>Christian: the prime mover exists and is necessary
>Theist:ok
Christian: and that’s why you must adhere to my religion’s One True God!
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>Christian: the prime mover exists and is necessary. >Theist:ok
The Bible proves the Trinity.
The Trinity isn't in the Bible you polytheist troony
>polytheist
Yahweh was a Bronze Age Canaanite demon
What a disgusting mustache
We can go beyond that and prove that the omnipotent Prime Mover must be Trinitarian: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/SNn5QU-Py18
We can essentially prove with logic itself that the Prime Mover would have all of the attributes and qualities of the God of Christianity.
Why must a prime mover be able to sit while he's walking? And why would he have only three persons instead of infinitely many persons?
>Why must a prime mover be able to sit while he's walking?
The Prime Mover would be omnipotent, that can be also be proved very easily and quickly, check out https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5cpTPODWaYA
And if he's omnipotent, that means that at all times he's capable of doing all actions.
>And why would he have only three persons instead of infinitely many persons?
Actual infinities are logical impossibilities so an "Infintinity" instead of a Trinity is out right off the bat. Trinitarianism really boils down to the fact that God must have these quasi-independent "extensions" of himself, and can have multiple such "extensions" simultaneously.
>The Prime Mover would be omnipotent, that can be also be proved very easily and quickly, check out https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5cpTPODWaYA
That's fallacious. The prime mover doesn't need to be limited by any external factors, but could simply be limited by his own nature.
>Actual infinities are logical impossibilities
Never been proven, you've just heard William Lane Craig repeat it.
>Trinitarianism really boils down to the fact that God must have these quasi-independent "extensions" of himself, and can have multiple such "extensions" simultaneously.
Why three of them?
>The prime mover doesn't need to be limited by any external factors
Well of course - nothing external can limit an omnipotent being
>but could simply be limited by his own nature.
We can tell nothing limits it since it was able to create from nothing. If something has the ability to bring something into existence from nothing, then it has the ability to bring anything into existence from nothing, for the reason it talked about
>Never been proven
Is Thompson's Lamp on or off at the end?
>you've just heard William Lane Craig repeat it.
Finitism is a very well established school of thought among professional mathematicians.
>Why three of them?
He hasn't needed more of them. Presumably it's three at least as of New Testament times since the Son took on physical form, meaning a semi-separate "extension" was needed for nonphysical actions
>We can tell nothing limits it since it was able to create from nothing. If something has the ability to bring something into existence from nothing, then it has the ability to bring anything into existence from nothing, for the reason it talked about
Does not follow. Out of all the possible worlds, is there one where the prime mover is the God of Abraham and brings into existence a world that is not the best of all possible worlds?
>Is Thompson's Lamp on or off at the end?
Just a reframing of Achilles and the tortoise. Pseudoproblem.
>Finitism is a very well established school of thought among professional mathematicians.
Is it the only school of thought among professional mathematicians?
>He hasn't needed more of them.
How do you know that? If he is omnipotent, he must be able to jump, sit, swim, hang off a branch, do push ups, and play the guitar all at the same time. How does your trinitarian God do this?
>brings into existence a world that is not the best of all possible worlds?
I would say that's every possible world! (Other than maybe ones where Abraham doesn't exist, depending on how you define "God of Abraham")
The best of all worlds would be one that's infinitely good - i.e. if you measured the amount of total good in it your result would be ∞.
If actual infinities are logical impossibilities (and they are!) then that isn't a possible world. "Best world" is like "highest number" where it's a contradictory notion
>Pseudoproblem.
Pseudoanswer P: You didn't even say if its on or off...which would it be?
>Is it the only school of thought among professional mathematicians?
Nope, but my point was that this idea doesn't come from William Lane Craig.
>How do you know that?
Well for figuring out what someone has needed we have to move from pure logic to the realm of observation, and the communications we observe from God suggest that, at least as of 32 AD, there weren't more than that.
>If he is omnipotent, he must be able to jump, sit, swim...all at the same time. How
Two potential ways, which might actually just be different ways of saying the same thing:
1. Could use additional hypostases. Like say the Son was incarnate and the Holy Ghost wanted to, I dunno, inghostate and haunt a specific building or something - then perhaps you'd have a Quadrinity where there's an additional hypostasis since two hypostases are otherwise occupied but God can't lose the ability to do anything a hypostasis is needed for
2. One or the other hypostases does it. The division between Son and Holy Spirit could reflect different roles and perhaps if God wanted to both sit and swim then there would just be two manifestations of the Son, one sitting and the other swimming, while the Holy Spirit performs other activities.
It's not clear exactly which is the case, or even whether these are actually describing objectively different things.
ok, but he could have quadrillions of such "extensions". your claim of "3" is unsubstantiated.
>Trinity
>logical
your picrel is called modalism and it's heresy
>it's heresy
Please tell me which passage in the Bible anything I've said contradicts
Kinda like I said to the guy above, there are two possibilities, which might even just be the same thing described with different words:
1. Yes you genuinely could have a "Quadrillionity" where due to some circumstance God needs to be performing a quadrillion mutually exclusive actions at once and so has a quadrillion separate hypostases active. Baptisms take a very long time in this world P:
An analogy here would be each hypostasis being like a limb: so if you want to hold two separate things two separate arms.
2. The Son and the Holy Spirit are for different things and whichever one's role is to do these various quadrillion things does it. So perhaps if it's a quadrillion different physical actions then the Son just manifests as a trillion Jesuses doing them, all of them the Son even if distinct from one another.
An analogy here would be each hypostasis being like a TYPE of limb: so for holding things your arms do it, for transportation your legs do it
To my knowledge our available information doesn't make it immediately apparent which of these is the correct model, or even if there's really a true difference between them. I personally lean towards the first option but others prefer the second.
Can god create a rock so heavy he himself cannot pick it up?
He can! The Father can create a rock and the Son can incarnate in a physical form that can't lift said rock.
Of course, the Father would remain able to lift said rock, so it would also still be true that God can lift the rock.
And how does that prove that Jesus was God and the israelites were chosen and all the rest? Just another smokescreen
You can't determine something like that a priori since it depends on a bunch of non-deterministic events (Terah might've chosen to have no kids for instance, so no Abraham and hence God's chosen people wouldn't be a line of Abraham's descendants), but what it does prove is that God does have a divine Son, both Himself and yet independent from Him.
Of the major religions in the world, which ones teach that? Who taught it to them, and which people did he come from?
See where I'm going?
Yeah prime mover arguments are terrible, they also rely on a particular interpretation of red shift (the big bang) which was chosen specifically by God haters to deny Earth's special position which they found intolerable.
tl;dr distant galaxies move with respect to Earth. They couldn't accept Earth as the center, so they decided it must look like that everywhere and everything is expanding in all directions.
do you think in an alternate universe theres a groups of christians coping about God being 4 persons lmao
Alternate universe doesn’t exist nerd.
Christian: a Bronze Age Canaanite demon invented the universe chud
>also we plagiarized half of our holy book from Sumerians, get over it and trust the israelites!
The prime mover is Amaterasu.