I am so tired of "life after death" being automatically associated with religion and metaphysics. Its tells me right away that I'm dealing with a small-time thinker.
The material answer for continuation of conscious processes after brain death is WE DON'T KNOW!
Disregarding any metaphysical presuppositions, the "self" if we assume it stems from biology (somehow) is really just an illusory fiction so the most rational "naturalistic" explanation of what happens after death is that there are just more conscious states that occur afterwards in some other form that thinks of itself as a different "self" - sort of akin to how the Buddhists view rebirth
Like picture how it felt to be born and start forming memories and an identity, once you die you'll just get booted back to that without any memory of it happening the first time
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sure, or it continues whole-hog and we know exactly whats going on, or it does this, or it does that. The point is, its is so difficult to discuss this with other materialists because they think we've solved death. Its simply not true. You can't probe a subjective experience that renders the subject inaccessible to the observer. The answer will forever be we don't know.
I can only guess that they're not familiar with the inherent strangeness of infinities.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I can only guess that they're not familiar with the inherent strangeness of infinities.
Probably, yeah, being a finite entity and trying to wrap your head around infinity is like jamming a square peg into a round hole, it's just not gonna compute and the best you can get are piecemeal analogies from extremely perceptive philosophers or mystics
2 years ago
Anonymous
They're going to have to get wise. So many great minds thought they were standing in a steady-state universe. You damn near need throw out all of the books based on that alone.
Infinities show up in the probabilistic math of quantum states. Infinities are on the table when we talk about where the universe is going and where it has been. It used to scare me until I realized classical notions of good and bad, pain and pleasure, right and wrong, and basically all utilitarian math fricking shatters against the concept.
How can you even consider such idiotic thoughts such as life after death .People get into accidents and their personalities change forever.Just a bit of trauma in their brain irrevocably changes them and you think that after the vessel of your concioussness that is your body deteriorates, there is something that's left?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes, the substrate can be damaged and eventually dies. What we don't know, what we can't know, is if a continuation of the pattern elsewhere feels like a separate pov or is literally you. Its an open problem in philosophy of mind. Its the transporter problem, and if you have an answer, you must show your work.
This leaves you open for recurrence. And if it isn't true, there are other theories, all firmly rooted in materialism.
2 years ago
Anonymous
moron.
>Experience qualia as a conscious being >The mechanisms that allow you to experience those qualia degenerate to the point where they can no longer avail consciousness of qualia >You stop experiencing qualia >The end
2 years ago
Anonymous
>you stop experiencing qualia >don't account for you experiencing it in the first place >don't account for you being recreated through a similar mechanism
Amazing how blind a scum can be. Well done lad, you have been led to believe the Universe is more moronic than you. Wow, such bravery to not have responsibility. Don't worry, we are going to die and find out.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's possible but it's not a given. We simply don't know what creates consciousness and what makes your consciousness yours. It's very possible that there is a time component and a being that is, atom for atom, exactly like you but in a trillion years time, will not be "you".
2 years ago
Anonymous
Reflexive non-dual awareness.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Just a bit of trauma in their brain irrevocably changes them
That's the mind you dumb frick. Consciousness transcends the mind
We do know. Your physical self dissolves and is incorporated into other physical forms
Your symbolic self dissolves and is incorporated into other physical forms
What you call you - The locus of control is gone, like the flame when the candle dies
We just don't know is a cop out
2 years ago
Anonymous
You as you are came from chaotic forces. All that happens when you die is that the potential goes back to 1, and given an infinite amount of time, the potential can be realized. Its not cope because it could be a very bad thing. Its simply the consequence of materialism over infinite time.
2 years ago
Anonymous
This. Whatever sequence of events that led to us existing will invariably happen again. We're all going to make it.
>A Dialogue between two Infants in the womb concerning the state of this world, might handsomely illustrate our ignorance of the next, whereof methinks we yet discourse in Plato's Den, and are but Embryon Philosophers.
Your pic related is the type of thing shook up pussies who view the world as a threat to themselves end up doing. It's also what the more impotent types of cowering rejects obsess over, like the type saving screenshots of 'really scary' things to post online in a doubly limp attempt at justifying their cowardice. At least that dude accomplished something: he's the pornstar and you're still the loser at home jacking it over sensationalist media as if it's a revelation. I didn't say life was perfect or enjoyable---more implying that you're coping with being a chicken by pretending cowardice is the most disillusioned way of viewing the world.
>ungodly things happen to innocent things routinely >"I know, I'll call him a pussy!"
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nta, but you have no clue whether or not another level of perception is innocent. You have no idea. The fact that you're willing to grasp at straws to be a "hardcore skeptic" reveals all that bystanders of this conversation need to know about you.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm working with what I have.
If you think there's more to it, and it can't be reduced to suffering, you're right. The thing I'm trying to get across is that its not love. To break your dick off backwards trying to work-in the brutal outcroppings of whatever the forces at work are as some after-effect of an at-its-heart benevolent force is just dishonest.
I want everyone to start from the premise that whatever is going on, its doesn't seem to care about our well-being.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>it doesn't care about our well-being
Speak for yourself. I'm bouta hop in my lambo ghini and get a double bj from two smokin' hot babes while smoking a PCP-laced blunt and doing 200 down the highway. Better luck next life dork
2 years ago
Anonymous
And I'm 'bout to get an awkward hj from a confused theater major in my Ford Focus, then he's buying us McGriddles. What of it?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Makes complete sense that you, a materialist, are also a homosexual lol
It may sound cynical but the only reason why this sort of story feels so absurd is that the very times we live in are nonsensical. There is absolutely no way that something this stupid - having your child die because you forgot to take him out of the car - would happen in a pre-industrial society. Yes, I know what you're thinking: you saw a branch off a tree and your son get splattered, that's also a tragic accident that's fairly stupid. But it's a more complex kind of stupidity than this. I've heard of entire families dying in their sleep because of a brazier. OK That's also stupid, but it somehow fits in the design of life better than "I forgot my kid in the car on a summer day and he died".
By the way this shit is getting pushed so hard because they want to put internet-connected cameras into every car for "safety reasons".
>To them, life is degenerate or problematic, no ifs ands or buts.
I wouldn't say life, but society, the decadent self-serving consumerist society that Baby Boomer's helped bring about and thrust us into, which at this point is also rapidly decaying. The severe social atomization that is occurring is a clear indication of entropy not being overcome by a willful ordering of man.
You will read Marx next.
Everything will be about the proles agianst the bourgeoise
Then you'll read Evola.
Everything will be about traditionalism and the fight against modernity.
Then you'll read Freud.
Everything will be about psychological compensation.
Then you'll read .........
>belief in immaterial soul is just cope for mortality and a desire to preserve the self >Buddhists believe that nothing is permanent and you don't get your memories back unless perhaps unconsciously in the case of Buddha reincarnations
who are the copium addicts now? are you an atheist because you fear reincarnation?
I have been thinking about death recently and have come to the conclusion that death is not something external to the individual but a unique and private affair. Making death into something public and common (e.g., death in general instead of my death) is not only untrue but alienating.
I found the whole psychoanalysis angle really forced and unbelievable. Could barely get through the child anal-retentive disorder but with DEATH bits in the beginning. But that said I do think he's on with something, just not in such a specific wannabe Freud manner. I think the two contradictory natures idea is solid.
Rather than specifically death, I can see most everyone is afraid of not being "special" which he kind of suggests before going back to the death fear. That they feel it intuitively in how they have a sort of infinite and imaginative side to consciousness and being. And further everyone has problems reconciling this feeling and hope with the counter proposition of a material uncaring universe. You can see it unconsciously in anyone that's ever uttered the phrase of "it's not fair!" to personal misfortune. And even the suicidally depressed still fear humiliation and/or resent the idea of their life being a joke - which doesn't make sense if they truly had no attachments or fears of loss of something in the self.
My problem with materialism is that it postulates a universe completely at odds with how we experience it and attempts to make a person into an object instead of a subject. Rather than the universe being devoid of personality or meaning, to the one full of meaning and personality the universe appears personal and meaningful. And who should contradict him? Materialism alienates the individual from his world when it tries to discover the world's essence by "getting behind things." Not only is such an attempt null and void because there is no objective world, it negates the qualitative richness of subjectivity and stops a person from actualizing their creative power.
>"FREUD FAINTED TWICE BECAUSE HE DOESN'T BELIEVE IN GOD!!!" >"Well, yes, Jung also fainted and he was a fervent believer in God, what's your point?"
Becker was such a hack it's unbelievable.
Anyone who does not believe in life after death ought to be pursuing careers in justice and changing justice to capture and torture criminals until they die painfully for the sins they commit against their fellow man, because this very day, in some country you've never thought of, or even right here, a man is raping some 6 year old, who will be killed eventually and he will 100% get away with it and live long enough to die of complications from old age.
Known criminal gang members should be murdered in the streets in broad daylight and the police should offer reward.
>Death BAD!
>Death SCAWY!
Brainless tier take
I am so tired of "life after death" being automatically associated with religion and metaphysics. Its tells me right away that I'm dealing with a small-time thinker.
The material answer for continuation of conscious processes after brain death is WE DON'T KNOW!
Disregarding any metaphysical presuppositions, the "self" if we assume it stems from biology (somehow) is really just an illusory fiction so the most rational "naturalistic" explanation of what happens after death is that there are just more conscious states that occur afterwards in some other form that thinks of itself as a different "self" - sort of akin to how the Buddhists view rebirth
Like picture how it felt to be born and start forming memories and an identity, once you die you'll just get booted back to that without any memory of it happening the first time
Sure, or it continues whole-hog and we know exactly whats going on, or it does this, or it does that. The point is, its is so difficult to discuss this with other materialists because they think we've solved death. Its simply not true. You can't probe a subjective experience that renders the subject inaccessible to the observer. The answer will forever be we don't know.
I can only guess that they're not familiar with the inherent strangeness of infinities.
>I can only guess that they're not familiar with the inherent strangeness of infinities.
Probably, yeah, being a finite entity and trying to wrap your head around infinity is like jamming a square peg into a round hole, it's just not gonna compute and the best you can get are piecemeal analogies from extremely perceptive philosophers or mystics
They're going to have to get wise. So many great minds thought they were standing in a steady-state universe. You damn near need throw out all of the books based on that alone.
Infinities show up in the probabilistic math of quantum states. Infinities are on the table when we talk about where the universe is going and where it has been. It used to scare me until I realized classical notions of good and bad, pain and pleasure, right and wrong, and basically all utilitarian math fricking shatters against the concept.
I know.
How can you even consider such idiotic thoughts such as life after death .People get into accidents and their personalities change forever.Just a bit of trauma in their brain irrevocably changes them and you think that after the vessel of your concioussness that is your body deteriorates, there is something that's left?
Yes, the substrate can be damaged and eventually dies. What we don't know, what we can't know, is if a continuation of the pattern elsewhere feels like a separate pov or is literally you. Its an open problem in philosophy of mind. Its the transporter problem, and if you have an answer, you must show your work.
This leaves you open for recurrence. And if it isn't true, there are other theories, all firmly rooted in materialism.
moron.
>Experience qualia as a conscious being
>The mechanisms that allow you to experience those qualia degenerate to the point where they can no longer avail consciousness of qualia
>You stop experiencing qualia
>The end
>you stop experiencing qualia
>don't account for you experiencing it in the first place
>don't account for you being recreated through a similar mechanism
Amazing how blind a scum can be. Well done lad, you have been led to believe the Universe is more moronic than you. Wow, such bravery to not have responsibility. Don't worry, we are going to die and find out.
It's possible but it's not a given. We simply don't know what creates consciousness and what makes your consciousness yours. It's very possible that there is a time component and a being that is, atom for atom, exactly like you but in a trillion years time, will not be "you".
Reflexive non-dual awareness.
>Just a bit of trauma in their brain irrevocably changes them
That's the mind you dumb frick. Consciousness transcends the mind
We do know. Your physical self dissolves and is incorporated into other physical forms
Your symbolic self dissolves and is incorporated into other physical forms
What you call you - The locus of control is gone, like the flame when the candle dies
We just don't know is a cop out
You as you are came from chaotic forces. All that happens when you die is that the potential goes back to 1, and given an infinite amount of time, the potential can be realized. Its not cope because it could be a very bad thing. Its simply the consequence of materialism over infinite time.
This. Whatever sequence of events that led to us existing will invariably happen again. We're all going to make it.
>A Dialogue between two Infants in the womb concerning the state of this world, might handsomely illustrate our ignorance of the next, whereof methinks we yet discourse in Plato's Den, and are but Embryon Philosophers.
Yes, I'm scared of death.
Anyone who isn't scared of death is insane.
If you can't accept that you're going to die and still or moreso enjoy, as Kazantzakis says, the brief luminosity of life, you're a pussy.
Yeah, just enjoy the ride, bro!
Luminous beings are we, just like Yoda said!
Your pic related is the type of thing shook up pussies who view the world as a threat to themselves end up doing. It's also what the more impotent types of cowering rejects obsess over, like the type saving screenshots of 'really scary' things to post online in a doubly limp attempt at justifying their cowardice. At least that dude accomplished something: he's the pornstar and you're still the loser at home jacking it over sensationalist media as if it's a revelation. I didn't say life was perfect or enjoyable---more implying that you're coping with being a chicken by pretending cowardice is the most disillusioned way of viewing the world.
>ungodly things happen to innocent things routinely
>"I know, I'll call him a pussy!"
Nta, but you have no clue whether or not another level of perception is innocent. You have no idea. The fact that you're willing to grasp at straws to be a "hardcore skeptic" reveals all that bystanders of this conversation need to know about you.
I'm working with what I have.
If you think there's more to it, and it can't be reduced to suffering, you're right. The thing I'm trying to get across is that its not love. To break your dick off backwards trying to work-in the brutal outcroppings of whatever the forces at work are as some after-effect of an at-its-heart benevolent force is just dishonest.
I want everyone to start from the premise that whatever is going on, its doesn't seem to care about our well-being.
>it doesn't care about our well-being
Speak for yourself. I'm bouta hop in my lambo ghini and get a double bj from two smokin' hot babes while smoking a PCP-laced blunt and doing 200 down the highway. Better luck next life dork
And I'm 'bout to get an awkward hj from a confused theater major in my Ford Focus, then he's buying us McGriddles. What of it?
Makes complete sense that you, a materialist, are also a homosexual lol
It may sound cynical but the only reason why this sort of story feels so absurd is that the very times we live in are nonsensical. There is absolutely no way that something this stupid - having your child die because you forgot to take him out of the car - would happen in a pre-industrial society. Yes, I know what you're thinking: you saw a branch off a tree and your son get splattered, that's also a tragic accident that's fairly stupid. But it's a more complex kind of stupidity than this. I've heard of entire families dying in their sleep because of a brazier. OK That's also stupid, but it somehow fits in the design of life better than "I forgot my kid in the car on a summer day and he died".
By the way this shit is getting pushed so hard because they want to put internet-connected cameras into every car for "safety reasons".
>If you can't accept that you're going to die and still or moreso enjoy, as Kazantzakis says, the brief luminosity of life, you're a pussy.
That'd explain millennials, then. To them, life is degenerate or problematic, no ifs ands or buts.
Shut up boomer
>To them, life is degenerate or problematic, no ifs ands or buts.
I wouldn't say life, but society, the decadent self-serving consumerist society that Baby Boomer's helped bring about and thrust us into, which at this point is also rapidly decaying. The severe social atomization that is occurring is a clear indication of entropy not being overcome by a willful ordering of man.
incel
No, because if you affirm this, you are a hylic
https://adolfstalin.substack.com/p/guy-debord-and-demiurgehtml
You will read Marx next.
Everything will be about the proles agianst the bourgeoise
Then you'll read Evola.
Everything will be about traditionalism and the fight against modernity.
Then you'll read Freud.
Everything will be about psychological compensation.
Then you'll read .........
Then you'll read Denial of Death and realize none of that quelled your mortality.
to me that book signals the decline of IQfy. first time i read a IQfy meme that was fricking dumb.
"Everything is X" is always wrong, including this statement.
Yes
No, not everything is a cope.
it is if you think it is, and it's not if you don't
What?
cope
yes
>picrel, yes
>belief in immaterial soul is just cope for mortality and a desire to preserve the self
>Buddhists believe that nothing is permanent and you don't get your memories back unless perhaps unconsciously in the case of Buddha reincarnations
who are the copium addicts now? are you an atheist because you fear reincarnation?
Pain is to pleasure as death is to life
I have been thinking about death recently and have come to the conclusion that death is not something external to the individual but a unique and private affair. Making death into something public and common (e.g., death in general instead of my death) is not only untrue but alienating.
Imagine how much of a privileged piece of shit you have to be to be afraid of death
I found the whole psychoanalysis angle really forced and unbelievable. Could barely get through the child anal-retentive disorder but with DEATH bits in the beginning. But that said I do think he's on with something, just not in such a specific wannabe Freud manner. I think the two contradictory natures idea is solid.
Rather than specifically death, I can see most everyone is afraid of not being "special" which he kind of suggests before going back to the death fear. That they feel it intuitively in how they have a sort of infinite and imaginative side to consciousness and being. And further everyone has problems reconciling this feeling and hope with the counter proposition of a material uncaring universe. You can see it unconsciously in anyone that's ever uttered the phrase of "it's not fair!" to personal misfortune. And even the suicidally depressed still fear humiliation and/or resent the idea of their life being a joke - which doesn't make sense if they truly had no attachments or fears of loss of something in the self.
My problem with materialism is that it postulates a universe completely at odds with how we experience it and attempts to make a person into an object instead of a subject. Rather than the universe being devoid of personality or meaning, to the one full of meaning and personality the universe appears personal and meaningful. And who should contradict him? Materialism alienates the individual from his world when it tries to discover the world's essence by "getting behind things." Not only is such an attempt null and void because there is no objective world, it negates the qualitative richness of subjectivity and stops a person from actualizing their creative power.
>"FREUD FAINTED TWICE BECAUSE HE DOESN'T BELIEVE IN GOD!!!"
>"Well, yes, Jung also fainted and he was a fervent believer in God, what's your point?"
Becker was such a hack it's unbelievable.
>Everything is just cope isn't it?
No, not everything is a cope.
Anyone who does not believe in life after death ought to be pursuing careers in justice and changing justice to capture and torture criminals until they die painfully for the sins they commit against their fellow man, because this very day, in some country you've never thought of, or even right here, a man is raping some 6 year old, who will be killed eventually and he will 100% get away with it and live long enough to die of complications from old age.
Known criminal gang members should be murdered in the streets in broad daylight and the police should offer reward.