Sit down, chair or floor, rest your hands on your knees or your lap, and begin to pay attention to your breath. Don't try to control your breath, just observe it, let your thoughts come and go. If your mind wanders, bring your attention back to your breath. Same with any distraction.
There, that's basic proper meditation.
Meditation is wide subject and there's so many ways to do it, that you should be more specific what you're looking for. Any introduction to Buddhism should have instructions, but most likely to type of meditation I just told you earlier.
no, shut the frick up
OP, THIS is the fake western bullshit; DON'T hear it
https://i.imgur.com/PZqSKWL.jpg
None of the fake western buddhism stuff. Books on how to do it properly?
go for zen meditation.
TL;DR "just sit"
Follow that, do it earnestly, and it won't lead you astray
this video got me started: https://youtu.be/8T-Z1WoFXkk
https://antaiji.org/en/dharma/
this website and link will take you to the translated version of a zen monastery from japan
i practice in their tradition
all resources they provide are fricking IT
also, straight from the horses mouth (founder of japanese zen), there's this https://antaiji.org/en/classics/zazengi/,
this https://antaiji.org/en/classics/fukanzazengi/,
and this https://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/Dogen_Teachings/Shobogenzo/026zazenShin.pdf,
of which the latter was the most useful for me
Just to add you need a teacher to practise any kind of Zen. You might be able to start without a little but past a very basic level it's absolutely required. Dogen said you should get a teacher to teach you shikantaza in the first place
Doug's Dharma is good for this
He is what you'd call a western Buddhist since he promotes secular Buddhism but he also respects the literature of early Buddhism and cites it often
the only one I've read on the matter is Mindfulness In Plain English by a venerated monk, Bhante Gunaratana. seems pretty legit, without westernism infused into it. it talks very lightly about Buddhism and misconceptions about it and Vipassana meditation, but it is mostly about how to meditate, what problems you are likely to run into, and how to work around them (or face them head on). I go back to it periodically. I've really only been seriously meditating for a year and some change though, so take it for what it's worth
>Europe belongs to non-Europeans because it began with them >America belongs to indians because it began with them >Japan belongs to the Ainu because it began with them >IQfy belongs to weebs because it began with them
Weebs are genuinely braindead. Watching anime is a common sign of a below average IQ.
>Europe belongs to non-Europeans because it began with them
This is not like the others. Nice try, though. Did you realise that your argument could be used against Europeans, so you freaked out and made up shit.
With western sources on Buddhism generally your best bet is looking for people who have (1) spent time in the indigenous context especially living and studying with monks, (2) have command of an Asian language (Pali, Sanskrit, Tibetan, Chinese or Japanese), (3) published books explaining actual material in Buddhism and not just giving their personal opinion. You want to meet as much of the criteria as possible. A good example off the top of my head is Karl Brunnholzl. Avoid translators who are allergic to retaining any Sanskrit vocabulary, they are only moderately helpful at best.
The Mind Illuminated is a sober no-nonsense and very detailed guide. It's true that there are traditions such as Zen that put the emphasis on 'just sitting' but don't forget that in those cases there's a strong social net of support. For someone getting into into by themselves a detailed and structured guide offers more to hang on to, I think .
Also
The thing is that Buddhism is very much not a "sober no-nonsense" religion. I don't like these secularised methods that distill traditional teachings and attempt to strip them of their religious trappings. Those trappings exist for a reason, they are the structure that supports the practitioners at all their various levels. The social element is, unfortunately, essential. I know that TMI is not strictly "secular" but secularisation of Buddhism in general is never really going to work. That said, mindfulness is useful outside of a Buddhist context, but I think that TMI goes too far in aiming towards high levels of attainment which are not appropriate for most people
all those "places" are transient and would end up happening eventually in some form or another. Giving up halfway is the worst thing you can do
t. went through hell and back, now everything is so much better I unironically can't imagine why I'd ever put this stuff off.
I mean, life isn't all about spiritual practise. I have to take care of worldly matters and my worldly life too. The situation in the west is such that most people who get involved in spiritual practise do so to avoid problems in their own life, which is not a solid basis for practise. Also, we should not denigrate lay people in general
> Giving up halfway is the worst thing you can do
You just said the worst thing you can do is not try at all, now you are saying the worst thing you can do is try and give up, which are totally different things. Also, you aren't at the end of the path yet, so you can't tell if you will fall again.
>I have to take care of worldly matters and my worldly life too
All those things exist for (subtle and indirect) personal, spiritual and interpersonal development though. The worst thing you can do is prioritize survival for the sake of survival that never actually does anything, and it really doesn't take that much time after putting away the fear of survival to understand some eternity spanning things which retroactively make the rest of your life's problems very manageable and easy to fit into the scope of a single course (I speak form personal experience but even before I got where I am I would struggle to fathom this idea, but the more gates you pass through the better literally everything is). >Also, you aren't at the end of the path yet, so you can't tell if you will fall again.
Spiritual development, independent of just Nibbana is literally infinite because there's an infinite amount of wisdom to the universe rather than a finite one.
9 months ago
Anonymous
This already sounds like spiritual bypassing to me, be careful
9 months ago
Anonymous
Can't agree, everyone who goes into the spiritual has some problem or another and one major wisdom I learned during my development is "use intuition do something without thinking about something else", at which point I go through the mundane but just with much better wisdom and skills rather than needing to cling to spiritual narcissism. I don't know who said it, but there's a nice quote that goes along the lines of >"man plows field, takes break, gets enlightened, goes back to plowing field"
9 months ago
Anonymous
Well, you have not attained enlightenment, but again, meditation is not suitable for everything. My teacher told me "Zen is not therapy", and most Buddhist teachers I know say that if you have depression (for example) you should treat it first before attempting any significant spiritual practise
9 months ago
Anonymous
>meditation is not suitable for everything
Meditation is not the only form of spiritual development, lets say vidya is as well. And I don't think you are going to treat whatever body/mental/emotional/spiritual, wherever you categorize depression, by avoiding truths. From my experience amongst friends the best cure for depression is just unimposing truth + honest empathic community.
9 months ago
Anonymous
> lets say vidya is as well
No it isn't
> And I don't think you are going to treat whatever body/mental/emotional/spiritual, wherever you categorize depression, by avoiding truths. From my experience amongst friends the best cure for depression is just unimposing truth + honest empathic community.
I mean, whatever mental health treatment is considered efficacious and offered by the person's healthcare, be it CBT, DBT, psychoanalysis, medication, etc. I know many ordained Zen teachers who are on anti-depressants
>The social element is, unfortunately, essential.
As a lay practitioner in the west I have no other choice than to go at it on my own. I think you're just going to end up confused and frustrated trying to deduce instructions for practice from original texts. Meditation isn't easy and TMI's straightforwardness and structure really help me to keep at it while studying philosophy alongside it. TMI nods toward the religious part of practice where appropriate and I appreciate that. I've only been practicing for a few months though so maybe I'll change my mind.
9 months ago
Anonymous
> As a lay practitioner in the west I have no other choice than to go at it on my own
Well, Zen for example is a tradition with by far the most representation in the west. In most western countries it's easy to find a high-quality Zen sangha and an ordained Zen teacher with a lineage stretching back to the Buddha
In fact, most forms of Buddhism have a pretty strong representation in the west, and even if you can't find one, there are a huge number of online teachers who offer their services, both free and paid
There are a bunch of options out there
9 months ago
Anonymous
Ok, I haven't earnestly considered it tbh. Have you done the same?
9 months ago
Anonymous
Yes, I practised under an ordained Zen teacher in a sangha in the UK for about 2 years. It was during COVID though
>breath meditation is not real or proper
The power of someone looking for exotic, I see. Eastern mysticism will give you super powers for sure.
Breath meditation is real and proper, it's even used in the Zen that he loves
9 months ago
Anonymous
>I practised under an ordained Zen teacher in a sangha in the UK for about 2 years
How does it even work if you're a 9-5'er and not a monastic? You go over there and sit cross-legged and he hits you with a stick? I'm Belgian.
Are you still practicing in some form? Thread is too chaotic; can't make up which poster you are.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Usually there are one or two sessions a week, and you go and sit there for two 30-45 minute sessions, often with walking meditation (kisshin) in between. You usually will also maintain your own practise at home, usually with instructions from the teacher. In some places there may be interviews where you get a chance to talk to the teacher one on one in a formal setting, and there may also be a Dharma talk afterwards.
Hitting with a stick is not a thing. Even in Japan, you are only hit with a stick if you ask for it (which you ask for by doing gassho) in order to wake you up.
I'm not practising Zen anymore. Unfortunately I got a knee injury from too much sitting meditation and had to stop.
I don't live in Belgium but I live in Germany and there are many good Zen sanghas here, same in France, and also the UK.
I know, I wonder why he had that reaction. Which makes me doubt he really meditates.
People come across a new thing and jump on it and attach to it to the exclusion of all other things. Perhaps he has had success with "just sitting" meditation, so now he is sure it is the way and that breath meditation is not the way.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>I got a knee injury
How did that happen? What do you recommend? I do 'seiza' because it's condusive to breathing and all that, but I'm worried about the strain it may put on my knees. Do you blame your teacher for not preventing your injury?
9 months ago
Anonymous
I think my teacher is partly to blame for not having a good alternative for me and for convincing me to sit in pain, but really it's impossible to know why it happened. I can't really recommend anything, sitting for such long periods as a westerner used to a chair just comes with risks. Thankfully the injury isn't really really bad, but I don't want to make it worse, since I'm only 28 after all. Honestly there have been times where I feel disabled due to it, especially since my wife and I love to go hiking, and now we have to be much more careful when doing so
9 months ago
Anonymous
I know, I wonder why he had that reaction. Which makes me doubt he really meditates.
>Those trappings exist for a reason, they are the structure that supports the practitioners at all their various levels. The social element is, unfortunately, essential.
This is true but not helpful for us westerners. Following TMI is better than larping at being Burmese or Tibetan.
Unfortunately Buddhism is sectarian in a way that almost always coincides with national borders and ethnic identities.
"just sit" zen meditation is only found in the soto sect
rinzai, on the other hand, is the complete opposite, as its explained here
there's also the books by meido moore "The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice" and "Hidden Zen: Practices for Sudden Awakening and Embodied Realization"
everything boils down to control and restraining of breath focusing on the lower abdomen(tanden), its very different from just "following" the breath, at a first glance it even seems unnatural to "force" the breath this way, but nevertheless, it leads to samadhi,
Sekida explains everything on his "zen training", even how to practice with a koan
That’s false. Rinzai also practises shikantaza, just, they consider it to be a very advanced practise and it’s usually done after the koan curriculum is completed
Please don't. Every single meditationgay I have met has been insufferable, to such a degree that I looked up the term "spiritual narcissism" and found out that it is actually a widely seen phenomenon and is widely considered the major pitfall of meditation by actual buddhists (tenfold more true for westerners, who are already approaching meditation from a egoist-focused cultural background as well as from egoist motivations of self-improvement or similar wank).
Sitting still and perceiving your own thoughts and finding that endlessly interesting is peak homosexual. Self-monitoring will turn you into an even greater neurotic than you already are. Do it long enough, and you will internalize a belief that you are enlightened, wise, and see through the veil of ignorance, whereas everyone else doesn't - this internalized belief will manifest in your behavior and turn you into the ultra-peak homosexual.
I have known dozens of western meditationgays, without fail, they were gargantuan homosexuals. ESPECIALLY the ones seeking "authenticity".
Do not fall for it anon. Do not become a hyper-peak homosexual.
Giving insufferable people the clarity to attach warning labels to themselves is of great merit and benefit to others, who otherwise might not have known the true nature of said persons and been misled
I'd be inclined to agree with you if it weren't for the fact that I've had good acquaintances, who were good hangs and interesting conversation partners, gradually but surely turn into giga-homosexuals from meditation, before my very eyes.
It's not just a signpost for a homosexualry that is already there (though it can be), it can just as easily end up being the root cause or a potent fertilizer for homosexualry that did not exist beforehand to grow and blossom.
That's who they were all along though. If you can't be alone with your own thoughts without becoming a lousy person you are completely undisciplined and living a charade. Given the frequent jeremiads penned on this site about the state of contemporary westoids it should come as no surprise that so many people are toxic once unveiled, and if they are uninterested in doing anything about that, you might say they were better off playing pretend instead of meditating, but that has more to do with the company you keep and expedience than with any higher principle. Why do you think the Tibetans make those painting with ugly demons all over them as meditation aids? Why do the sutras tell you to imagine the body as blood and guts and pus, as a bloated corpse, as bloody bones, as dry bones, as dust? The narcissist is only accepting of the phenomena he enjoys, and is ignoring the rest.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>That's who they were all along though.
No, I don't believe in this essentialism. You become what you do. If what you do is constantly monitor your own thoughts and find them endlessly fascinating, you will turn narcissist. If you don't, you likely wont. No one is born a narcissist.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>monitor your own thoughts
this is the idea >and find them endlessly fascinating
this is the snare all the literature is against
if you can't hack it then better luck next life, but it is worth trying
9 months ago
Anonymous
>If what you do is constantly monitor your own thoughts and find them endlessly fascinating
this is the opposite of what you're supposed to be doing in meditation
>That's who they were all along though.
No, I don't believe in this essentialism. You become what you do. If what you do is constantly monitor your own thoughts and find them endlessly fascinating, you will turn narcissist. If you don't, you likely wont. No one is born a narcissist.
Please don't. Every single meditationgay I have met has been insufferable, to such a degree that I looked up the term "spiritual narcissism" and found out that it is actually a widely seen phenomenon and is widely considered the major pitfall of meditation by actual buddhists (tenfold more true for westerners, who are already approaching meditation from a egoist-focused cultural background as well as from egoist motivations of self-improvement or similar wank).
Sitting still and perceiving your own thoughts and finding that endlessly interesting is peak homosexual. Self-monitoring will turn you into an even greater neurotic than you already are. Do it long enough, and you will internalize a belief that you are enlightened, wise, and see through the veil of ignorance, whereas everyone else doesn't - this internalized belief will manifest in your behavior and turn you into the ultra-peak homosexual.
I have known dozens of western meditationgays, without fail, they were gargantuan homosexuals. ESPECIALLY the ones seeking "authenticity".
Do not fall for it anon. Do not become a hyper-peak homosexual.
>i have had multiple people engage in self improvement and as they continue to improve and i stagnate i begin to despise them
Have you considered that the problem here is you?
9 months ago
Anonymous
This automatic assumption of projection, or the worst intentions imaginable is very tiresome (and not particularly buddhist, enlightened, or marked by equanimity - if you insist on trading boring jabs. Perhaps you should meditate some more?).
I don't stagnate, and the people I know who meditate most assuredly have not improved in any meaningful sense of the word because of it. They have become more self-absorbed and because of this self-absorption, a lot more insufferable. Compare that to sedentary people who take up regular exercise (I've taught several of my friends the fundamentals of lifting), who become more fun, energetic and engaged in the world, and it is a night and day difference. One is self-improvement (if you insist, though I detest the term) the other is masturbation.
I invite you to look up the term I used, "spiritual narcissism" - it is quite literally measurable and by now a fairly well-known phenomenon in the western world. And to reiterate, it is a phenomenon so common that almost every meditation instructor dedicates lengthy discourse to saying it is the greatest danger of meditation.
>monitor your own thoughts
this is the idea >and find them endlessly fascinating
this is the snare all the literature is against
if you can't hack it then better luck next life, but it is worth trying
>this is the snare all the literature is against
Indeed it is, and the one that every practitioner I've known (more than a dozen) has fallen into. I think the reason why is that these western practitioners never actually have an in-person teacher, but hack it from half-read instruction manuals with all the default mentality that comes from a) being a westerner and b) explicitly trying out meditation to become a "better" ego (which usually means a more competitive ego).
I do not see why it is worth trying it all. There are endless other ways to achieve equanimity, or whatever it is you are trying to do - unless of course you subscribe wholesale to an exotic religion and it's associated metaphysics, in which case, what on earth compelled you to do that?
Lasch is 99% on point when it comes to western neo-spirituality. No one is aiming for ego-death. They are aiming for an ego with a new toolset that gives it a leg-up in competition.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>There are endless other ways to achieve equanimity, or whatever it is you are trying to do
Name 10. Equanimity and increased focus at the same time, with visible differences in patterns of behaviour
>No one is aiming for ego-death.
No tradition is aiming for ego death and the goal of meditation isn't ego death to begin with
9 months ago
Anonymous
shut the frick up you drooling homosexual fricking moron. I hate know-nothing c**ts trying to dunk on posters who are actually, completely, unequivocally right about what they're talking about because they're self-important know-nothing c**ts.
This automatic assumption of projection, or the worst intentions imaginable is very tiresome (and not particularly buddhist, enlightened, or marked by equanimity - if you insist on trading boring jabs. Perhaps you should meditate some more?).
I don't stagnate, and the people I know who meditate most assuredly have not improved in any meaningful sense of the word because of it. They have become more self-absorbed and because of this self-absorption, a lot more insufferable. Compare that to sedentary people who take up regular exercise (I've taught several of my friends the fundamentals of lifting), who become more fun, energetic and engaged in the world, and it is a night and day difference. One is self-improvement (if you insist, though I detest the term) the other is masturbation.
I invite you to look up the term I used, "spiritual narcissism" - it is quite literally measurable and by now a fairly well-known phenomenon in the western world. And to reiterate, it is a phenomenon so common that almost every meditation instructor dedicates lengthy discourse to saying it is the greatest danger of meditation.
[...] >this is the snare all the literature is against
Indeed it is, and the one that every practitioner I've known (more than a dozen) has fallen into. I think the reason why is that these western practitioners never actually have an in-person teacher, but hack it from half-read instruction manuals with all the default mentality that comes from a) being a westerner and b) explicitly trying out meditation to become a "better" ego (which usually means a more competitive ego).
I do not see why it is worth trying it all. There are endless other ways to achieve equanimity, or whatever it is you are trying to do - unless of course you subscribe wholesale to an exotic religion and it's associated metaphysics, in which case, what on earth compelled you to do that?
Lasch is 99% on point when it comes to western neo-spirituality. No one is aiming for ego-death. They are aiming for an ego with a new toolset that gives it a leg-up in competition.
Hello my friend. You might enjoy this paper. It's a long one but vindicates every last one of your insights in an extremely crisp style.
(you can just google the paper title and it'll give you a direct .pdf link)
9 months ago
Anonymous
The Buddha told us to judge people by their words and actions. Therefore, you should ignore this guy. His speech is very wrong
9 months ago
Anonymous
Even the Buddha got frustrated with shitwits. Frick off
9 months ago
Anonymous
No, he didn't. Literally, an enlightened being is incapable of becoming frustrated. Any harsh words he gave were purely to teach others, not to express his frustration. He had completely eliminated the three poisons, so he had no hatred.
9 months ago
Anonymous
You sound easily angered. Maybe you should consider meditating for a few weeks
9 months ago
Anonymous
No, he didn't. Literally, an enlightened being is incapable of becoming frustrated. Any harsh words he gave were purely to teach others, not to express his frustration. He had completely eliminated the three poisons, so he had no hatred.
>tone policing narcissist homosexuals
have a nice day
9 months ago
Anonymous
Whatever meditation he's doing, it isn't working. This is one of the reasons why I decided to quit practising Soto Zen with my teacher, I was not well convinced that it actually led to a reduction in suffering, let alone awakening. I've met a huge number of people who have done vast amounts of high quality meditation with high quality teachers and yet still are quick to anger. Actually, the calmest people I know don't meditate at all.
We should not forget, that the kalama sutta outlines the guidelines on which we should decide between this path and that path. If the path does not lead to a reduction in suffering for others, we should not follow it.
[...] >tone policing narcissist homosexuals
have a nice day
Similarly, if the path does not lead to an improvement in their ethical behaviour, the kalama sutta tells us that we should not follow it. Any speech you give from anger is a direct proof of the inefficacy of whatever path you are following. Of course, I don't know much about your path, but if you claimed to be a skilled meditator or have some kind of insight, this behaviour would be a direct proof against that
9 months ago
Anonymous
>post about how I agree that western meditation routines are dogshit >everyone thinks I was claiming to be a bodhisattva
you're all fricking morons
9 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not claiming that you were claiming to be anything. Since there is a lot in this thread about Buddhist meditation, I'm just giving the Buddhist reason why you should not be listened to
9 months ago
Anonymous
I recommended a great paper and called the wormy know-nothing c**t the wormy know-nothing c**t that he is. I hate seeing good posters getting dogpiled by gotcha homosexuals. A man has his limits. I don't meditate because it does nothing for me. I am pathless and will probably kill myself out of rage and spite and self-hatred
9 months ago
Anonymous
Well, you can see why most anons wouldn't want to be like you or agree with you
9 months ago
Anonymous
Shove it up your ass you fricking lizard Black person, I'm hot-blooded, so sue me. I've got a better intellectual grasp on Buddhism than anyone in this thread
9 months ago
Anonymous
An intellectual grasp on Buddhism is as useful as having an intellectual grasp on going to the gym. If you can't practise it, you can't really comment on it
9 months ago
Anonymous
My defilements are too dense and too ingrown, there's no hope for me. The least I can do is dunk on know-nothing c**ts.
9 months ago
Anonymous
I mean, that's categorically false. One of the ways that you could help yourself is by not "dunking on know-nothing c**ts." For example, you could develop your mindfulness, such that when you notice yourself come to anger, you could have time to decide not to perform wrong speech. I don't think there are any humans who don't have the capability to be aware of their own thoughts.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Angrily posting on IQfy is the last link in a very long chain of obscurities and defilements. I've read so many books on so many soteriological traditions from all over the world but I still depend on articulate IQfy posters to distill their central insights. I am too defective and afraid of myself/others. You with your apparent bodhisattva-like wisdom should be able to understand this
9 months ago
Anonymous
Well, I don't even meditate, in fact I abandoned Buddhism long ago, since I was just using it to escape pain and issues in my own life. I'm certainly not no longer a bodhisattva. However, I know that if we followed it properly we would reduce our suffering
>In Chan and Zen there is an unbroken succession from the Buddha with little revision. The same is true of Tibetan Buddhism and Vajrayana in general.
No, that's only their claim precisely to pass as buddhist.
Regardless, even if you doubt the lineage, there is no evidence of significant revisionism in these traditions like in the Theravada. They are still heavily based in the Mahayana sutras. For a while I was actually a Pure Land Buddhist, which really has nothing in it that isn't in the Three Pure Land sutras. Really, sticking to the Mahayana sutras, you can't go wrong
9 months ago
Anonymous
Forgive me. This has been just another reminder in a mile-long list of reminders that what I'm doing is simply not working. I wish you well
9 months ago
Anonymous
>I do not see why it is worth trying it all [...] unless of course you subscribe wholesale to an exotic religion and it's associated metaphysics
Right! Outside of Buddhism, practing Buddhist medtitation is no longer practicing Buddhist meditation and not related to Buddhist soteriology. A common thread I would assume among all the failed meditation anecdotes is that the persons involved did not fully embrace what it was they were doing but took the practice in isolation and appropriated it into an irrelevant (and irreverant context), and in doing so they did not rely on good instruction, they did not rely on good instructors, they did not rely on a good community, and so forth, and by neglecting all of these actually chose for themselves the most difficult path and then swiftly failed at it. The scriptures go to great and repetitive lengths to tell how rare and remarkable awakening actually is, so that should come as no surprise. >what on earth compelled you to do that?
billions of people are religious and/or spiritual, even secular people have their rites and beliefs in certain things. I am not sure how or where you live, but I can assure you almost all religions are "exotic" to a contemporary secular person whose only conventionally religious relatives are liable be buried soon. If what you mean to say is the default religion is or should be Christianity and all others are exotic, for those who understand the import of "god is dead" Christianity is even more oriental than the Indian and Chinese religions, and indeed, India, Burma, Sri Lanka, and Tibet were able to shrug off most of the Christian missionary activity which had been aimed at them
Spiritual development carries risks, but not trying to achieve any spiritual development is worse than taking the risk and failing.
9 months ago
Anonymous
I don't agree, you absolutely can end up in a worse place than before you started by attempting a spiritual practise. I know a lot of people who wish they had never tried.
9 months ago
Anonymous
all those "places" are transient and would end up happening eventually in some form or another. Giving up halfway is the worst thing you can do
t. went through hell and back, now everything is so much better I unironically can't imagine why I'd ever put this stuff off.
Buddhism and Catholicism are sister religions, they both teach about the dangers of the ego and how to transcend your earthly desires. The major difference being that in Buddhism you kill your ego, while in Catholicism you tame it.
the only people more ignorant than the posters here who focus on a single religion are those who attempt to compare them
9 months ago
Anonymous
You're very rude, sir.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Nah this guy is
and Catholicism are sister religions,
they are not. catholicism is based on devotion and buddhism is based on meditation
also buddhim's goal is only to end suffering, catholicism is... worshipping some israelite
and buddhism is not a failure while catholicism is failure like any devotional cult
and Catholicism are sister religions,
they are not. catholicism is based on devotion and buddhism is based on meditation
also buddhim's goal is only to end suffering, catholicism is... worshipping some israelite
and buddhism is not a failure while catholicism is failure like any devotional cult
9 months ago
Anonymous
Nah this guy is [...] but he is telling you the truth as well
No, meditation is inviting demons into your body for Catholics
sorry
https://truthstory.org/blog/four-dangers-eastern-meditation/
Funny thing. I just had my first "holy shit" experience meditating last week. My body was convulsing like I was possessed for 10-15 minutes but I was very happy, smiling, and laughing the whole time.
Just read the original religious texts, everything outside of that is inauthentic even if it's taught by a monk. Most meditative practices in contemporary South-East Asian Theravada traditions for example, are based on 'revivalism' that took place in the 19th century by a select few monks. You're epic Goenka 'vipassana' retreats where you do bodyscans are about as ahistorical as the mantra meditation they teach you in your local yoga class -and that's just one example.
You said it, but we should really emphasise that this is a very Theravada centric perspective. In Chan and Zen there is an unbroken succession from the Buddha with little revision. The same is true of Tibetan Buddhism and Vajrayana in general.
The sticking point is that a lot of westerners, for various reasons (British colonialism, fear of "mysticism", ignorance, etc.), immediately reject the Mahayana and are only ever interested in the Theravada. Almost all "secularised" or "semi-secularised" meditation instructions are Theravada based, even though it is the most obviously heavily revised part of Buddhism
>In Chan and Zen there is an unbroken succession from the Buddha with little revision. The same is true of Tibetan Buddhism and Vajrayana in general.
No, that's only their claim precisely to pass as buddhist.
Can't believe no one has mentioned Satipatthana Sutta yet, it's the text in the Pali Canon that explicitly deals with Meditation, specifically "insight meditation".
I don't know what to do anymore. Sit not-sitting, think not-thinking, sit with the determination to die (but don't reify that determination in any way, shape, or form), go beyond the will by already imitating a will-less state. Zen is therapy, Zen is not therapy. I can't just drink whiskey and jerk off anymore, there no gurus here, I know sitting in a dark room isn't therapy. This proliferation of methods, formulas, soteriologies, it's too much. What the frick do I DO?
Idk what's so complicated, just figure out the nature of empty nature (which still requires figuring out) and dependent origination and become blissful, I dont even meditate in a sitting position because it hurts my knees lol
I don't care about meditation. The only thing stopping me from committing suicide at the earliest possible opportunity is the fear of some kind of hell state after death. I haven't murdered and raped but abject fricking sorrow probably isn't gonna land me somewhere nice. There's something about the Buddhist narakas that feel so much more plausible and naturalistic than the typical Christian notion of hell. Disabuse me of this notion so I can leave in peace, buddhabros.
The Buddha said that the number of beings who will avoid a hell rebirth is like the dirt under is finger nail. Very small. Almost all of us are going there
Well, I can tell you my experience, if it might help. It was 5 years ago when I was 46. I had read all the philosophy I could get my hands on, but something felt missing, I wasn't getting anymore value from my studies. That is when I decided to go into the mountains with nothing but the full collection of Hunter x Hunter volumes and a laptop with wifi. I sat in one spot and would read the entirety of HxH while BTFOing shonenbabies on IQfy in between each volume. On the first day it took me 18 hours and I collapsed from exhaustion, but I persisted. I did this everyday, and two years later I could read all of Hunter x Hunter in under an hour, which just left me more time to BTFO shounenbabies on IQfy. When I finally came down from those mountains after 4 fruitful years, I was at long last a Hunterchad.
Sit down, chair or floor, rest your hands on your knees or your lap, and begin to pay attention to your breath. Don't try to control your breath, just observe it, let your thoughts come and go. If your mind wanders, bring your attention back to your breath. Same with any distraction.
There, that's basic proper meditation.
Meditation is wide subject and there's so many ways to do it, that you should be more specific what you're looking for. Any introduction to Buddhism should have instructions, but most likely to type of meditation I just told you earlier.
fricking lame
fricking awesome and big brained and cultured
sir you are a gentleman and a scholar ranjesh of the many braingains
no, shut the frick up
OP, THIS is the fake western bullshit; DON'T hear it
go for zen meditation.
TL;DR "just sit"
Follow that, do it earnestly, and it won't lead you astray
this video got me started: https://youtu.be/8T-Z1WoFXkk
https://antaiji.org/en/dharma/
this website and link will take you to the translated version of a zen monastery from japan
i practice in their tradition
all resources they provide are fricking IT
also, straight from the horses mouth (founder of japanese zen), there's this https://antaiji.org/en/classics/zazengi/,
this https://antaiji.org/en/classics/fukanzazengi/,
and this https://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/Dogen_Teachings/Shobogenzo/026zazenShin.pdf,
of which the latter was the most useful for me
good luck, hope you like it
Just to add you need a teacher to practise any kind of Zen. You might be able to start without a little but past a very basic level it's absolutely required. Dogen said you should get a teacher to teach you shikantaza in the first place
>breath meditation is not real or proper
The power of someone looking for exotic, I see. Eastern mysticism will give you super powers for sure.
And let me guess, if you take estrogen, you'll DEFINITELY become a woman in this cycle too, right...?
Doug's Dharma is good for this
He is what you'd call a western Buddhist since he promotes secular Buddhism but he also respects the literature of early Buddhism and cites it often
Spare yourself the chase OP, there is no meditation culture in America. Your pic shows a Japanese guy sitting in the Padmasan
>meditate for hundred years
>reach some spiritual and physical enlightement
>lose to some mutated animal in the end
that pretty much sums it up.
But he won.
He lost. Science won. Instead of wasting time on meditation study nuclear science and engineering.
All distractions. Meditate and you won't feel any need for that.
How is Mindfullness in plain emglish?
Find a Tibetan lama
Sit down and stop thinking.
Start with the Jeets. Mahasattipatthana sutta
the only one I've read on the matter is Mindfulness In Plain English by a venerated monk, Bhante Gunaratana. seems pretty legit, without westernism infused into it. it talks very lightly about Buddhism and misconceptions about it and Vipassana meditation, but it is mostly about how to meditate, what problems you are likely to run into, and how to work around them (or face them head on). I go back to it periodically. I've really only been seriously meditating for a year and some change though, so take it for what it's worth
There was book by a buddhist name that anons used to recommend.
frick outta here with that weebshit homosexual, this is a literature board
>inb4 IQfy is an anime board
picrel, now cope
Anime unites all boards. Return where you crawled out from.
A female "buddha" has no value whatsoever unless she stops LARPing and carries a child.
Cry about it subhuman, you will always be a slave to the anime
Aren't you a slave to anime if that's all you watch and you defend it no matter what?
I barely watch anime at all. I just know people who whine about it are homosexuals.
it literally began as an anime website
>Europe belongs to non-Europeans because it began with them
>America belongs to indians because it began with them
>Japan belongs to the Ainu because it began with them
>IQfy belongs to weebs because it began with them
Weebs are genuinely braindead. Watching anime is a common sign of a below average IQ.
>Europe belongs to non-Europeans because it began with them
This is not like the others. Nice try, though. Did you realise that your argument could be used against Europeans, so you freaked out and made up shit.
It is an anime website, idiot.
ah yes, my favourite anime board, IQfy.
r u fr dawg?
Avoid non-easterners, unless they are actually ordained monks.
The only other exception is people with graduate degrees in Buddhist studies.
With western sources on Buddhism generally your best bet is looking for people who have (1) spent time in the indigenous context especially living and studying with monks, (2) have command of an Asian language (Pali, Sanskrit, Tibetan, Chinese or Japanese), (3) published books explaining actual material in Buddhism and not just giving their personal opinion. You want to meet as much of the criteria as possible. A good example off the top of my head is Karl Brunnholzl. Avoid translators who are allergic to retaining any Sanskrit vocabulary, they are only moderately helpful at best.
That looks exactly like Jiri Prochazka
The Essentials of Buddhist Meditation by Shramana Zhiyi
Real Buddhist meditation manual
Post authentic books on meditation, morons?
the oxford handbook of meditation
Zen Training: Methods and Philosophy - Katsuki Sekida
https://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/SekidaTraining.pdf
fhank you for the recc
rob burbea - seeing that frees is alright for developing an existing basic (ie learned from headspace) meditation practice
skipped to a random page and the guy starts dunking on heidegger, pretty based
Post excerpt.
http://libgen.li/ads.php?md5=98e814ceda2050edaf5c7e6579f86ba1
The Mind Illuminated is a sober no-nonsense and very detailed guide. It's true that there are traditions such as Zen that put the emphasis on 'just sitting' but don't forget that in those cases there's a strong social net of support. For someone getting into into by themselves a detailed and structured guide offers more to hang on to, I think .
Also
The thing is that Buddhism is very much not a "sober no-nonsense" religion. I don't like these secularised methods that distill traditional teachings and attempt to strip them of their religious trappings. Those trappings exist for a reason, they are the structure that supports the practitioners at all their various levels. The social element is, unfortunately, essential. I know that TMI is not strictly "secular" but secularisation of Buddhism in general is never really going to work. That said, mindfulness is useful outside of a Buddhist context, but I think that TMI goes too far in aiming towards high levels of attainment which are not appropriate for most people
I mean, life isn't all about spiritual practise. I have to take care of worldly matters and my worldly life too. The situation in the west is such that most people who get involved in spiritual practise do so to avoid problems in their own life, which is not a solid basis for practise. Also, we should not denigrate lay people in general
> Giving up halfway is the worst thing you can do
You just said the worst thing you can do is not try at all, now you are saying the worst thing you can do is try and give up, which are totally different things. Also, you aren't at the end of the path yet, so you can't tell if you will fall again.
>I have to take care of worldly matters and my worldly life too
All those things exist for (subtle and indirect) personal, spiritual and interpersonal development though. The worst thing you can do is prioritize survival for the sake of survival that never actually does anything, and it really doesn't take that much time after putting away the fear of survival to understand some eternity spanning things which retroactively make the rest of your life's problems very manageable and easy to fit into the scope of a single course (I speak form personal experience but even before I got where I am I would struggle to fathom this idea, but the more gates you pass through the better literally everything is).
>Also, you aren't at the end of the path yet, so you can't tell if you will fall again.
Spiritual development, independent of just Nibbana is literally infinite because there's an infinite amount of wisdom to the universe rather than a finite one.
This already sounds like spiritual bypassing to me, be careful
Can't agree, everyone who goes into the spiritual has some problem or another and one major wisdom I learned during my development is "use intuition do something without thinking about something else", at which point I go through the mundane but just with much better wisdom and skills rather than needing to cling to spiritual narcissism. I don't know who said it, but there's a nice quote that goes along the lines of
>"man plows field, takes break, gets enlightened, goes back to plowing field"
Well, you have not attained enlightenment, but again, meditation is not suitable for everything. My teacher told me "Zen is not therapy", and most Buddhist teachers I know say that if you have depression (for example) you should treat it first before attempting any significant spiritual practise
>meditation is not suitable for everything
Meditation is not the only form of spiritual development, lets say vidya is as well. And I don't think you are going to treat whatever body/mental/emotional/spiritual, wherever you categorize depression, by avoiding truths. From my experience amongst friends the best cure for depression is just unimposing truth + honest empathic community.
> lets say vidya is as well
No it isn't
> And I don't think you are going to treat whatever body/mental/emotional/spiritual, wherever you categorize depression, by avoiding truths. From my experience amongst friends the best cure for depression is just unimposing truth + honest empathic community.
I mean, whatever mental health treatment is considered efficacious and offered by the person's healthcare, be it CBT, DBT, psychoanalysis, medication, etc. I know many ordained Zen teachers who are on anti-depressants
>The social element is, unfortunately, essential.
As a lay practitioner in the west I have no other choice than to go at it on my own. I think you're just going to end up confused and frustrated trying to deduce instructions for practice from original texts. Meditation isn't easy and TMI's straightforwardness and structure really help me to keep at it while studying philosophy alongside it. TMI nods toward the religious part of practice where appropriate and I appreciate that. I've only been practicing for a few months though so maybe I'll change my mind.
> As a lay practitioner in the west I have no other choice than to go at it on my own
Well, Zen for example is a tradition with by far the most representation in the west. In most western countries it's easy to find a high-quality Zen sangha and an ordained Zen teacher with a lineage stretching back to the Buddha
In fact, most forms of Buddhism have a pretty strong representation in the west, and even if you can't find one, there are a huge number of online teachers who offer their services, both free and paid
There are a bunch of options out there
Ok, I haven't earnestly considered it tbh. Have you done the same?
Yes, I practised under an ordained Zen teacher in a sangha in the UK for about 2 years. It was during COVID though
Breath meditation is real and proper, it's even used in the Zen that he loves
>I practised under an ordained Zen teacher in a sangha in the UK for about 2 years
How does it even work if you're a 9-5'er and not a monastic? You go over there and sit cross-legged and he hits you with a stick? I'm Belgian.
Are you still practicing in some form? Thread is too chaotic; can't make up which poster you are.
Usually there are one or two sessions a week, and you go and sit there for two 30-45 minute sessions, often with walking meditation (kisshin) in between. You usually will also maintain your own practise at home, usually with instructions from the teacher. In some places there may be interviews where you get a chance to talk to the teacher one on one in a formal setting, and there may also be a Dharma talk afterwards.
Hitting with a stick is not a thing. Even in Japan, you are only hit with a stick if you ask for it (which you ask for by doing gassho) in order to wake you up.
I'm not practising Zen anymore. Unfortunately I got a knee injury from too much sitting meditation and had to stop.
I don't live in Belgium but I live in Germany and there are many good Zen sanghas here, same in France, and also the UK.
People come across a new thing and jump on it and attach to it to the exclusion of all other things. Perhaps he has had success with "just sitting" meditation, so now he is sure it is the way and that breath meditation is not the way.
>I got a knee injury
How did that happen? What do you recommend? I do 'seiza' because it's condusive to breathing and all that, but I'm worried about the strain it may put on my knees. Do you blame your teacher for not preventing your injury?
I think my teacher is partly to blame for not having a good alternative for me and for convincing me to sit in pain, but really it's impossible to know why it happened. I can't really recommend anything, sitting for such long periods as a westerner used to a chair just comes with risks. Thankfully the injury isn't really really bad, but I don't want to make it worse, since I'm only 28 after all. Honestly there have been times where I feel disabled due to it, especially since my wife and I love to go hiking, and now we have to be much more careful when doing so
I know, I wonder why he had that reaction. Which makes me doubt he really meditates.
>Those trappings exist for a reason, they are the structure that supports the practitioners at all their various levels. The social element is, unfortunately, essential.
This is true but not helpful for us westerners. Following TMI is better than larping at being Burmese or Tibetan.
Unfortunately Buddhism is sectarian in a way that almost always coincides with national borders and ethnic identities.
"just sit" zen meditation is only found in the soto sect
rinzai, on the other hand, is the complete opposite, as its explained here
there's also the books by meido moore "The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice" and "Hidden Zen: Practices for Sudden Awakening and Embodied Realization"
everything boils down to control and restraining of breath focusing on the lower abdomen(tanden), its very different from just "following" the breath, at a first glance it even seems unnatural to "force" the breath this way, but nevertheless, it leads to samadhi,
Sekida explains everything on his "zen training", even how to practice with a koan
That’s false. Rinzai also practises shikantaza, just, they consider it to be a very advanced practise and it’s usually done after the koan curriculum is completed
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/monkeym.pdf
This if you want to try out Pure Land.
https://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#eachandeverybreath
Please don't. Every single meditationgay I have met has been insufferable, to such a degree that I looked up the term "spiritual narcissism" and found out that it is actually a widely seen phenomenon and is widely considered the major pitfall of meditation by actual buddhists (tenfold more true for westerners, who are already approaching meditation from a egoist-focused cultural background as well as from egoist motivations of self-improvement or similar wank).
Sitting still and perceiving your own thoughts and finding that endlessly interesting is peak homosexual. Self-monitoring will turn you into an even greater neurotic than you already are. Do it long enough, and you will internalize a belief that you are enlightened, wise, and see through the veil of ignorance, whereas everyone else doesn't - this internalized belief will manifest in your behavior and turn you into the ultra-peak homosexual.
I have known dozens of western meditationgays, without fail, they were gargantuan homosexuals. ESPECIALLY the ones seeking "authenticity".
Do not fall for it anon. Do not become a hyper-peak homosexual.
Giving insufferable people the clarity to attach warning labels to themselves is of great merit and benefit to others, who otherwise might not have known the true nature of said persons and been misled
I'd be inclined to agree with you if it weren't for the fact that I've had good acquaintances, who were good hangs and interesting conversation partners, gradually but surely turn into giga-homosexuals from meditation, before my very eyes.
It's not just a signpost for a homosexualry that is already there (though it can be), it can just as easily end up being the root cause or a potent fertilizer for homosexualry that did not exist beforehand to grow and blossom.
That's who they were all along though. If you can't be alone with your own thoughts without becoming a lousy person you are completely undisciplined and living a charade. Given the frequent jeremiads penned on this site about the state of contemporary westoids it should come as no surprise that so many people are toxic once unveiled, and if they are uninterested in doing anything about that, you might say they were better off playing pretend instead of meditating, but that has more to do with the company you keep and expedience than with any higher principle. Why do you think the Tibetans make those painting with ugly demons all over them as meditation aids? Why do the sutras tell you to imagine the body as blood and guts and pus, as a bloated corpse, as bloody bones, as dry bones, as dust? The narcissist is only accepting of the phenomena he enjoys, and is ignoring the rest.
>That's who they were all along though.
No, I don't believe in this essentialism. You become what you do. If what you do is constantly monitor your own thoughts and find them endlessly fascinating, you will turn narcissist. If you don't, you likely wont. No one is born a narcissist.
>monitor your own thoughts
this is the idea
>and find them endlessly fascinating
this is the snare all the literature is against
if you can't hack it then better luck next life, but it is worth trying
>If what you do is constantly monitor your own thoughts and find them endlessly fascinating
this is the opposite of what you're supposed to be doing in meditation
>i have had multiple people engage in self improvement and as they continue to improve and i stagnate i begin to despise them
Have you considered that the problem here is you?
This automatic assumption of projection, or the worst intentions imaginable is very tiresome (and not particularly buddhist, enlightened, or marked by equanimity - if you insist on trading boring jabs. Perhaps you should meditate some more?).
I don't stagnate, and the people I know who meditate most assuredly have not improved in any meaningful sense of the word because of it. They have become more self-absorbed and because of this self-absorption, a lot more insufferable. Compare that to sedentary people who take up regular exercise (I've taught several of my friends the fundamentals of lifting), who become more fun, energetic and engaged in the world, and it is a night and day difference. One is self-improvement (if you insist, though I detest the term) the other is masturbation.
I invite you to look up the term I used, "spiritual narcissism" - it is quite literally measurable and by now a fairly well-known phenomenon in the western world. And to reiterate, it is a phenomenon so common that almost every meditation instructor dedicates lengthy discourse to saying it is the greatest danger of meditation.
>this is the snare all the literature is against
Indeed it is, and the one that every practitioner I've known (more than a dozen) has fallen into. I think the reason why is that these western practitioners never actually have an in-person teacher, but hack it from half-read instruction manuals with all the default mentality that comes from a) being a westerner and b) explicitly trying out meditation to become a "better" ego (which usually means a more competitive ego).
I do not see why it is worth trying it all. There are endless other ways to achieve equanimity, or whatever it is you are trying to do - unless of course you subscribe wholesale to an exotic religion and it's associated metaphysics, in which case, what on earth compelled you to do that?
Lasch is 99% on point when it comes to western neo-spirituality. No one is aiming for ego-death. They are aiming for an ego with a new toolset that gives it a leg-up in competition.
>There are endless other ways to achieve equanimity, or whatever it is you are trying to do
Name 10. Equanimity and increased focus at the same time, with visible differences in patterns of behaviour
>No one is aiming for ego-death.
No tradition is aiming for ego death and the goal of meditation isn't ego death to begin with
shut the frick up you drooling homosexual fricking moron. I hate know-nothing c**ts trying to dunk on posters who are actually, completely, unequivocally right about what they're talking about because they're self-important know-nothing c**ts.
Hello my friend. You might enjoy this paper. It's a long one but vindicates every last one of your insights in an extremely crisp style.
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Drive-all-Blames-into-One%3A-Rhetorics-of-and-Refuge-Willis/95b4ee83e00d34a2d1e8d0aeb6a564fe302a8bab
(you can just google the paper title and it'll give you a direct .pdf link)
The Buddha told us to judge people by their words and actions. Therefore, you should ignore this guy. His speech is very wrong
Even the Buddha got frustrated with shitwits. Frick off
No, he didn't. Literally, an enlightened being is incapable of becoming frustrated. Any harsh words he gave were purely to teach others, not to express his frustration. He had completely eliminated the three poisons, so he had no hatred.
You sound easily angered. Maybe you should consider meditating for a few weeks
>tone policing narcissist homosexuals
have a nice day
Whatever meditation he's doing, it isn't working. This is one of the reasons why I decided to quit practising Soto Zen with my teacher, I was not well convinced that it actually led to a reduction in suffering, let alone awakening. I've met a huge number of people who have done vast amounts of high quality meditation with high quality teachers and yet still are quick to anger. Actually, the calmest people I know don't meditate at all.
We should not forget, that the kalama sutta outlines the guidelines on which we should decide between this path and that path. If the path does not lead to a reduction in suffering for others, we should not follow it.
Similarly, if the path does not lead to an improvement in their ethical behaviour, the kalama sutta tells us that we should not follow it. Any speech you give from anger is a direct proof of the inefficacy of whatever path you are following. Of course, I don't know much about your path, but if you claimed to be a skilled meditator or have some kind of insight, this behaviour would be a direct proof against that
>post about how I agree that western meditation routines are dogshit
>everyone thinks I was claiming to be a bodhisattva
you're all fricking morons
I'm not claiming that you were claiming to be anything. Since there is a lot in this thread about Buddhist meditation, I'm just giving the Buddhist reason why you should not be listened to
I recommended a great paper and called the wormy know-nothing c**t the wormy know-nothing c**t that he is. I hate seeing good posters getting dogpiled by gotcha homosexuals. A man has his limits. I don't meditate because it does nothing for me. I am pathless and will probably kill myself out of rage and spite and self-hatred
Well, you can see why most anons wouldn't want to be like you or agree with you
Shove it up your ass you fricking lizard Black person, I'm hot-blooded, so sue me. I've got a better intellectual grasp on Buddhism than anyone in this thread
An intellectual grasp on Buddhism is as useful as having an intellectual grasp on going to the gym. If you can't practise it, you can't really comment on it
My defilements are too dense and too ingrown, there's no hope for me. The least I can do is dunk on know-nothing c**ts.
I mean, that's categorically false. One of the ways that you could help yourself is by not "dunking on know-nothing c**ts." For example, you could develop your mindfulness, such that when you notice yourself come to anger, you could have time to decide not to perform wrong speech. I don't think there are any humans who don't have the capability to be aware of their own thoughts.
Angrily posting on IQfy is the last link in a very long chain of obscurities and defilements. I've read so many books on so many soteriological traditions from all over the world but I still depend on articulate IQfy posters to distill their central insights. I am too defective and afraid of myself/others. You with your apparent bodhisattva-like wisdom should be able to understand this
Well, I don't even meditate, in fact I abandoned Buddhism long ago, since I was just using it to escape pain and issues in my own life. I'm certainly not no longer a bodhisattva. However, I know that if we followed it properly we would reduce our suffering
Regardless, even if you doubt the lineage, there is no evidence of significant revisionism in these traditions like in the Theravada. They are still heavily based in the Mahayana sutras. For a while I was actually a Pure Land Buddhist, which really has nothing in it that isn't in the Three Pure Land sutras. Really, sticking to the Mahayana sutras, you can't go wrong
Forgive me. This has been just another reminder in a mile-long list of reminders that what I'm doing is simply not working. I wish you well
>I do not see why it is worth trying it all [...] unless of course you subscribe wholesale to an exotic religion and it's associated metaphysics
Right! Outside of Buddhism, practing Buddhist medtitation is no longer practicing Buddhist meditation and not related to Buddhist soteriology. A common thread I would assume among all the failed meditation anecdotes is that the persons involved did not fully embrace what it was they were doing but took the practice in isolation and appropriated it into an irrelevant (and irreverant context), and in doing so they did not rely on good instruction, they did not rely on good instructors, they did not rely on a good community, and so forth, and by neglecting all of these actually chose for themselves the most difficult path and then swiftly failed at it. The scriptures go to great and repetitive lengths to tell how rare and remarkable awakening actually is, so that should come as no surprise.
>what on earth compelled you to do that?
billions of people are religious and/or spiritual, even secular people have their rites and beliefs in certain things. I am not sure how or where you live, but I can assure you almost all religions are "exotic" to a contemporary secular person whose only conventionally religious relatives are liable be buried soon. If what you mean to say is the default religion is or should be Christianity and all others are exotic, for those who understand the import of "god is dead" Christianity is even more oriental than the Indian and Chinese religions, and indeed, India, Burma, Sri Lanka, and Tibet were able to shrug off most of the Christian missionary activity which had been aimed at them
Spiritual development carries risks, but not trying to achieve any spiritual development is worse than taking the risk and failing.
I don't agree, you absolutely can end up in a worse place than before you started by attempting a spiritual practise. I know a lot of people who wish they had never tried.
all those "places" are transient and would end up happening eventually in some form or another. Giving up halfway is the worst thing you can do
t. went through hell and back, now everything is so much better I unironically can't imagine why I'd ever put this stuff off.
All of humanity's problems, stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.
Should I meditate if I'm Catholic? I've always found meditation fascinating.
No, meditation is inviting demons into your body for Catholics
sorry
https://truthstory.org/blog/four-dangers-eastern-meditation/
Buddhism and Catholicism are sister religions, they both teach about the dangers of the ego and how to transcend your earthly desires. The major difference being that in Buddhism you kill your ego, while in Catholicism you tame it.
the only people more ignorant than the posters here who focus on a single religion are those who attempt to compare them
You're very rude, sir.
Nah this guy is
but he is telling you the truth as well
and Catholicism are sister religions,
they are not. catholicism is based on devotion and buddhism is based on meditation
also buddhim's goal is only to end suffering, catholicism is... worshipping some israelite
and buddhism is not a failure while catholicism is failure like any devotional cult
Nah, you're both moronic.
Funny thing. I just had my first "holy shit" experience meditating last week. My body was convulsing like I was possessed for 10-15 minutes but I was very happy, smiling, and laughing the whole time.
tell asmodeus i said hi
he told me to tell you he will bring you back
That was the name of the snake in Redwall, he was a good villain
Mediation is not necessarily religious practice, so go for it.
Yoga Sutras of Patanjali
precursor to Buddhism and contemporary of most Buddhist history.
Just 4 sutras like little letters.
The most IQfy philosophical book there is
>>
>precursor to Buddhism
how is he precursor when he wrote centuries after the buddha?
Early Buddhism: Ānāpānassatisutta https://suttacentral.net/mn118/en/sujato
Soto Zen: Fukanzazengi https://wwzc.org/dharma-text/fukanzazengi-how-everyone-can-sit
Just read the original religious texts, everything outside of that is inauthentic even if it's taught by a monk. Most meditative practices in contemporary South-East Asian Theravada traditions for example, are based on 'revivalism' that took place in the 19th century by a select few monks. You're epic Goenka 'vipassana' retreats where you do bodyscans are about as ahistorical as the mantra meditation they teach you in your local yoga class -and that's just one example.
You said it, but we should really emphasise that this is a very Theravada centric perspective. In Chan and Zen there is an unbroken succession from the Buddha with little revision. The same is true of Tibetan Buddhism and Vajrayana in general.
The sticking point is that a lot of westerners, for various reasons (British colonialism, fear of "mysticism", ignorance, etc.), immediately reject the Mahayana and are only ever interested in the Theravada. Almost all "secularised" or "semi-secularised" meditation instructions are Theravada based, even though it is the most obviously heavily revised part of Buddhism
>In Chan and Zen there is an unbroken succession from the Buddha with little revision. The same is true of Tibetan Buddhism and Vajrayana in general.
No, that's only their claim precisely to pass as buddhist.
Can't believe no one has mentioned Satipatthana Sutta yet, it's the text in the Pali Canon that explicitly deals with Meditation, specifically "insight meditation".
I don't know what to do anymore. Sit not-sitting, think not-thinking, sit with the determination to die (but don't reify that determination in any way, shape, or form), go beyond the will by already imitating a will-less state. Zen is therapy, Zen is not therapy. I can't just drink whiskey and jerk off anymore, there no gurus here, I know sitting in a dark room isn't therapy. This proliferation of methods, formulas, soteriologies, it's too much. What the frick do I DO?
Idk what's so complicated, just figure out the nature of empty nature (which still requires figuring out) and dependent origination and become blissful, I dont even meditate in a sitting position because it hurts my knees lol
I don't care about meditation. The only thing stopping me from committing suicide at the earliest possible opportunity is the fear of some kind of hell state after death. I haven't murdered and raped but abject fricking sorrow probably isn't gonna land me somewhere nice. There's something about the Buddhist narakas that feel so much more plausible and naturalistic than the typical Christian notion of hell. Disabuse me of this notion so I can leave in peace, buddhabros.
The Buddha said that the number of beings who will avoid a hell rebirth is like the dirt under is finger nail. Very small. Almost all of us are going there
Can't believe I forgot. That seals it. I absolve you of any bad karma you think this post may have merited you. Peace to all flesh
“Buddhism” didnt exist historically and it was made up wholecloth by a bunch of California israelites in the 1960’s
Well, I can tell you my experience, if it might help. It was 5 years ago when I was 46. I had read all the philosophy I could get my hands on, but something felt missing, I wasn't getting anymore value from my studies. That is when I decided to go into the mountains with nothing but the full collection of Hunter x Hunter volumes and a laptop with wifi. I sat in one spot and would read the entirety of HxH while BTFOing shonenbabies on IQfy in between each volume. On the first day it took me 18 hours and I collapsed from exhaustion, but I persisted. I did this everyday, and two years later I could read all of Hunter x Hunter in under an hour, which just left me more time to BTFO shounenbabies on IQfy. When I finally came down from those mountains after 4 fruitful years, I was at long last a Hunterchad.