Alexis de Tocqueville on Colonization of Algeria

>Around us knowledge has been extinguished, and recruitment of men of religion and men of law has ceased; that is to say, we have made Muslim society much more miserable, more disordered, more ignorant, and more barbarous than it had been before knowing us.
French bros... is this true?

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Everything within and beyond the visible spectrum that chuds deny existing has been well documented in the entire history of literature

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >some limp wristed soiboi from the 1800s said it so it must be true!
      France is, was, and always has been a civilizing force in Europe and abroad

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Some limp wristed chud said it so it must be true!
        Alexis de tocqueville is one of the most important thinkers of the 19th century

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >some effeminated cuck who has never lived in the period said it so it must be true!

        Tocqueville wrote that in the 1840s, while the war of conquest was still raging and the place was in chaos.
        So at the time, it was probably true.
        But if you look at it again in 1900 (long after the war had ended), it was very different.

        Algeria in 1900 was much more civilized than Algeria in 1830.
        France had abolished pedophilia and slavery, built tons of infrastructure, brought modern medicine that made the mortality rate drop, brought technology that improved agriculture...etc
        But of course in the 1840s, none of this had happened yet, so the only difference with 1830 was the chaos of warfare.

        >France had abolished pedophilia
        Holy projection

        >France had...built tons of infrastructure,
        I remember reading something about the numbers of airports, seaports, bridges, railroads, schools, colleges, hospitals etc built by the French in Algeria.
        Do you have any data about the numbers of these things that the French constructed?

        Most have been destroyed and rebuilt since
        Some still exist but its rare

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >France had abolished pedophilia
          >Holy projection

          They literally did
          Male on male pedophilia was rampant in pre-colonial Algeria

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            https://i.imgur.com/feRsQCO.jpg

            Pederasty was more common in france than anywhere in the fricking world so thats rich

            https://www.psupress.org/books/titles/978-0-271-08335-3.html

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            No it wasnt
            Just some homosexual twink projection that wanted to get raped by some berber bulls

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Male on male pedophilia was rampant in pre-colonial Algeria
            It was rampant in post colonial algeria too. Why do you think all those famous french authors were hanging around Marrakesh?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            https://archive.amarna-forum.net/salo/salo/007816_the-waning-of-the-british-empire-its-elites-orientalism-occultism-pederasty_p001_o.html

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Tocqueville wrote that in the 1840s, while the war of conquest was still raging and the place was in chaos.
    So at the time, it was probably true.
    But if you look at it again in 1900 (long after the war had ended), it was very different.

    Algeria in 1900 was much more civilized than Algeria in 1830.
    France had abolished pedophilia and slavery, built tons of infrastructure, brought modern medicine that made the mortality rate drop, brought technology that improved agriculture...etc
    But of course in the 1840s, none of this had happened yet, so the only difference with 1830 was the chaos of warfare.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >France had...built tons of infrastructure,
      I remember reading something about the numbers of airports, seaports, bridges, railroads, schools, colleges, hospitals etc built by the French in Algeria.
      Do you have any data about the numbers of these things that the French constructed?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >I remember reading something about the numbers of airports, seaports, bridges, railroads, schools, colleges, hospitals etc built by the French in Algeria.
        maybe this stuff
        https://books.openedition.org/pupo/3122?lang=en
        and

        http://www.lecavalierbleu.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ir_colonisation_gf2ed_extrait.pdf

        and more generally
        https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algérie_française?useskin=vector#Travaux_publics,_axes_de_communication_et_transports

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >In 1962, France bequeathed to Algeria an exceptional heritage and not “trifles” and “worthless things”, namely 54,000 kilometers of roads and tracks (80,000 with the Saharan tracks), 31 national roads including nearly 9,000 kilometers were paved, 4,300 km of railway lines, 4 ports equipped to international standards, 23 developed ports (including 10 accessible to large cargo ships and including 5 which could be served by liners), 34 maritime lighthouses, a dozen of main aerodromes, hundreds of engineering structures (bridges, tunnels, viaducts, dams, etc.), thousands of administrative buildings, barracks, official buildings, 31 hydroelectric or thermal power stations, around a hundred important industries in the sectors of construction, metallurgy, cement works etc., thousands of schools, training institutes, high schools, universities with 800,000 children enrolled in 17,000 classes (i.e. as many teachers , two-thirds of which are French), a 2,000-bed university hospital in Algiers, three large capital hospitals in Algiers, Oran and Constantine, 14 specialized hospitals and 112 multi-purpose hospitals, i.e. the exceptional figure of one bed for 300 inhabitants. Not to mention a flourishing agriculture left fallow after independence, so much so that today Algeria has to import tomato paste, chickpeas and semolina for couscous...

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah no shit idiot that intermediate period had major international industrialization, didnt have anything to do with something inherent to french algeria, same shit wouldve happened if it was a vietnamese protectorate or whatever the frick

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        No, moron.
        Go read about the absolute state of Saudi Arabia in 1900 if you want an idea of how Algeria would have looked without colonialism

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Algeria in 1900 was much more civilized than Algeria in 1830.
      Tocqueville himself admits that Abdel Kader is a world historical figure that would modernize Algeria on the level of France, England, and Germany. He even compares him to Oliver Cromwell. And then goes on to say that allowing Algeria to modernize would be an existential threat to France and that they need to do everything they can to keep Algeria divided and economically backwards.
      >France had abolished pedophilia
      Oh, you're joking. Good one.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Tocqueville himself admits that Abdel Kader is a world historical figure that would modernize Algeria on the level of France, England, and Germany.

        Yeah bro
        That random jihadi goatfricket was totally gonna turn the medieval shithole that was 1830s Algeria into something on par with Western Europe

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Abd-el-Kader, who is obviously a spirit of the rarest and most dangerous kind, a mixture of sincere and feigned enthusiasm, a kind of Muslim Cromwell; Abd-el-Kader, I say, has understood this marvelously. In all his external acts, the prince shows himself much less than a saint: he hides constantly behind the interest of the religion for which, he says, he acts; it is as interpreter of the Quran and with the Quran in his hand that he enjoins and condemns, it is reform that he preaches as much as obedience; his humility grows with his power.
          Cope more /misc/tard. Even France ended up awarding him a medal of honour.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >The government of Abd-el-Kader is already more centralised, more agile and stronger than that of the Turks ever was. It brings together with less effort a greater number of men and more money. This is partly due to what I have said precisely in showing the necessary consequences of European contact with other peoples. Abd-el-Kader retained from the Arab all that was necessary to exalt his compatriots, he took from us all that was necessary to subdue them.
            >The greatest difficulty encountered by a prince who wishes to govern a confederation of Arab tribes is this: At every moment he is exposed to the risk of finding before him an organised force which resists him, while he is never sure of finding at his disposal the means to enforce his power. The first condition of power and even of existence for such a prince is therefore to possess an army which belongs to him, independently of that which the tribes may circumstantially provide him with, an army which, though perhaps incapable of defeating a general revolt, is at least capable of putting down the partial resistances which are encountered every day.
            >All this is very new among the Arabs. The ambition shown by Abd-el-Kader has been shown with more or less success by many others. But he is the first who has taken from his contact with Europe the ideas which will make his enterprise succeed in a lasting way. We must not, therefore, rely on the past and believe that this power, after having shone for a while, will fade away like so many others. On the contrary, it is to be feared that Abd-el-Kader is in the process of founding in Arab lands, and around us, a power which is more centralised, more agile, more powerful, more experienced and more regular than all those which have succeeded one another for centuries in this part of the world. We must therefore try not to let him complete this formidable task.
            cont.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >With his army he raised regular taxes which in turn enabled him to maintain and keep standing his army. With the help of this same permanent force, he forms stores, prepares resources, envisions strategies, and can bring them quietly about. Thanks to it, he is always ready to prevent or crush in detail all resistance, while the malcontents need to gather all together and agree in advance to attack him successfully. Thus he leads the majority by enthusiasm and the minority by fear. Such is the secret of his power, it is not difficult to understand; for what Abd-el-Kader is attempting is not new in the world. A social work very similar to that which took place in Europe at the end of the Middle Ages is being done at the moment in these half-wild lands of Africa. Abd-el-Kader, who probably never heard of what was happening in France in the fifteenth century, is acting towards the tribes in precisely the same way as our kings and in particular Charles VII acted against feudalism. He created companies of ordinance. And with the help of this independent force, he shot down in whole the small powers that together could easily rule over him. The kings of France took advantage of each small rebellion to strip the great vassals and to bring new territories under their direct administration. Abd-el-Kader seized the same opportunities to destroy successively in each tribe the most important men who were in his way. It is the same procedure applied in a slightly different way. Without knowing the history of these princes, but obeying an instinct similar to that which made them act, he disperses or destroys every day the old and powerful families, and makes new ones arise which owe their authority to him and do not possess an authority which is old and well established enough to be able to alarm his own. He is not only making war on the French, but on the hereditary aristocracy of his country.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You mix on purpose France and the judeo-masonic Republic which is a criminal regime (the original USSR).

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Cope and seethe

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          kek this. It would have been morocco tier at best

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >France had abolished pedophilia and slavery
      Big mistake in my book. Should've kept child sex slaves

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >The French abolished
      Tell that to Foucault

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >On the other hand, I have often heard in France men whom I respect, but whom I do not agree with, say that it wrong to burn the harvests, to empty the silos and finally to imprison unarmed men, women and children. These are, in my opinion, unfortunate necessities, but ones to which any people who want to make war on the Arabs will be obliged to submit. And, if I must say what I think, these acts do not revolt me more or even as much as several others which the law of war obviously authorizes and which take place in all the wars of Europe. Why is it more odious to burn harvests and take women and children prisoner than to bombard the harmless population of a besieged city or to seize merchant ships belonging to the subjects of an enemy power at sea? The one is, in my opinion, much crueler and less justifiable than the other.
    >If in Europe one does not burn the harvests, it is because in general one makes war on governments and not on peoples; if one only takes prisoners of war, it is because the armies hold firm and the civilian populations do not shy away from conquest. In a word, everywhere one finds the means to seize political power without attacking the governed or even by gathering against them the resources necessary for war.
    What did he mean by this?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Either he was right about everything or he's the most coherent writer I've ever seen.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Why did France merge different separate kingdoms into Algiers (Algeria)
    Like Kingdom of Ait Abbas and Sultanate of touggourt and ghardaia

    Wouldn't it have been best to keep them separate

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      French are obsessed with centralization. To the extent that the French language is essentially a dialect of Paris, they genocides entire French towns to accomplish this. Given a long enough time frame they would have gladly merged with Algeria into a mulatto trans-African empire, so long as the Dey was able to rule from Paris with his court of Monsieur Beyliks. They did have enough for sight to keep Algerians divided for the first half century or so while they consolidated their power, but asking France not to consolidate and standardize is like asking a lepord to change its stripes.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I feel bad for the people of those kingdoms, now they are left with a new state that doesn't represent them
        The berber language and culture was banned entirely after (algeria) independence

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      current Algeia is a meme state but I am curious what would real Algeria look like on a map if the French kept the real borders intact

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Algeria started trending towards consolidation and modernization the moment the Ottomans were removed. If France hadn't done it, they likely would have done it themselves much faster.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >arabs
          >consolidation
          nice Joke

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >t I am curious what would real Algeria look like on a map
        What he said

        No it didn't lmao those departments are just for administration purposes. The kingdoms were absorbed entirely into Algiers (Algeria)
        If it kept them separate they wouldn't be part of Algeria today and they would've had their own department or a protectorate status of sorts
        [...]
        >what would real Algeria look like on a map
        similar to the ottoman regency
        Only the capital Algiers and the north western half of Algeria

        The eastern half would be two berber states and in the south 3 or 2 possible states. Touareg and touggourt. The m'zab would probably join either one or they would all form a confederation of sorts

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >The city also had its own sultanate dynasty, the “sultanate of Tuggurt”, which was founded in 1414. Over the years the dynasty saw the rise of fourteen sultans until it was eventually abolished by the French colonial authorities in 1854.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Why did France merge different separate kingdoms into Algiers (Algeria)
      >Wouldn't it have been best to keep them separate
      France... did keep them separate. There were three departements: Alger, Oran, and Constantin; plus the great Sahara hinterland. All were mostly run from Paris.
      You could argue that France's departmental borders were bullshit over there but then, its departments' borders back home in France were pretty gay as well.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >France... did keep them separate
        So where are these kingdoms today? What happened to the royals

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          same thing as happened to John the Magnificent's archduchy spanning from Berry to Auvergne.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        No it didn't lmao those departments are just for administration purposes. The kingdoms were absorbed entirely into Algiers (Algeria)
        If it kept them separate they wouldn't be part of Algeria today and they would've had their own department or a protectorate status of sorts

        current Algeia is a meme state but I am curious what would real Algeria look like on a map if the French kept the real borders intact

        >what would real Algeria look like on a map
        similar to the ottoman regency
        Only the capital Algiers and the north western half of Algeria

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Because the zirid dynasty wich was the ancestor of the algerian stare controlled all of those

      current Algeia is a meme state but I am curious what would real Algeria look like on a map if the French kept the real borders intact

      Current algeria is historic algeria + all of the territory they added after colonisation in the south

      No it didn't lmao those departments are just for administration purposes. The kingdoms were absorbed entirely into Algiers (Algeria)
      If it kept them separate they wouldn't be part of Algeria today and they would've had their own department or a protectorate status of sorts
      [...]
      >what would real Algeria look like on a map
      similar to the ottoman regency
      Only the capital Algiers and the north western half of Algeria

      No more like anything from coast to ouragla

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >wich was the ancestor of the algerian stare
        No it isn't. Algeria is officially an arab state and claims the emirate of abdelkader as the foundation of Algeria
        It banned berber language and culture for decades.
        The zirid dynasty is related to the Kingdom of Ait Abbas (both are the same sanhaja berber tribe) so It is that kingdom of Ait Abbas that controlled modern day Algeria not the reverse

        >Current algeria is historic algeria
        Nta but No it isn't

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Algeria (Dzayr) is literally zirid/ziri in berber/arabic you idiot, ziri was a berber warlord who founded algiers, the ziri state and gave his name to algiers/algeria
          The flag is an inspiration from multiple medieval berber dynasty (zyanid, Hafsid, zirid, hammadid)

          You an idiot

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah that name was given by the zirids and the kingdom Of Ait Abbas is the successor state to it because they're the same berber tribe. Not current ALGERIA which is solely an arab state

            >The flag is an inspiration from multiple medieval berber dynasty (zyanid, Hafsid, zirid, hammadid)
            No it isn't. It was created by a French woman named "Émilie Busquant" who was the wife of an algerian national. And Algeria officially does not claim any of those dynasties
            >You an idiot
            yes (You)'re an idiot. The Algerian state literally claim Abdelkader as the founder of Algeria and banned berber culture and language for decades and killed tens of thousands of berbers

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Spring_(Algeria)

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >It was created by a French woman named "Émilie Busquant

            >She is perhaps best known as the creator of the Algerian flag. While there is some dispute over who exactly designed green and white with red star and crescent symbol,[7] Émilie is generally credited as having sewed the first version of the flag.[2]

            HOLY KEK nafris are pathetically useless

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You're correct.
            >t.algerian nafri

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >It was created by a French woman named "Émilie Busquant

            >She is perhaps best known as the creator of the Algerian flag. While there is some dispute over who exactly designed green and white with red star and crescent symbol,[7] Émilie is generally credited as having sewed the first version of the flag.[2]

            HOLY KEK nafris are pathetically useless

            You're correct.
            >t.algerian nafri

            No its not you idiot
            This is femininist frog revisionist history
            The crescent and star come from the hafsids/zyanids, the white and red from ifrenids and the Green from zirids and fatimids

            >killed then of thousands of berbers
            >post terrorist insurrection

            You an idiot or a makist crybaby gay
            Stop seething, algeria is a berber state wheter its the name, flag, people/genetics or culture/language that is very mixed with berber

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >>post terrorist insurrection
            >literally just people wanting to speak their native language (berber) without going to jail
            you're a delusional nafri

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >algeria is a berber state wheter its the name, flag, people/genetics or culture/language that is very mixed with berber
            luckily it is not up to you to decide. You're a young nation that never existed before the French. That is the truth no amount of coping will change it
            >post terrorist insurrection
            so you're an illiterate too
            expected nothing less from a nafri

            He's a French nafri. I spoken with him a few times on other boards, he's totally clueless about the country he's chauvinistic about and projects his french maghrebien identity onto nafrica.
            oh and he's actually an arab yet pretends to be berber KEK

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            [...]
            He's a French nafri. I spoken with him a few times on other boards, he's totally clueless about the country he's chauvinistic about and projects his french maghrebien identity onto nafrica.
            oh and he's actually an arab yet pretends to be berber KEK

            here's another incident for the French nafri homosexual to dismiss again

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber_Spring

            Yet he will still claim algeria is a berber state and not an arab one kek

            >delusional makist troony cuck
            STFU historylet
            You probably dont even call yourself by your endonym

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            S E E T H I N G
            >historylet
            kek keep projecting your insecurities maghrebin trash
            you've had no rebuttal and proved your lack of knowledge once again just like the last time we talked. Do yourself a favour and open a book or just stop talking about topics that you're ignorant at

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >algeria is a berber state wheter its the name, flag, people/genetics or culture/language that is very mixed with berber
            luckily it is not up to you to decide. You're a young nation that never existed before the French. That is the truth no amount of coping will change it
            >post terrorist insurrection
            so you're an illiterate too
            expected nothing less from a nafri

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Are there any good sources on ottoman algeria?
    Why was it such a backward shithole? Even the income from piracy was mostly given to Constantinople

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      There are translations of Tocqueville's writings online
      https://tikhanovlibrary.substack.com/p/alexis-de-tocquevilles-first-letter
      The piracy thing was mostly a myth. It hadn't been widespread for a century before France invaded, and that was mostly caused by Charles X trying to extend his power by starting a war and to get out of paying french debts.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >The piracy thing was mostly a myth. It hadn't been widespread for a century before France invaded

        You nafris revisionists are hilarous.
        Barbary piracy was a serious issue in the 18th and early 19th century and it's a well recorded fact even in English speaking documents (so there goes your bullshit about it having been made up by France as an excuse to invade)

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          you're both right
          I only take issue when chuds claim it was a European problem even though the English were more than happy to pay tributes and watch other rival euros lose their ships

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        thanks
        But I want to know before the french arrived
        Why were the natives barred from working in administration or becoming Dey's or the famines and stagnant population growth...etc

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The French burned most of the libraries when they arrived, so there's truthfully not a lot to go on. Natives being barred from administration or becoming Deys was, I believe, standard practice for the Ottomans (and most empires) at the time. Constantinople would assign administrators from its own courts, and send them abroad to govern.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        https://archive.org/details/travels-in-algeria_202403
        Full book

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It might be true of some of the Muslims in Algeria, but keep in mind their economy was based on piracy before first the Americans and then the French ended that.
    If piracy is what it takes to make Muslim society happy, ordered, scholarly, and civilised then Muslim society deserves extinction. Algeria needs to return to Augustine and Gelasius.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Algeria needs to return to Augustine and Gelasius
      They didn't invent shit so Algeria would've stayed the same

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The same could be applied to the British. Don't be so naive.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Pre-colonial Algeria is kino

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    french colonization was bad because it was ultimately a israeli project, just look at the Crémieux Decree, its not a concidence. the french like the israelites also played a part in the spread of pan-arabist filth.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Here's an interesting text about colonization of Algeria in the second half of the 19th century

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Does anyone have any good book recommendations for a history of the French conquest of Algeria and the colonial policies / integration of Algeria into metropolitan France?

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    here's another incident for the French nafri homosexual to dismiss again

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber_Spring

    Yet he will still claim algeria is a berber state and not an arab one kek

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >WAH WAH WAH NOT MY SLAVE TRADERS

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