The most ridiculous thing about Gorbachev is that no one at any point in time tried to take him out of his position as a country leader in any way except for the August coup which was too little too late.
>Prevented a bloody revolution and millions dead by wilfully converting Russia into modern capitalism >"Le bad"
I swear hispoltards are some of the most braindead beings in existence on here.
Sad to see Russia doing it's inevitable Russia thing and putting an autocrat in power with the first free election
I never said he was bad. What I meant is that he was universally disliked both by the conservatives who saw him as the traitor of socialism and the reformers for not being liberal enough, and even the common people weren't pleased with his handling of the economy which caused widespread food shortages. But he remained in power nevertheless while Khrushchev was ousted for less.
>Loved by his enemies.
His enemies literally won the next election but of course you're a brainlet Westerner who doesn't know shit about Russian history
How could it not be his fault when it was his reforms?
>How could it not be his fault when it was his reforms?
It wasn't the reforms, it was several decades of bad Soviet economic policy that culminated in this crisis. Even before his reforms the situation in the Soviet Union was pretty bad,
2 months ago
Anonymous
>Even before his reforms the situation in the Soviet Union was pretty bad
It was and Gorbachev exacerbated it.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>I'm a brainiet who doesn't understand how reforms work
Please leave this board
2 months ago
Anonymous
>you're wrong because I said so
Sure thing, buddy.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>Le reform has to immediately make everything better like muh hecking magic wand!!!
Even fricking China realized planned economies are bullshit, yet for some reason I don't see you seething about them.
2 months ago
Anonymous
how come China managed to become an industrial powerhouse during its transition from communism to its capitalism with chinese characteristics and at the same time Russia fell into anarchy where kids were sucking dick for bread until another strongman appeared to stop their subhumanity?
Thats kinda weird to me bro
2 months ago
Anonymous
>Russia fell into anarchy where kids were sucking dick for bread until another strongman appeared to stop
Kek, you aren't ready for this answer because you unironically think a stop was put to anything
It doesn't have to, specifically if the reforms are moronic. Gorbachev's economical reforms were half-baked and caused even greater deficit of goods than before, it's a well-known fact.
>It doesn't have to
In this case it does, because you can't do reforms like this without a noticeable impact, unless you do them very slowly which would have been impossible in the political context of the Soviet Union. See
[...] >Prevented a bloody revolution and millions dead by wilfully converting Russia into modern capitalism >"Le bad"
I swear hispoltards are some of the most braindead beings in existence on here.
Sad to see Russia doing it's inevitable Russia thing and putting an autocrat in power with the first free election
2 months ago
Anonymous
>unless you do them very slowly
That's actually what Gorbachev tried to do. His reforms didn't change the whole system because he actually never intended to switch the country from plan to market, only introduce some elements of the market. And it promptly backfired because the reforms created a whole lot of loopholes in the already fragile Soviet economy for people to siphon money out of the state and not give anything back.
2 months ago
Anonymous
A lot of cheap labor and the low level of industrialisation. The USSR had none of it.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>the USSR didnt have cheap labour >apparently because the USSR didnt have a low level of industrialization this meant it couldnt become an industrial powerhouse because uhh... HAVING TOO MANY FACTORIES IS BAD FOR PRODUCTION
are you trolling
2 months ago
Anonymous
The Soviet factories were dogshit, their equipment usually was outdated and overused, the working culture was very low, all of which caused them to produce expensive (pay attention! Unlike in China, the Soviets had a very high production cost) junk that no one ever would buy. That's why after the fall of the Union many factories were closed or sold for a dime - they were outright unprofitable and the cost of modernisation was way too high.
2 months ago
Anonymous
or maybe just maybe all that equipment which could have been repurposed got scrapped for short term gain by some morons and nobody stopped them
2 months ago
Anonymous
I don't think German machines from the 40s could be repurposed for anything at that point.
2 months ago
Anonymous
It doesn't have to, specifically if the reforms are moronic. Gorbachev's economical reforms were half-baked and caused even greater deficit of goods than before, it's a well-known fact.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>His enemies literally won the next election but of course you're a brainlet Westerner who doesn't know shit about Russian history
I mean the enemies of Russia, the enemies of Russia loved that moron.
Yeltsin is the same, people who hate Russia loved him, people in Russia hate him.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>people in Russia hate him
Nice historical revisionism Anon, you really showed'em
>Hated by the people he ruled over
Russians are moronic and WANT a Stalin 2.0 to exterminate tens of millions of them, they don't actually want a prosperous peaceful country, they need a leader that forces them to live in gulag shacks and build tanks
The most ridiculous thing about Gorbachev is that no one at any point in time tried to take him out of his position as a country leader in any way except for the August coup which was too little too late.
Destroyed his country and brought about 2 decades of krokadil and child prostitution
>Prevented a bloody revolution and millions dead by wilfully converting Russia into modern capitalism
>"Le bad"
I swear hispoltards are some of the most braindead beings in existence on here.
Sad to see Russia doing it's inevitable Russia thing and putting an autocrat in power with the first free election
I never said he was bad. What I meant is that he was universally disliked both by the conservatives who saw him as the traitor of socialism and the reformers for not being liberal enough, and even the common people weren't pleased with his handling of the economy which caused widespread food shortages. But he remained in power nevertheless while Khrushchev was ousted for less.
>his handling of the economy which caused widespread food shortages.
Once again you brainlet, not his fault.
How could it not be his fault when it was his reforms?
> Loved by his enemies.
> Hated by the people he ruled over
Wow, what a great leader.
>Loved by his enemies.
His enemies literally won the next election but of course you're a brainlet Westerner who doesn't know shit about Russian history
>How could it not be his fault when it was his reforms?
It wasn't the reforms, it was several decades of bad Soviet economic policy that culminated in this crisis. Even before his reforms the situation in the Soviet Union was pretty bad,
>Even before his reforms the situation in the Soviet Union was pretty bad
It was and Gorbachev exacerbated it.
>I'm a brainiet who doesn't understand how reforms work
Please leave this board
>you're wrong because I said so
Sure thing, buddy.
>Le reform has to immediately make everything better like muh hecking magic wand!!!
Even fricking China realized planned economies are bullshit, yet for some reason I don't see you seething about them.
how come China managed to become an industrial powerhouse during its transition from communism to its capitalism with chinese characteristics and at the same time Russia fell into anarchy where kids were sucking dick for bread until another strongman appeared to stop their subhumanity?
Thats kinda weird to me bro
>Russia fell into anarchy where kids were sucking dick for bread until another strongman appeared to stop
Kek, you aren't ready for this answer because you unironically think a stop was put to anything
>It doesn't have to
In this case it does, because you can't do reforms like this without a noticeable impact, unless you do them very slowly which would have been impossible in the political context of the Soviet Union. See
>unless you do them very slowly
That's actually what Gorbachev tried to do. His reforms didn't change the whole system because he actually never intended to switch the country from plan to market, only introduce some elements of the market. And it promptly backfired because the reforms created a whole lot of loopholes in the already fragile Soviet economy for people to siphon money out of the state and not give anything back.
A lot of cheap labor and the low level of industrialisation. The USSR had none of it.
>the USSR didnt have cheap labour
>apparently because the USSR didnt have a low level of industrialization this meant it couldnt become an industrial powerhouse because uhh... HAVING TOO MANY FACTORIES IS BAD FOR PRODUCTION
are you trolling
The Soviet factories were dogshit, their equipment usually was outdated and overused, the working culture was very low, all of which caused them to produce expensive (pay attention! Unlike in China, the Soviets had a very high production cost) junk that no one ever would buy. That's why after the fall of the Union many factories were closed or sold for a dime - they were outright unprofitable and the cost of modernisation was way too high.
or maybe just maybe all that equipment which could have been repurposed got scrapped for short term gain by some morons and nobody stopped them
I don't think German machines from the 40s could be repurposed for anything at that point.
It doesn't have to, specifically if the reforms are moronic. Gorbachev's economical reforms were half-baked and caused even greater deficit of goods than before, it's a well-known fact.
>His enemies literally won the next election but of course you're a brainlet Westerner who doesn't know shit about Russian history
I mean the enemies of Russia, the enemies of Russia loved that moron.
Yeltsin is the same, people who hate Russia loved him, people in Russia hate him.
>people in Russia hate him
Nice historical revisionism Anon, you really showed'em
Be the also just won the election by coincidence
Kys
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semibankirschina
>Bankers controlled everything
>Now everything is different, because... Bankers control everything, except they're Putin aligned
Wow you really showed'em
>Hated by the people he ruled over
Russians are moronic and WANT a Stalin 2.0 to exterminate tens of millions of them, they don't actually want a prosperous peaceful country, they need a leader that forces them to live in gulag shacks and build tanks
russians did that to themselves
>Who would win in a fight
>The socialist empire that defeated Nazi Germany, or
>cardboard-flavored pizza produced by a fast food restaurant chain
The most ridiculous thing about Gorbachev is that no one at any point in time tried to take him out of his position as a country leader in any way except for the August coup which was too little too late.
its moronic russian serfs what do you expect, actual responsibility from them?
He saw what happened in romania. It would be stupid to wait
Romania was also in much better shape than Russia throughout the 90s
Pizza hut was good in the 90s though.
tried to save his country but was betrayed by communist morons
>Destroyed it for Pizza Hut
If it was Domino's, i would understand, but really, Gorba?
for me its pizza express
Dominoes is the BK of pizza. Maybe papa jayjays, but never dominoes.
Genuine question, what was he supposed to do?
>the second most powerful empire in the world destroyed by goyslop
lmfaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
*krokodils*
Oof, you gotta love it