>Atheists: there's nothing after death
..I wish you were right, but unfortunately, nothing doesn't exist. There is always something. Always.
Besides what do you all mean by 'nothing'?
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>Atheists: there's nothing after death
>Atheists: there's nothing after death
..I wish you were right, but unfortunately, nothing doesn't exist. There is always something. Always.
Besides what do you all mean by 'nothing'?
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What were you experiencing before you were conceived?
Don't know, I thought you knew the answers along with theists.
There was no "you" before you were conceived.
Exactly, and death is the same
No it's not because your soul still exists.
My what?
My bad, forgot atheists don't have souls.
The atheists can't even define what their "nothing" is.
The lack of any kind of experience or stimulation. Unconsciousness. If you still claim not to understand, you’re being deliberately obtuse.
>The lack of any kind of experience or stimulation. Unconsciousness.
I understand what this is but can you go further with this?
Like a coma or a dreamless sleep
Are you sure that is exactly what that is?
Yes.. What are you trying to get at here?
A state of death and unconsciousness are 2 different things as
mentions
If you compare non-existence to sleep then you don't really understand what you're talking about
If you think a person somehow still exists in an ineffable way when they cease to have brain activity, then whatever. But that “existence” doesn’t involve the ability to think, move, or use any senses.
You're completely missing the point. Yes, you can 100% die when you die and there can be no soul and that can still be compatible with what I'm saying. The very phenomenon of conscious experience can't just end, however. Whether that takes the form of an afterlife or reincarnation or something else, I don't know. I just know that "nothing forever" is not a thing.
>The very phenomenon of conscious experience can't just end, however.
By definition it does you insane moron lol.
> The very phenomenon of conscious experience can't just end, however.
> Whether that takes the form of an afterlife or reincarnation or something else, I don't know.
So how do you know this to be true in the first place?? You just keep insisting it. You see things getting irreversibly destroyed all the time; what makes you think conscious experience can’t work that way?
It's just self evident. If you've ever had your wisdom teeth removed or something and you get general anesthesia, you know that your experience is that you're just sitting in the dentist's chair one moment and then you just teleport to the waiting room the next. It's like a brief death and resurrection. Now try to conceptualize that but without the waking up on the other side, just an eternity of "non-time". You can't do it. It's like trying to think about dividing by zero, it just doesn't make sense.
Not making sense to humans doesn't mean impossible though
I trust my reason and intuition.
Reson and intuition don't say consciousness is infinite
Mine does. If yours doesn't then you haven't thought about it enough.
>I believe these things are true, therefore they are true
Riveting stuff anon, keep us updated
Christ you're fricking moronic. I genuinely hope this is just a LARP and you're not actually this unhinged.
>Now try to conceptualize that but without the waking up on the other side, just an eternity of "non-time". You can't do it.
I can do it just fine. You’re acting like I’m asking you to picture 5 dimensions, Anon.
No you can't. You're either lying or you don't understand the problem.
There is no problem. If you are unconscious for two hours, you don't "experience two hours of unconsciousness" because you aren't actually experiencing. In the same vein, it is nonsensical to say that if your consciousness ends permanently, you experience an eternity of nothingness.
>Now try to conceptualize that but without the waking up on the other side, just an eternity of "non-time".
That's pretty easy, I don't know what you're having a problem with.
What? Just think about not "waking up" its easy i die and never wake up and the "non-time" is forever*
The fact that you can't visualize infinity proves consciousness is limited
In my experience with anesthesia there are two types, the one where you're conscious but unable to form memories (if you've ever been given too little gas you'd know what I mean) and the other injection type you get when getting intensive surgery, which puts you OUT out but that I've still had dreams during. My conscious experience has never "ended" and then started back up, it can feel like that if you can't remember but that doesn't mean it's the case.
>The very phenomenon of conscious experience can't just end, however.
because you say so?
>"nothing forever" is not a thing.
Yes it is. You will be completely unconscious when you die, and then you will be resurrected in the day of judgement to give you what you deserve according to your deeds, whether good or bad.
Ask anyone who has ever been under general anesthesia, it is complete nothingness. The closes thing you can experience to time travel, one second you are being gassed and the next you are awaking after surgery and hours have passed.
I've been under anesthesia. I didn't just see nothingness. I was floating to different places.
That is not general anesthesia. When you are given general anesthesia you have no consciousness of anything at all.
I was given general anesthesia when I was almost dying. I was conscious.
Souls exist as much as the Flat Earth.
They don't, they are misinterpretated observations done by ancient people with none of the tools and knowledge of underlying context.
You are not merely piloting a flesh mech, you are the flesh mech. You will fall alongside it, as a part of it. Sinking as both the ship and the captain.
There is no Ghost in the Machine.
We see ghosts and can contact the dead from spirit mediums and the ouija boards.
Sorry Tom, it was me moving the wooden part with my hand. I thought it would be funny to freak you out.
False though, and NDEs prove it: https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc2293047/m2/1/high_res_d/40-3_5_BR_Klaunig.pdf
>fabricated or manipulated data, blatant hallucinations, fanatism and lies
If this is all it takes to convinxce you...
You can contact spirits by psychic mediums and ouija boards.
Atheoids say that there is nothing forever after you die. That makes it quite literally infinitely different than the "nothing" before you were born. Because that nothing ended, you were born. Non-being for eternity is a logical contradiction, it doesn't make sense.
>Non-being for eternity is a logical contradiction, it doesn't make sense.
I know, so, what the frick do they even mean by this?
The “for eternity” part means “you cease to exist permanently, and never exist again.”
>“you cease to exist permanently, and never exist again.”
but wasn't this the case before I was born? and didn't that change by my being born?
You were created by your parents DNA.
You are created, you live, and then you die. Anon a good portion of your life is spent unconscious in sleep while not dreaming. This shouldn’t surprise you.
You weren't "nothing" all of your body's constituants already existed, you were assembled by your mother in the womb and grew with what you consumed.... you as a human being organism.
You as your conscious self on the other end is a product of circumstances, you feeling your evironment as you grew a brain, the hormones influencing your mood, the education you've received, the influence of others, the decisions you've made.... You were shaped as well.
It's better to think of yourself as both the product and an extension of your environment. But it's not simple determinism, like a planet or other astral objects you have your own "gravity" and influence, your "mass" represents your complexity. Because you are a complex being you influence things more.
As a product of circumstances, you are a one-time thing. Infinity suggests things similar to you might happen everywhere "infinitely similar" to you but they're not you, there is only one you and it is the you as of now. Once gone it will never rise again.
You are infinitely unique
Aren't we the sum of our genes? And a continuance thereof? So clearly we existed and did experience.
You have some mutations unique to you, so this argument doesn’t work
But still, there couldn't have been nothing. There was something that precipitated our existence, namedly our parents, and then I am supposed to expect that "nothing" happens after?
>There was something that precipitated our existence, namedly our parents
You are the parents to someone else's being in this case. Another stage in a cycle that you most likely will break.
frick off Theseus
I have pre birth memories.
of what? being in your dads nuts?
You have schizophrenia, anon
I could experience memories from my parents points of view.
Name five of your dad's friends from elementary school.
Snuffy, Al, Leo, Little Moe with the gimpy leg, Cheeks, Boney Bob, Cliff... I could go on forever, baby.
I was living my previous life.
Your experience ceases to exist after you die. The world presumably continues existing.
The experience of the person you are now, sure. Experience generally can't just stop, it by definition must be in some form at all times.
That's more of a matter of your theory of personal identity though. If you think that every conscious being possesses the same identity, then yeah you'll obviously live as long as there are conscious beings.
It has nothing to do with personal identity. "Being", by definition, must be because there is quite simply no alternative. Non-being is not a state that can be for any amount of time.
Alright, have fun trying to play wonderwall on your guitar after I put it through a wood chipper.
>Non-being is not a state that can be for any amount of time.
Cool. Where is your trillion dollar bank account and qt trad wife? There is no such thing as non-being after all.
Atheists btfo, Parmenides victories once again.
Nothig as in you perceive nothing; it's not hard to grasp anon
>There is always something. Always.
There is. Just without you.
Have you if ever gone under general anesthesia for surgery? Those who have know what it's like to experience nothing for a period of time.
What happens to your sandcastle once the waves wash it away?
If I smash your compteur into a fine powder, where does the software & data go?
So... what happens when your organs fail, your cells die and decompose and your memories and thoughts fade away from your dead brain?
It doesn't "return to nothing" none of the sand of the sandcastle is lost, none of the electrons that encrypted the software are loss and none of the matter that makes your dead body is loss.
Everything gets recycled. Nothing is created or destroyed only transformed.
You yourself are made of dead matter recycled, of what you ate what your mother ate when she was pregnant and giving you milk.
But you are not the "reincarnated" anything, you are a unique composition. Even with infinity in mind, whatever resembles you in infinte reoccurence of design is just that; *alike* not *you*. You are unique.
Once your brain ceases so does your conscious self, it is merely thoughts processing. The accumulation of your experiences and feels through your senses, the lingering memories stored within and their cognition. You are the product of your evironment. There is no "soul" the primitive understanding of the conscious experience.
But acknowledging that doesn't change anything about how you *feel*. You are no mere puppet, you are your own agent as a concentration of biological and mental complexity you have your own "gravity of influence" and can affect the environment that affects you back more if not tenfold.
Beside, you may crumble away but you should know it's not easy to be forgotten. All of your actions, your very existence, affected the world around you including the people close to you. You left imprints, memories behind. They will linger and cause butterfly effect, like a ripple vibrating the world and its future long after you no longer are of the present but of the past.
And you can make those imprints on purpose, working on lasting works & projects, get to know people to remember you
%3D%3D
The great truth is there isn't one
And it only gets worse since that conclusion
The irony of being an extension to nothing
And the force of inertia is now a vital factor
No no no no!! NOOOOOOOOOO!!
Wow, cool. Guess I get to live forever.
>soul
No, but seriously. What's a soul?
It's
ancient fringe pseudoscience. Like humorism or miasma.
Pro-tip: atheists do not exists outside of edgy 15 yos, when you grow up you become agnostic.
It's silly to claim that you know what happens after death. To not know is alright.
>agnostic
Are you agnostic about a hidden, undetectable teapot behind Mars? Are you agnostic about unicorns? Are you agnostic about the gold pot at the rainbow's end?
Agnostics are self-jerking twats that think they're "smart and rational" but in the end they're no different from deists and theists.They still pretend Fantasy and magic can be real.
Either they refuse to or simply do not take the time to realize that there is no point in entertaining the possibility of obviously made-up and false claims outside of fiction. They are children with a Ouija board.
Ouija boards can contact actual spirits. However be warned that the spirits are often evil and can mess with you. People have bad things happen to them when using a ouija board.
ITT : mediums who went in the realm of the dead and came back
If Life is all there is then whyvall cultures across the glode believed invthe soul and afterlife??? Weird coincidence
If there’s only one God then why was practically every advanced culture on the Earth polytheist before the rise of Christianity?
If God is real why is irreligion winning?
All these arguments are equally moronic as yours
People were never wise, they worshipped all that they though were gods, the spirits of the sun, the moon, the stars, the fallen watchers and their children. Idols, statues, images, other people, animals, demons etc. Only a few men in the world who passed down knowledge of the Most High from Adam to Enoch to Noah to Shem and to Abraham ever understood that there was only 1 God who created everything and was above all. Abraham walked faithfully before God and lived a blameless life in fear and obedience to God so God made a covenant with him and adopted his descendants. God taught his descendants about the true ways to worship and gave them all the teachings and rules and laws that makes a man righteous and holy and leads to immortality. So through them the whole world could have access to this knowledge and have a chance to also worship God correctly and walk in his path of righteousness if they believed in the teachings given by God and put them into practice.
It does not matter if there are billions in the world and all believe in false teachings, only the ones who live righteously will be saved, even if they are just 1000 out of 100 billion. This word is cursed and doomed to destruction, God has been patiently collecting all the salvageable men that have been sprouting in this dying world along the way before the final day of the world arrives, and when he creates the new perfect and incorruptible world, he will allow them to live in it because they believed in God and obeyed him.
They don't thoughever, Buddhism literally has no soul for instance.
Pureland Buddhism has an afterlife and so do some other forms.
OK and? That is just one branch which runs in direct contradiction to Anatta.
Because they didn’t know any better and that’s a less scary story.