This post is based but keeps causing so much seethe. What is so hard to understand about the idea that art must say something meaningful about the world? That's why genre trash and video games hardly (if at all) count as art. Jesus in a piss bottle is more profound than those tbh.
>Remember when you're arguing with someone on here
The message of Mass Effect is "Choices have consequences, if you are mean to people they are mean to you, if you help people they might help you too".
However babal, this is *infinitely* superior to the milionths iteration of "what is art" or "white supremacist patriarchial beauty standards should be subverted".
2 years ago
Anonymous
People who aren't rich need to sell their labor to survive. Artists are people. Most people aren't rich. Conclude.
there are 0 artistically serious AAA video games. the closest it gets is mgs2 (which came out before AAA games were really a thing) or fromsoft's earlier games (which weren't really AAA yet despite having AAA levels of marketing). also if http://www.deltaheadtranslation.com/MGS4/0pf.htm is accurate then kojima's games more generally are
Kojima's games are very serious artistically, MGS4 5 and Death Stranding definitely included. Great taste on early fromsoft as well, Demon's Souls had genuinely poetic game design. Japanese games are in kind of a different category though.
modern art has the same cancer AAA games have, it doesn't matter that one has prestige, its still equally soulless.
>Remember when you're arguing with someone on here
The message of Mass Effect is "Choices have consequences, if you are mean to people they are mean to you, if you help people they might help you too".
However babal, this is *infinitely* superior to the milionths iteration of "what is art" or "white supremacist patriarchial beauty standards should be subverted".
People who aren't rich need to sell their labor to survive. Artists are people. Most people aren't rich. Conclude.
Agreed.
Kojima's games are very serious artistically, MGS4 5 and Death Stranding definitely included. Great taste on early fromsoft as well, Demon's Souls had genuinely poetic game design. Japanese games are in kind of a different category though.
It’s going to take awhile before people realize gaming is not only a serious art, but probably the greatest expression we have of the human spirit. Music is just sound, novels are just words. Movies are closer because you can see what’s happening, but it’s only games that ALLOW you to become the MC. Every obstacle overcome was overcome by YOU, every defeat is YOUR defeat, and the final triumph was won by your own intelligence, tenacity, and will.
Of course the academics and critics, all boomers by the way, are going to see gaming as a children’s thing, but I think once zoomers, the first generation to really grow up with games as art, reach that age we’ll see gaming as an art on par with literature, cinema, music, etc. Until then, these people will have to cope with gaming being the ONLY art to reach young people now.
>novels are just words >Movies are closer because you can see what’s happening, but it’s only games that ALLOW you to become the MC
Do you have absolutely zero imagination to visualise and suspend belief to do all that with a novel? That’s a internal active experience where as movies and games are external passive experiences for consoomers. Video games will never reach the heights of IQfy I blow my nose at you!
>the first generation to really grow up with games as art
Yes, those pieces of art like fortnite, angry birds, among us, p2w games, etc. You zoomers are in the same level of arrogance as millennials but somehow are more stupid.
For games to become art they would have through a long refinement process like crafts and pottery did in Asia. The problem is that video games are a product made to be sold in mass and their main focus is gameplay. The moment a game abandons that to favor, say, plot, you have a words words words simulator like it happened with Planescape Torment or Disco Elysium. The plot is engaging (or not, that's up to you) but the gameplay is just watching your party whack enemies and clicking around the map. At that point you may as well read a book or novel instead.
The only games that managed to come close to be called art were Ocarina of Time and Goldeneye 007, and that was because they were a refinement of previous action/adventures/shooting games. After that companies focused mostly on plot, graphics, content or gameplay, but not all at the same time because the companies have to make money above anything.
>What is so hard to understand about the idea that art must say something meaningful about the world? That's why genre trash and video games hardly (if at all) count as art.
bait
I think a lot of artists feel the pressure because 1) many jobs are insufferable for an artistic person and 2) inhibit artistic creation. So the obvious thing to do is try to make a living off art.
>All art must be entertaining
pre-industrial philosophy of art >and sell well.
i'm not aware of anyone who says this, except maybe teenager ancaps on the internet
The materialistic one. The evil one.
All correct.
the people trying to make money obviously
>Where does this mindset come from?
The average person.
People who don't know what kitsch is. morons, more or less.
whats an example of kitsch that you're talking about?
This post is based but keeps causing so much seethe. What is so hard to understand about the idea that art must say something meaningful about the world? That's why genre trash and video games hardly (if at all) count as art. Jesus in a piss bottle is more profound than those tbh.
>That's why genre trash and video games hardly
The average AAA game is a far more profound piece of art then 99% of what todays art industry produces.
Remember when you're arguing with someone on here, these are the kind of people you're arguing with.
modern art has the same cancer AAA games have, it doesn't matter that one has prestige, its still equally soulless.
>Remember when you're arguing with someone on here
The message of Mass Effect is "Choices have consequences, if you are mean to people they are mean to you, if you help people they might help you too".
However babal, this is *infinitely* superior to the milionths iteration of "what is art" or "white supremacist patriarchial beauty standards should be subverted".
People who aren't rich need to sell their labor to survive. Artists are people. Most people aren't rich. Conclude.
Agreed.
>questioning art is bad
there are 0 artistically serious AAA video games. the closest it gets is mgs2 (which came out before AAA games were really a thing) or fromsoft's earlier games (which weren't really AAA yet despite having AAA levels of marketing). also if http://www.deltaheadtranslation.com/MGS4/0pf.htm is accurate then kojima's games more generally are
Kojima's games are very serious artistically, MGS4 5 and Death Stranding definitely included. Great taste on early fromsoft as well, Demon's Souls had genuinely poetic game design. Japanese games are in kind of a different category though.
Large parts of MGS2 were a satire on AAA games, and the people who play them.
Guess what, everybody hated on MGS2 at the time. Only recently people became fond of it
>captcha: DY40GG
you must be+18 to post here
It’s going to take awhile before people realize gaming is not only a serious art, but probably the greatest expression we have of the human spirit. Music is just sound, novels are just words. Movies are closer because you can see what’s happening, but it’s only games that ALLOW you to become the MC. Every obstacle overcome was overcome by YOU, every defeat is YOUR defeat, and the final triumph was won by your own intelligence, tenacity, and will.
Of course the academics and critics, all boomers by the way, are going to see gaming as a children’s thing, but I think once zoomers, the first generation to really grow up with games as art, reach that age we’ll see gaming as an art on par with literature, cinema, music, etc. Until then, these people will have to cope with gaming being the ONLY art to reach young people now.
GAMERS RISE UP!
>novels are just words
>Movies are closer because you can see what’s happening, but it’s only games that ALLOW you to become the MC
Do you have absolutely zero imagination to visualise and suspend belief to do all that with a novel? That’s a internal active experience where as movies and games are external passive experiences for consoomers. Video games will never reach the heights of IQfy I blow my nose at you!
>the first generation to really grow up with games as art
Yes, those pieces of art like fortnite, angry birds, among us, p2w games, etc. You zoomers are in the same level of arrogance as millennials but somehow are more stupid.
For games to become art they would have through a long refinement process like crafts and pottery did in Asia. The problem is that video games are a product made to be sold in mass and their main focus is gameplay. The moment a game abandons that to favor, say, plot, you have a words words words simulator like it happened with Planescape Torment or Disco Elysium. The plot is engaging (or not, that's up to you) but the gameplay is just watching your party whack enemies and clicking around the map. At that point you may as well read a book or novel instead.
The only games that managed to come close to be called art were Ocarina of Time and Goldeneye 007, and that was because they were a refinement of previous action/adventures/shooting games. After that companies focused mostly on plot, graphics, content or gameplay, but not all at the same time because the companies have to make money above anything.
>What is so hard to understand about the idea that art must say something meaningful about the world? That's why genre trash and video games hardly (if at all) count as art.
bait
hes mostly right
Something like Quake has more artistic qualities than most of the modern literature that gets praised here.
Capitalism.
Reality? All books in the canon are entertaining in some way, they would be forgotten otherwise.
A world where the artist needs to earn money to produce art.
I actually get excited to read a books that's not rated well on goodreads >:)
I think a lot of artists feel the pressure because 1) many jobs are insufferable for an artistic person and 2) inhibit artistic creation. So the obvious thing to do is try to make a living off art.
>strawman no one said
>where do these strawmen come from
idk op tell us, also this thread is a rerun, you suck, assuming you aren't a python script.
Athenian play festivals
No, those are state founded political propaganda.
Somewhere in the United States.
It's an import of the console wars from IQfy.
Are you 15 and don't know market forces
IQfy is faster than here. How is their reaction, and I'm assuming from all boards because I assume this was posted on several, to OP?
I think it's kinda hilarious that the IQfy thread has 10 times as many replies as this one.
>All art must be entertaining
pre-industrial philosophy of art
>and sell well.
i'm not aware of anyone who says this, except maybe teenager ancaps on the internet
American crapitalism
Stop posting low quality threads
Monetary value is no value at all. Art should only exist to educate and enlighten man.
art is not a tool nor therapy
art shouldn't do anything
stop going to art to have your life and beliefs affirmed