophical) progressivists. Progressivism's meaning was not excluded to modern inclusive diversity or "helping marginalized people" in the past; progressivism used to mean the belief that mankind is moving towards "self-perfection, glory, greatness" via technological and industrial "development/progress/innovation".
Why do zoomers and most "scholars" nowadays feel like complete lobotomized idiots incapable of asking the real questions?
Wake up. The human species has been an immense failure. At this point, only Ulrich Horstmann offers a viable solution.
I'm... a progressivist for wanting, no, expecting the space age to happen? Good to know.
If you believe there is some kind of telos that involves mankind reaching "greater heights", then you are.
All transhumanists and pro-industrial homosexuals are depraved lunatics. The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
Mh... I don't see why progress and care for ecological sustainability are mutually exclusive. Everyone wants clean air in their cities.
They're mutually exclusive. That's obvious to anyone who studies the devastating loss of biodiversity and the immense level of environmental pollution. You can fill volumes on pollution and loss of biodiversity. From oil spills to PCBs to microplastics to the bleaching of coral reefs and overfishing and so on and so on.
Overcrowding is bad for both people and the environment. Look up research into "behavioral sinks".
Also, freedom and autonomy cannot coexist with technological "evolution". Read Ted Kaczynski's manifesto with an open mind.
The behavioral sink is a very interesting topic for me because I still can't believe almost no one has thought that all the new technologies and lifestyles we pushed in the last 200~ years might have adverse and unforeseen effects.
We live in strange times, very strange times. Times that no other human has lived through before.
Yes, this is why I recommend you read Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. He talks about all of this with more depth and profundity, and it's only around 35k words long. If you like it, you can read his other works too, but I haven't started them yet.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/unabomber/manifesto.text.htm
Ludwig Klages is also relevant and may convince you more than Ted Kaczynski.
Thanks for the tip, I'll check those 2 philosophers out.
Nothing wrong with wanting but nothing is certain in history, rid yourself of whig delusions that we are always progressing towards something inevitable and better.
Don't engage with likely underage morons with a soapbox like this
QRD on the meaning of orientalism?
Every time I see it being used it just seems to be some buzzword thrown in the make the user sound sophisticated, or as part of some generic seethe about the West.
>I haven't read this book, let me complain about its contents
>you can't just study the history and literature of the middle east after the classical period as a European ! Stop you're being an orientalist nooooo AAAAIIIEEEEEEEEEE
what a little b***h.
Anyone can do history the same way anyone can do origami. Imagine if you went to the origami board and told them your style was better because you have a degree in it. You would be ridiculed.
Refute the book
>Anything a white person does to help a black person also raises their own moral standing and is therefore in their own interest and is therefore a racist act.
so its critical race theory for asians. ironic name though, considering orient[al] is a wholly european created classification that asians perceive as a denigration. is that because its one of those cringy 'reclaiming the word' public performances? like with the words, bawd and homosexual?
did this board became more moronic again? why are you idiots not capable of discussing this topic without using stupid memes like muh liberals. fricking /misc/tards.
postcolonialism is influenced by the decolonization period after ww2, so on the one hand these authors ( fanon, said, et cetera ) tried to expose the inherit essentialism "the west" projected onto the people of the orient, on the other hand they used "strategic essentialism" for their political struggle to make up a cohesive political movements against "the west" they also essentialized.
yes, fricking /misc/Black folk, they do the same thing as you do: particularist essentialism.
>mmm this boot is so fricking delicious
>Essentialism is the view that objects have a set of attributes that are necessary to their identity
And this is le bad, because...?
because it's not true especially when talking about people and these supposed attributes are often ridiculous
You wouldn't be upset at all if people essentialized groups that you don't like. Say, /misc/tards. So might as well be honest and just admit that you really don't like it when people say mean things about brown people.
being a /misc/tard is a choice
it's a specific group of
>people
believing specific bullshit
it's not a random collection of people singled out because colour of their body parts
your cope is invalid
You just randomly added "choice" to argue in favor of essentialism, thereby proving his point.
Statistically certain behaviours can be attributed to certain groups and the complaint that this essentialises the group is not. You can make a claim that x group is y times more likely to do z act and that is rooted in physical reality not philosophical essentialism
This is fine
>Icelandic people are more likely to suffer inbred genes than other European groups
vs
>Icelandic people are all inbreds and this informs all their ideas and behaviours
Sure but a lot of the claims that Said makes about westerners being dismissive of the Orient can be said to be unfounded since the physical reality of the Orient is similar to the Wests perception of it. A random person from the middle east is more likely to be more religious, traditionalist, steeped in dogma and ritual then a westerner. That's not saying that all of them are like that but a significant enough percentage is that complaints about orientalism is just a critique of the west treating all orientals as backwards when in reality only most of them are backwards
A lot of those are LIES though
Orientalism is all about depicting foreign places falsely while claiming them to be true - the popular image of the carpet-loving harem-having robe-pirates as depicted in numerous French dime-novels is not real.
I know that man. My point was that Said also takes a lot of liberties and lumps all western opinions about the orient in one heap. He presents the west as a place that perceives the orient as barbarous and that they create a fictional narrative like the harem one you mentioned. But at the same time he lumps genuine criticism of certain eastern practices as orientalism. Even is you can show that objectively the orient engages in certain behaviours , Iike let's say honour killings at an alarming rate, you are still called an orientalist. And that's my point. Said rejects both the lies the west makes about the orient, but also the truths.
Because dumbass Americans and westerners were on TV in the 70s and 80z saying stupid shit. Pretending to be smart and using a biblical education. reference to talk about 20th c Middle East
And Said is right to criticize those types of people that talk about things they don't know anything about like they were experts
It’s because those people were propagandists trying to sway public opinion during the Cold War on an issue which Said was deeply invested in (Israel palestine conflict). Said wanted the US media to be full of Arab nationalists I guess.
It seems like it's just replacing one propaganda and warped worldview with another one
That’s what he wants. Net result is that we should get a more “balanced view” and he’d probably say that’s all he really wants.
But if Arabs didn’t want to be imperialized then they should have fought harder against the French and British. Many of them even joined with the Europeans in ww1 in hopes they would be given some puppet kingdom to rule. Then they cooperated with the British in mandate Palestine in hopes of being given preferential treatment while the israeli settlers were bombing them and organizing for independence.
Then they managed to lose like 6 wars. And they had a good chance to win a the first three had they not been jostling for power among each other and managed to be competent.
Yes but being an Comparative and English lit professor all he can do is find old European authors who set their novels in the Middle East and fill it with fantasy objects. Then he claims well this is still going on. Not wrong but also not super relevant. Kind of the start of the “don’t appropriate my culture thing”. But he’s really pissed about the political implications of westerners trusting these ignoramuses.
It's not like you can educate the average person to get them to have a well thought out opinion about middle eastern politics. Most people will just consume easily digestible media and then vote and act on that. The same applies to non westerners. How many arabs can have an unbiased look on, let's say Estonian geopolitics, history and way of life. They won't know anything about Estonia so they will trust experts that will also have their own biases so their opinion is tainted either way.
As I said he was seething.
Most Arabs are very ignorant and Said himself wrote a book about Europe-Middle East 1500-1900 without mentioning the Ottomans more than once or twice. How is that even possible? If he wanted to study this topic he’d need to learn Ottoman Turkish and become an Ottomanist but he had no competency in that and as an Arab nationalist basically opposed the Ottoman Empire.
He was part of the secular socialist Arab nationalism movement.
The religious Arabs unironically know more about the Middle East and it’s history than he does and the orientalist scholars of Islam know more than he does too.
Also I'm not a westerner nor am I from the orient so I guess I can look at this from less of a biased point
That put me in mind of that Napier quote
>Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs.
Is your opinion that people groups don't have attributes or that people have attributes, but some of them are wrong?
Redpill on Edward Said.
It's strange how Westerners aren't allowed our own perceptions of the world. Everyone else can have their own vernacular way of looking at other people and cultures, but when we do it it's evil.
You didn't read the book
Neither did you
If you're going to "no u" at least have a basis for doing do you imbecile
It is because the western outlook is positive, ie. fact, and no one likes the truth.
>500 pages of relations between a Europe and Middle East especially covering 1500-1900
>check index
>Turks, Turkey, Ottomans mentioned 3 times.
Dropped it and stopped reading immediately. He is talking about his own 20th c nationalist Arab project and he’s just seething that Europeans didn’t give him a free country like he believes they did to Israel.
>"give him" a country
Eurotrash have no right to divy off anything beyond their shithole you dumb roach
Westerners would need to speak Turkish and Arabic and Farsi on a large scale to understand the Middle East. They do not.
Said was seething but westerners as a rule knew little about the Middle East.
The issue is that Said picks on actual orientalists and orientalist was basically a term for Near/Middle East studies and later East Asian studies.
Many orientalists were very good at their job and astute scholars. Said picks on them without cause or cherry picks bad ones.
More interestingly is the fact that orientalist was not a random hobby job. It was sponsored by university and governments to get more working knowledge of these areas to do more trade to do more politics and eventually to govern and rule and invade.
That doesn’t mean the people who studied it weren’t actually interested in these topics or weren’t good at their job but they were motivated with a research program that was designed to rule the area effectively.
It’s just more deconstruction and postmodernist drivel.
I told my advisor this and he acknowledged that it’s meta bullshit.
Imagine your claim to fame is not discovering, but complaining.
Imagine thinking that there is anything left to discover in humanities.
Considering the humanities is censored, yes. There is a lot to be discovered.
It’s funny that orientalist became a slur word in left wing academia.
So calling someone an orientalist! You’re an orientalist.!
It’s really like saying you’re a sociologist!
You’re a classicist!
You’re a Latinist!
You’re a Russian studies scholar!
When I graduate my archaeology degree I can assure you I would rather destroy the findings than be forced to submitting them to globohomosexual propaganda
Incredibly based but entirely unnecessary
As long as it's based...
If you find yourself mid-cringe you already know what to do
For one he over estimates the impact of western orientalist imagery. In his social circle(Christian Arab nationalist secular socialist) it was important to learn French and English and read Europeans. Well if he read a book by Europeans about his own country and region, he’d be upset that his heroes didn’t admire him all that much.
If he was a traditional conservative Arab scholar (Muslim), he wouldn’t give a shit what some European French guy thought about the Middle East. But as he expected his heroes to love him back he was surprised to find that many just wanted to use him and his people to attack the ottomans from the rear and didn’t respect him.
So the book is a very personal seethe and cope about this man’s intellectual journey and he is not courageous or clever enough to notice the reality and mention it. Instead he just seethes and copes and cries.
Why this got blown out of proportion by US left wing academics and put everywhere I don’t know. This book shouldn’t be as famous as it is, and I’m glad that it’s more or less dead everywhere except for some left wing departments.
Have you read the book?
They had me read this in Berkeley’s history of rhetoric survey class. It was a waste and so was the class but I don’t think even Middle East classes really read this anymore and that’s good. Actual Middle East studies (or oriental studies in UK) cover factual and language studies of the region.
Not some personal cope biographic seethe.