Baiyue are not Chinese. We are proud Kra-Dai people. Chinese pigs get out of Southern China.
Baiyue are not Chinese. We are proud Kra-Dai people. Chinese pigs get out of Southern China.
Baiyue are not Chinese. We are proud Kra-Dai people. Chinese pigs get out of Southern China.
They fled from Han bull and settled in sea, now still getting raped by Han mutts taking over their countries.
No, only Northern Chinese are raped by people by inner Asia. Southern Chinese have almost no R,J,C and Q. The real situation is totally different from what you say. Han people killed each other every 100 years. Then, Baiyue people settled down in the empty places left by Han people.
>only Northern Chinese are raped by people by inner Asia.
Why do they have so many of these rape genes?
>Southern Chinese have almost no R,J,C and Q
Why are Southern Chinese so pure? They're 70% O. Steppe had little to no impact on them.
Because Chinese dynasties have been empires since Qin. People in the empire became weak, cowardly, and dishonest. They can easily be conquered by tribal warriors.
Chinese dynasties don't want to control and rule 90% of southern China. Southern China is full of mountains and forests. The cost of the rule is greater than the benefits.
Only Yue speaking populations have a heavy Kra-Dai substratum. Other Southern Han subgroups harbor a greater proportion of their ancestry from Yangtze related Chu and Yue cultures.
>Southern Chinese have almost no R,J,C and Q
Southern Han have very diverse uniparentals, most Q and C subclades within China are not the result of steppe introgression. Q-M120 spread with the royal Ji clan(N1a2a-F1101) during the bronze age. C2b-F1067 can be found in both Southern Han and minorities though many minorities harbor seperate sublcades.
>Steppe had little to no impact on them.
I suggest you look at aDNA studies, even with steppe ancestry modern day Northern Han are more southern shifted than their neolithic to iron age ancestors. The demographic impact of direct Northern Chinese migration to far southern China is often overstated.
>Southern Han have very diverse uniparentals
They're almost entirely O. It's the Northern Han with very, very diverse paternal lineages like C, J, R, and Q which aren't at all common in Southern Han.
>most Q and C subclades within China are not the result of steppe introgression.
Q? I guess. C? Absolutely steppe related.
>Q-M120 spread with the royal Ji clan
These Q guys weren't Han originally. They were Q nobility with O slaves. They just assimilated a lot earlier than later steppe groups like the Xiongnu and Mongolians.
>I suggest you look at aDNA studies, even with steppe ancestry modern day Northern Han are more southern shifted than their neolithic to iron age ancestors.
Yes this is true. Southern Han were often sent north due to various depopulations from war and admixed with steppe-admixed Northern Han.
>The demographic impact of direct Northern Chinese migration to far southern China is often overstated.
Han did mix with Baiyue, but not enough to replace them as the dominant component.
>Q? I guess. C? Absolutely steppe related.
It depends on subclades. Q definitely is more of a steppe lineage than C.
>Q definitely is more of a steppe lineage than C.
I doubt it. Q got assimilated in the Han earlier than C did. Read that study that detailed the Q elites ruling the O plebs.
Aren't the old Amur River (from like 19,000 years ago) samples C? Q was an ANE haplogroup, it's probably from further North (Siberia, maybe Mongolia).
>Han
I was thinking about earlier times. Neolithic, maybe even Mesolithic.
>Aren't the old Amur River (from like 19,000 years ago) samples C?
Is there any higher resolution than C-M217?
>Q was an ANE haplogroup, it's probably from further North (Siberia, maybe Mongolia).
Probably went ANE-Slab grave/Ulaanzuukh -Upper Yellow river-Sinitic speakers.
C-F1906
Zhaodong - 17,000 BCE
>F1067
Looks like this derivative of Northern C-L1373.
>They're almost entirely O. It's the Northern Han with very, very diverse paternal lineages like C, J, R, and Q which aren't at all common in Southern Han.
O can be divide into many different subclades, there are multiple studies done on Southern Han subgroups that show they have different proportions of various haplogroups. Austronesian related O-M119 is centered in Eastern coastal China while Austroasiatic O-M95 is quite common among Guangdong and Guangxi. I would reckon Northern C, J, R, non Q(xM120) and Siberian related N have a higher distrubution in northwestern China relative to other provinces.
>Q? I guess. C? Absolutely steppe related.
There is a clear difference between Northern C-L1373 and Southern C-F1067. C-F1067 can be found in multiple neolithic and historical sites. Southern minorities predominantly belong to C-F845.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/man/y-dna-haplogroups-of-the-23mofang-database-t4435-s90.html
>These Q guys weren't Han originally.
No shit, though they actually predate the historical era with the earliest sample from the Xiaowu site of the Yangshao culture. Q-M120's spread during the historical era was firmly the result of Chinese expansion.
>Southern Han were often sent north due to various depopulations from war and admixed with steppe-admixed Northern Han.
More specifically Yangtze related populations, though there were Southern barbarian Liao and Man tribes that were settled during the Northern-Southern dynasties. This back migration can even be seen in Mongol and Manchu uniparentals.
>Han did mix with Baiyue, but not enough to replace them as the dominant component.
We don't have any Baiyue samples but many of these Sinicized Yangtze lineages were the one's doing the colonizing. Just looking at autosomal results Inner Mongolians, Koreans and Manchus harbor a greater proportion of neolithic-iron age Northern Chinese ancestry than some modern Southern Han subgroups.
>O can be divide into many different subclades, there are multiple studies done on Southern Han subgroups that show they have different proportions of various haplogroups.
True but what I mean is that O is safely East Asian in origin and has been part of the Han since the beginning. While C, J, N, R, and Q have more to do with the steppe and Siberia.
>There is a clear difference between Northern C-L1373 and Southern C-F1067.
I'm mostly talking about C-L1373 which has a strong steppe Siberian correlation.
>Q-M120's spread during the historical era was firmly the result of Chinese expansion.
No argument from me. The Q1a1a carriers seem to have assimilated early on.
>More specifically Yangtze related populations, though there were Southern barbarian Liao and Man tribes that were settled during the Northern-Southern dynasties.
Wasn't immigration always occurring between the north and south? Seems to still occur today.
>This back migration can even be seen in Mongol and Manchu uniparentals.
In some ways the Southern Han and their relatives benefited more from assimilation.
>We don't have any Baiyue samples but many of these Sinicized Yangtze lineages were the one's doing the colonizing.
We need a more specific name for the "Sinicized Yangtze lineages". Weren't the indigenous Yangtze populations the Dongyi?
>Just looking at autosomal results Inner Mongolians, Koreans and Manchus harbor a greater proportion of neolithic-iron age Northern Chinese ancestry than some modern Southern Han subgroups.
Have you seen the modern Manchu results? They have more of the original Han ancestry than most modern Northern Chinese and only trace Tungusic ancestry from all the mixing that occurred.
>While C, J, N, R, and Q have more to do with the steppe and Siberia.
Southern C-F1067, N-CTS582 and N-M1819 were present in Northern China during the Neolithic though.
>I'm mostly talking about C-L1373 which has a strong steppe Siberian correlation.
Even R is more common than this specific subclade, for some reason Xianbei related people weren't more demographically sucessful.
>Wasn't immigration always occurring between the north and south? Seems to still occur today.
Yes, but for some reason the southernmost Southern Han subgroups insist they are pure representatives of historical Northern Chinese. This is not reflected in autosomal or uniparental DNA. Even using Lower Yellow Neolithic river as a proxy for Han ancestry is suspect as all present day minorities have this ancestry as well.
>We need a more specific name for the "Sinicized Yangtze lineages". Weren't the indigenous Yangtze populations the Dongyi?
Lower Yangtze were the Wu/Yue, Middle Yangtze were the Chu/Baipu and the Upper Yangtze were Shu/Ba. I have no idea how much autosomal DNA changed between Liangzhu and the historical Yue polity. 23mofang has some examples of Y-DNA that rapidly expanded during the historical era with upstream branches in the former lands of Chu and Yue that bottlenecked in present day Hakka and Min speakers for example.
>Have you seen the modern Manchu results? They have more of the original Han ancestry than most modern Northern Chinese and only trace Tungusic ancestry from all the mixing that occurred.
No suprise as the Jianzhou Jurchens included transfrontierman of Liaodong Han and Koreans extraction. Mass migration has homogenized the modern day Northern Han gene pool, a recent study has samples from the Neolithic(Dawenkou) to the Iron age(Wei-Jin) that have 0% Daic(proxy for Yangtze rice farmer) related admixture while even Kofun period migrants and some interior Chinese sites have at least 7%.
>Hakka
To elaborate while ultimately some of the uniparental lineages may of had a neolithic Northern Chinese origin a large proportion of extant subclades found amongs the Hakka were divided amongst a Chu/Yue(Yangtze), Hmong-Mien(She) and Kra-Dai origin.