Best books on King Arthur and Arthurian legends?
Is the mists of Avalon any good? or just feminist trash?
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Best books on King Arthur and Arthurian legends? Is the mists of Avalon any good? or just feminist trash?
It's good, but it's really not about Arthurian legends - it's a re-interpretation.
You're question is like the question: "Should I read Lord of the Rings to gain better understanding about western mythology? Or is it just academic trash?"
You know, different things where one is informed by the other.
yaeh makes sense
If you want something written in the 20th century, pick up Arthur Rex.
Otherwise, just read the actual medieval works.
Nothing else is really worth it.
quads checked
although Morte d'Arthur is Early Modern, not Medieval
Morte d'Arthur & Parzival should cover about 99% of everything ever written on the subject
Morte d'Arthur is medieval. Its written in the 1400s.
1470
you could argue that it was the last medieval work, but its attitude was of the next epoch for reasons I mentioned before, mainly that it was literature made for reading for yourself and not reading aloud or performing; the printing press was invented in 1440 so it was arguably formatted with regards to that... so I would argue that it's early modern
anything from before 1900
le morte d'arthur is very boring, and has zero style. I respect it for its historical impact, but do not buy it. Maybe I just haven't gotten to the stories that are actually interesting, but probably not.
Le Morte d'Arthur was written to be read so it obviously lacks the wit and humor of the medieval versions (which btw were made to be recited before a group of people... from memory... or even sung accompanied by lute)
recommend me some medieval poems sir. Arthurian or Charlemagnean (?) poems.
at that time there were no "poems" as we know them because there was no printing culture and few lyrical creations were written down (and even less were written down with music)
at that period songs were usually composed and recited by Minnesängers in Germany, troubadours / trouvères in France, and minstrels in England
for the first category you may check out
Wolfram von Eschenbach (late 12th, early 13th century) was a Bavarian Minnesänger who composed the Parzival
Walther von der Vogelweide (contemporary of von Eschenbach) was a great composer of love poetry; him and others from the Codex Manesse (which you should look up on Wikipedia) you can find translated in Seagrave's 1966 book "The songs of the Minnesingers"
Oswald von Wolkenstein (14th century) was born a few decades after the Codex Manasse was collated, and sang what he'd seen as he traveled around Europe
for the second category (which is a topic I did not delve into) the only book I can recommend is "Proensa: an Anthology of Troubadour Poetry" selected and translated by Paul Blackburn; it has songs from the 12th and 13th centuries (the same period as the Arthurian topic was part of daily life in all of Europe...)
regarding the third category, in which I have even less experience, you may look up the 1885 three volume work "Reliques of Ancient English Poetry" as from what I see the 3nd volume has some Arthurian poems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_of_Britain
everything between Chrétien de Troyes and Chaucer in that list, except Tristan, is a "medieval version" of Arthurian legend
if you are lazy like me (...) you can read pic related which in its first part offers context and in its second part details how the stereotypical themes that appear in each of the Arthurian writings... I haven't got to the third part yet... may the Lord bestow on me peaceful nights and industrious days~
>1885
1765 actually, the Project Gutenberg edition is from 1885
what are the medieval versions?
Fun fact, this feminist author (who was a lesbian with a girlfriend) was married to a man whom she helped to rape children. She even attempted to adopt a child that her husband wanted to frick. She molested her daughter throughout childhood. Her daughter further claims that her parents were supported in their molestation by others in the gay community, and that her parents were in fact ideologically committed to the view that everyone is queer by nature and that raping these children freed them from the oppressive heterosexual norms of society. Another male relative of hers raped one of his former boy-lovers' children, whom he considered his adopted "grandchildren". The most striking feature of this accusation of systematic child rape is that the victim elaborates at length on the ideological dimension of the homosexual rapists. The victim tells us that the belief that child rape is beneficial for children is endemic in the broader gay community. She writes:
>[Some of my supporters] do not have the willingness to accept the possibility that homosexuality might actually have the result of destroying children and even destroying the adults who insist on remaining in its thrall.
>Now for all well-meaning people who believe I am extrapolating from my experience to the wider gay community, I would like to explain why I believe this is so: From my experience in the gay community, the values in that community are very different: the assumption is that EVERYONE is gay and closeted, and early sexual experience will prevent gay children from being closeted, and that will make everyone happy.
>If you doubt me, research “age of consent” “Twinks,” “ageism” and the writings of the NUMEROUS authors on the Left who believe that early sexuality is somehow “beneficial” for children.
>Due to my long experience with the BSDM community (bondage/discipline, Sado-Masochism) it is my belief that homosexuality is a matter of IMPRINTING, in the same way that BDSM fantasies are. To the BDSM’er, continued practice of the fantasy is sexually exciting. To the gay person, naturally, the same. However, from what I have seen, neither one creates healing. My mother became a lesbian because she was raped by her father. My father was molested by a priest–and regarded it as being the only love he had ever experienced. There are a vanishingly few people who are exclusively gay, but far more who have relationships with people of BOTH genders, as my parents and other relatives did.
>What sets gay culture apart from straight culture is the belief that early sex is good and beneficial, and the sure knowledge (don’t think for a second that they DON’T know) that the only way to produce another homosexual is to provide a boy with sexual experiences BEFORE he can be “ruined” by attraction to a girl.
interesting topic to research as it can shed light not only on homosexuals but also on communism (which basically works along the same lines)
a good place to start would be to compare the characters in the feminist author's book to the canon (le morte d'arthur :P) to see how it is queered... this way a clear analytical recipe can be distilled to detect any queering in YA books or other fiction; the homosexuals obviously have the recipe down pat, so publishing it wouldn't harm much
I had the misfortune of falling in with an older gay man of this philosophical persuasion while I was in my late teens. He led me to believe that he would be a mentor to me, a sort of trusted older figure who would teach me about art. I recall thinking how cool it'd be to tell my female crush at the time that I had an older male mentor. He had a whole process for the molestation event, apparently it was a sort of speciality for him. He eventually got me extremely high then exposed himself to me. I remember how during the leadup I told him that I was uncomfortable, and he sort of paused from speaking and sat there with a disappointed manner, "I thought you were cooler than that." After he did it he asked if he could have permission to hug me (I was huddled in a corner at the time). He then told me that I was gay. We were on a couch that my mother gave me as a gift. Afterward I had a weird reaction where I went out and bought him a sweater. Never gave it to him but sort of stood outside his door, holding the sweater, at a loss. It took me quite some time to have normal relationships with women again. I had therapy which helped. Anyhow, I understand MeToo better now.
I don't find any part of this surprising. Everyone I knew growing up who had gay idiosyncrasies or tendencies inevitably turned out to have been molested early on. A dad gets arrested in a police sting for meeting up to have sex with children, his son was gay and the rumor had been that he was molested as a child, etc. Many anecdotes, hard to create a meaningful dialogue around because they will always, perpetually, categorically deny the concept of grooming and indoctrination but it's the most consistent and singularly relevant component of gay identity.
It's like gangs that 'jump-in' their new members to initiate them. 'It was done to us, so it must be done to you'.
btw if we are already talking pagans
You gays do know real Germanic pagans literally just executed homosexuals for being dirty and married at older ages than most other civilizations
The idea of historical pagans being drugged-up degenerates is pure fantasy, it only applies to modern groups which are just atheists playing dress-up
yes, today's pagans are godless pagans that have less to do with with Germanic, Roman, or Greek pagans than Roman Catholicism, Islam, or even (and may the Lord forgive me for saying this) the israelites
still, evidence shows that pagans of antiquity, except the Romans, were very exposed to change... any outside influence (or even minute differences of opinion inside the borders) could sweep an entire tribe / state / tribe / collection of city states into utter chaos for centuries... what we got from them, all the value, are from islets of peace that lasted decades at most
here lies the difference between a religion that believes in Truth and one that considers that there is no difference between Truth and Lies: the difference between man and animal.
Why the b***h brown
>The Sword and the Stone: 2/5, kiddie book
>The Queen of Air and Darkness: 3/5, this gets better, but ow the edge
>The Ill-Made Knight: 5/5, pure gold
>The Candle in the Wind: 4/5, pretty nice
>The Book of Merlyn: 3/5, not disappointong nor great, but all in all, acceptable
Veredict: As introduction to the Matter of Britain, this is probably the best book to start
The Sword in the Stone's individual book is better. Apparently it was changed for the compilation.
Knight of the Cart is a great introduction to arthurian legends, as are most other works by Chretien de Troyes. I wouldn't recommend Erec & Enide. It's somewhat amusing but not very interesting.
The Vulgate Cycle is really long, much longer than Malory's Morte d'Arthur, but it is a lot more fun to read most of the time. Le Morte d'Arthur is an abbreviated version of the Vulgate cycle (if you read Malory, you'll see that he's often writes "The french book tells us...", that's what he's referring to)
The Vulgate cycle, or Lancelot-Grail, contains my favourite version of the quest for the Holy Grail. Most arthurian legend can be read out of order without problem: medieval stories were meant to be recited and took a very long time, so the text always reminds you of what happened before so you don't get lost.
Are the W. W. Comfort translations of Chretien de Troyes any good?
I don't know, sorry. I've read them in French translations, since that's my native language.
However I would assume English translations of these specific works would be very good on average.
The Story of King Arthur and His Knights by Howard Pyle is fun
Can't find it 🙁
only in meme editions
Have you checked archive?
Is that the name of the publisher?
Go to the original
> Le Morte d'Arthur
Translated from French by Thomas Malory in the 15th Century AD aka the Late Middle Ages
> Sir Gawain and The Green Knight
Written in the Middle Ages
> Lancelot and Iseult
Middle ages
> Parceval
Middle ages
>Go to the original
>Malory
No offense to Malory's Morte d'Arthur but it's not part of "the original", because very little in it was invented by Malory.
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight is a late additions to the myth, but it's excellent, highly recommend.
I would recommend the medieval works ahead of Le Morte d'Arthur. Malory sometimes feels like a checklist of every character of note whereas reading Perceval and the Holy Grail or Ywain the Knight of the Lion are solid, self-contained stories that do not meander too much.
Crystal Cave series by Mary Stewart was pretty good