>DDR5
Is it a scam? Why do I hear that it requires 30+ seconds to boot with DDR5? Hard to believe that's true because it's slower than 10 years old PCs.
>DDR5
>DDR5
Is it a scam? Why do I hear that it requires 30+ seconds to boot with DDR5? Hard to believe that's true because it's slower than 10 years old PCs.
All technology since 2014 has been a scam
Do you recall where you learned that?
lol its insane that people still act like this outside of reddit
>asking for evidence: LE BAD!
the problem comes from asking a source on something that's intuitively obvious.
Someone here told me CPU and GPU companies started raising TDP to milk extra performance outta their hardware (vs real innovation like in the past). If I recall correctly, he said anything after 12th gen Intel or Fermi (or Pascal) is a scam. Might that happen to line up with what you know?
While Intel has indeed massively ramped up its power usage in an effort to remain competitive with AMD, the same is not really true for Nvidia or AMD. Both companies most recent chips will easily outperform their predecessor on the same power budget.
>muh opinion is inherently obvious and true because I believe it
>evidence and supporting data is le reddit
>intuitively obvious
There is no such thing.
thats because windows has to boot on the tpm chip for remote access by feds if you want a real secure machine you should stick with talos II
You can disable it in BIOS, but I kept getting random BSODs so I left it on.
Disable what? XMP/EXPO?
Fast boot
memory training
DDR5 takes longer to train the memory because it's so densly packed on the chip
this is also why it has built in ECC modules, becayse it's much more likely to suffer bitflips so the ECC has to check the data in the DRAM chip to ensure it is still valid
but DDR5 is significantly faster than even top end DDR4. DDR5 starts at 5000MTs which is utterly insane, that is faster than most CPUs. also, DDR5 DRAM chips all run in effectively dual-channel mode per chip, meaning each chip can be accessed from two places at once, effectively halving any delay in memory checks.
the only downside is the training but that only happens once during boot and in theory shouldn't need to happen again unless you tweak the timings or something. memory training is just the process of organising the chips to run more effectively in your given system.
Wait, so it happened once? Everyone says it happens every time you turn on your PC. Or is there a fix for this? I honestly can't comprehend that someone would be ok with such long boot times.
AMD does some stupid shit on each boot and can take 10 to 20 min to boot.
It's not really a problem. I usually just go to the toilet and make some coffee after I boot my PC. It's usually almost done by the time I get back.
It's supposed to only happen once, but in the world of garbage hardware running ontop of garbage hardware running garbage firmware reality turns out to be different then what was promised and for some people it runs on every boot
For me it happens every time I completely unplug my PC (it starts once for about a minute, restarts and then boots normally in about 30s), but after that is done, it only does a normal boot.
It still takes about 30s to boot, idk why, but it doesn't bother me much
Of course it doesn't bother anyone because you can't and don't want to return it and there's no
other choice but to use it.
It happens to me every reboot, even without poweroff, even if I disable memory training. But maybe that's because I have a MSI Tomahawk X670E. Everyone faints hwne they hear I bought an MSI motherboard
MSI is bottom of the chinesium barrel chinkshit, costs far too much for what's basically a no-name brand synonymous with DONHUA JINGLONG FACTORY GOOD BEST PC GAME EPIC MOTHERBOARD FOR HIGH SPEED AND BEST PERFORMANCE listings on aliexpress
At least it has plenty of PCIE slots. Yes, I need all 4 of them
>4 is a lor for an x-series chipset
bro...
Appreciate, but not buying Intel
sorry thay's not fair, x299 is a workstation chipaet, gigabyte doesn't have any x670- OH WAIT THEY DO
MSICHINKS ON SUICIDE WATCH
>we will never know what board is this
ok keep your secrets gay
Is Asrock better? It funny, because I've heard so much shit about Gigabyte and Asus.
I'm upgrading my wife's rig from Asrock B550 Phantom Gaming 4. Compared to the MSI X670E, it's rock solid and blazing fast
Thanks. I'll get Asrock for my wife's son.
Thats what I get the bulls when they come over
asrock are ok but don't fall for their lowend shit. they do good WS stuff and asrockrack make great server boards
asus is a gamer meme, overpriced but it's at least passable. they used to be a lot betterz these days they just make flashy shit and charge a lot more for the same tier of product because "it has gamer lights" or "it has matte black everywhere"
gigabyte is where it's at
May I ask what exactly is a base of your judgement? Brand loyalty or personal experience?
i build PCs for a living and provide warranty support, so I see all the faults. MSI is by far the worst with the most RMAs and misc faults
gigabyte has given me the least trouble and are usually some of the cheapest to order, and since i don't price differently for vranding i make the most margin lol but seriously it's the least amount of issues. Asus is also fine mostly but just overpriced. asrock i onky really use their high end stuff eg asrockrack, their consumer stuff never has the right features I need.
i also use gigabyte personally in my desktops and servers and haven't had any major issues except one DoA board. Asus is also fine mostly but just overpriced.
I'll keep your info in mind for my next build (it will be soon). Thanks.
I have an ASUS ProArt X670E with 64GB of RAM.
It's also slow: about a minute to POST, every time.
Its not a huge issue but it's annoying enough I leave my PC running 24/7
Intel or AMD?
AMD
Same but with a ProArt 570X
really? I got an msi board. No problems so far.
i fricking hate this shit so much
amd has something called memory context restore
this should, in theory work automatically i.e. the first couple of boots are slow to train, then it remember the profile and boots are faster
in practice, with my mobo, this setting is worthless when set to auto
i have to manually force it on
but if you change your hardware and forget to then turn it off, you'll keep bsod'ing (i hate to reset cmos once while learning this the hard way) because the old training profile is no longer valid and needs retraining
>amd has something called memory context restore
thanks, firmware time went from about a minute to 12 seconds
this is good enough for me
>Everyone says
You should check what motherboards they have, for years now MSI have taken like 40 seconds to boot on amd it's a problem that only happens with MSI boards. I have stopped buying them
happens everytime the cmos is cleared or it when detects an error during initialisation
Yo momma can also be accessed through two places at once.
Other than that, many thanks for the extensive explanation, anon.
What do you think the DDR stands for? It is 2.5MT, not 5MT.
no, it's 5000MTs, falsly advertised as 5000MHz. it's more fair to call them 2500MHz
if they were actually 5000MHz, it would be 10,000MTs, as there are two transfers per hz not the other way around, which you should know given you expressly called it Double Data Rate.
if it was 2500MTs as you say, they would be 1250MHz
Who is falsely advertising it? Its only a colloquial issue that people confuse MT/s for true clock rate.
The number stands for generation of the standard.
Wrong, kid. Memory training has a been thing since Sandy Bridge/Zen. It always take time to do. It just impatient spastics that are making a fuss over it.
All factory overclock DIMMs take longer to train. The gap has grown with DDR5 because they are pushing motherboards and controllers to their limit.
>Wrong, kid
Yes, there's no difference between my old ass PC booting into an OS in less than 10 seconds and 30+ seconds on a new PC that is three-four times more expensive.
That decade old system is a lot slower at a number of tasks especially stuff that is demanding.
The whole memory training is a nothing burger. It only does a full season once after memory configuration. Seqenstial trainings are much quicker. The said system still boots lot faster then system that are equipped HDDs and HBAs were commonplace.
>10 seconds
poorgay
If JEDEC isn't good enough for you then you have zero reason to fuss about training times
The world doesn't revolve around a few autists with their toy PCs
JEDEC is moronicly slow for DDR5.
We're not talking a few % here.
And all the manufacturer benchmarks show "overclocked" RAM, you're paying for the higher speeds.
Then don't b***h then if you feel it so important
The ironic thing is I bet most of the tards complaining don't even have a 4090 or even play their gaymes at 1080p where it matters, but bigger number better wins out against everything
>5000MTs
>that's faster than most CPUs
Uhhhh, no, it's not...
2.5GHz is faster than most CPUs you can currently buy
yeah but they all boost up to like 6 million ghz anyway
>faster than CPU
cache-let moron alert
>but DDR5 is significantly faster than even top end DDR4
>DDR4 3600 CL14 - 7.7 ns latency
>DDR5 5600 CL28 - 10 ns latency
>DDR5 8400 CL40 - 9.5 ns latency
>significantly faster than even top end DDR4
lol, lmao even
latency and speed are different concepts
if DDR5 can do a task in less than half the time (higher clock and all chips are dual-access) but takes 20% longer to start, it still takes less time overall and is therefore faster
a few MS more latency is irrelevant when it's more than twice as fast at transferring data
That's not how memory is used most of the time. Latency matters a lot.
Yes, DDR5 is a lot faster than DDR4. Learn how memory actually works. Whatever your use case benefits from the extra bandwidth is another matter. Besides, the fat caches on modern CPUs masks almost all of the tangible benefits from tighter timings.
depends on your gayman.
If you buy DDR5 because you want more fps and you don't play in 720p you will see no net gain anyway
>implying games are the only resource heavy thing people do with their computers
no one else buys Dominator 7200Cl24 RGB gayman dragon GOLD edition DDR5 Ram.
Maybe some freaks on IQfy so they can create and decode AI child porn
Yes, let's see this "resource heavy" thing that is made so much better with faster than JEDEC RAM
Games are by FAR the most memory-sensitive applications that the average desktop user will ever run. And the reality is that DDR5 makes close to frick all difference, despite all the hype. Not on Intel platforms where there's a direct 1:1 comparison, and not on AMD where the 5800X3D is barely slower than the 7800X3D (for gaming).
>the 5800X3D is barely slower than the 7800X3D (for gaming)
This is completely wrong, if you look at games that actually care about the CPU then the 5800X3D gets matched by the 7600 while the 7800X3D is far ahead. Try looking at UE5 games or at least comparisons using an overpowered graphics card at 1080p to remove a GPU bottleneck.
If you have to contrive a scenario with a 4090 at 1080p, than RAM ostensibly doesn't mean dick.
This is the most craziest fricking thing about gaymer obsession with RAM and CPU. If you have south of a 4090, the actual consequences of RAM or CPU just got that much tinier.
It’s just some shit motherboards. See the first cheap b650 video from unbox
Yeah, you have to wait an extra minute or two on every boot. But it is blazing fast in use. A fine deal if you ask me.
I doubt there's any real life and noticeable difference from DDR4
>Yeah, you have to wait an extra minute or two on every boot. But it is blazing fast in use. A fine deal if you ask me.
sounds like Windows7
what? no. i just put together a ddr5/am5 build together 2 months ago and i've only had that 'long boot' occur twice
It's a regression. The opposite of progress. Except you pay more for that.
You measure teche-girlygical progress by boot times?
χαχχαχαχχαχαχαχχαχχαχα
.........
You need to have a non-goycattle mindset to understand, don't bother.
It's fricking crazy in 2024 to wait as long on supposedly newer and better tech.
>too pussified to reply directly
Kek, goyslave.
Yes
Just use pregabalinOS
>it requires 30+ seconds to boot with DDR5
I have 256GB of registered DDR5 and it takes about 3 seconds to POST, and that's likely only because it's a workstation board (Xeon W)
So idk what this nonsense is about
It is also that you are running JEDEC-spec DIMMs and motherboard that is overengineered to handle JEDEC-spec grades without no hassle.
All of the long memory training are from operating factory overclocked memory on boards that can barely handle it.
>All of the long memory training are from operating factory overclocked memory on boards that can barely handle it.
It's more the CPUs can barely handle it
The tech is fine
The entire problem is that you have CPUs designed to handle a certain memory frequency and gaymers and PC tweakers are demanding more than what they are designed to handle.
It's more the CPUs can barely handle it.
Nah, it is the memory controller then motherboard itself. The DIMMs are rarely the issue.
Then perhaps they should stop pandering to the gamer types
Making the gamers pc take long time to boot is opposite of pandering them. The guy with xeon system that boots fast is the one being being pandered.
There's a guy on Level1Tech Forum that claims his 4x32GB DDR5 set boots 20 minutes
So you need to turn on PC, take laxatives, shart and then take a shower. By that time everything will boot and there wouldn't be a problem.
>4x32GB DDR5 set boots 20 minutes
damn this is so funny
dropping $2k on a fresh new pc and takes 20 minutes to boot
>Falling for le bigger memory=gooder meme
You don't need more memory, you need faster memory. Casuals don't seem to understand this.
>just the POST though, booting the OS is super fas
He claims it's a 6000MT CL30 memory
Yeah I don't know why that would be then
>DDR5 on AYYMD is like that
Works on my machine. Boot time is pretty much instant.
That’s good. I think mine hovers around 13.6 seconds
I do rendering, therefore I do need more memory you fillthy casual.
Because the moron is absolutely taxing the shit of their memory controller/motherboard. I suspect his setup is barely stable and most of that boot time is just system trying to training again and again to find moment where it is briefly "stable". In the past, his BIOS/UEFI would have just given him the "memory error" on boot-up.
does he run like 64 cores too?
whats that got to do with DDR5 memory training though
ddr4 chads win again
Works on my machine. 5 second boot time with a 7800x3d and PCIe5 SSD
Which mobo?
ROG Strix B650E-E
>Why do I hear that it requires 30+ seconds to boot with DDR5?
Over a minute here.
Boot time absolutely sucks, yes.
It's just the POST though, booting the OS is super fast.
>why would anyone sane give a frick about 30+ second boot time?
that's the spirit, bloated apps causing wait times are not a problem either. It gives time for reflection.
Seems everyone is a zoomer these days, no matter their age.
Exactly, it is a nothingburger for 99% of the userbase. They rarely do a hard reboot and just leave their systems in sleep/hibernate.
>30sec boot? that doesn't even happen
>ok but it only happens once
>fine but it only happens if you unplug it
>alright it always happens but it's only 30 secs
>it adds 1-2 mins to boot but i can just go grab drink meanwhile
>ffs who even cares about boot time?1?!?!
Every single time
Once its trained it's fast. Besides how many times are you starting your fricking computer? Use sleep mode you dumb c**t.
My computer gets a reboot like once a month.
>once its trained
this homosexual thinks his ram is running shitty python machine learning algorithm
good morning saar
https://vtechinsider.com/what-is-ddr5-memory-training/
the moronic chatbot that generated this text can't even keep DDR4 and DDR5 straight
Why are you rebooting a machine like this often? Did you put fricking Windows on it?
my computer with 2GB of DDR2 ram in 2005 booted in 8s
This is only made possible with modern SSD media which at the time that platform was relatively new was only exclusive to enterprise world. It operated with HDDs that took a while to load-up the OS environment.
Modern systems are just as fast after a full memory training is done and thjey aren't running factory overclocked DIMMs that push their motherboard/controller to their limits. Silicon lottery for memory controller is becoming more of a thing now.
My 300 € laptop from 2014 takes 4 seconds from fully shut down to the login screen, how are you Black folk taking 7-30 times that amount and being fine with it?
that's nice dear, but we're talking about DDR5, which due to its' more complex nature, requires a training cycle on first boot, or at least it should only affect the first boot
&
See:
Sounds like the hardware wasn't developed well and rushed out the door. The training sounds more like a bandaid for it's deficiencies.
At least we got dumb gamer consumer types who are willing to beta test this stuff at their own expense.
eh, i didn't know about it when i upgraded to ddr5. after the training it posts in about the same amount of time as my previous board
>are you Black folk taking 7-30 times that amount and being fine with it?
It's moronic overclockers not understanding that DDR5 is nearing the limit of what's possible on DIMMs and being on the edge of stability means shit has to retrain
i personally have bothered to look into avoiding training on boot, since i only reboot my machine about once a month for kernel updates
Are DDR6 leaks about two hour boot times true? I guess we'll have to convince ourselves that's normal.
DDR5 on AYYMD is like that. On Intel it is also bad but we’re more focused with processor issues over here
Brainleto here.
This seems like the place to ask:
Will a user ever feel the difference between 8000 MHz DDR5 and something less like 4800 MHz? Assuming everything is installed correctly and in a correct configuartion.
I can tell a difference between 4800 and 6600mhz but there’s no xmp profile for 6600 which makes using it mildly annoying
> I can tell a difference
how? you stick your little dick in the DIMM slot? You're a liar
Stop buying shit mobos and get an Asrock.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
I TOLD YOU GUYS THERE WAS NO HOPE! I told you guys that technology peaked 5-10 years ago and everything we're seeing now is just desperate copium from hardware corporations. HAHAHAHAHAHA, I'll enjoy my 5 year old PC that
A) runs every software
B) is stable
C) hardware support up the wazoo
It feels good to be proven right.
works fine on my machine. 6.27 seconds
this is a king of manlets kind of moment for me
I have an SSD raid 0 for wangblows, no less
and that fricker used to startup real quick, I'd say like 10 seconds or so, now it takes like 1.5 minutes if not more
wangblows, not even once
20 seconds at 32GB dual channel
AMD ASRock livemixer
DDR5 has been super unstable for me so far, although BIOS updates within the last year have seemed to have helped.
>buy 6000MHz kit
>turn on XMP
>post times 30-40 seconds EVERY boot
>turn on memory context restore
>no difference
>reset to stock 4800MHz
>5 second post times
Never had any of these problems on DDR3. It just werked. Both DDR4 and DDR5 have been a nightmare for stability in my experience
Have you noticed a difference outside of synthetic benchmarks? Just run it at JEDEC speeds.
Framerates in some games are a bit higher, but generally no, there's not a huge difference in everyday use. If you did a blind test without framerate numbers, I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference.
>both DDR4 and DDR4
don't lump DDR4 in there with your bullshit, homosexual. It runs fine with none of these issues.
Obviously you weren't building computers around the start of the DDR4 era, because your post makes zero sense. DDR4 was plagued with ton of the same stability issues that DDR5 had in its first year or so.
1) flash newest uefi bios
2) enable memory power down
3) enable memory ontext restore
4) enjoy 12sec boot from bios
stupid goys
Fast boot a shit
>spend thousands on a DDR5 system with 8 channel memory
>still dont get better ai performance than adding another GPU
>ddr4 is fricking fine for 99% of tasks
>just double it if you need more.
who is this shit for?
GPUs cost thousands...
so does a CPU that can do 8 channel on DDR5 platforms.
Yeah but then you have a fast CPU instead of a GPU that needs all this extra weird crap.
>but then you have a fast CPU that still cant outperform a gpu at 1/2 the price or worse.
cpus aren't competing with gpus
theres nothing cpus do that require ddr5 in my systems nor the systems of most home users
>DDR4 caps out at a pitiful 3200Mhz on a high end 13th gen cpu
>despite DDR4 supporting upwards of 5600Mhz
>DDR5 support for the same cpu is over 6000Mhz
>all of a sudden every soituber calls it "megatransfers" instead of megahertz for some reason
I've been wanting to experience the latest nvme drives in RAID0 with coreboot enabled and 2 sticks of 48GB DDR5 to see how fast it can boot but this thread makes it sound like it's awful
>Why do I hear that it requires 30+ seconds to boot with DDR5?
Memory training, though most boards should have a setting to remember the last training results so it doesn't need to run every time.
>he didn't get holy grail 10th gen intel pcie 4 ddr 4 monolithic fine wine
saw this coming a mile away
>He fell into 14nm+++++++ meme
are you braindead?
that's the point
What the hell is all this about?
Does it affect laptops too?
Considering that we're about to get new 5000 series cpus, there's little reason to move off of DDR4 for now
What? Sauce nao
Memory training has always been a thing. Even on my core 2 duo rig with DDR2 ram.
Admittedly it takes way longer on DDR5 ram.
boots after hardware change do take long, i do not notice anything unusual in ddr5
Dont care
Still sticking with 32gb ddr3
second post best post
Holy shit, my ancient 4690k with DDR3 and sata ssd loads win10 faster than my another pc based on ryzen 5800x with DDR4 and nvme.
Why do they do it ti us?
no, it loads the OS much faster
it takes longer to POST because you have moronic UEFI settings and your memory has to retrain every POST
after the UEFI logo flashes om the screen, your OS is booting - i gauruntee that time takes almost nothing
before the UEFI logo flash, it is doing POST, if that takes a long time it is 99% of the time a memory issue with shitty auto OC settings changing every time
learn how your computer works and it'll work much better for you, or just buy a prebuilt and blame them when it fricks up
I am fine with my setup. It takes 11.4 seconds to load into OS and start to shit-post on this pathetic image-board infested with arrogant trannies like you and stinky poojeets like OP.
>he didn't buy gigabyte
>23 seconds
My laptop from 20 years ago used to boot faster than this. What's the point of new technology if the PC doesn't boot in 1 second?
I run DDR5 with EXPO/DOCP, and it feels like I've gone back to the 90's. I'll turn on my computer then walk away to do something else while I was for it to boot. I'm not entirely sure if it's the EXPO profile, MOBO, or the RAM itself.
There being such a difference between motherboard manufacturers means it is their fault. I doubt gigabyte which seems to be the fastest has found the perfect solution either.
It is the motherboard and memory controller on the CPU. That portion is starting become more like rolling the silicon lottery for factory overclocked SKUs.
>It is the motherboard and memory controller on the CPU.
Wow im so glad amd brought us modular chipsets so they could keep shipping 14nm garbage and pretending it's a good thing.
Imagine powering your machines down
>OMG 30 second boot time that you do once in a blue fricking moon
Grow the frick up you morons. Is your life really this boring that you have to find stupid shit like this to cry over on a chinese basket weaving website?
Yes, we are not poor
I expected computers to become faster over time.
not happening with TPM and other new shit coming.
You can thank Microsoft, AMD, IBM and Intel for this
They are faster, however the problem is that for most causal use cases we have been scaling hard against the asymptotic wall of diminishing returns.
>once in a blue fricking moon
It isn't though. It's every boot
He's saying for a process you do every once in a while. How often do you honestly restart/turn off your pc?
>Ryzen 7 5800X3D
>64GB DDR4 32000
lol
the only thing upgrading is my mountain gear 🙂
i did a test, got all system go buzzer at 7s, 40s to login screen, i like ddr5
how slow is your storage/os that it takes 33s to load?
hdparm -t says 533-536MB/s range
>Linux
That explains alot
sata?
not really, i'm
my os takes just under 9 seconds to load up, and it's far from a minimal setup
so this is an amd only problem isint it?
Im going to take the lack of responses to this post as a yes
From what I understand the long boot is only on the first install, right?
happened again when switched display from integrated to pcie at bios
>From what I understand the long boot is only on the first install, right?
It's supposed to be, but for some lucky people it's every single boot
because DDR5 is unreliable garbage to make line go up. DDR4 was already at the edge.
Your CPU's memory controller, as a precaution is basically doing link training instead of relying on cached results, probably because of a firmware configuration that's defaulted to off because of what I said.
anyhow, I can't wait til the "rowhammer" resistant shit comes out and itroduces data dependent pauses in memory access. can't wait for the next level fricking spectre and watch as half the vendors frick it up anyhow.
FRICK DRAM.
GIVE ME FRICKING MASSIVE SRAM ALREADY
new zen will fix everything.
DDR5 will continue being a meme(for nearly everything) for the next two years at least. Probably more.
Because it takes time to 'load' the RAM or some shit.
DDR5 is the Snap of RAM.
16GB of DDR3REE reporting in
>is [current gen ram] a scam?
>yes, because it's new and NEW BAD OLD GOOD NEW BAD I can't afford new so new BAD
Eveyr time.
can a n100 or n305 that uses a single stick of ddr5 use it as "dual channel"??
DDR5 is only "dual channel" in that it splits the 64bit wide memory bus of a single DIMM into 2 32bit busses.
This does give the advantage that the two halves of a DIMM can be accessed in a asynchronous fashion, decreasing latency but it's not real dual channel but a single 4800mhz DDR5 DIMM is still similar in performance to a dual channel 2400mhz DDR4 setup
It's over
>Why do I hear that it requires 30+ seconds to boot with DDR5?
Because you're schizophrenic and haven't been taking your medicine.