Chinise literature

Anon, which is the literature that you recommend that was made in China?

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  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    China has never produced anything that can be considered "literature".

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Romance of the Three Kingdoms?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      did you read them all in their original language before coming to this conclusion

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        have you?
        classical chinese seems like one of the coolest literary languages of all time, with over 2000 years of continuous traditional use.
        but man frick learning chinese. can't imagine how painful it would be to learn the chinese equivalent of latin

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >can't imagine how painful it would be to learn the chinese equivalent of latin
          Translators spent decades learning, studying and translating from this language. I will honor their sacrifice 🙂

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Learning Classical Chinese to the level of being able to read its foundational texts is a considerable but doable task. You should see my guide in /clg/'s FAQ.
          It's the opposite of Latin: Confucius, Mocius, and Zhuangzi are all much easier than some random Ming bureaucrat. If you undertake it, you will be a student for life, but you will get access to the longest continuous literary tradition in the world.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            man I'm still struggling to read japanese comic books for children after a couple years of studying.
            next language I learn is going to be some easy romance shit, not romance of the three kingdoms shit

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            If you know Kanji, you can begin reading CC very fast. People do read it in Japanese readings too: look up kambun.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Learning Classical Chinese to the level of being able to read its foundational texts is a considerable but doable task. You should see my guide in /clg/'s FAQ.
          It's the opposite of Latin: Confucius, Mocius, and Zhuangzi are all much easier than some random Ming bureaucrat. If you undertake it, you will be a student for life, but you will get access to the longest continuous literary tradition in the world.

          Classical is pretty hard. It takes a lot to translate it over to English because of how polysemantic words can be.Most modern Mandarin words are two characters represented by two syllables. Most words in Classical are one character. Qin Shi Huang ruined my life by extinguishing so many philosophical traditions' books and killing their students. Jesuits made it worse by Christianizing early translations so that now public domain translations.
          Of books to learn Classical, Van Noorden is probably going to be what people point to first. I have issues with how he seems to westernize translations of key philosophic terms. Pulleylank's outline is good. Check out the New Practical Primer of Literary Chinese. I want to get ahold of a copy of Volgelsang's new introduction. With all that said, Classical is a really rewarding study.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Jesus how could anyone enjoy a translation like that? Just so bland compared to the original

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Good translations of poetry from any language to any other language are exceptionally rare, unless the original language is closely related to the target language.

            e.g. the Divine Comedy is best read in the original Italian. All English translations suck. French translations are probably mid. Spanish translations can approximate the beauty of the original. Chinese translation would be literal dogshit

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >e.g. the Divine Comedy is best read in the original Italian. All English translations suck.
            In general, a translation is a filter for being able to read a story.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      FPBP.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Junior, you're courting death!

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      FPBP.

      ignorant plebs

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Aren’t you ashamed?

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I really enjoyed Pu Songling, Yuan Mei and Ji Yun's true, strange tales collections. The latter in particular was very interesting and at times quite profound

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      So far I've read most of Du Fu, Wang Wei, a bit of Li Bai, a bit of Tao Qian, the Book of Songs (tr. Waley), and part of the Wen Xuan anthology. The best stuff from the first three (just due to the fact that so much poetry at the time was "occasional" in nature, they all have a certain amount of filler), and probably everything by Tao Qian, is unmissable. The best of the capital rhapsodies is probably Zhang Heng's, and Sima Xiangru's hunting rhapsodies and Yang Xiong's sacrifice rhapsody are absolutely divine. The Songs vary widely in terms of subject matter but Waley puts the compelling stuff first so it's easy to just read until you lose interest and drop without missing much.
      There's a bunch of others I'm looking forward to getting into as well, most obviously Qu Yuan and Song Yu. Overall I think they're absurdly underexposed and underrated.

      Don't know as much about this stuff but it seems really based.

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Journey to the West is amazing.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Seconding this, would also really like to read Romance of the Three Kingdoms and the Dream of the Red Chamber, I just havent found any good translations.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        You didn't like the Moss Roberts translation of ROTK?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          I thought his version was abridged?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            There are two versions of his translation. One is abridged (single volume) and the other is unabridged (2-volume or 5-volume format, depending on the publisher).

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Neat, thanks!
            I'll add them to the list of books I want but can't justify buying lol.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The second version has 4 volumes?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You're right, it's 4 volumes, not 5. My bad.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        No Water Margin? I think that it is a worthy addition to this list.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        The David Hawkes translation of Dream of the Red Chamber is supposedly the best one currently out in English.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    oh cool, how convenient. i just finished reading the golden lotus and was about to make a thread complaining about how much i hated it but i will do it here.
    the golden lotus is the most disgusting book i have ever read.
    it is literally 4 thousand pages of a chinese noble fricking b***hes but his wiener is supposedly sooooooo big no girl can ever take him and he literally makes them all cry in pain every single time. the way the sex is described in this book was the most revolting thing i have ever read.
    this was the first time i actually gagged while reading something.
    i've seen all sorts of fricked up shit on IQfy and few have given me the disgust this book gave me.
    frick the golden lotus.
    the fact this shit is considered a "classic" of chinese """literature""" proves these soulles bugs have nothing of value to offer.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      why do puritans even bother with literature? stick to the church sermon

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I don't see your point. Would you say the same about Bataille?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Based. Frick bugs

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        seethe

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >someone called this book a classic thus that is what all Chinese thought
      You are very smart and definitely not the exact kind of mindless follower drone you accuse the Chinese of being. If anything the "hive" majority reacted as you did, and it was primarily scholars who surreptitiously read and praised it, as you would know if you were capable of reading the Wiki article past the opening paragraph.
      Really must be a blissful existence having no self-reflection or introspection whatsoever.

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    the Mo Yan story where a man puts donkey shit in his mouth

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    any fun contemporary reqs?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      ->

      the Mo Yan story where a man puts donkey shit in his mouth

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Reverend Insanity

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Fortress Besieged by Qian Zhongshu

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    what’s with webnovel xuanhuan/xianxia basically taking the characters and morality of water margin entirely seriously and portraying it as a good/reasonable thing when 95% of what happens in water margin was held as an example of wickedness in chinese culture?

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I'll have an egg fried rice duck in onions bean sauce chicken chow mein and do prawn crackers come free with that?

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    why do these stories (ROTK, Water Margin, etc.) start out relatively realistically only to then introduce a character who can use magical talismans to run faster than a horse, or have another guy throw a rock that somehow causes the world to make an illusion that fricks over another guy’s army? I can kinda understand Water Margin, what with Gao Qiu unleashing demons and the taoist sage who looks like a little boy, but ROTK?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous
    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      what’s with webnovel xuanhuan/xianxia basically taking the characters and morality of water margin entirely seriously and portraying it as a good/reasonable thing when 95% of what happens in water margin was held as an example of wickedness in chinese culture?

      Both just expressions of peasant worldview. Golden Lotus seems like kinda the inverse where it's immoral in a way that's a little more involuted and twisted and it's also placed in a realistic (and upper-class) context, with the result that it only really appeals to the educated classes even if it goes against some of the ostensible principles of their education; whereas the sexuality of something like Water Margin is more boisterous and natural, if exaggerated, in a sort of Chaucerian way, so it doesn't spark disgust in the plebeian mind.
      But tbf I haven't actually read either one so I could be totally off the mark on this.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        there’s are multiple occasions where the protagonists, one of the 108 stars, actively begins talking about cannibalism, as in considering humans just another kind of meat like beef or pork. there’s a scene where a giant black man kills a guy by slicing bits of him off, grils it yakiniku style, and eats it in front of him.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Well what you were saying doesn't even apply there because cannibalism was not necessarily taboo even among the educated classes. They liked a bit of human flesh now and then, we all have our vices.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >why do these stories (ROTK, Water Margin, etc.) start out relatively realistically
      water margin starts off with the 108 stars being reincarnated

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    How bad are the chinese published editions of the classic novels?
    The translations seem fine but are the books going to disintegrate?

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It seems many of the Chinese characters can still carry the same meanings in modern Chinese as they did in the past. So it seems the challenge can often be more with trying to decipher the intended meaning out of a variety readings, rather than with having to learn a different variety of Chinese language. It's still probably simpler than the different categories of readings there are in Japanese.

    Rather than waiting to become fluent in some historical language just to begin reading texts, a more viable and entertaining endeavor could be to use dictionaries and lexicons to begin creating your own translations of works which interest you or individual portions of them, gradually assimilating more knowledge as you go along.

    Seeing as both Chinese and Japanese have a significant cultural appeal, it can be difficult to decide on committing to learning either one. The artistic appeal of the writing system is among the most common ones though. For that reason I think I would like to commit to learning characters for it's own sake without actually trying to learn grammar or become fluent in anything to see what can be done with that.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Recommend me books the CCP hates please
    Or just stuff critical of them in general

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Reverend Insanity

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