>A worm is just operating on basic unconscious reflexes to stimuli in their environment, but when an organism becomes really complex, like a human, it becomes a conscious agent with free will.
Why do people say this?
 Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
 DMT Has Friends For Me Shirt $21.68 |
Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
Emergence
Nah, you're right
Consciousness is magic and really got nothing to do with the human brain, vs. the worm's brain
>Consciousness is magic
That's what you believe, magic meat
It’s probably specific structures like the insula that cause consciousness, obviously not restricted to humans. Free will though? Debatable if it even exists. Highly restricted and parameterized if it does. But if you don’t mean the meta-level and you just mean active thought out decision making, requires a developed frontal lobe
You’re simply not the person you would be if you were born in a different place and time, or if very different things happened to you.
Both have consciousness. People are just irrationally uncomfortable with worms being self-aware.
Consciousness is the ability to not do what your instincts tell you. In short, is the ability to say "no". A human is still bound by instincts, but he can also choose not to.
A worm can't do that. It's not that hard to understand.
Why do you say a worm can't override it's instincts but a human can? Also, define "instinct".
Obvious that he means instinctive impulses and the ability to inhibit behavior consciously.
The anti-truth and reality crowd on this board love to play dumb because an honest and flowing conversation goes in the wrong direction for them.
>Obvious that he means instinctive impulses
The whole question is what is the difference between the instinctive impulses of the worm and the consciousness of humans. Why is one just instinctive impulses but the other conscious?
>and the ability to inhibit behavior consciously.
Again, what exactly does it mean to inhibit behavior? What does a human have that a worm doesn't?
>Again, what exactly does it mean to inhibit behavior? What does a human have that a worm doesn't?
To have the urge and impulse to do something but decide not to, the frontal lobe.
Humans also have an insula that consolidates all signals into one feed, the worm does not have that.
This all being said, worms might have a basic form of consciousness, I actually am not sure if “worms aren’t conscious” is an established scientific stance. They don’t have the decision and planning making ability humans do but awareness? Maybe they do have it.
>To have the urge and impulse to do something but decide not to
And how do you know worms don't do that?
>Humans also have an insula that consolidates all signals into one feed
Why is that relevant?
>And how do you know worms don't do that?
Your premise is that worms have self control?
>Why is that relevant?
Because your consciousness is a united feed of your sensory information, emotions and memory
>Your premise is that worms have self control?
Your premise is that worms do not or cannot override their impulses. I'm asking how you know this.
Inhibition is actually a brain region specific behavioral ability that even the smartest animals can barely manage, humans have to mature into it and even many adult humans are very bad at it. It’s a highly advanced activity.
Neither you or I believe worms have impulse control. Don’t waste my time arguing against something neither you or I believe.
Do you have anything interesting to say?
So what's special about the region in the human brain that is associated with inhibition? Are there special types of neurons that worms don't have, because if not I don't see why worms can't also inhibit impulses?
I think they are conscious
>So what's special about the region in the human brain that is associated with inhibition
Structures and pathways.
>Structures and pathways.
What about them though? What is it about the structures and pathways of neurons in the human brain that allow for inhibition, but not in worms?
They do
Hell turns out they are capable of inhibitory behavior, my bad. Of course limited but basic inhibition is within worm ability. Cool stuff
>I think they are conscious
Okay and why don’t you think they have free will.
It's a supernaturalist leftover from materialist atheists being unable to cope with the fact they are forced into accepting that humans are nothing but soulless meat drones driven by electrical soup and therefore their consciousness and free will are just illusions generated by the brain.
It’s no one else’s fault but yours that you have the same understanding of reality as a Rick and Morty watching Redditor if you weren’t a gay Christian.
Calling brain activity electrical soup is a gross over-simplification, it’s an unfathomably complex electrical firing pattern and so is the neurotransmitter secretion. An X-ray vision of your CNS activity would look like a lifelong fast pulse electrical storm more organized than anything you’ve ever seen that changes pattern based on your mood and what you’re doing.
>le brain is le complex therefore emergence magic
cope overload
Speaking of differences in brain complexity, you must have responded to the wrong post, because I didn’t make that argument and that’s not where I made the explanation for a difference in worm and human executive function or subjective experience.
That's the only charitable understanding of your vomitous rambling about brains being complex, try writing a coherent refutation next time moron.
Nope I made a different case in a different post. You might as well be arguing with a mirror.
Op what is your explanation for why worms are not conscious agents with at least the subjective experience of having free will?
>but when an organism becomes really complex, like a human, it becomes a conscious agent with free will.
This happens because complexity causes the organism to gain a soul, nothing to do with neurons