Been listening to his lectures on Sci-Fi & Fantasy writing. Considering checking out his books, is he any good and if so any recommendations?
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Brandon Sanderson
IQfy has a hatred boner for him, not really a good place to ask. Completely serious when I say I'd ask the same question on reddit.
I'd still be curious of the why behind the hate boner
>basically YA
>all plot and no depth
>not a single subtext or theme to be found
>magic systems
>contrived worldbuilding
>has developed a formula for soullessly churning out one novel every few months
>tame, mormon approved writing
You might as well go on IQfy and ask why they hate marvelshit
>tame, mormon approved writing
Yeah, this had me the most sceptical
this anon nailed it. he's a "good" in that junk food, marvel movie, stranger things kinda way. he's "good" if you're a STEMlord and think meticulously creating a "hard magic" world based on different types of metals is more interesting than character development, quality dialogue, and a grasp of prose.
otherwise, his characters are basically 2D machines who exist to put his magic system and worldbuilding on display. the settings can be OK too, but it's mostly about the magic & plot & action.
also, I don't think you can really trust any author to be of quality who has a new book out every 6 months. His writing proves this.
There is an audience for that I guess. Some people just want to be entertained without being challenged.
Those people are called sheep and literally should not be allowed to discuss media because they can't even grasp what they are themselves mindlessly consuming. I know I am speaking like an elitist and I'm proud of it. We've seen what happens without elitism and gatekeeping.
peak /fitlit/ is actually jusy training flexibility so you can suck your own dick as hard as these blokes
>his characters are basically 2D machines to put his magic system and worldbuilding on display
So he is like Greg Egan but lame?
(checked)
As I understand it (I haven't read Sanderson but I have read several million words of webfic by a Sanderson fan) they put different objects on display. Egan wants you to look at this really cool math theorem while Sanderson means to show off the rules of his chess variant.
Says Sanderson:
>An author's ability to solve conflict with magic is directly proportional to how well the reader understands said magic.
A good rule for the game he plays. Come up with some cool mechanism. Describe it so clearly that you know not just what it does but what it doesn't. Invent a conflict to fit the mechanism. The conflict has to be solvable by the mechanism, but not easily. Solutions must rely on things the reader already knows, all fair play.
Then consider all the effects that spiral out from the mechanism. The reader must be able to ask "but what about the economy?" and get a ten-page answer.
Egan doesn't care about this at all. Conflict is an afterthought. Effects don't matter for their own sake. First he wants you to look at this cool method of constructing an object in interstellar space. It uses magnets! It naturally only works if the position lies on a line between two star systems. Slower-than-light communication makes it difficult to coordinate this construction. What role does it have in the story? Eh, here's some half-baked politicking to give me an excuse to talk about it. Here comes an innovation that allows the position to lie on a plane instead of a line! Does anyone else make use of this? Don't know, don't care.
Sanderson is holistic where Egan is fragmentary. And yet Egan gets to be more grounded because he needs less artifice to make it all fit. Real systems are far too complicated to think through all their effects and constraints, and so Sanderson has to simplify them to fit inside his head. Egan is allowed to handwave and suggest realistic complexity and texture.
You sure that fanfic wasn’t written better than Sanderson himself? Those descriptions of his system don’t sound half bad to read but fantasy is repetitive, so Egan still has the higher ceiling.
>You sure that fanfic wasn’t written better than Sanderson himself?
No clue, and I don't know how close Sanderson is to this.
The writer is Alexander Wales. He doesn't write Sanderson fanfic, to be clear (though some of his work is fanfic). But he does talk about lessons he takes from Sanderson.
His current project (This Used to be About Dungeons) is a perverse feat of worldbuilding. It's meandering slice of life about five twenty-somethings who go dungeoneering once a week in a classical D&D party, and the entire world is designed for that conceit to make sense.
One example, an elegant one. The party has a healer, a cleric. Why can clerics heal, isn't that kind of arbitrary? Answer: the handful of gods in this world represent abstract concepts like "infinity" and "categories". Our cleric is a follower of Garos, God of Symmetry. She has the power to make things more symmetrical. Therefore a cut on one arm can be healed by mirroring the other, or the entire arm can even be regrown—at the cost of making it identical to the other one, muscle mass and all. (Injuries to the center of the body can't be healed.)
The buck doesn't stop there, because worldbuilding has consequences. She has to care about symmetry, and this is reflected in her world view: in her internal monologue it's an overriding aesthetic judgment bordering on value judgment. Her backstory includes squabbles with her church about philosophy colliding with politics. She has mixed feelings about how these concepts have to be sanded down to become useful lessons in sermons. Another character grew up as a hermit and read all the holy books but runs into surprises when talking to actual priests for the first time. It's genuinely interesting and it all spirals out of a need to fit a square peg in a round hole.
Another, this one less elegant and blatantly mechanical. Dungeons have magical items. Dungeoneers should be able to sell them to earn money and so that the world can be suffused with magic. But they should also use items they looted themselves and have a personal connection to, because fighting with a rented magic sword is as lame as it is economically sensible. Solution: magic items have a random chance of binding to a dungeoneer and being unable to be used by anyone else.
This is very contrived. But it works. Firstly it stops readers from going "why don't they just...", and secondly it allows you to extrapolate basic economic properties. You can now start thinking about how item shops operate, and you can show off a high-level adventurer's vault of unsalable knick-knacks, and you can explain how mid-level adventurers naturally become more powerful without equating power to wealth.
It's full of this. It has time travel and group chats and teleportation and you can see the seams but it's hard to poke holes.
>Those descriptions of his system don’t sound half bad to read
I love it, but it's not what everyone wants out of literature and every idea can be botched.
Oof, Alexander Wales... I quite liked Worth the Candle up to a certain point, but he completely botched the ending and it exposed him for a somewhat narcissistic navel-gazer. While his prose is serviceable, and sometimes maybe even great, I feel like his success has made him very pretentious. Hints of themes and motifs barely go anywhere beyond the surface, it's all world-building and systems, which would be fine if he wasn't so pretentious.
Some other work that's arguably even less 'literary' but enjoyed equally if not more so is Mother of Learning. Despite the occasional errors in spelling and grammar (ESL), it's an honest work that owns up to its goal: entertainment.
S, knowing this... would you recommend me TUtbAD?
Worth the Candle had navel-gazing as an explicit goal, TUtbAD doesn't, so I figure you'll be alright. But I liked Worth the Candle all the way through, so who knows.
Doesn’t this just describe every fantasy novel though
it describes post WoT drivel
>all plot and no depth
>contrived worldbuilding
>not a single subtext or theme to b found
wow its just like real life!
stem broke in just over a century the butthole of the paradigm of living what writegays could not do for thousands of years
I went to a small writer's conference where the people there were creaming themselves over Brandon Sanderson. I guess the simple answer is I don't like Brandon Sanderson because I really don't like the people that read him.
I believe these sorts of reasonings are entirely valid. When we use intuition (unless you're part of the shitty club in which case it's called "prejudice") to avoid groups or things because of negative association we tend to be right. You don't really listen to a band if all you see listening to it and endlessly shilling it are idiot stoners. Because 98/100 if the time they're exaggerating and it's just okay. It's the same thing with books and genres.
Because Sanderson writes and IQfy doesn't.
Sad but true.
This is the answer
The guy has a career that most on /lit would kill for. And because the guy is so “normal” they can’t stand it.
most people envy the lives of capeshit directors, doesn't make their drivel any better
I don't think it's entirely fair to chock it up to professional jealousy. I think Sanderson's popularity is damning in itself. He's just another airport novelist like Grisham or Patterson. The only difference is, as someone else pointed out in this thread, with his ruminations over magic systems he's somehow tricked people into thinking he has intellectual or philosophical value.
I mean, frick, I want to be rich, but I don't want to get there by writing boilerplate fantasy novels for nerds. I'd rather be a broke pretentious artist than writing glorified YA.
Because every discussion among his fans boils down to muh worldbuilding and muh magic system. Might as well read tabletop rpg rule and sourcebooks at this point. And his fans are fricking everywhere. Doesn't help that the genre is fricking awful in general nowadays. I'd rather read Corum for the fourth time if I need a low effort fantasy injection.
They do read ttrpg books. Only 5e though.
Pioneered/spearheaded a bad style of fantasy.
Brandon Sanderson is, apart from Paulo Coelho and Ayn Rand, easily the most hated author on Reddit. It reached a point where Brandon himself reached out about it, which is hilarious. As to OPs question: don't bother.
What would be a better alternative?
If you want fantasy, I'd suggest Scott Lynch. The Lies of Locke Lamora is quite good. Whatever you do, don't read anything by Patrick Rothfuss. Fantasy only gets so good though, I've tried about 10 different authors and have never been blown away.
The issue with Sanderson is that he get carried away by what he wants to write while lacking the ability to write said thing. His combat scenes, which there are plenty of, mostly boil down to
>He did that, then he did that, but the other guy did that so he did that instead and then he did that, which looked really cool, and then he did that and that followed by that and then the other guy did that
Having that said, his combat is still better written than his romance. He has no clue how romance works, but I guess you can't expect more from a mormon.
>Whatever you do, don't read anything by Patrick Rothfuss
I still don't know how a self-insert fantasy got published
The description on Goodreads sounds awful enough
Hopefully someone appreciates the irony here.
>Fantasy only gets so good, though. I've tried 10 different authors and have never been blown away
So you've never read Gormenghast, anon?
Gene Wolfe is also a great writer. Its just that the setting of his books is not for everyone.
>Whatever you do, don't read anything by Patrick Rothfuss
Patrick Rothfuss' name of the wind and wise man's fear are the best books I've ever read.
I don’t even hate you anon, those books are very entertaining.
But you need to more, and be a little embarrassed by this post.
Gene Wolfe is great but hard to read. Glenn Cook is good but significantly easier to read.
Glen Cook [Instrumentalities]
Gene Wolfe [The Wizard Knight]
Robin Hobb [Realm of the Elderlings]
Steven Brust [Taltos series]
Kate Elliot [Crown of Stars]
Guy Gavriel Kay [Lions of Al-Rassan]
Why is paulo coelho hated?
Wtf that's nott what I asked. I asked why coelho is so damn loathed. Fricking board
Most people have only read The Alchemist due to recommendations, a novel too many people consider a 10/10, when in reality it borders on satire with its spiritual bullshit about absolutely nothing at all. I actually say this, thinking The Alchemist is a decent novel. I don't hate it, perhaps since it's so short, but his other novels are pure garbage though. He's a mom-author, and it doesn't stoop lower than that. He's the Lenny Kravitz of authors
I read pilgrimage, veronica must due and the devil and miss prym in high school. None of them felt particularly targetted at women to me. Certainly more philosophical than hardy boys or nancy drew that I used to read back rhen
>It reached a point where Brandon himself reached out about it
Got a link? I'd love to see this shit.
i don't know if this is what anon is referring to but there's a decent subreddit called bookscirclejerk which rocks his shit on a regular basis. once someone tagged him and he responded. it wasn't really a based response by any means but he acknowledged the circlejerk's existence.
there's a lot of people who hate him on Reddit as well. someone in bookscirclejerk tagged him in a hate post and he actually responded lol.
All of these are around 7/10:
Mistborn 1: The Final Empire
Mistborn 4: Alloy of Law
Mistborn 5: Shadows of Self
Mistborn 6: Bands of Mourning
Stormlight Archive 1: The Way of Kings
Stormlight Archive 2: Word of Radiance
Silence in the Forests of Hell
Warbreaker
The rest of his work are around 5/10, nothing from him seems particularly bad but it feels bland and cheesy. Start with Silence in the Forests of Hell, it's a short story.
I read the way of kings, really really good. One of the best fantasy books I've ever read.
Everything after that in the series was dog shit, read the second one and it was so bad. Barely finished it and dropped the series.
this is accurate, it's very shallow.
I liked Mistborn 1, especially the start of it.
Although the wheels start to come off as the heist elements are all eliminated when a certain character decides to do something moronic
Tried Mistborn 2, but it was shit.
Planning on reading The Way of Kings tho as people say that Stormlight Archive is his best work.
the way of kings was good enough, but the rest of the series is dogshit. It's incredibly disappointing
I've only really enjoyed three of his books. The Way of King, Words of Radiance, and Warbreaker. It's really disappointing when you enjoy the first few books of a series and despise the rest. I'm done with Brandon Sanderson.
Fromsoft should have gotten him for Elden Ring instead of GRRM
Was Elden Ring too dark for you? I'm sorry.
The McDonalds of genre fiction, except the target audience seems to think they're eating at a michelin star restaurant. Really the main selling point is that you know what you're going to get when you pick up one of his books.
He's a lame writer. Too much flowers and feminism.
>Too much flowers and feminism.
this, that bish in the way of kings and the second book completely ruined the series.
>Sanderson
Sanderson's books have a pretty large focus on religion and politics.
So far I finished Mistborn first trilogy and now reading Elantris. He isn't bad at all and my personal favorite author for "books that are interesting and deliver", but that's about it.
Sure, his characters are interesting, the story development is never predictable, and there are plot twists over plot twists. But the biggest reason why so many people most likely think he is one of the best authors is simply because he always does his story justice.
His books are huge and you can be certain that there is no rushing through the story and every character gets the time they deserve.
But so far (I will read all of his books, so this should show you that I think his books are worth my time) I would call him rather a fiction author than a fantasy author. Without spoiling anything I can already tell you that his amount of "fantasy" in Mistborn is very similar to TLotR. I'm looking forward how his books evolve, but so far I would rather call him mediocre with the determination and willpower to make the best out of his averageness.
To summarize Sanderson's books: They are the product of someone who isn't really a game changer, but someone who has the willpower and determination to make the best out of his average quality.
I would say his books are more hyped through his name than through quality, especially considering that in Mistborn I would say 10 % of his books are insane god tier 10/10 quality, while around 70 % is pretty mediocre and 20 % are straight up either boring or something which feels rather forced and more like "being in there because he had this on his check list" than being in there because of the story or world building.
> Sanderson's books have a pretty large focus on religion and politics.
What a load of bullshit.
Is this a copypasta? I can't take it seriously.
He will never rule supreme
Could you learn anything from his writing? Any strengths of his that you could take from?
Work ethic. That's pretty much it. He's harnessed the power of being able to write consistently at a fairly quick speed all year long.
According to his BYU lectures, he tends to write 8 hours a day in two 4 hour blocks
He's the quintessential embodiment of the modern fantasy hack author, he's books are too long and repetitive, turns 'magic' into anime overexplained super powers and anything that isn't a dry explanation of sucks major ass. His 'humor' in WoR was enough to filter me from ever reading another Sanderson book, its unironically worse the capeshit
Pretty sure people just read Stormlight Archive to read the fights in which Kaladin goes full anime.
Yeah. It's basically anime, but written by someone who's decent at the craft. Actual anime scripts are often written by otakus (Japanese subhumans) and then on top of that translated by ESL otakus (...) and, of course, constrained by what can be animated on a shoestring budget.
So Sanderson really lets the "anime" narrative sensibilities fly.
I'm surprised reddit/goodreads/fantasy nerds love him even though he's a Mormon who on his reddit account says he believes engaging in homosexual acts is sinful
most reddit nerds and fantasy nerds in general are straight dudes who have zero investment in stepping between a mormon and his homophobic beliefs.
i also feel like the people who buy Sando's books are willing just to believe he's changed. both Sando and his readers think they're more progressive than they are. dude clearly just got called out early enough in his career that he learned to adapt and pay lip service to keep those sweet sweet gold pieces coming in.
Redditors still love Lovecraft even though he was exceptionally racist. The average person just doesn't care about this kinda thing, and the people who do are usually terminally online social media scrollers who aren't reading anyways
He said in a recent Leddit AMA that he wanted his church to be filled with homos from now on. Maybe he had to say that to get a movie deal.
100%. he got called out pretty early in his career, before the culture wars were bad. he was smart enough to try to adapt and put like... one gay dude and one bisexual chick in his stories to adapt and go under the radar about his mormon beliefs.
i don't really give a shit either way (get your coin, brando), but i do wonder if it will catch up with him eventually.
he also made all of stormlight asians larping as euros so they won't have to race bend too hard
Start with Warbreaker. If you dig it, give the Stormlight Archive a try. I could never get into Mistborn so ymmv with that series.
I like Sanderson but warbreaker was fricking awful, I could not stand any of the characters.
It's a safe author if you like grand wide-reaching worldbuilding and magic system more than deep character development, which I do. I'd say you'd enjoy his works more if you're into DnD adventures
I like how his magic systems are somewhat loosely based off gnostic/neoplatonic mythology, and the underlying plot that spans seemingly unrelated stories.
His dialogues flow well enough, and the plot doesn't get boring easily for me. There are no manifest "slogs"
I don't consider myself able to judge someone else's writing, but in quite a few cases I found action scenes "mechanical" and bare, for lack of a better description
I suggest you get one of his shorter standalone books, like The Emperor's Soul, or Warbreaker, and judge for yourself if you like his writing style
No, he's not. I've read all the mistborn books and 2 1/2 of the stormlight books. His worlds are shit. His focus on magic is juvenile.
He's a comic book author that realized that he can't fricking draw.
His point about magic needing to have hard rules misses the fricking point of magic. Magic isn't meant to "solve" problems in a story, it creates them, or sets the stage for a conflict.
When I read the Dragonlance books, I wasn't taken in by the reagents that Raistlin used, or the metaphysics of Goldmoon's cleric powers. I was taken in by the curse that Raistlin was left with by a lich. There wasn't any level requirement to it, no stat block detailing saves and aoe and required components in gold. The lich simply cursed him with terrible, hourglass eyes. They saw the "future" of everything, that is to say, they only saw death and decay, with the elves being the one exception (due to their longevity). Even then, he saw them in their autumn years, and the complete lack of beauty in his world, coupled with his already jaded take on people, began to twist him from the inside out.
That's compelling magic. I will eat that shit by the boatload. Not this HUEHAH I HAD A PURPLE SCARF CHECKMATE gayS!
the irony is that american comic author don't need to draw. but yeah reading his power system and its just super powers with anime explanations of what they can or cant do. Its just superpowers
the first mistborn trilogy is great
the second mistborn trilogy is a matter of taste, it's more like James Bond than fantasy
"way of kings" and the other books are amazing
he does characters really well, as well as worldbuilding and plot
He's the most fedora tipping religious man I've ever seen. it's really weird.
I hate him because he is momon
>I hate him because he is momon
No freakin way.