damn right and this moron is gonna make your anus sore. bend over, since you're predetermined to do it any ways, you're gonna do it because free will is a lie according to and my dick is going in your butthole
I could tell you, but I actually can't because it was determined that I wouldn't tell you by a long causal chain that began with the birth of the universe. sorry.
No, you must have me confused with someone else. If determinism is true, then everyone would have no reason to live because if everything is pre-planned, thinking for yourself is just a meme because who cares about developing novel concepts. Its all predetermined, no reason to ever use your brain for anything, just let nature rule over you instead of actually thinking. Just die.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>then everyone would have no reason to live
This seems like a utilitarian value judgment of the sort that can't square the idea that nihilists or antinatalists don't immediately commit suicide
Why didn't the Calvinists all commit suicide since they were predestined to enter heaven?
2 years ago
Anonymous
You tell me. People should try to be logically consistent with their beliefs. If your beliefs tell you to have a nice day, do it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I asked first. You're also presuming that the majority of people are ever logically consistent in their beliefs.
In any event, the logic doesn't follow that the apparent meaningless of existence means that one should take action towards an equally meaningless death. There are multiple points in the Bible that affirm the degeneracy and sinfulness of life itself, how not being born is preferable to being alive in sin, yet any Christian worth their salt would neither advocate for or perform suicide.
2 years ago
Anonymous
"apparent meaninglessness of existence"
kys then
2 years ago
Anonymous
Is your anger at ideas like determinism and nihilism due to your apparent lack of personal meaning and need for external factors to prevent yourself from contemplating suicide? It seems more like you imagine self termination as the logical end of having any belief system that isn't your own; are you so insecure in yourself that you need life affirmed for you?
2 years ago
Anonymous
No I have plenty of meaning. You're projecting hard
>i.e. an incomplete field of science
Schrodinger's kot was him pointing out that his formulae were incomplete, because the cat being alive and dead is extremely absurd
Determinists be like >Nah bro hidden variable theories of quantum mechanics are totally right despite violating special relativity
Given that we can't reproduce the exact state of the universe at the moment that something happens in order to exactly reproduce a result how can we even say one way or another? How are we capable of knowing whether a coin flip that happens at one precise moment wouldn't return the exact same result given ALL variables being the exact same, including the same apparent time and thus arrangement of atoms in the universe? Are we able to be certain that, if the same time were observable, that any quantum effects wouldn't occur in the same way instead of happening randomly as we percieve them to be? Genuine questions, not trying to be facetious.
I honestly can't explain the full details of the reasoning to you. I'll give you the general sketch though. You want there to be a hidden variable theory. A hidden variable theory would be the idea that, while the mathematics of quantum mechanics are accurate as far as we can tell, there's something about our ignorance of what's really going on at a fundamental level that makes quantum mechanics the most accurate only because of our ignorance. You could do an analogy with kinetic theory for gases. There's a result in physics called Bell's theorem. It essentially says that hidden variable theories can't be local in order for them to make the math work. But that means all hidden variable theories that explain quantum mechanics violate the assumption that light is the universal speed limit. If you want your interpretation of quantum mechanics to be consistent with special relativity, therefore, you have to accept that there's a randomness to the universe. You could also say that there is no universal speed limit, at least for something like a pilot wave, and you could provide alternative models for why special relativity appears to be true. But physics prefer to side with special relativity.
Ethica, it ontologically proved determinism rather than scientifically (science can never prove determinism because consciousness is so complex that it will never be fully understood)
For all practical purposes, there is no discernible difference.
Any perceived difference between the two views comes from a faulty understanding of the concepts.
Determinism is only valid within a divine framework of infinite power and perfect knowledge given that the requirements of energy and information acquisition to produce a valid prognostication from within the system itself alter it enough to invalidate the prediction from both traditional and quantum mechanics perspectives.
It seems logical that the universe was causally determined up until the appearance of humans who represent a wild card due to our autonomy and individuality. Art cannot be causally determined because it arises out of the human will. The will doesn't appear in nature.
Free will advocates be like
*deconstructs philosophy and all reductionist materialism*
>deconstructs reductionism
Lolwut
none, because determinism is dogshit much like the turd that your mother shat out of her vegana the day you were born
Spoken like a true Free Will-tard
damn right and this moron is gonna make your anus sore. bend over, since you're predetermined to do it any ways, you're gonna do it because free will is a lie according to and my dick is going in your butthole
Keep your sodomite fantasies to yourself.
I ain't gay I'm just asserting dominance, because its predetermined
I could tell you, but I actually can't because it was determined that I wouldn't tell you by a long causal chain that began with the birth of the universe. sorry.
Ironically this still supports determinism, it's just mid wits cannot comprehend why
No it doesn't
Mid wit detected
No, you must have me confused with someone else. If determinism is true, then everyone would have no reason to live because if everything is pre-planned, thinking for yourself is just a meme because who cares about developing novel concepts. Its all predetermined, no reason to ever use your brain for anything, just let nature rule over you instead of actually thinking. Just die.
>then everyone would have no reason to live
This seems like a utilitarian value judgment of the sort that can't square the idea that nihilists or antinatalists don't immediately commit suicide
Why didn't the Calvinists all commit suicide since they were predestined to enter heaven?
You tell me. People should try to be logically consistent with their beliefs. If your beliefs tell you to have a nice day, do it.
I asked first. You're also presuming that the majority of people are ever logically consistent in their beliefs.
In any event, the logic doesn't follow that the apparent meaningless of existence means that one should take action towards an equally meaningless death. There are multiple points in the Bible that affirm the degeneracy and sinfulness of life itself, how not being born is preferable to being alive in sin, yet any Christian worth their salt would neither advocate for or perform suicide.
"apparent meaninglessness of existence"
kys then
Is your anger at ideas like determinism and nihilism due to your apparent lack of personal meaning and need for external factors to prevent yourself from contemplating suicide? It seems more like you imagine self termination as the logical end of having any belief system that isn't your own; are you so insecure in yourself that you need life affirmed for you?
No I have plenty of meaning. You're projecting hard
Pseud detected.
Completely misconstrued concept of determinism
dumb frick free will occurs in between incarnations
You understand determinism and free will co-exist right?
Yes, but you cannot have free will without a determined set of concepts
I love threads like this, they open up a can of worms (Determinist btw)
Based. This shit is the best they can come up with?
more like free WON'T lol
>Determinism?
causation isnt real dumbass
Even the sciencetards agree now that the universe is non-determinstic i.e. quantum physics.
>i.e. an incomplete field of science
Schrodinger's kot was him pointing out that his formulae were incomplete, because the cat being alive and dead is extremely absurd
Given that we can't reproduce the exact state of the universe at the moment that something happens in order to exactly reproduce a result how can we even say one way or another? How are we capable of knowing whether a coin flip that happens at one precise moment wouldn't return the exact same result given ALL variables being the exact same, including the same apparent time and thus arrangement of atoms in the universe? Are we able to be certain that, if the same time were observable, that any quantum effects wouldn't occur in the same way instead of happening randomly as we percieve them to be? Genuine questions, not trying to be facetious.
I honestly can't explain the full details of the reasoning to you. I'll give you the general sketch though. You want there to be a hidden variable theory. A hidden variable theory would be the idea that, while the mathematics of quantum mechanics are accurate as far as we can tell, there's something about our ignorance of what's really going on at a fundamental level that makes quantum mechanics the most accurate only because of our ignorance. You could do an analogy with kinetic theory for gases. There's a result in physics called Bell's theorem. It essentially says that hidden variable theories can't be local in order for them to make the math work. But that means all hidden variable theories that explain quantum mechanics violate the assumption that light is the universal speed limit. If you want your interpretation of quantum mechanics to be consistent with special relativity, therefore, you have to accept that there's a randomness to the universe. You could also say that there is no universal speed limit, at least for something like a pilot wave, and you could provide alternative models for why special relativity appears to be true. But physics prefer to side with special relativity.
But physicists prefer to side*
Ethica, it ontologically proved determinism rather than scientifically (science can never prove determinism because consciousness is so complex that it will never be fully understood)
No it didn't. Go suck a dick, friendo
Determinists be like
>Nah bro hidden variable theories of quantum mechanics are totally right despite violating special relativity
For all practical purposes, there is no discernible difference.
Any perceived difference between the two views comes from a faulty understanding of the concepts.
Determinism is only valid within a divine framework of infinite power and perfect knowledge given that the requirements of energy and information acquisition to produce a valid prognostication from within the system itself alter it enough to invalidate the prediction from both traditional and quantum mechanics perspectives.
Checkmate atheists
That's gotta be the most incoherent shit posted here outside a guenon thread.
no it just means there needs to be a god for it to be true otherwise it cant work with the academic research at hand
No need for any god.
You dropped these pal.
It seems logical that the universe was causally determined up until the appearance of humans who represent a wild card due to our autonomy and individuality. Art cannot be causally determined because it arises out of the human will. The will doesn't appear in nature.
>The will doesn't appear in nature
>The will doesn't appear in nature.
Imagine being this wrong. Humans are just the most refined kind of will
Behave by Robert Sapolsky
The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature by Matt Ridley
Now get ye gone from this queer ass thread where nobody is talking about books