Classical education - Trivium + Quadrivium

How do I learn the Trivium and Quadrivium as an autodidact? Book recommendations, online courses, etc

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Just look up what medieval guys read and build your own curriculum

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Most is be are lost or in of the latin only

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Learn latin

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Start with the Greekz
    Learn music
    Learn math
    Learn poetry prose and study lyricism and rap and songwriting
    Befome a composer
    A mathematician
    A programmer and a logician
    Partimento, plato, Aristotle, le bible, piano, drums, rap, number and set theory, music theory, geometry
    What else u want?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Cosmology, the answers you seek are in the stars. Astrology, be familiar with each planet and the major constellations
      Plato details this Iirc in the Republic when describing the training of the philosophers there's shit on YouTube about it too

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Mastered partimento already

      Took math up to diffeq back in college

      Recommendations for learning poetry and prose?

      Work as a software engineer, proficient with programming already.

      Instead of a list of topics, do you have any specific resources/recommendations? Especially with the Trivium (grammar, logic, rhetoric) I don't have a lot of experience.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Recommendations for learning poetry and prose?
        Nta, but the most useful suggestions I can think of would be:

        For prose,
        Richard Lanham - Analyzing Prose
        " - Style: An Anti-Textbook
        " - Revising Prose
        Ward Farnsworth - Any of his books on English rhetoric, metaphors, or style
        Longinus - On the Sublime
        Demetrius - On Style
        Hermogenes of Tarsus - On Types of Style

        These all discuss the mechanics of phrasing and diction, and even the ancient ones abound in examples.

        For poetry,
        John Hollander - Rhyme's Reason
        Lewis Turco - The New Book of Forms
        Alfred Corn - The Poem's Heartbeat
        Robert Pinsky - The Sounds of Poetry

        And maybe the NYR edition of The Stuffed Owl: An Anthology of Bad Verse, for clear examples of bad style. These otherwise cover the mechanics of metrical schemes.

        All of these should be up on libgen if you don't wanna throw too much money down.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Sounds like you're missing having read lots of Greek lit, that's kind of important for this
        You need a lot of plato to really engage with Aristotle's organon

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        How have you mastered partimento? I don't believe you post 4 measure of polyphony

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          https://voca.ro/17BhjC89C4iE
          I learned by taking lessons with a teacher, reading books on it, and practicing extensively at the organ and piano. Have 3 phrases of a chorale harmonization

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah that's not polyphony
            https://voca.ro/1ovS2i2RTciZ

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Not skilled enough to play on a real piano, gotta use Musescore huh?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I'm actually about done learning it if I could just stop shitposting

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Here's an improvised fugue. Not very polished but you can't say it's not polyphonic, it's literally a fugue.
            https://voca.ro/17egoaXlO4Md

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Salutations sir you are truly one of reason
            here have this, it's how I've been studying 4 parts melodizing..

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Have the full chorale with a more elaborate realization
            https://voca.ro/1gxRl5a7VGVD

            Yeah that's not polyphony
            https://voca.ro/1ovS2i2RTciZ

            Don't care, it's 4 part harmony. I'm not going to bother with a fugue for a IQfy post

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Trivium + Quadrivium was made for aspiring medieval philosophers, not for 21st century autodidacts. If you want to do it, go all the way. Learn Latin and Ancient Greek. Search out original medieval sources. Don't waste your time with ,

      Unironically Catholic home schooling may be a good place to start resource wise, this one seems pretty comprehensive and even has most of the books free in PDFs
      https://classicalliberalarts.com/library/#

      I'm trying to learn the Seven Liberal Arts as well, good luck anon

      ,

      >Recommendations for learning poetry and prose?
      Nta, but the most useful suggestions I can think of would be:

      For prose,
      Richard Lanham - Analyzing Prose
      " - Style: An Anti-Textbook
      " - Revising Prose
      Ward Farnsworth - Any of his books on English rhetoric, metaphors, or style
      Longinus - On the Sublime
      Demetrius - On Style
      Hermogenes of Tarsus - On Types of Style

      These all discuss the mechanics of phrasing and diction, and even the ancient ones abound in examples.

      For poetry,
      John Hollander - Rhyme's Reason
      Lewis Turco - The New Book of Forms
      Alfred Corn - The Poem's Heartbeat
      Robert Pinsky - The Sounds of Poetry

      And maybe the NYR edition of The Stuffed Owl: An Anthology of Bad Verse, for clear examples of bad style. These otherwise cover the mechanics of metrical schemes.

      All of these should be up on libgen if you don't wanna throw too much money down.

      ,

      https://i.imgur.com/xmrpjlL.png

      Sure, I got you :3
      >How To Read a Book - Mortimer Adler [1940 version is better]
      >Иcкyccтвo лoгики. Кaк читaть книги - Cepгeй Иннoкeнтьeвич Пoвapнин (if you know Russian)
      >Reading Like a Writer: A Guide for People Who Love Books and For Those Who Want to Write Them - Francine Prose

      >The Trivium
      >A Mind for Numbers: How to Excel at Math and Science - Barbara Oakley
      >The Elements of Style - WIlliam Strunk Jr. and E. B. White
      >The Oxford’s Essential Guide to Writing - Thomas S. Kane
      >Gorgias - Plato
      >Poetics - Aristotle
      >Rhetoric - Aristotle
      >The Organon - Aristotle
      >Brill’s Companion to Cicero, Oratory and Rhetoric - Edited by James M. May
      >An Introduction to English Grammar - Sidney Greenbaum & Gerald Nelson
      >Understanding English Grammar: A Linguistic Perspective - T. E. Payne
      >Creative & Critical Thinking - W. Edgar Moore
      >An Introduction to Logic - Irving Copi
      >Logic as a Liberal Art: An Introduction to Rhetoric & Reasoning - R. E. Houser
      >The Categories - Aristotle
      >An Advanced English Grammar - Kittredge
      >The Chicago Guide to Grammar, Usage, and Punctuation - Garner
      >Oedipus Tyrannus - Sophocles
      >The Interpretation of Dreams - Freud
      >The Birth of Tragedy - Friedrich Nietzsche
      >Socratic Logic - Peter Kreeft
      >The Elements of Eloquence: How to Turn the Perfect English Phrase - Mark Forsyth
      >Classical English Style - Ward Farnsworth
      >Classical English Metaphor - Ward Farnsworth
      >Classical English Rhetoric - Ward Farnsworth
      >Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student - Edward P. J. Corbett
      >Cicero de Oratore - Marcus Jullius Cicero
      >Quintilian’s “Institutio Oratoria” - Loeb Classical Library, translated by H. E. Butler

      ,

      https://i.imgur.com/UzKLfXj.jpg

      ,

      https://i.imgur.com/lUofjXN.jpg

      .

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        t. seething anti-trivium shill who doesn't believe in transferable wisdom

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Cry more. The trivium was made for a specific civilization with specific interests, and a vastly different body of knowledge than what we have now. Either go all the way or quit the larp.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >NO SUCH THING AS SKILL TRANSFER!!!

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Looks like your mediaeval education didn't teach you reading comprehension. Learn english before ever replying to me again, psued.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >ummmm... I thought my argument was smart... but you made it look dumb...
            >must be a REEDIN COMPREEHENSHUN issue
            >no I dont believe in implications and syllogisms, those are for medieval scholars and pseuds

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >search out original sources
        Why do that when

        Martianus Capella and the Seven Liberal Arts
        Didascalicon of Hugh of St Victor
        Institutes of Divine and Secular Learning by Cassiodorus

        already named the key ones?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          fair enough, i didn't check that comment

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Strictly untrue; the Quadrivium is just the mathematical education of Plato's Republic book 7, and the Trivium is just the marriage of Aristotle's Organon + Roman rhetorical education (Cicero and Quintilian). Nothing about any of that prevents someone from using what are treated as tools for sharpening thought on contemporary subjects, or from looking to analogues.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Nonsense.

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Unironically Catholic home schooling may be a good place to start resource wise, this one seems pretty comprehensive and even has most of the books free in PDFs
    https://classicalliberalarts.com/library/#

    I'm trying to learn the Seven Liberal Arts as well, good luck anon

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Appreciate the tip, I'll check it out

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Just read things you're interested in and don't bother larping as a mediaeval scholar.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      t. seething modern lobotomized by the Dewey education system

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        None of the subjects in the trivium/quadrivium are bad in themselves (and indeed some, most notably grammar, are sorely needed), but studying music theory or astronomy just to tick a box when one is uninterested in either seems like a waste of time. What effect do you think the traditional liberal arts have on the soul that would warrant their study?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The ability to quantify and express everything you sense, at any resolution you choose.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Being a mediaeval scholar IS what he is interested in, clearly. moron.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    https://archive.org/details/GuideToReadingWesternPhilosophy

    Have fun

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You're not really doing it unless you SLOG though Peter Lombard's Sentences and write your own commentary on them.

    That's what all the medievals did. Aquinas wrote a commentary on the Sentences. Bonaventure wrote a commentary on the Sentences. Scotus wrote a commentary on the Sentences. Ockham, Eckhart, etc.

    By the time you're done, reading Anselm and Abelard will be a breath of fresh air.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Sure, I got you :3
    >How To Read a Book - Mortimer Adler [1940 version is better]
    >Иcкyccтвo лoгики. Кaк читaть книги - Cepгeй Иннoкeнтьeвич Пoвapнин (if you know Russian)
    >Reading Like a Writer: A Guide for People Who Love Books and For Those Who Want to Write Them - Francine Prose

    >The Trivium
    >A Mind for Numbers: How to Excel at Math and Science - Barbara Oakley
    >The Elements of Style - WIlliam Strunk Jr. and E. B. White
    >The Oxford’s Essential Guide to Writing - Thomas S. Kane
    >Gorgias - Plato
    >Poetics - Aristotle
    >Rhetoric - Aristotle
    >The Organon - Aristotle
    >Brill’s Companion to Cicero, Oratory and Rhetoric - Edited by James M. May
    >An Introduction to English Grammar - Sidney Greenbaum & Gerald Nelson
    >Understanding English Grammar: A Linguistic Perspective - T. E. Payne
    >Creative & Critical Thinking - W. Edgar Moore
    >An Introduction to Logic - Irving Copi
    >Logic as a Liberal Art: An Introduction to Rhetoric & Reasoning - R. E. Houser
    >The Categories - Aristotle
    >An Advanced English Grammar - Kittredge
    >The Chicago Guide to Grammar, Usage, and Punctuation - Garner
    >Oedipus Tyrannus - Sophocles
    >The Interpretation of Dreams - Freud
    >The Birth of Tragedy - Friedrich Nietzsche
    >Socratic Logic - Peter Kreeft
    >The Elements of Eloquence: How to Turn the Perfect English Phrase - Mark Forsyth
    >Classical English Style - Ward Farnsworth
    >Classical English Metaphor - Ward Farnsworth
    >Classical English Rhetoric - Ward Farnsworth
    >Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student - Edward P. J. Corbett
    >Cicero de Oratore - Marcus Jullius Cicero
    >Quintilian’s “Institutio Oratoria” - Loeb Classical Library, translated by H. E. Butler

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Have you actually read all of these?

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Martianus Capella and the Seven Liberal Arts
    Didascalicon of Hugh of St Victor
    Institutes of Divine and Secular Learning by Cassiodorus

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    test

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      did it work

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    This board is so fricking stupid. Reading these replies is like reading myself write long ago except I was never this ignorant and stupid. What a therapy for the ego.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Contribute or gtfo

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        No

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >autofellating aristocrat soul LARPers love wojaks
    It's never not hilarious seeing how people like this always go out of their way to make themselves look as moronic as possible. Triviumscum self-refute.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Spams negativity in a self improvement thread
      >Desperate to control optics
      >Offers an opinion
      >Expected to be taken seriously
      >Posts a cartoon dog

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        negativity in a self improvement thread
        That was my first post. God I wish the IP counter was working.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      negativity in a self improvement thread
      That was my first post. God I wish the IP counter was working.

      you're not fooling anybody

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Trad education (ie till 1900 something depending on the area) was just 60 hours of Greek and Latin and 5 hours of math every week.
    Let me guess, you NEED more?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You haven't read plato

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        What Plato haven’t I read? Trad education in Britain was not based on Plato.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >not based on Plato
          is that why their empire collapsed within 50 years of said "trad education"

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Show me one empire that hasn't collapsed.

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I was asking myself this same question some months ago

    I just decided I'll just read Capella's Marriage of Philology and Mercury

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    what does the grammar part of the trivium involve, at least historically? if it's anything to do with style as opposed to linguistics it seems like a waste of time

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Grammar education historically pertained to grammar as we more or less recognize it in grade school, but with it resembling linguistics in its more advanced forms. Style was treated in the study of rhetoric.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Specifically, Latin and Greek grammar, no? Or was grammar of the vernacular languages taught as well?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          This would have been back when Greek and Latin were the vernacular. Grammarians like Apollonius Dyscolus, Aelius Herodianus, and Dionysius Thrax for Greek, and Priscian for Latin, to name the best known, but the grammatical studies of the medieval Trivium were just the ancient books, or summaries and scholia of them, more or less, going from basic, "do you know what letters and accents are? Do you know how letters make a word?" to the complexities of what we call philology. Pretty well consolidated during the Hellenistic period, just differences in quality of explanation or appropriateness for class study.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Gotcha. So the Trivium studies originated in antiquity when Latin and Ancient Greek were vernacular languages, and continued into the medieval era where they continued to be studied in Latin and/or Greek despite the vernaculars having shifted to Romance languages (or in places like Germany where the vernacular has never been Latin or Greek)?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yes; the specifics w/r/t Greek fell by the wayside in the West in favor of Priscian's Latin Institutes of Grammar, but Priscian was already modeling his approach to Latin on the Greek grammarians. Maybe until the 15th century, that's the standard with little exceptions (Dante attempt to promote using the vernacular, and sone occasional vernacular grammars here and there), until I think the period of Erasmus and Luther having it out over Latin.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    https://www.hugodesaovitor.org.br/

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Short: Hegel Lectures on the History of Philosophy
    >LONG: History of Philosophy, Copelstone

    For the purposes of thought and material available, don't bother with Latin, just Greek.

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Indian Trivium:

    In Sanskrit it is said to be a Shastri (Scholar) one must study Pada-Vakya-Pramana i.e.,

    Patanjali's Mahabhashya on Panini's Ashtadhyayi (Grammar, Semantics, Linguistics, Morphology, Etymology)

    Shlokavarttika and Tantravarttika of Kumarila Bhatta (Exegesis, Syntax)

    Tattvachintamani of Gangesha (Logic, Epistemology)

    Then and only then you're allowed to undertake scholarly studies on Vedanta (The Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita, Brahma Sutras are the first three, the 'hard-nut' is Sriharsha's Khandana Khanda Khadya, Chitsukha's Tattvapradipika and the final crown gem: Madhusudana Saraswati's Advaita Siddhi)

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I came across a couple of books which might help give an overview. They were called, "Maritanus Capella and the Seven Liberal Arts," by Stahl Johnson with H.L. Burge, Columbia press, in two volumes. Otherwise, just work at the subjects themselves.

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