/lgbt/rannies say that greeks are homosexuals
/pol/chuds say that it's israelite propaganda/rewriting history, and greeks were not gay at all
But reading Symposium I couldn't remind myself of a bigger homosexualtery book than this
I wonder how rightoids cope with the fact that the culture they venerate so much had fluid notions of gender and prized homosexuality and other forms of sexual deviancy? This is a huge contradiction at the heart of right wing ideology.
/lgbt/rannies say that greeks are homosexuals
/pol/chuds say that it's israelite propaganda/rewriting history, and greeks were not gay at all
But reading Symposium I couldn't remind myself of a bigger homosexualtery book than this
He however walked back on this position later in life, and many other authors were vehemently against pederastry
That's besides the fact there were many cities and ages with different laws and culture in what we define "ancient greece"
So no, greeks weren't gay, some, in some city-states, at some determinate times, were.
In the Symposium Plato makes it clear that gays shouldn’t have sexual intercourse. Not exactly pro gay in a modern sense.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah but for the time he still made the bold implication pederastry was ok even when sexual
Though as I said, I recollect him changing his mind on this later in life
5 months ago
Anonymous
No he didn't. The one that did was Pausanias in the dialogue along with minor comments from other other speakers. The most egregious was Aristophanes who outright says that sex between male and female was bad and the true way was male-male female-female, and Socrates BTFOs Aristophanes at the end. The words of the speakers prior to Socrates are the competing views of love, with Socrates speaking against homosex in no uncertain terms.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Aristophanes was sarcastic and ironic, the work only exists because Plato was seething at him for mocking Euripides in The Frogs.
5 months ago
Anonymous
The implication is pretty anti-pedophilia even if Socrates says things to the contrary. The discussion about pedophilia being good is squished once Athen's favorite traitor butt boy shows up, same with how the Meno presents the fruits of such a relationship.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>In the Symposium Plato makes it clear that gays shouldn’t have sexual intercourse
Just so we're clear: the Athenians didn't practice sodomy, which was a crime punishable by death for both parties. Rather, they practice thigh-fricking, wherein the older man would frick the thighs of the younger boy. Aristophanes was a sexual degenerate by the standards of Athens at the time.
Many great right-wingers have been homosexual. The recent trend in right-wing thinking of homophobia is thusly unessential to it and your post becomes moot in the broader context of the history of political thought. Next.
I wonder how rightoids cope with the fact that the culture they venerate so much had fluid notions of gender and prized homosexuality and other forms of sexual deviancy? This is a huge contradiction at the heart of right wing ideology.
Plato was pro gay and he wrote the book
[...]
He however walked back on this position later in life, and many other authors were vehemently against pederastry
That's besides the fact there were many cities and ages with different laws and culture in what we define "ancient greece"
So no, greeks weren't gay, some, in some city-states, at some determinate times, were.
>He however walked back on this position later in life, and many other authors were vehemently against pederastry >That's besides the fact there were many cities and ages with different laws and culture in what we define "ancient greece" >So no, greeks weren't gay, some, in some city-states, at some determinate times, were.
This. Also in the Symposium the very Alcibiades talks to his servant that he should close his ears, because he probably wouldn't "understand" it or something, before telling the story of how he tried to seduce Socrates.
Which makes me conclude that at this time in Athens it was mostly a thing of higher class individuals, and not something totally aproved by the general population, even if it was present in their myths?
Interestingly enough, Aristophanes also goes on a rant about how the youths of his time are getting too afeminate to his tastes.
But I don't remember exactly. How was it?
"They fight naked, they adress each other in this homosexual voice, they wear coats when they go to school". kek
Somewhat to the effect of, "even if you're gay stop behaving like women. That's disgusting."
Not to mention that homosexual marriage was something completely unthinkable to a greek.
Family is a man and a woman, you have a duty to your city past a certain age, so on.
I started Timaeus as my first foray into the Greeks - it seems to be about some obscure metaphysics of the world. I'm having trouble getting my head around it - am I simply a brainlet or should I have started with something else?
Timaeus and Parmenides are the worst texts to start with. Go for the narrative route first, which is the explanation of the life and death of Socrates. >Euthyphro >Apology >Crito >Phaedo
And then you can see why he was executed in >Meno >Gorgias >Symposium
Those are the basics. You could even start with Gorgias-Meno-Symposium first if you are okay with slightly thicker texts. If you're used to philosophy, it might be better.
they aren't homosexual. they like shotas and e-girls. thats not homosexual. homos like muscular hulk like dudes in their mid 30s. none of the characters of the symposium are like that.
Okay, somehow fricking a male that's the same age as a female they marry isn't gay. Am I really to believe that the youths had no sexual attraction to who they fricked?
quite high, don't forget the greek factor and philosophy multiplier in your calculations
Yes, they were Aristophanes the rich homosexual pedophile in charge of Athen's equivalent of Hollywood, Eryximachus another elite, and you, OP.
OP was belle of the ball.
/lgbt/rannies say that greeks are homosexuals
/pol/chuds say that it's israelite propaganda/rewriting history, and greeks were not gay at all
But reading Symposium I couldn't remind myself of a bigger homosexualtery book than this
I wonder how rightoids cope with the fact that the culture they venerate so much had fluid notions of gender and prized homosexuality and other forms of sexual deviancy? This is a huge contradiction at the heart of right wing ideology.
Plato was pro gay and he wrote the book
He however walked back on this position later in life, and many other authors were vehemently against pederastry
That's besides the fact there were many cities and ages with different laws and culture in what we define "ancient greece"
So no, greeks weren't gay, some, in some city-states, at some determinate times, were.
In the Symposium Plato makes it clear that gays shouldn’t have sexual intercourse. Not exactly pro gay in a modern sense.
Yeah but for the time he still made the bold implication pederastry was ok even when sexual
Though as I said, I recollect him changing his mind on this later in life
No he didn't. The one that did was Pausanias in the dialogue along with minor comments from other other speakers. The most egregious was Aristophanes who outright says that sex between male and female was bad and the true way was male-male female-female, and Socrates BTFOs Aristophanes at the end. The words of the speakers prior to Socrates are the competing views of love, with Socrates speaking against homosex in no uncertain terms.
Aristophanes was sarcastic and ironic, the work only exists because Plato was seething at him for mocking Euripides in The Frogs.
The implication is pretty anti-pedophilia even if Socrates says things to the contrary. The discussion about pedophilia being good is squished once Athen's favorite traitor butt boy shows up, same with how the Meno presents the fruits of such a relationship.
>In the Symposium Plato makes it clear that gays shouldn’t have sexual intercourse
Just so we're clear: the Athenians didn't practice sodomy, which was a crime punishable by death for both parties. Rather, they practice thigh-fricking, wherein the older man would frick the thighs of the younger boy. Aristophanes was a sexual degenerate by the standards of Athens at the time.
Many great right-wingers have been homosexual. The recent trend in right-wing thinking of homophobia is thusly unessential to it and your post becomes moot in the broader context of the history of political thought. Next.
>fluid notions of gender
No. Also, kys.
>the culture they venerate so much
Our culture is Greek, for the most part, regardless of your politics
>He however walked back on this position later in life, and many other authors were vehemently against pederastry
>That's besides the fact there were many cities and ages with different laws and culture in what we define "ancient greece"
>So no, greeks weren't gay, some, in some city-states, at some determinate times, were.
This. Also in the Symposium the very Alcibiades talks to his servant that he should close his ears, because he probably wouldn't "understand" it or something, before telling the story of how he tried to seduce Socrates.
Which makes me conclude that at this time in Athens it was mostly a thing of higher class individuals, and not something totally aproved by the general population, even if it was present in their myths?
Interestingly enough, Aristophanes also goes on a rant about how the youths of his time are getting too afeminate to his tastes.
But I don't remember exactly. How was it?
"They fight naked, they adress each other in this homosexual voice, they wear coats when they go to school". kek
Somewhat to the effect of, "even if you're gay stop behaving like women. That's disgusting."
Not to mention that homosexual marriage was something completely unthinkable to a greek.
Family is a man and a woman, you have a duty to your city past a certain age, so on.
As we saw, you're actually giving us ammunition.
Sweetie, where do you think you are?
I started Timaeus as my first foray into the Greeks - it seems to be about some obscure metaphysics of the world. I'm having trouble getting my head around it - am I simply a brainlet or should I have started with something else?
Timaeus and Parmenides are the worst texts to start with. Go for the narrative route first, which is the explanation of the life and death of Socrates.
>Euthyphro
>Apology
>Crito
>Phaedo
And then you can see why he was executed in
>Meno
>Gorgias
>Symposium
Those are the basics. You could even start with Gorgias-Meno-Symposium first if you are okay with slightly thicker texts. If you're used to philosophy, it might be better.
start with the 'five dialogues' + symposium
I mean, it was drinking party for a successful theater play. If anything I'm surprised it had normal people in it.
>I mean, it was drinking party for a successful theater play. If anything I'm surprised it had normal people in it.
kek
The best part is still Socrates getting lost on the way there.
GayREEKs are the same culture who worshiped these things, so you tell me if it's a coincidence or not
they aren't homosexual. they like shotas and e-girls. thats not homosexual. homos like muscular hulk like dudes in their mid 30s. none of the characters of the symposium are like that.
>hentaibrained homosexual is a moron
Who's fricking the "e-girls and shotas" (actually pubescent teenagers) if not the men in their 30s?
>reading comprehension
He's saying the adults aren't attracted to and fricking other adults.
Okay, somehow fricking a male that's the same age as a female they marry isn't gay. Am I really to believe that the youths had no sexual attraction to who they fricked?
Plato went woke.
Gross...ancient butt-divers...can you imagine how inestimably repulsive their hygiene must have been!? Blegh!