Who was better: the whites or reds?
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Who was better: the whites or reds?
Who was better: the whites or reds?
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whites would have given Russia a better economic, cultural and demographic future overall
Reds were just better at fighting in the immediate short-term
Even though the whites were christian, they were pretty oppressive with the serfdom shit going into the 19th century when they finally eased up on it. The Tsar had a secret police that fricked over people who were suspected of being revolutionary. I don't know if this would've continued and the Tsar doubled down on his efforts to stay in power or it would've turned into a democracy.
>The Tsar had a secret police that fricked over people who were suspected of being revolutionary
Yeah I wonder why they were a bit paranoid about that
The Soviets did exactly what the Tsar did except in a more intense manner. The Okhrana tortured people suspected of being against the state for decades before. To me, the Soviet Union was just a continuation of the Russian Empire except with new management.
Forgot to say that the Tsar started the tradition of banishing people in Siberia and making them work in camps.
You can compare living conditions of Lenin or Stalin in their Siberian exiles to living conditions of their victims. The difference is roughly the same as between modern Swedish prison and Nazi concentration camp, I shit you not. Sadly, the late Romanovs were unbelievably soft on the murderous commies.
>they were pretty oppressive with the serfdom shit going into the 19th century
This is the most bizarre argument I've ever seen. It's like saying that Americans were the "oppressive" ones in WWII because slavery and shit. Pure moronation.
The fact that some Imperials were thinking about reimplementing serfdom says a lot about them.
I highly doubt that the conditions were that different, just the quantity of people were higher in the USSR.
>I highly doubt
Of course you do.
>they were pretty oppressive with the serfdom shit going into the 19th century when they finally eased up on it
Serfdom was abolished in 1861, dumbass, more than half a century before the civil war
>The Tsar had a secret police that fricked over people who were suspected of being revolutionary
>The Okhrana tortured people suspected of being against the state for decades before
It's funny how you projecting cheka barbarity onto okhrana, while most likely never read memoirs of terrorists you so worship, where they complain about how boring is to sit in the cell for murdering a dozen of civilians in another assassination attempt on some official. Of course that's worse than something like pulling off fingernails and other tortures... You c**ts are just unbelievable
>Serfdom was abolished in 1861, dumbass, more than half a century before the civil war
Slavery was abolished in the US yet sharecropping was a thing for decades. Same situation there.
>It's funny how you projecting cheka barbarity onto okhrana, while most likely never read memoirs of terrorists you so worship, where they complain about how boring is to sit in the cell for murdering a dozen of civilians in another assassination attempt on some official. Of course that's worse than something like pulling off fingernails and other tortures... You c**ts are just unbelievable
I'm not a communist you dipshit. The tsar's okhrana was just as ruthless ans they tortured people. Reason why people revolted in the first place, cause life sucked, but they didn't know it could be worse.
>I'm not a communist you dipshit
You are a moron in any case
>Slavery was abolished in the US yet sharecropping was a thing for decades. Same situation there.
Peasants were the largest land owners in late Russian Empire. After the revolution they owned nothing, zero, you understand that you stupid bastard?
>The tsar's okhrana was just as ruthless ans they tortured people
You homosexual keep saying that, with nothing to prove your words
>You are a moron in any case
Keep seething wienersucking slime
>Peasants were the largest land owners in late Russian Empire. After the revolution they owned nothing, zero, you understand that you stupid bastard?
Totally
>You homosexual keep saying that, with nothing to prove your words
>Despite the reforms[9] in the early 19th century, the practice of torture was never truly abolished.[10] Possibly, the formation of the Okhrana led to increasing use of torture,[11] due to the Okhrana using methods such as arbitrary arrest, detention and torture to gain information.[12] Claims persisted the Okhrana had operated torture chambers in places like Warsaw, Riga, Odessa and in a majority of the urban centres.[13]
>Possibly
>Claims
GTFO homosexual
>wienersucking slime
That your job to suck commie wieners , you seems to enjoy that
>Can't locate secret police torture chambers, must mean they don't exist
Kill your self shitbag.
But we can locate secret soviet police torture chambers in Lubyanka, what's your excuse, c**t?
The Tsar did a better job and I wouldn't be surprised if the torture chambers used by soviets were just refurnished Tsarist torture chambers. Go suck a wiener, cum-guzzler.
who won?
white russia would be nigeria with snow but since 1910s not 1990s
because tsarist russia was a massive shithole?
ehhh...
Are you moronic? Of couse you are, since you're a dumb commie. Your shitty commie "utopia" never even reached the level of prosperity of the late Russian Empire. Only starve the population and work it to death. Couldn't even provide the basic necessities even by the end of it miserable existence. Sold the treasures of culture to the west so that american engineers build you factories and european capitalists sell you tractors and other machinery. Commie homosexuals have an audacity to call Russia "backward shithole" while imperial rifles, artillery, navy and railroads saved this geopolitical mistake called Soviet Union from nazi hordes.
either shitty bait or you are moronic
Disprove me homosexual, on every point
1st one is demonstrably false and the rest is incoherent, ridiculous cope
imperial russia didn't have enough rifles to arm it's own army and you are saying they won the war?
>imperial russia didn't have enough rifles to arm it's own army and you are saying they won the war?
By the end of 1915 Russia had enouth ammunition and weapons not only for WW1 but also for a civil war, how would you explain that you stupid commie c**t?
>1st one is demonstrably false and the rest is incoherent, ridiculous cope
You see, you can't disprove me, and that's the real cope, and that's the only thing you can do, cope, in your sect of the failed ideology
don't drop your nicolas ii icon while shaking from all the seethe
How is that feel to worship dead ideology?
How does it feel to get overtaken by that "dead ideology"?
Chinese fascism is based
Impotent cope
Chinese capitalism?
>How does it feel to get overtaken by that "dead ideology"?
China is a Confucian, Chinese nationalist state. Marxism is just window-dressing ideology for it - its dead there.
China is absolutely based if you're conservative and capitalist.
>“Africans bring many security risks,” Pan Qinglin told local media (link in Chinese). As a member of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference, the nation’s top political advisory body, he urged the government to “strictly control the African people living in Guangdong and other places.”
> “Black brothers often travel in droves; they are out at night out on the streets, nightclubs, and remote areas. They engage in drug trafficking, harassment of women, and fighting, which seriously disturbs law and order in Guangzhou… Africans have a high rate of AIDS and the Ebola virus that can be transmitted via body fluids… If their population [keeps growing], China will change from a nation-state to an immigration country, from a yellow country to a black-and-yellow country.”
>were the guys with the priest on their side better than the murderous communists?
moron
the blues
Whites. No USSR and likely no Hitler since they really depended on screeching about Bolshevism to gain support.
Whites would have saved russia
Reds literally buck broke russia for eternity and made them souless bugmen mutts
its hard to say since on one hand we know what the reds eventually ended up being, but that being said the whites weren't good to begin with especially since they were a clusterfrick of competing groups and ideologies to the point even if they won, its likely Russia would just sink further into shithole status due to political unrest
Whites, only hypocritical commies nowadays think otherwise, those are the same kind of people that will defend China or even North Korea even when it makes no sense for them to do so ideologically.
>hypocritical
id love to see you justify this one
>defend China or even North Korea even when it makes no sense for them to do so ideologically.
and this also
Justify what exactly?
The kind of brain damage in dogmatic commies is what leads to some modern leftists to even support Russia today, because they are so out of touch with reality as to not understand how countries even align to their ideals.
so you cannot
good to know
>talks like a moron
>doesn't get a response
>"I won"
Sure
China's the only third world country to see any dramatic economic growth since the soviet collapse, and it's because of the existence of the CCP. You are on the wrong side of history and are losing no matter how much you whine about it on /misc/ and have rich people funnel money into rightwing movements that serve to do nothing but cause disorder and erosion in their host countries.
China is capitalist and it's beautiful.
The Chinese Communist Party controls the corporations. When have you heard of an American billionaire being executed?
The National Socialist German Workers' Party could execute dissenting business executives too that doesn't mean Nazi Germany wasn't capitalist.
China is rich exactly because it's not communist and it's rather like many right wing parties want to structure their society.
Thanks for literally 100% confirming my beliefs on how braindead and inconsistent your beliefs are.
>no true socialism
You are afraid aren't you
You are either mentally ill or underage, either way you aren't scoring any gotchas here.
China is litterally a Natsoc society LARPing as marxists
Greens
The Whites were comically incompetent and everything other than fighting so once the Red army got its shit together the Whites didn't stand a chance.
The Whites relied on foreign support for their munitions and weaponry, failed to form a coherent political program and were incapable of making tactical sacrifices in foreign policy for the sake of achieving a victory at home.
>The Whites were comically incompetent
Elaborate by comparing them to the Bolsheviks.
Sure. The bolsheviks managed to build a state out of the ruins of the Russian Empire.
Regardless of what you think about their ideology, they succeeded at setting up a government, creating a brand new secret service, turning armed gangs into an army and keeping the industry working at a level which was enough to supply said army.
In the process they made very shrewd foreign policy decisions to stay in power. When Lenin realised that the revolution couldn't be exported to Finalnd and the baltic republics, their independence of all 4 was recognised.
Compare this to the Whites whose dogmatic MUH ONE AND INDIVISIBLE RUSSIA left them isolated.
The Whites also failed at building a state in any of the territories which they controlled. Siberia and the Far East were a complete shitshow. Cossack atamans (Kolchak never had any real power and couldn't rein them in) controlled by the Japanese terrorised the population and managed to turn a peasantry that was indifferent to the bolsheviks against the Whites.
The ones in the north of the country and Denikin's bunch got the closest to setting up a state apparatus but both still relied heavily on the Entente, which made them look like foreign puppets in the eyes of the population.
This combined with the inability to come up with an ideology explains why the white armies were so low in numbers. Nobody was drawn to the movement since its leaders literally couldn't explain what they were fighting for.
Did they want to reestablish the old monarchical order? Were they looking to convene the Constituent Assembly? Was Kolchak going to remain the ruler of the country after a White victory? Nobody managed answer these questions in a clear way that would be understood by the largely illiterate population.
>Regardless of what you think about their ideology, they succeeded at setting up a government, creating a brand new secret service, turning armed gangs into an army and keeping the industry working at a level which was enough to supply said army.
They took over the core of the Russian territory, of course they had more success creating a coherent government compares to the whites that had to fight from Siberia or the south.
I can go on and on. This is the greatest tragedy of the Russian Civil War: as cruel, insane and delusional as the Bolsheviks were, they were still the best option for our country, since a "White" Russia would have been a failed state dominated by the Entente powers.
Is millions of people dead (for no good reason) worth it to keep your independence?
The first answer here
was meant for you
It's impossible for Entente countries to have controlled Russia.
>they were still the best option for our country, since a "White" Russia would have been a failed state dominated by the Entente powers.
Without the bolsheviks Russia would've been the winner of the Great War in any case, even with inept, incompetent provisional government just by being the part of Entente, history is prove to that
Millions of people would have died regardless and it's impossible to know what the death toll would have been in a universe where the war ended with a White victory.
They couldn't have occupied the country sure, but their policy towards the White movement and the former Russian empire offers a glimpse into what the relations between the Entente and the new government would've been like.
Just as an example, Britain recognized the independence of Georgia and de-facto recognized the independence of oil-rich Azerbaijan. Denikin, who was committed to the one and indivisible Russia ideology, couldn't do shit about that because he relied on the British.
The situation was even worse in Siberia, parts of which were directly occupied by the Japanese army and in our timeline only a Red victory combined with US diplomatic pressure eventually got them to abandon their gains.
That's just speculation. The army was in a state of collapse as evidenced by the failed July offensive so we really can't say for sure what would've happened if not for the October revolution.
Losing Georgia or Azerbaijan is not the end of the world and given that an entente power helped the Soviets in getting back the Japanese-occupied land then surely they wouldn't lose land in the East under a White government either.
>The Whites also failed at building a state in any of the territories which they controlled.
Neither the Reds did.
Both the Soviet state and the White statelets were in state of half-anarchy during the civil war. If you read about the first soviet policies, you can see that it was as incoherent and messy as the Whites policies. It's just that the Reds had more resources and more coherent ideology.
Whites. The monarchy was far less tyrannical than the Bolsheviks.
>Who was better: the whites or reds?
Whites obviously. Reds were nothing but plague that only brought death and misery
RAPE DICK
I am so glad the russian civil war happened & that so many russians died for literally nothing 😀
I am not being satirical .
>He shills for a long dead traditional system which was shown to be entirely incompetent.
You will never be Russian.
You will never be European.
You have no Christian culture.
You are an American midget with no attachment to traditional living
All the “validation” you get is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back true White people mock you.
Your parents are embarrassed and ashamed of you, your fellow “basedbros” laugh at your role play fantasies behind closed doors.
Real Christians are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of in-group preference have allowed races to sniff out frauds with incredible efficiency.
Your BMI is a dead giveaway.
And even if you manage to get a Christian woman to come home with you, she’ll turn tail and bolt the second she gets a whiff of your moldy, corn paste and bean filled refrigerator.
You will never be a Christian monarch. You wrench out a few Ave Marias every Sunday morning and tell yourself it’s going to be ok, but deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight.
Eventually it’ll be too much to bear - you’ll buy a rope, tie a noose, put it around your neck, and plunge into the cold abyss. Your mother will find you, heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to live with the unbearable shame and disappointment.
Your body will decay and go back to the dust, and every passerby for the rest of eternity will know a non-white is buried there.
All that will remain is a skeleton that is unmistakably a manlet.
You will never own the means of production.
You will never have free healthcare.
You will never have UBI.
You will never have free housing.
You will never raise the USSR flag over Russia again.
You will never raise the Berlin Wall again.
You will never have world revolution.
You will never have world communism.
You will never a party leader or member of a Marxist-Leninist state.
You will never obliterate religion.
You will never defeat NATO.
Bernie Sanders will never be president.
You will never pay off your student loans.
You will never have free college.
You will never be a woman or pass as one.
yup this is the gayest thread on IQfy