This is what a fresh Arch installation looks like.
I swear I could run a Linux shell with far fewer processes some years ago. What the frick happened?
Bloat
This is what a fresh Arch installation looks like.
I swear I could run a Linux shell with far fewer processes some years ago. What the frick happened?
systemd
how many of those systemd processes are absolutely essential?
do I really need a journal running all the time?
>do I really need a journal running all the time?
actually, yes
Indulge me. I'm genuinely curious about what systemd does aside from initializing the system.
As much as possible. It's the system daemon, and they integrate ever more into it.
Dunno, it just does
Systemd requires journald and udev, that's all, the rest it optional
Capture output from the processes it initialized and make it available to you with journald
in your pic:
>journald - collect and view all system logs
>userdb - abstract user/group lookup over multiple services
>udev - mount devices (usb and such) and handle hotplugging
>dbus - provide inter-process communication, mostly for desktop applications
>systemd - start/stop/restart services (including all of the above mentioned) and timers
udev doesn't handle volume mounting, only device setup (such as creating /dev nodes) and hotplug
>creating /dev nodes
yeah that's what I meant to say.
I suppose mounting usually means "mounting a filesystem" or "mounting your mom".
dbus is a totally separate package from systemd
God knows what they will take-over in new releases.
I've seen lately they start to manage network sockets opened by daemons.
the only non-optional part is journald
just because systemd can do a bunch of things, doesn't mean you're forced to use systemd for all of them
I've never tried, but couldn't you just write a service for sysklogd and use it instead of journald?
i haven't looked into it personally, but i've seen people say that you can effectively disable journald and use something else, but not remove it entirely
but i/they could be wrong, it does seem a bit odd to me that you wouldn't be able to disable it
but they usually switch this shit on by default in most popular distros and it's just a matter of time when systemd team will announce that other methods are "obsolete"
None, switch to Artix or Gentoo, OpenRC is king
I'm guessing a system without systemd is gonna be more optimised? I wanted to give Devuan a shot is it good? And no I dont have enough time for gentoo.
devuan is good yes
>200mb for that
xp won
The system will user more RAM when more RAM are available.
>its okay when Linux does it
>It's okay to use 250M idle but not 2GB
Yes.
only for caching
the answer is in your pic: systemd
>under 1% RAM consumption
>bloat
you guys are fricked in the head you know that, right?
Bloat is more than just RAM consumption, anon.
then what else is it?
Thread count, CPU time, I/O access, network access, disk usage.
And in general more clutter on htop.
>Thread count, CPU time, I/O access, network access, disk usage.
then if you really cared about it, then you would notice that almost all processes (except for one, namely htop) that are visible here
are in idle (or Sleep) state
If you took an even closer look, some of those processes have accumulated time. Just because they are sleeping now doesn't mean they will the next refresh (1.5 seconds).
Spikes are arguably worse than constant low overhead. Those are what contribute to smooth animations suddenly hitching.
yeah, total, lol
>Those are what contribute to smooth animations suddenly hitching.
depends on your scheduler and preemption model
now, you running arch (with stock kernel I presume) tells me that those processes don't contribute to spikes in animation or overall responsiveness issues whatsoever
The stock scheduler can an will run into unnecessary context switches on a given thread if there are too many processes.
It's fine on just a CLI, but if you're watching Youtube in the background, you may see some juggling of single-threaded processes.
Laptops are also very prone to downclocking if too much goes on in a split second. It will affect speed globally.
That's a laptop problem. They are designed to throttle to under-spec levels under even moderate load. It's a deliberate scam, as they don't want to advertise the real sustainable performance.
There's no underthrottling, just less overthrottling. There's a reason why CPU's advertise base frequencies well below the typical max. Even desktops face this to some degree, though not as extreme as a mobile Pentium rated at 1.1 GHz
>There's a reason why CPU's advertise base frequencies well below the typical max.
except they don't
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/128990/intel-pentium-silver-n5000-processor-4m-cache-up-to-2-70-ghz/specifications.html
it literally says
>up to 2.70 GHz
It literally says
>Processor Base Frequency 1.10 GHz
but it's marketed as 2.7
It's marketed as "up to" with very unambiguous wording.
The literal CPU's have the base clock written on them for Christ's sake (this is up to 3.9GHz)
There's no scam here aside from all the software bloat making these perform worse than they should.
>The literal CPU's have the base clock written on them for Christ's sake (this is up to 3.9GHz)
except the Pentium you linked doesn't as it's mobile and soldered only and the laptops running it are all advertised as 2.7 GHz
First link on Google (Amazon storepage).
apparently we get different google results
https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Quad-Core-Processor-Fingerprint-E406MA-DH21/dp/B07X3Y6V2C/
>amazon store page
plz frick off
>Noooo stop acknowledging that a thing exists
You're like the "secularists" that cry when they see a cross on advertisements for vacations in Greece.
oh ok moron, lets see your $50 200,000 lumen flashlight and 1000 decibel air horn capable of destroying the solar system
c'mon does it say 1.1 or 2.7 GHz right at the very top in huge ass font?
I'll give you a hint
>jpg
disgusting
There is more throttling going on than simple frequency. They insert artificial halting states etc so you can't see it's actually microsleeping throughout your workload despite the
>ghz number go big
frick you
you are actually a planned obsolesce henchman
a fricking brain dead consumer who probably is annoyed when their 10GB program cant accomplish a simple task BUT YOU FOSTER THIS KIND OF DEVELOPMENT WITH YOUR homosexual ASS BELIEFS
>its only some percent hurr
yes, and doing the same job something was doing 10years ago with way less resources
FRICKING moron. SAAS b***h
>a fricking brain dead consumer who probably is annoyed when their 10GB program
Black person chill
thats gaming though. you need 10gb storage, 8gb ram, and a blazing fast modern cpu to run simple sidescrollers now days becuse shit development is so incredibly rampant.
people who are ok with this are at best moronic homosexuals, and at worst in the pockets of epic games or unity whatever
>planned obsolesce
This is what defines Linux community these days.
Install Gentoo
>focusing on process count
more features and higher expectations
like you can run a system with less if you want still, you don't have to use systemd if you don't want to, either
>acpid
>udhcpc
bloat.
use procfs and sysfs
set your router to give you a permanent IP and drop dhcp
they're using a meg of ram /combined/
there's a point where you have to device if linux itself is too much and you'd be better serviced by an embedded rtos, and dropping services that use <1M ram is i would say qualifies
even using mdev over eudev isn't really worth the hassle for a desktop
like remember back in the day when you had to configure xorg.conf? well that's a thing again if you stick to mdev
that's just one example of how there's always tradeoff's when it comes to minimalism, as you get closer to nothing, little lost conveniences become bigger lost conveniences, like you can technically run a system without even mdev, but not even alpine recommends doing that
you vill own nossing and you vill be happy
>systemd
>systemd 6 more times
>systemd
>What the frick happened?
also
>systemd...waiting...
>systemd...waiting...
>systemd...waiting...
pathetic
Am gonna hijack this thread to ask my question.
Am getting an extremely cheap laptop for 1.44ghz intel potato and 2gb of ram. The guy who bought it was clueless and thought he could install fricking Win11 on it.
Am getting it purely for emacs, and cooding. What lightweight distro should I get? I was thinking of arch, actually, but if it takes up 200mb of ram right out of the bat, might have to reconsider that.
It wasn't too long ago that I was using a laptop with 2GB RAM. Ended up giving it to my Dad, and he still uses it. Ran Arch, but the distro doesn't matter much – the trick is to use ZRAM. After that, usability concerns disappear.
arch will be fine, but if you really want to squeeze it a bit more, perhaps try alpine
that's what i've been posting pictures of, i don't currently use it for anything beside this playground vm, but i've liked it so far, i assumed it would be pretty limited with regards to software support given it's a busybox/musl distro, but that hasn't been as big of a limitation as i though it might be
Sovl
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v
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happy now?
?t=43
Is /bin/login necessary? Can't it just run bash directly as root?
it's not a question of "can't", but rather "would you want to"
sure, you can just go straight to a root shell
though it's worth pointing out that in that example, init, login, and ash are all just busybox
Would never dispute there is more bloat, especially with udev+systemd windows 95 vulnerable by design shit. I freed myself of that crap long ago and never looked back.
MSDOS and FreeDOS doesn't have this problem.
>Bloated general purpose oriented distro with massive packages for "it should just work with everything if possible" experience
>Why it's bloated?
Are you from those gays thinking text mode installation = minimalism?
It's funny how Linux users do as little computing on their systems as possible and pride themselves with it as if it's some kind of achievement. A computer is meant to actually compute stuff, not use as little resources as possible at idle.
bait
thinking ram usage doesn't matter because you "have enough" is a midwit take
just allocating ram is one thing, but constantly manipulating tons of ram you don't need to also destroys performance, ram may seem fast, but from the cpu's perspective it really isn't
>It's funny how Westerners take pride in doing as little work as possible. Us Chinese work 49 hours for the glorious republic. No wonder we are so powerful!
Install Gentoo
use human readable format Black person
who forces you to use arch and systemd?
get artix, it uses Runit
Oh..god... t-that bloat. I... I think I'm going to be sick...
*pukes*
The only solution to this is a new Linux distro for users that actually give a frick about vast and unchecked resource waste.