You're not becoming computers. You're using them. They are used to compute. Your biochemical brain isn't as good as them at computing so you have to learn how it's done to properly command computers.
math is work out for brain
more math, brain more fit
fit brain, better problem solving skills and logic
better problem solving skills and logic, better programmer
I studied philosophy for a long time before coming back to programming and I feel like it helped me a lot. After all, it's all just premises and conclusions when you reduce it to its components.
different anon. Philosophy taught my brain to better imagine abstract systems in my head. Math taught me how to best implement the components of that abstract system. Philosophy with a good dose of meditation trains the brain in turmoil to find the eye of the storm when the ideas come too quick.
People think philosophers are like artists or something.
Theyre literarily the farthest thing from that. Its a sequencial logical subject. They autistically think about the meaning of meaning.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No, I know they are logical, I just don't think it can replace math for programmatic problem solving. That said, it requires a good enough IQ and intellectual rigor. I don't doubt that people who naturally grasp philosophy also naturally grasp programming, but I doubt the crossover from one to the other
2 years ago
Anonymous
Well there is a subset of philosophy that only deals with logic and its pretty close to discrete math i think.
Its like 3d artists who are better if they know how to draw you know. Like you dont need to know how to draw to be a 3d modeler but it helps.
And philosophy is not something the status quo wants everyone to learn because frankly they dont want everyone questioning everything all the time. Also it can be the biggest time sink of them all.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah, 100% plan to study philosophy and linguistics when I am older. Old fart subjects if you aren't careful but interesting and in the case of philosophy, enlightening
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ive tried to look into philosophy before and i think ill pass.
They got a saying in lit. Start with the greeks. That is start with the greeks and read every book written by every major philosopher since then. That is just so fricking boring.
This. You can tell the difference when it's done by someone who can explain shit in simple terms vs. autistic mathgays whose capacity for theory of mind is near zero and assume everything they think it's obvious to everyone else.
>They don't exists
Thank you for proving my point. You apparently have no idea how things really are. I'm not saying they don't exist, but they are extremely rare.
Good form in coding comes with experience. Being insufferably slow assuming that it is the other person's job to not skip a single unneeded step on a process comes with being a moron
Vectors and calculus (mostly vectors) are really handy for doing things that involve lengths, distance and direction. I wouldn't say its necessary but knowing these has helped me solve somewhat challenging problems
At the very least you need to be comfortable with basic algebra in order to do things like calculate the runtime of an algorithm (or even just for everyday tasks, like UI layout). Learning Calc I/II is a good way to be certain that you're good at algebra.
Proofs correspond well to programming, e.g. proof by induction is often used to introduce recursion.
Strong linear algebra and decent calculus skills are essential for computer graphics.
Calculus I and II in burgerstan cover differentiation and integration of functions of one variable. Calculus III is multivariate calculus. Most CS programs don't require calc III in the US, but if it doesn't, it's probably not very good. Mine didn't, but I took it anyway, because it felt wrong not to.
Game dev and graphics programming is very math heavy.
Im assuming most people here are mathlets which is why is funny when they make the opengl triangle and think the can make a game from scratch.
Well i see that less now. Maybe g learnt its lesson.
How often is anything you learn in Calculus actually used in writing code. Is linear algebra packed-in with Calc courses or is it a separate thing? The branch of math that is most applicable to CS would I guess be Number Theory but I think that's mostly taught as an elective for upperclassmen in most colleges.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The most applicable math for programming is discrete math.
With discrete math you can do path finding on maps, sorting data and just algorithms in general.
Imagine if you had to program sonething from scratch and you couldnt import anything and make an app.
Youd be fricked.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Trig is also a must for any sort of visual programming.
All those photo filters app you see either use trig or some type of calculus.
2 years ago
Anonymous
What's the most efficient algorithm for calculating a prime :^)
Trig is also a must for any sort of visual programming.
All those photo filters app you see either use trig or some type of calculus.
Ray-tracing gets its name from literally "tracing rays emanating from a fixed point towards a circle" or something like that. Trig is based because it has always been concerned with practical, calculable results.
I'm not American (or Australian) actually, but I figured most people would know what I meant.
As I understand it,
Calc I: Basic single-variable calculus
Calc II: Still single-variable but more in-depth- various integration techniques, taylor series, etc
How often is anything you learn in Calculus actually used in writing code. Is linear algebra packed-in with Calc courses or is it a separate thing? The branch of math that is most applicable to CS would I guess be Number Theory but I think that's mostly taught as an elective for upperclassmen in most colleges.
You'll rarely use calculus in your work unless you go into gamedev, but having to learn it forces you to really git gud at precalc (algebra, trig) which is more likely to be relevant.
In general, I'd say that you need to learn one "tier" of maths higher than what you plan to actually use. Learn tier n and you'll eventually forget the details of that tier if you don't actively use it, but you'll probably remember tier n-1 well.
I'd say any math you study before or after the obligatory 3 semesters of calculus or whatever is going to be more useful than calc itself, just most people give up on math after calc.
I thought it was
I-single variable
II-multi variable
III-vector calculus
IV- Diff eq.
I would recommend up to diff eq just to be able to do DSP properly
You need math to be a good programmer
You don't need math to be a programmer
You don't need to be a good programmer to be an effective programmer
An effective programmer doesnt need math
What if you wanted to make a program that simulates demolitions?
What if you wanted to make software for self driving cars?
What if you wanted to make a new type compression format?
What if you wanted to do anything interesting whatsoever?
What makes you better than some random third worlder that can be hired remotely?
2 years ago
Anonymous
New algorithms are generally not developed by computer scientists unless you are an absolute galaxy-brain Black person like Knuth or Gosper, so what you're talking about is applying math that was developed by someone else in the medium of silicon, which does not even require understanding what the algorithm does. I think computer science is more about the manipulation of data objects efficiently, which is based on an understanding of how the computer itself stores, retrieves, and modifies said entities. Math is obviously involved but the type of math that is useful to computing does not track 1:1 with the sequence of math as it is taught as a subject in most schools. When do students in America take a self-contained course on statistics, for example? Most of them, probably never. Yet that has tons of applications in computer science.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>statistics >Yet that has tons of applications in computer science.
Like what? Just name a few.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I dont have to convince you zoomgay
Go cheat on your math
2 years ago
Anonymous
This is not a challenge you frick. I really want to know, as always
2 years ago
Anonymous
Theres been a bunch of posts about it and yet you insist. So you have a bias agaisnt math.
The surest way to know is open a book about programming and find out for yourself.
I dont mean learn C++ in 50 days or whatever. I mean real books. Books about algorithms, visual programming, etc...
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Theres been a bunch of posts about it and yet you insist. So you have a bias agaisnt math.
What are you retarrded or what?
I DID opened more than 1 books about programming. Statistics never came up. That's why I'm fricking asking.
Personally, I love MacKay's book. It puts machine learning methods into proper mathematical context.
2 years ago
Anonymous
this one ?
http://ce.sharif.edu/courses/97-98/2/ce676-1/resources/root/Notes/Mackay-SectionV.pdf
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah. Official link to full PDF here: https://www.inference.org.uk/itprnn/book.pdf
2 years ago
Anonymous
Thanks.
A part on Neural Networks just after a part on Information Theory and Probabilities/Statistics ?
This looks very good.
Also hard frankly.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah. It's definitely not just a light practical introduction. But it helped me deepen my understanding of statistics and machine learning.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Already gave you an answer if you actually want to know:
Not that anon, but the obvious things that come to mind are benchmarking, things like A/B testing, and rating/recommendation systems such as Amazon and most movie websites.
. At least that's where I've used stats.
2 years ago
Anonymous
In addition to what others have said: many business applications need to generate stats for their clients. Also, there's machine learning and related fields.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So that's what I thought.
You said >Yet that has tons of applications in computer science.
But the examples you gave me are not CS per se, they are literally programs doing statistics, which is of course useful in the real world,
So this was leading from the start.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Not that anon, but the obvious things that come to mind are benchmarking, things like A/B testing, and rating/recommendation systems such as Amazon and most movie websites.
Because then you cant do open world or custom physics.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Open workd random level generation i meant
But yeah sword games are so lame
Fricking click animation
How about real time animation based on the weapons weight?
I joined Linear Algebra courses of Hania Uscka-Wehlou on Udemy (when they cost about $10 or so, wait for sales) and now learning Math is the way I procrastinate. Peak Comfy.
I don't know what "good at math" means. Friends think I am a god at math because I know what a derivative and sigma operator are. But I consider myself an absolute midwit at math at best and I'm sure many others would consider me an absolute brainlet.
Sounds like you are good, but not great, at math. I place "good" between 1 and 3 standard deviations above average acumen and "great" 3 standard deviations or above. Purely opinion, though.
You don't have to be good at math, for being a good programmer you need to know where and when to apply which algorithm.
Just read a couple of books about algos and start programming.
You don't. Who the frick told you that? At most, you might have to look up a trig or calc equation online and copy it into your code. You will never do anything novel that requires you to actually understand advanced math.
I work a high profile position doing backend work for a fortune 50 company and I have never needed anything more advanced than algebra. I had to lookup some calculus once for a personal project when I was writing a 4D ray tracing engine, but I absolutely did not have to understand it to make it work.
The large majority of CRUD work (which is most work) does not require any math beyond basic algebra and an understanding of what people are discussing when they're talking about complexity and Big O notation. That will get you really far.
One thing you'll be completely deficient in is understanding the papers and theory around programming language implementations themselves, which some on this thread are discussing when they mention discrete math. That's not really the end of the world and you can scrape by just by learning everything you can about parsing and lexing, because in the real world you're going to hit a lot of parsing problems doing boring work.
The other major thing you'll be deficient in is understanding 3D graphics programming and things along the lines of digital signal processing and working with audio. DSPs in particular are not something you can just 'fake' or scrape by with just copying other people's code. You'll be able to understand what the code is doing, but you'll have no idea why it actually works. This one really sucks, but if you've got no interest in this, then you can skip calculus.
It all depends on what you actually care about, anon.
To add to what said, for getting started with practical parsing and lexing without diving deep into theory, I recommend the Crafting Interpreters book. Not too hard and available for free online.
That book is very nice, the ANTLR book "Language Implementation Patterns" by Terence Parr is also good for covering lexing and parsing in an approachable, low-theory way.
You don't need to be good at math to write a login page. But almost all advanced things you can do with computing need some understanding of math. Games engines need math. Simulations are massive users of math. Machine learning is full of math. Even working with a database or spreadsheet (beyond glorified todo list level) needs some understanding of math.
There are a lot of different parts of math, and you don't need them all. A lot of the time, high school math is most of what you need.
Being good at math is a certificate of not being a midwit, so it's a thing in itself.
At least having a clue of arithmetic and consequences, and how to write a step by step process.
>consequences
math?
It's not like you were going to make anything sophisticated anyways
computers are computing machines. how are you going to conjure the spirits of the computer without any understanding of computation?
>how are you going to conjure the spirits of the compute
Why does only moronic memes replicates?
>he doesn't know about computer wizards summoning daemons
your brain works via electrochemical reactions
how are you able to ponder and use cognitive abilities without graduating with bio-chem degree?
You're not becoming computers. You're using them. They are used to compute. Your biochemical brain isn't as good as them at computing so you have to learn how it's done to properly command computers.
stackoverflow
>starts twerking
Hired
>stunning and brave
>hired
math is work out for brain
more math, brain more fit
fit brain, better problem solving skills and logic
better problem solving skills and logic, better programmer
I studied philosophy for a long time before coming back to programming and I feel like it helped me a lot. After all, it's all just premises and conclusions when you reduce it to its components.
>philocuck
kek
No. Reduce to its components, it's only manipulation of information and logic
Bro, if you said physics I would concede. Give me an example of how philosophy helped you significantly
different anon. Philosophy taught my brain to better imagine abstract systems in my head. Math taught me how to best implement the components of that abstract system. Philosophy with a good dose of meditation trains the brain in turmoil to find the eye of the storm when the ideas come too quick.
People think philosophers are like artists or something.
Theyre literarily the farthest thing from that. Its a sequencial logical subject. They autistically think about the meaning of meaning.
No, I know they are logical, I just don't think it can replace math for programmatic problem solving. That said, it requires a good enough IQ and intellectual rigor. I don't doubt that people who naturally grasp philosophy also naturally grasp programming, but I doubt the crossover from one to the other
Well there is a subset of philosophy that only deals with logic and its pretty close to discrete math i think.
Its like 3d artists who are better if they know how to draw you know. Like you dont need to know how to draw to be a 3d modeler but it helps.
And philosophy is not something the status quo wants everyone to learn because frankly they dont want everyone questioning everything all the time. Also it can be the biggest time sink of them all.
Yeah, 100% plan to study philosophy and linguistics when I am older. Old fart subjects if you aren't careful but interesting and in the case of philosophy, enlightening
Ive tried to look into philosophy before and i think ill pass.
They got a saying in lit. Start with the greeks. That is start with the greeks and read every book written by every major philosopher since then. That is just so fricking boring.
You don't, you need to know math to get a degree.
I'd argue that high linguistic abilities and a good short-term memory correlates to better programming skills than just being good at math.
This. You can tell the difference when it's done by someone who can explain shit in simple terms vs. autistic mathgays whose capacity for theory of mind is near zero and assume everything they think it's obvious to everyone else.
>autistic mathgays whose capacity for theory of mind is near zero
They don't exists. That's just a cope.
.t autistic mathgay who can explain shit
>They don't exists
Thank you for proving my point. You apparently have no idea how things really are. I'm not saying they don't exist, but they are extremely rare.
Good form in coding comes with experience. Being insufferably slow assuming that it is the other person's job to not skip a single unneeded step on a process comes with being a moron
hilarious wordcel cope
I always scored higher on verbal than I did on math. I think you may be right anon.
You don't, But people who already knows math are usually good at programming.
Vectors and calculus (mostly vectors) are really handy for doing things that involve lengths, distance and direction. I wouldn't say its necessary but knowing these has helped me solve somewhat challenging problems
At the very least you need to be comfortable with basic algebra in order to do things like calculate the runtime of an algorithm (or even just for everyday tasks, like UI layout). Learning Calc I/II is a good way to be certain that you're good at algebra.
Proofs correspond well to programming, e.g. proof by induction is often used to introduce recursion.
Strong linear algebra and decent calculus skills are essential for computer graphics.
>Calc I/II
>I/II
What the frick is this. You expect me to know quirks of Australian education, lol?
Calculus I and II in burgerstan cover differentiation and integration of functions of one variable. Calculus III is multivariate calculus. Most CS programs don't require calc III in the US, but if it doesn't, it's probably not very good. Mine didn't, but I took it anyway, because it felt wrong not to.
Game dev and graphics programming is very math heavy.
Im assuming most people here are mathlets which is why is funny when they make the opengl triangle and think the can make a game from scratch.
Well i see that less now. Maybe g learnt its lesson.
How often is anything you learn in Calculus actually used in writing code. Is linear algebra packed-in with Calc courses or is it a separate thing? The branch of math that is most applicable to CS would I guess be Number Theory but I think that's mostly taught as an elective for upperclassmen in most colleges.
The most applicable math for programming is discrete math.
With discrete math you can do path finding on maps, sorting data and just algorithms in general.
Imagine if you had to program sonething from scratch and you couldnt import anything and make an app.
Youd be fricked.
Trig is also a must for any sort of visual programming.
All those photo filters app you see either use trig or some type of calculus.
What's the most efficient algorithm for calculating a prime :^)
Ray-tracing gets its name from literally "tracing rays emanating from a fixed point towards a circle" or something like that. Trig is based because it has always been concerned with practical, calculable results.
I'm not American (or Australian) actually, but I figured most people would know what I meant.
As I understand it,
Calc I: Basic single-variable calculus
Calc II: Still single-variable but more in-depth- various integration techniques, taylor series, etc
You'll rarely use calculus in your work unless you go into gamedev, but having to learn it forces you to really git gud at precalc (algebra, trig) which is more likely to be relevant.
In general, I'd say that you need to learn one "tier" of maths higher than what you plan to actually use. Learn tier n and you'll eventually forget the details of that tier if you don't actively use it, but you'll probably remember tier n-1 well.
I'd say any math you study before or after the obligatory 3 semesters of calculus or whatever is going to be more useful than calc itself, just most people give up on math after calc.
I thought it was
I-single variable
II-multi variable
III-vector calculus
IV- Diff eq.
I would recommend up to diff eq just to be able to do DSP properly
You need math to be a good programmer
You don't need math to be a programmer
You don't need to be a good programmer to be an effective programmer
An effective programmer doesnt need math
I think you need to take a break from the math if you're writing like that
them digits
kek
1000 aligned
what can we pack in it?
meant for
Call me when you write a game engine without math
Not every programmer goal is to write a game engine.
What if you wanted to make a program that simulates demolitions?
What if you wanted to make software for self driving cars?
What if you wanted to make a new type compression format?
What if you wanted to do anything interesting whatsoever?
What makes you better than some random third worlder that can be hired remotely?
New algorithms are generally not developed by computer scientists unless you are an absolute galaxy-brain Black person like Knuth or Gosper, so what you're talking about is applying math that was developed by someone else in the medium of silicon, which does not even require understanding what the algorithm does. I think computer science is more about the manipulation of data objects efficiently, which is based on an understanding of how the computer itself stores, retrieves, and modifies said entities. Math is obviously involved but the type of math that is useful to computing does not track 1:1 with the sequence of math as it is taught as a subject in most schools. When do students in America take a self-contained course on statistics, for example? Most of them, probably never. Yet that has tons of applications in computer science.
>statistics
>Yet that has tons of applications in computer science.
Like what? Just name a few.
I dont have to convince you zoomgay
Go cheat on your math
This is not a challenge you frick. I really want to know, as always
Theres been a bunch of posts about it and yet you insist. So you have a bias agaisnt math.
The surest way to know is open a book about programming and find out for yourself.
I dont mean learn C++ in 50 days or whatever. I mean real books. Books about algorithms, visual programming, etc...
>Theres been a bunch of posts about it and yet you insist. So you have a bias agaisnt math.
What are you retarrded or what?
I DID opened more than 1 books about programming. Statistics never came up. That's why I'm fricking asking.
How about this one
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiil7KU_9r4AhVUZ2wGHV-BCQcQFnoECAwQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fai.stanford.edu%2F~nilsson%2FMLBOOK.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1BYvp-7JUy_8XSmmiJKjzS
Personally, I love MacKay's book. It puts machine learning methods into proper mathematical context.
this one ?
http://ce.sharif.edu/courses/97-98/2/ce676-1/resources/root/Notes/Mackay-SectionV.pdf
Yeah. Official link to full PDF here: https://www.inference.org.uk/itprnn/book.pdf
Thanks.
A part on Neural Networks just after a part on Information Theory and Probabilities/Statistics ?
This looks very good.
Also hard frankly.
Yeah. It's definitely not just a light practical introduction. But it helped me deepen my understanding of statistics and machine learning.
Already gave you an answer if you actually want to know:
. At least that's where I've used stats.
In addition to what others have said: many business applications need to generate stats for their clients. Also, there's machine learning and related fields.
So that's what I thought.
You said
>Yet that has tons of applications in computer science.
But the examples you gave me are not CS per se, they are literally programs doing statistics, which is of course useful in the real world,
So this was leading from the start.
Not that anon, but the obvious things that come to mind are benchmarking, things like A/B testing, and rating/recommendation systems such as Amazon and most movie websites.
Statistics was mandatory for my CS BSc.
Why would anyone do that, in the age of gazillion game engines? It's also not too difficult.
Because then you cant do open world or custom physics.
Open workd random level generation i meant
But yeah sword games are so lame
Fricking click animation
How about real time animation based on the weapons weight?
That doesn't make anyone a good programmer, let alone an effective programmer.
Good programers dont reinvent shit. Effective programmers dont waste time on game engines.
I joined Linear Algebra courses of Hania Uscka-Wehlou on Udemy (when they cost about $10 or so, wait for sales) and now learning Math is the way I procrastinate. Peak Comfy.
I don't know what "good at math" means. Friends think I am a god at math because I know what a derivative and sigma operator are. But I consider myself an absolute midwit at math at best and I'm sure many others would consider me an absolute brainlet.
Sounds like you are good, but not great, at math. I place "good" between 1 and 3 standard deviations above average acumen and "great" 3 standard deviations or above. Purely opinion, though.
How are you gonna write if..then if you even know De Morgan's laws, lol?
For writing websites, you don't. For real programming you do.
If you're not good at math, git gud @ regex, graphic design, or like database shit.
Depending on the type of the project and tools you use you may not need it
You don't have to be good at math, for being a good programmer you need to know where and when to apply which algorithm.
Just read a couple of books about algos and start programming.
programming is math
You don't. Who the frick told you that? At most, you might have to look up a trig or calc equation online and copy it into your code. You will never do anything novel that requires you to actually understand advanced math.
Not everyone is a web s 0 y dev like you
I work a high profile position doing backend work for a fortune 50 company and I have never needed anything more advanced than algebra. I had to lookup some calculus once for a personal project when I was writing a 4D ray tracing engine, but I absolutely did not have to understand it to make it work.
How the frick do you guys learn algorithms/ds without math?
>t. math major that’s reading clsr algorithms right now
clrs*
The large majority of CRUD work (which is most work) does not require any math beyond basic algebra and an understanding of what people are discussing when they're talking about complexity and Big O notation. That will get you really far.
One thing you'll be completely deficient in is understanding the papers and theory around programming language implementations themselves, which some on this thread are discussing when they mention discrete math. That's not really the end of the world and you can scrape by just by learning everything you can about parsing and lexing, because in the real world you're going to hit a lot of parsing problems doing boring work.
The other major thing you'll be deficient in is understanding 3D graphics programming and things along the lines of digital signal processing and working with audio. DSPs in particular are not something you can just 'fake' or scrape by with just copying other people's code. You'll be able to understand what the code is doing, but you'll have no idea why it actually works. This one really sucks, but if you've got no interest in this, then you can skip calculus.
It all depends on what you actually care about, anon.
To add to what said, for getting started with practical parsing and lexing without diving deep into theory, I recommend the Crafting Interpreters book. Not too hard and available for free online.
That book is very nice, the ANTLR book "Language Implementation Patterns" by Terence Parr is also good for covering lexing and parsing in an approachable, low-theory way.
Thanks for the recommendation!
You don't need to be good at math to write a login page. But almost all advanced things you can do with computing need some understanding of math. Games engines need math. Simulations are massive users of math. Machine learning is full of math. Even working with a database or spreadsheet (beyond glorified todo list level) needs some understanding of math.
There are a lot of different parts of math, and you don't need them all. A lot of the time, high school math is most of what you need.