[...]
Marcus Fabius Quintilian, Institutes of Oratory.
Constantine VII, Imperial Administration.
remainder of semester should be spent studying composition in Marcus Valerius Martialis, Epigrams.
supplementum ad nauseum:
Michel Montaigne, Joseph Addison, Douglas William Jerrold
oh i see, you want to learn rhetoric but you want to remain as a snorting dooling pleb minus 99% of your human logic and human speech, gotcha yeah hm, not sure what to reccoooomend in that case? Maybe Katie Perry.
uh huh ... and ... why is that?
if you want to learn how to think and reason properly you can't possibly think you can, like, become a professional sportsman and stay as a fat boy laying on the couch. Your entire life has to change. If you think "thinking logically" is 'autism' then you've got no fricking chance.
read again; shut your mouth, do as i say if you want to go somewhere with this topic: [...]
... that's kind of scary how hard some of you aristotle coons believe 'rhetoric' is out to get you by a big conspiracy.
8 months ago
Anonymous
I thought it was Playdough that hated rhetoric?
8 months ago
Anonymous
doesnt really matter what plato hated, people point to aristotle or plato like they point to the bible; there's really nothing there to be learned and they don't know anything about it themselves...
..whilst 'socratic philosophy' is very much different to rhetoric in its origin and timeline. there's some overlap but... rhetoric develops into formal proof-based science, whereas philosophy develops into formal fantasy-based religion. that's probably the easiest way to describe it.
8 months ago
Anonymous
I guess but rhetoric without grounding in actual meaning is just empty platitudes
8 months ago
Anonymous
this is true, that's why rhetoric develops and relies on a proof-basis and the speaker being able to articulate a complex case; which is why I say Quintilian is the first place to go.
Chrysippus of Soli developed the 'scientific method' of proofs which became stoicism, blurring with 'philosophy', really that's almost all you need to realize that in order to convince other people you have actually be right about what your saying in order to be able to demonstrate the truth of it. Stoicism is still useful, the authors of it like Rufus, in that they're against peer pressure and things like that which is what 'bad rhetoric' as opposed to 'good rhetoric' relies on. But bad rhetoric is inactionable since a speaker appealing to the mob can only copy what the mob wants to do and cannot convince them to do anything requiring effort, whereas logical speech may not convince 100 useless people but it will convince 10 useful people who are far more valuable than the 100 useless people.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Plato's entire corpus is a work of deathless rhetoric, they are together a still breathing orator.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>muh platootoods
8 months ago
Anonymous
This guy is a Heraclitus fan for sure
8 months ago
Anonymous
Wittgenstein was the takeaway i got, but ok
8 months ago
Anonymous
he hated sophists. who tend to use rhetoric.
that is to say, he hated rhetoric that is used to polish up a bad argument. Not rhetoric itself.
OP is just a moron, tht's all. I think he's looking for things like ... "power of subtle suggestion and peer pressure" to get people to maybe do what he wants in a 50 yr time span; like women think, whereas I made the mistake of thinking he was asking for how to demonstrate factual cases and refute people with ideas and have people do what he wants in a 3 minute timespan instead.
uh let's try again,
https://i.imgur.com/UbOZ3ur.jpg
anyone into rhetorical theory? What are the best books on rhetoric?
try NLP i guess - anything with a foreword by katy perry, and maybe study how hillary clinton speaks.
anyone into rhetorical theory? What are the best books on rhetoric?
Marcus Fabius Quintilian, Institutes of Oratory.
Constantine VII, Imperial Administration.
remainder of semester should be spent studying composition in Marcus Valerius Martialis, Epigrams.
supplementum ad nauseum:
Michel Montaigne, Joseph Addison, Douglas William Jerrold
oh i see, you want to learn rhetoric but you want to remain as a snorting dooling pleb minus 99% of your human logic and human speech, gotcha yeah hm, not sure what to reccoooomend in that case? Maybe Katie Perry.
8 months ago
Anonymous
AUTISM ALERT
BEEP BEEP BEEP
8 months ago
Anonymous
uh huh ... and ... why is that?
if you want to learn how to think and reason properly you can't possibly think you can, like, become a professional sportsman and stay as a fat boy laying on the couch. Your entire life has to change. If you think "thinking logically" is 'autism' then you've got no fricking chance.
read again; shut your mouth, do as i say if you want to go somewhere with this topic:
OP didn't as for queer theory, plato nerd
[...]
Marcus Fabius Quintilian, Institutes of Oratory.
Constantine VII, Imperial Administration.
remainder of semester should be spent studying composition in Marcus Valerius Martialis, Epigrams.
supplementum ad nauseum:
Michel Montaigne, Joseph Addison, Douglas William Jerrold
>21 replies >6 posters
Well, yea. I guess one schizo counts as many. I have aristotles rethoric but i basically never read it since i think it's redundant now (not aristotle, but rethoric in general would be a redundant read)
And don't correct my english as i have no respect for this ugly ass language. Rhetoric, that just looks moronic. Ugly language for ugly inbred morons
8 months ago
Anonymous
lawl
8 months ago
Anonymous
then go away and don't speak english, believe me we're indundated with third worlders from greece telling us popular information from30 yrs ago about plato.
My thread has been ruined by schizo posters.
>My thread
well frogurt,
https://i.imgur.com/UbOZ3ur.jpg
anyone into rhetorical theory? What are the best books on rhetoric?
what the frick do you mean by 'rhetoric'? you've had the best answers and the worst answers, if these didn't illuminate you HMM perhaps you've confused rhetoric with being something else entirely, like cheese?
>muh aristotle muh aristotle is the best >yeh havent read aristotle actually >(misspells subject word repeatedly)
automatic handguns were invented to crack the frontal cortex of people like you, dysgen.
Interested in this topic as well. I read Latour's "Science in Action" and it's interesting how he ties rhetoric into the social construction of science. He cited specifically "The New Rhetoric", by Perelman and Brechts-Tyteca.
I guess a good primer would be "Classical Rhetoric for the modern student", even if it's dry and academic. Obviously Aristotle and Cicero's works are very important from an historical perspective, but I guess it depends on your goals.
The best resource I found is actually the reading list from (yes, I know) r/rhetoric. There is also a chart on the IQfy wiki, but it is unfinished.
aristotle, rhetoric
I’ve read this and it’s 2000 years old… I don’t want something written by primitives.
Samegay
... that's kind of scary how hard some of you aristotle coons believe 'rhetoric' is out to get you by a big conspiracy.
I thought it was Playdough that hated rhetoric?
doesnt really matter what plato hated, people point to aristotle or plato like they point to the bible; there's really nothing there to be learned and they don't know anything about it themselves...
..whilst 'socratic philosophy' is very much different to rhetoric in its origin and timeline. there's some overlap but... rhetoric develops into formal proof-based science, whereas philosophy develops into formal fantasy-based religion. that's probably the easiest way to describe it.
I guess but rhetoric without grounding in actual meaning is just empty platitudes
this is true, that's why rhetoric develops and relies on a proof-basis and the speaker being able to articulate a complex case; which is why I say Quintilian is the first place to go.
Chrysippus of Soli developed the 'scientific method' of proofs which became stoicism, blurring with 'philosophy', really that's almost all you need to realize that in order to convince other people you have actually be right about what your saying in order to be able to demonstrate the truth of it. Stoicism is still useful, the authors of it like Rufus, in that they're against peer pressure and things like that which is what 'bad rhetoric' as opposed to 'good rhetoric' relies on. But bad rhetoric is inactionable since a speaker appealing to the mob can only copy what the mob wants to do and cannot convince them to do anything requiring effort, whereas logical speech may not convince 100 useless people but it will convince 10 useful people who are far more valuable than the 100 useless people.
Plato's entire corpus is a work of deathless rhetoric, they are together a still breathing orator.
>muh platootoods
This guy is a Heraclitus fan for sure
Wittgenstein was the takeaway i got, but ok
he hated sophists. who tend to use rhetoric.
that is to say, he hated rhetoric that is used to polish up a bad argument. Not rhetoric itself.
>he hated sophists
philo+soph
OP is just a moron, tht's all. I think he's looking for things like ... "power of subtle suggestion and peer pressure" to get people to maybe do what he wants in a 50 yr time span; like women think, whereas I made the mistake of thinking he was asking for how to demonstrate factual cases and refute people with ideas and have people do what he wants in a 3 minute timespan instead.
uh let's try again,
try NLP i guess - anything with a foreword by katy perry, and maybe study how hillary clinton speaks.
OP didn't as for queer theory, plato nerd
Marcus Fabius Quintilian, Institutes of Oratory.
Constantine VII, Imperial Administration.
remainder of semester should be spent studying composition in Marcus Valerius Martialis, Epigrams.
supplementum ad nauseum:
Michel Montaigne, Joseph Addison, Douglas William Jerrold
AUTISM ALERT
BEEP BEEP BEEP
oh i see, you want to learn rhetoric but you want to remain as a snorting dooling pleb minus 99% of your human logic and human speech, gotcha yeah hm, not sure what to reccoooomend in that case? Maybe Katie Perry.
AUTISM ALERT
BEEP BEEP BEEP
uh huh ... and ... why is that?
if you want to learn how to think and reason properly you can't possibly think you can, like, become a professional sportsman and stay as a fat boy laying on the couch. Your entire life has to change. If you think "thinking logically" is 'autism' then you've got no fricking chance.
read again; shut your mouth, do as i say if you want to go somewhere with this topic:
Probably the book Ancient Rhetoric, from there Richard Weaver and Kenneth Burke are your best bets
best internet resource is this guy specializing in rhetoric, tibfulv, give him a google, very helpful
My thread has been ruined by schizo posters.
Hug your plushy, sweetie, the storm will pass.
>21 replies
>6 posters
Well, yea. I guess one schizo counts as many. I have aristotles rethoric but i basically never read it since i think it's redundant now (not aristotle, but rethoric in general would be a redundant read)
why would it be redundant?
Because i no longer need it
And don't correct my english as i have no respect for this ugly ass language. Rhetoric, that just looks moronic. Ugly language for ugly inbred morons
lawl
then go away and don't speak english, believe me we're indundated with third worlders from greece telling us popular information from30 yrs ago about plato.
>My thread
well frogurt,
what the frick do you mean by 'rhetoric'? you've had the best answers and the worst answers, if these didn't illuminate you HMM perhaps you've confused rhetoric with being something else entirely, like cheese?
why do you constantly misspell it as 'rethoric'? do you have a learning disability?
>rethoric
>rethoric
>muh aristotle muh aristotle is the best
>yeh havent read aristotle actually
>(misspells subject word repeatedly)
automatic handguns were invented to crack the frontal cortex of people like you, dysgen.
Interested in this topic as well. I read Latour's "Science in Action" and it's interesting how he ties rhetoric into the social construction of science. He cited specifically "The New Rhetoric", by Perelman and Brechts-Tyteca.
I guess a good primer would be "Classical Rhetoric for the modern student", even if it's dry and academic. Obviously Aristotle and Cicero's works are very important from an historical perspective, but I guess it depends on your goals.
The best resource I found is actually the reading list from (yes, I know) r/rhetoric. There is also a chart on the IQfy wiki, but it is unfinished.