Start with the Greekz
Learn music
Learn math
Learn poetry prose and study lyricism and rap and songwriting
Befome a composer
A mathematician
A programmer and a logician
Partimento, plato, Aristotle, le bible, piano, drums, rap, number and set theory, music theory, geometry
What else u want?
Cosmology, the answers you seek are in the stars. Astrology, be familiar with each planet and the major constellations
Plato details this Iirc in the Republic when describing the training of the philosophers there's shit on YouTube about it too
Work as a software engineer, proficient with programming already.
Instead of a list of topics, do you have any specific resources/recommendations? Especially with the Trivium (grammar, logic, rhetoric) I don't have a lot of experience.
>Recommendations for learning poetry and prose?
Nta, but the most useful suggestions I can think of would be:
For prose,
Richard Lanham - Analyzing Prose
" - Style: An Anti-Textbook
" - Revising Prose
Ward Farnsworth - Any of his books on English rhetoric, metaphors, or style
Longinus - On the Sublime
Demetrius - On Style
Hermogenes of Tarsus - On Types of Style
These all discuss the mechanics of phrasing and diction, and even the ancient ones abound in examples.
For poetry,
John Hollander - Rhyme's Reason
Lewis Turco - The New Book of Forms
Alfred Corn - The Poem's Heartbeat
Robert Pinsky - The Sounds of Poetry
And maybe the NYR edition of The Stuffed Owl: An Anthology of Bad Verse, for clear examples of bad style. These otherwise cover the mechanics of metrical schemes.
All of these should be up on libgen if you don't wanna throw too much money down.
Sounds like you're missing having read lots of Greek lit, that's kind of important for this
You need a lot of plato to really engage with Aristotle's organon
https://voca.ro/17BhjC89C4iE
I learned by taking lessons with a teacher, reading books on it, and practicing extensively at the organ and piano. Have 3 phrases of a chorale harmonization
1 month ago
Anonymous
Yeah that's not polyphony
https://voca.ro/1ovS2i2RTciZ
1 month ago
Anonymous
Not skilled enough to play on a real piano, gotta use Musescore huh?
1 month ago
Anonymous
I'm actually about done learning it if I could just stop shitposting
1 month ago
Anonymous
Here's an improvised fugue. Not very polished but you can't say it's not polyphonic, it's literally a fugue.
https://voca.ro/17egoaXlO4Md
1 month ago
Anonymous
Salutations sir you are truly one of reason
here have this, it's how I've been studying 4 parts melodizing..
1 month ago
Anonymous
Have the full chorale with a more elaborate realization
https://voca.ro/1gxRl5a7VGVD
Yeah that's not polyphony
https://voca.ro/1ovS2i2RTciZ
Don't care, it's 4 part harmony. I'm not going to bother with a fugue for a IQfy post
Trivium + Quadrivium was made for aspiring medieval philosophers, not for 21st century autodidacts. If you want to do it, go all the way. Learn Latin and Ancient Greek. Search out original medieval sources. Don't waste your time with ,
Unironically Catholic home schooling may be a good place to start resource wise, this one seems pretty comprehensive and even has most of the books free in PDFs
https://classicalliberalarts.com/library/#
I'm trying to learn the Seven Liberal Arts as well, good luck anon
,
>Recommendations for learning poetry and prose?
Nta, but the most useful suggestions I can think of would be:
For prose,
Richard Lanham - Analyzing Prose
" - Style: An Anti-Textbook
" - Revising Prose
Ward Farnsworth - Any of his books on English rhetoric, metaphors, or style
Longinus - On the Sublime
Demetrius - On Style
Hermogenes of Tarsus - On Types of Style
These all discuss the mechanics of phrasing and diction, and even the ancient ones abound in examples.
For poetry,
John Hollander - Rhyme's Reason
Lewis Turco - The New Book of Forms
Alfred Corn - The Poem's Heartbeat
Robert Pinsky - The Sounds of Poetry
And maybe the NYR edition of The Stuffed Owl: An Anthology of Bad Verse, for clear examples of bad style. These otherwise cover the mechanics of metrical schemes.
All of these should be up on libgen if you don't wanna throw too much money down.
,
https://i.imgur.com/xmrpjlL.png
Sure, I got you :3 >How To Read a Book - Mortimer Adler [1940 version is better] >Иcкyccтвo лoгики. Кaк читaть книги - Cepгeй Иннoкeнтьeвич Пoвapнин (if you know Russian) >Reading Like a Writer: A Guide for People Who Love Books and For Those Who Want to Write Them - Francine Prose
>The Trivium >A Mind for Numbers: How to Excel at Math and Science - Barbara Oakley >The Elements of Style - WIlliam Strunk Jr. and E. B. White >The Oxford’s Essential Guide to Writing - Thomas S. Kane >Gorgias - Plato >Poetics - Aristotle >Rhetoric - Aristotle >The Organon - Aristotle >Brill’s Companion to Cicero, Oratory and Rhetoric - Edited by James M. May >An Introduction to English Grammar - Sidney Greenbaum & Gerald Nelson >Understanding English Grammar: A Linguistic Perspective - T. E. Payne >Creative & Critical Thinking - W. Edgar Moore >An Introduction to Logic - Irving Copi >Logic as a Liberal Art: An Introduction to Rhetoric & Reasoning - R. E. Houser >The Categories - Aristotle >An Advanced English Grammar - Kittredge >The Chicago Guide to Grammar, Usage, and Punctuation - Garner >Oedipus Tyrannus - Sophocles >The Interpretation of Dreams - Freud >The Birth of Tragedy - Friedrich Nietzsche >Socratic Logic - Peter Kreeft >The Elements of Eloquence: How to Turn the Perfect English Phrase - Mark Forsyth >Classical English Style - Ward Farnsworth >Classical English Metaphor - Ward Farnsworth >Classical English Rhetoric - Ward Farnsworth >Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student - Edward P. J. Corbett >Cicero de Oratore - Marcus Jullius Cicero >Quintilian’s “Institutio Oratoria” - Loeb Classical Library, translated by H. E. Butler
Cry more. The trivium was made for a specific civilization with specific interests, and a vastly different body of knowledge than what we have now. Either go all the way or quit the larp.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>NO SUCH THING AS SKILL TRANSFER!!!
1 month ago
Anonymous
Looks like your mediaeval education didn't teach you reading comprehension. Learn english before ever replying to me again, psued.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>ummmm... I thought my argument was smart... but you made it look dumb... >must be a REEDIN COMPREEHENSHUN issue >no I dont believe in implications and syllogisms, those are for medieval scholars and pseuds
Strictly untrue; the Quadrivium is just the mathematical education of Plato's Republic book 7, and the Trivium is just the marriage of Aristotle's Organon + Roman rhetorical education (Cicero and Quintilian). Nothing about any of that prevents someone from using what are treated as tools for sharpening thought on contemporary subjects, or from looking to analogues.
Unironically Catholic home schooling may be a good place to start resource wise, this one seems pretty comprehensive and even has most of the books free in PDFs
https://classicalliberalarts.com/library/#
I'm trying to learn the Seven Liberal Arts as well, good luck anon
None of the subjects in the trivium/quadrivium are bad in themselves (and indeed some, most notably grammar, are sorely needed), but studying music theory or astronomy just to tick a box when one is uninterested in either seems like a waste of time. What effect do you think the traditional liberal arts have on the soul that would warrant their study?
You're not really doing it unless you SLOG though Peter Lombard's Sentences and write your own commentary on them.
That's what all the medievals did. Aquinas wrote a commentary on the Sentences. Bonaventure wrote a commentary on the Sentences. Scotus wrote a commentary on the Sentences. Ockham, Eckhart, etc.
By the time you're done, reading Anselm and Abelard will be a breath of fresh air.
Sure, I got you :3 >How To Read a Book - Mortimer Adler [1940 version is better] >Иcкyccтвo лoгики. Кaк читaть книги - Cepгeй Иннoкeнтьeвич Пoвapнин (if you know Russian) >Reading Like a Writer: A Guide for People Who Love Books and For Those Who Want to Write Them - Francine Prose
>The Trivium >A Mind for Numbers: How to Excel at Math and Science - Barbara Oakley >The Elements of Style - WIlliam Strunk Jr. and E. B. White >The Oxford’s Essential Guide to Writing - Thomas S. Kane >Gorgias - Plato >Poetics - Aristotle >Rhetoric - Aristotle >The Organon - Aristotle >Brill’s Companion to Cicero, Oratory and Rhetoric - Edited by James M. May >An Introduction to English Grammar - Sidney Greenbaum & Gerald Nelson >Understanding English Grammar: A Linguistic Perspective - T. E. Payne >Creative & Critical Thinking - W. Edgar Moore >An Introduction to Logic - Irving Copi >Logic as a Liberal Art: An Introduction to Rhetoric & Reasoning - R. E. Houser >The Categories - Aristotle >An Advanced English Grammar - Kittredge >The Chicago Guide to Grammar, Usage, and Punctuation - Garner >Oedipus Tyrannus - Sophocles >The Interpretation of Dreams - Freud >The Birth of Tragedy - Friedrich Nietzsche >Socratic Logic - Peter Kreeft >The Elements of Eloquence: How to Turn the Perfect English Phrase - Mark Forsyth >Classical English Style - Ward Farnsworth >Classical English Metaphor - Ward Farnsworth >Classical English Rhetoric - Ward Farnsworth >Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student - Edward P. J. Corbett >Cicero de Oratore - Marcus Jullius Cicero >Quintilian’s “Institutio Oratoria” - Loeb Classical Library, translated by H. E. Butler
This board is so fricking stupid. Reading these replies is like reading myself write long ago except I was never this ignorant and stupid. What a therapy for the ego.
>autofellating aristocrat soul LARPers love wojaks
It's never not hilarious seeing how people like this always go out of their way to make themselves look as moronic as possible. Triviumscum self-refute.
Trad education (ie till 1900 something depending on the area) was just 60 hours of Greek and Latin and 5 hours of math every week.
Let me guess, you NEED more?
what does the grammar part of the trivium involve, at least historically? if it's anything to do with style as opposed to linguistics it seems like a waste of time
Grammar education historically pertained to grammar as we more or less recognize it in grade school, but with it resembling linguistics in its more advanced forms. Style was treated in the study of rhetoric.
This would have been back when Greek and Latin were the vernacular. Grammarians like Apollonius Dyscolus, Aelius Herodianus, and Dionysius Thrax for Greek, and Priscian for Latin, to name the best known, but the grammatical studies of the medieval Trivium were just the ancient books, or summaries and scholia of them, more or less, going from basic, "do you know what letters and accents are? Do you know how letters make a word?" to the complexities of what we call philology. Pretty well consolidated during the Hellenistic period, just differences in quality of explanation or appropriateness for class study.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Gotcha. So the Trivium studies originated in antiquity when Latin and Ancient Greek were vernacular languages, and continued into the medieval era where they continued to be studied in Latin and/or Greek despite the vernaculars having shifted to Romance languages (or in places like Germany where the vernacular has never been Latin or Greek)?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Yes; the specifics w/r/t Greek fell by the wayside in the West in favor of Priscian's Latin Institutes of Grammar, but Priscian was already modeling his approach to Latin on the Greek grammarians. Maybe until the 15th century, that's the standard with little exceptions (Dante attempt to promote using the vernacular, and sone occasional vernacular grammars here and there), until I think the period of Erasmus and Luther having it out over Latin.
In Sanskrit it is said to be a Shastri (Scholar) one must study Pada-Vakya-Pramana i.e.,
Patanjali's Mahabhashya on Panini's Ashtadhyayi (Grammar, Semantics, Linguistics, Morphology, Etymology)
Shlokavarttika and Tantravarttika of Kumarila Bhatta (Exegesis, Syntax)
Tattvachintamani of Gangesha (Logic, Epistemology)
Then and only then you're allowed to undertake scholarly studies on Vedanta (The Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita, Brahma Sutras are the first three, the 'hard-nut' is Sriharsha's Khandana Khanda Khadya, Chitsukha's Tattvapradipika and the final crown gem: Madhusudana Saraswati's Advaita Siddhi)
I came across a couple of books which might help give an overview. They were called, "Maritanus Capella and the Seven Liberal Arts," by Stahl Johnson with H.L. Burge, Columbia press, in two volumes. Otherwise, just work at the subjects themselves.
Just look up what medieval guys read and build your own curriculum
Most is be are lost or in of the latin only
Learn latin
Start with the Greekz
Learn music
Learn math
Learn poetry prose and study lyricism and rap and songwriting
Befome a composer
A mathematician
A programmer and a logician
Partimento, plato, Aristotle, le bible, piano, drums, rap, number and set theory, music theory, geometry
What else u want?
Cosmology, the answers you seek are in the stars. Astrology, be familiar with each planet and the major constellations
Plato details this Iirc in the Republic when describing the training of the philosophers there's shit on YouTube about it too
Mastered partimento already
Took math up to diffeq back in college
Recommendations for learning poetry and prose?
Work as a software engineer, proficient with programming already.
Instead of a list of topics, do you have any specific resources/recommendations? Especially with the Trivium (grammar, logic, rhetoric) I don't have a lot of experience.
>Recommendations for learning poetry and prose?
Nta, but the most useful suggestions I can think of would be:
For prose,
Richard Lanham - Analyzing Prose
" - Style: An Anti-Textbook
" - Revising Prose
Ward Farnsworth - Any of his books on English rhetoric, metaphors, or style
Longinus - On the Sublime
Demetrius - On Style
Hermogenes of Tarsus - On Types of Style
These all discuss the mechanics of phrasing and diction, and even the ancient ones abound in examples.
For poetry,
John Hollander - Rhyme's Reason
Lewis Turco - The New Book of Forms
Alfred Corn - The Poem's Heartbeat
Robert Pinsky - The Sounds of Poetry
And maybe the NYR edition of The Stuffed Owl: An Anthology of Bad Verse, for clear examples of bad style. These otherwise cover the mechanics of metrical schemes.
All of these should be up on libgen if you don't wanna throw too much money down.
Sounds like you're missing having read lots of Greek lit, that's kind of important for this
You need a lot of plato to really engage with Aristotle's organon
How have you mastered partimento? I don't believe you post 4 measure of polyphony
https://voca.ro/17BhjC89C4iE
I learned by taking lessons with a teacher, reading books on it, and practicing extensively at the organ and piano. Have 3 phrases of a chorale harmonization
Yeah that's not polyphony
https://voca.ro/1ovS2i2RTciZ
Not skilled enough to play on a real piano, gotta use Musescore huh?
I'm actually about done learning it if I could just stop shitposting
Here's an improvised fugue. Not very polished but you can't say it's not polyphonic, it's literally a fugue.
https://voca.ro/17egoaXlO4Md
Salutations sir you are truly one of reason
here have this, it's how I've been studying 4 parts melodizing..
Have the full chorale with a more elaborate realization
https://voca.ro/1gxRl5a7VGVD
Don't care, it's 4 part harmony. I'm not going to bother with a fugue for a IQfy post
Trivium + Quadrivium was made for aspiring medieval philosophers, not for 21st century autodidacts. If you want to do it, go all the way. Learn Latin and Ancient Greek. Search out original medieval sources. Don't waste your time with ,
,
,
,
,
.
t. seething anti-trivium shill who doesn't believe in transferable wisdom
Cry more. The trivium was made for a specific civilization with specific interests, and a vastly different body of knowledge than what we have now. Either go all the way or quit the larp.
>NO SUCH THING AS SKILL TRANSFER!!!
Looks like your mediaeval education didn't teach you reading comprehension. Learn english before ever replying to me again, psued.
>ummmm... I thought my argument was smart... but you made it look dumb...
>must be a REEDIN COMPREEHENSHUN issue
>no I dont believe in implications and syllogisms, those are for medieval scholars and pseuds
>search out original sources
Why do that when
already named the key ones?
fair enough, i didn't check that comment
Strictly untrue; the Quadrivium is just the mathematical education of Plato's Republic book 7, and the Trivium is just the marriage of Aristotle's Organon + Roman rhetorical education (Cicero and Quintilian). Nothing about any of that prevents someone from using what are treated as tools for sharpening thought on contemporary subjects, or from looking to analogues.
Nonsense.
Unironically Catholic home schooling may be a good place to start resource wise, this one seems pretty comprehensive and even has most of the books free in PDFs
https://classicalliberalarts.com/library/#
I'm trying to learn the Seven Liberal Arts as well, good luck anon
Appreciate the tip, I'll check it out
Just read things you're interested in and don't bother larping as a mediaeval scholar.
t. seething modern lobotomized by the Dewey education system
None of the subjects in the trivium/quadrivium are bad in themselves (and indeed some, most notably grammar, are sorely needed), but studying music theory or astronomy just to tick a box when one is uninterested in either seems like a waste of time. What effect do you think the traditional liberal arts have on the soul that would warrant their study?
The ability to quantify and express everything you sense, at any resolution you choose.
Being a mediaeval scholar IS what he is interested in, clearly. moron.
https://archive.org/details/GuideToReadingWesternPhilosophy
Have fun
You're not really doing it unless you SLOG though Peter Lombard's Sentences and write your own commentary on them.
That's what all the medievals did. Aquinas wrote a commentary on the Sentences. Bonaventure wrote a commentary on the Sentences. Scotus wrote a commentary on the Sentences. Ockham, Eckhart, etc.
By the time you're done, reading Anselm and Abelard will be a breath of fresh air.
Sure, I got you :3
>How To Read a Book - Mortimer Adler [1940 version is better]
>Иcкyccтвo лoгики. Кaк читaть книги - Cepгeй Иннoкeнтьeвич Пoвapнин (if you know Russian)
>Reading Like a Writer: A Guide for People Who Love Books and For Those Who Want to Write Them - Francine Prose
>The Trivium
>A Mind for Numbers: How to Excel at Math and Science - Barbara Oakley
>The Elements of Style - WIlliam Strunk Jr. and E. B. White
>The Oxford’s Essential Guide to Writing - Thomas S. Kane
>Gorgias - Plato
>Poetics - Aristotle
>Rhetoric - Aristotle
>The Organon - Aristotle
>Brill’s Companion to Cicero, Oratory and Rhetoric - Edited by James M. May
>An Introduction to English Grammar - Sidney Greenbaum & Gerald Nelson
>Understanding English Grammar: A Linguistic Perspective - T. E. Payne
>Creative & Critical Thinking - W. Edgar Moore
>An Introduction to Logic - Irving Copi
>Logic as a Liberal Art: An Introduction to Rhetoric & Reasoning - R. E. Houser
>The Categories - Aristotle
>An Advanced English Grammar - Kittredge
>The Chicago Guide to Grammar, Usage, and Punctuation - Garner
>Oedipus Tyrannus - Sophocles
>The Interpretation of Dreams - Freud
>The Birth of Tragedy - Friedrich Nietzsche
>Socratic Logic - Peter Kreeft
>The Elements of Eloquence: How to Turn the Perfect English Phrase - Mark Forsyth
>Classical English Style - Ward Farnsworth
>Classical English Metaphor - Ward Farnsworth
>Classical English Rhetoric - Ward Farnsworth
>Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student - Edward P. J. Corbett
>Cicero de Oratore - Marcus Jullius Cicero
>Quintilian’s “Institutio Oratoria” - Loeb Classical Library, translated by H. E. Butler
Have you actually read all of these?
Martianus Capella and the Seven Liberal Arts
Didascalicon of Hugh of St Victor
Institutes of Divine and Secular Learning by Cassiodorus
test
did it work
This board is so fricking stupid. Reading these replies is like reading myself write long ago except I was never this ignorant and stupid. What a therapy for the ego.
Contribute or gtfo
No
>autofellating aristocrat soul LARPers love wojaks
It's never not hilarious seeing how people like this always go out of their way to make themselves look as moronic as possible. Triviumscum self-refute.
>Spams negativity in a self improvement thread
>Desperate to control optics
>Offers an opinion
>Expected to be taken seriously
>Posts a cartoon dog
negativity in a self improvement thread
That was my first post. God I wish the IP counter was working.
you're not fooling anybody
Trad education (ie till 1900 something depending on the area) was just 60 hours of Greek and Latin and 5 hours of math every week.
Let me guess, you NEED more?
You haven't read plato
What Plato haven’t I read? Trad education in Britain was not based on Plato.
>not based on Plato
is that why their empire collapsed within 50 years of said "trad education"
Show me one empire that hasn't collapsed.
I was asking myself this same question some months ago
I just decided I'll just read Capella's Marriage of Philology and Mercury
what does the grammar part of the trivium involve, at least historically? if it's anything to do with style as opposed to linguistics it seems like a waste of time
Grammar education historically pertained to grammar as we more or less recognize it in grade school, but with it resembling linguistics in its more advanced forms. Style was treated in the study of rhetoric.
Specifically, Latin and Greek grammar, no? Or was grammar of the vernacular languages taught as well?
This would have been back when Greek and Latin were the vernacular. Grammarians like Apollonius Dyscolus, Aelius Herodianus, and Dionysius Thrax for Greek, and Priscian for Latin, to name the best known, but the grammatical studies of the medieval Trivium were just the ancient books, or summaries and scholia of them, more or less, going from basic, "do you know what letters and accents are? Do you know how letters make a word?" to the complexities of what we call philology. Pretty well consolidated during the Hellenistic period, just differences in quality of explanation or appropriateness for class study.
Gotcha. So the Trivium studies originated in antiquity when Latin and Ancient Greek were vernacular languages, and continued into the medieval era where they continued to be studied in Latin and/or Greek despite the vernaculars having shifted to Romance languages (or in places like Germany where the vernacular has never been Latin or Greek)?
Yes; the specifics w/r/t Greek fell by the wayside in the West in favor of Priscian's Latin Institutes of Grammar, but Priscian was already modeling his approach to Latin on the Greek grammarians. Maybe until the 15th century, that's the standard with little exceptions (Dante attempt to promote using the vernacular, and sone occasional vernacular grammars here and there), until I think the period of Erasmus and Luther having it out over Latin.
https://www.hugodesaovitor.org.br/
>Short: Hegel Lectures on the History of Philosophy
>LONG: History of Philosophy, Copelstone
For the purposes of thought and material available, don't bother with Latin, just Greek.
Indian Trivium:
In Sanskrit it is said to be a Shastri (Scholar) one must study Pada-Vakya-Pramana i.e.,
Patanjali's Mahabhashya on Panini's Ashtadhyayi (Grammar, Semantics, Linguistics, Morphology, Etymology)
Shlokavarttika and Tantravarttika of Kumarila Bhatta (Exegesis, Syntax)
Tattvachintamani of Gangesha (Logic, Epistemology)
Then and only then you're allowed to undertake scholarly studies on Vedanta (The Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita, Brahma Sutras are the first three, the 'hard-nut' is Sriharsha's Khandana Khanda Khadya, Chitsukha's Tattvapradipika and the final crown gem: Madhusudana Saraswati's Advaita Siddhi)
I came across a couple of books which might help give an overview. They were called, "Maritanus Capella and the Seven Liberal Arts," by Stahl Johnson with H.L. Burge, Columbia press, in two volumes. Otherwise, just work at the subjects themselves.