Why was Russia so obsessed with this?
Would it really have made a massive difference if they had managed to capture it in the 19th century?
Yeah, they wouldn't be stuck in the Black Sea anymore, but now they'd just be in the Mediterranean. And at odds with Britain.
Probably the biggest threat to the British empire instead of Germany.
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Their whole civilisation is based around sucking and bowing to Byzantium, larping as third rome etc... That's why they wanted it.
seethe troony
he's literally correct you fricking imbecile
Istanbul even today is immensely important both strategically and to world trade. It’s central location in Eurasia is critical. They didn’t spend hundreds of years coveting the city (they were even hoping to capture it during the First World Wars IIRC) for nothing.
>they were even hoping to capture it during the First World Wars IIRC
Christopher Clark more or less argues that the nearly the entirety of their foreign policy leading up to the war was centred around obtaining it.
I agree with this. It’s why they wanted to get into the balkans so badly.
>Istanbul even today
Today Istanbul has a larger population that the entirety of Greece. Back then Turkey was a third world country.
Having the city under their control would mean that Russia wouldn't have to pay tolls to cross the straits, but would make Britain (and probably France) an enemy. That hardly sounds worth it strategically.
The fetish for Byzantium mentioned earlier makes more sense.
>And at odds with Britain.
>but would make Britain (and probably France) an enemy
Britain already was an enemy. Russia and Britain were in open competition for Central Asia By the 1800's. British foreign policy before Salisbury was built on propping up the Ottomans as a buffer against Russia gaining influence in the Med.
Even in 1914 Britain was worried that Russia was recovering from its defeat in the Russo-Japanese War and was ready to challenge Britain again in Asia
Istanbul is an important city strategically, geographically, economically, and culturally. Taking it wouldn't have made Britain an enemy, just wanting it was enough
They'd have a permanent large warm water area with which to train a navy long term, meaning that until submarines they could ignore the Artic and even the Baltic. The other issue is all the Danubian trade flows into the Black sea.
>but would make Britain (and probably France) an enemy.
Britain was already an enemy and with Constantinople, France does not fricking matter.
The more immediate issue is that with Constantinople captured, nobody can stop Russia from openly conquering and flattening the Turks. Which means no more bothering to cater to Muslims, they can openly force them to convert or die, which means the entire southern border of the Russian Empire becomes much more secure and stable.
If Russia succeeded at this early enough, They could be a serious naval power in the 20th century. The other consequences is that the Balkans get liberated.
The expulsion of Islam from the Balkans and eventually Anatolia flips the script of the 20th century. And even without the naval power boost....even as late as 1920, securing Constantinople and securing Anatolia puts Russia and allies in a position to over run the Middle East. A devastating annoyance at the time, but the long term implications with the oil discoveries....it likely means the automobile boom doesn't happen purely out of spite towards Russia.
>dude if russia just conquers half the world, theyd be the strongest country in the world
Russia just can't stop expanding, huh? Unrelated note, historian estimated that if not for WW1, the Russian Revolution, and WW2, there'd be one hundred million more Russians in the world, not to mention the tens of millions of more Germans and Ukrainians.
>Ukrainians
That wouldn't even be a word.
>there'd be one hundred million more Russians in the world
Geez, they really fricked up.
>That hardly sounds worth it strategically.
It’s not about strait transit fees. It is about control over the straits so that Russia can move the Black Sea fleet into and out of the Mediterranean.
Maybe you just have down syndrome.
Why do they need to move it to the Mediterranean? Just the get BTFO by the Royal Navy?
moron
Look at how hard they got fricked by Japan. Better stay in your little lake, Dima.
>Look at how hard they got fricked by Japan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Japanese_War
>sunk the Pacific Navy
>sunk the Baltic Navy
>would've sunk the Black Sea Navy too if they'd gotten out of the Bosporus
>also won every land battle
Now imagine what the Royal Navy would've done to them.
Beating that dead horse in 1945 was not an impressive feat in the slightest.
Istanbul has a larger population that the entirety of Greece.
Twice, in fact, and they have nearly the same gdp.
20 million turks are as good as 10 million greeks
Crossing point between Europe and Asia. Russia also had Caucasus so they weren't gonna stop at the Bosporus.
IIRC owning the straits means they couldn't be locked out of the Mediterranean, which gives them MASSIVE leverage because then they can attack the Suez and frick Britain's connection to India.
>Why was Russia so obsessed with this?
There are two reasons: economical and ideological.
Economical is that southern regions, Ukraine in particular, are the bread basket of the country, one of the main sources of exported goods. Diverting shipping from the northern paths would cut the shipping costs and offer a competitive advantage against other traders.
Ideological is simple - muh 3rd and 2nd Rome, liberation of Greece and Balkan orthodox Christians from Muslim and Catholic influence.
Third reason would be getting a gateway to middle East and Africa
Can't believe that the eternal westoids fought to keep it in the degenerate hands of the Osmanoglu dynasty.
None of you are even remotely close to being correct.
Why don't you enlighten us then?
Because your mind is all scrambled, you have some sort of conviction that you know it all, but can't form a coherent argument.
because reconquering Constantinople is the mission of a true Christian
Let's be honest here now, Islam is to (western) turks what christianity is to the majority of young people in the western world nowadays, a larp, a symbol of social acceptance, something that people say they are because "it's the right thing to do" in our societies anyways.
Do the cosmopolitan 20something year olds of Istanbul really give a shit about the cultural, historical or socio-political relevance of the city they live in?
They are probably worried about making tiktoks or having sex or whatever.
why out yourself as an american so hard?
>omg did u know your city is literally thousand years old omg its so socially and culturally important dood
like ok let me get my kebab
>Yeah, they wouldn't be stuck in the Black Sea anymore,
Which is a huge benefit
>but now they'd just be in the Mediterranean
Better than being stuck in the black sea as the mediterranean sea gives access to southern europe, the levant and northern africa - especially egypt.
>And at odds with Britain.
They already were.
>And at odds with Britain.
>They already were.
So much at odds that Britain promised to gift them Constantinople just so they wouldn't make a separate peace with Germany.
>19th century
>WW1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Berlin_(1878)