Didn't Koreans overhype this guy?

Didn't Koreans overhype this guy? His victories aren't that impressive when you take into account the korean ships were way better than their japanese counterparts. Besides, he didn't really stop the japanese invasion. The forces from Ming China were the ones who successfully defeated the Japanese and forced them to retreat.

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yeah, but who else are koreans going to hype?
    Some joseon confusian random eunich.
    Lol.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    On the high seas, Yi's successor Won Gyun failed to respond to reports from his scouts and allowed the Japanese to land critical reinforcements at Sosang Harbor for their land offensive unopposed. Without adequate reconnaissance or planning, Won Gyun decided to attack with the entire naval force of Joseon at his disposal; a fleet consisting of 150 warships operated by 30,000 men that had been carefully assembled and trained by Admiral Yi. Won Gyun left anchor at Yeosu with the fleet and sailed into waters marked by treacherous rocks where the Japanese ambushed the Joseon fleet in the Battle of Chilchonryang on August 28, 1597. Ignorant of the strength and disposition of the enemy, Won was stunned to find a Japanese fleet of 500 to 1000 ships which immediately closed for melee combat, denying the Joseon ships the advantages of superior seamanship and cannon fire. The exhausted Joseon sailors were reduced to fighting boarding actions while heavily outnumbered and slaughtered en masse.

    The Joseon fleet was decimated with only 13 warships surviving under Admiral Bae Seol, who fled before battle was fully engaged to save the warships under his command. After the destruction of the Joseon fleet, Won Gyun and Yi Eok-gi, another Joseon commander, fled to an island with a band of survivors but were killed by waiting Japanese soldiers from the nearby fort. The Battle of Chilchonryang was the only naval victory for the Japanese during the war against Joseon. When King Seonjo and the royal court learned of the catastrophic defeat, they hurriedly pardoned and reinstated Admiral Yi as commander of the greatly reduced Joseon fleet.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      How does that invalidate anything I've said?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Koreans were losing without that guy, that means either koreans are moronic or that guy is a great admiral.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It just means the Japanese got lucky and managed a successful raid against the docked korean fleet. It was a surprise attack and it worked well. It doesn't negate the fact korean navy was far superior technologically to its japanese counterpart.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >"When King Seonjo and the royal court learned of the catastrophic defeat, they hurriedly pardoned and reinstated Admiral Yi as commander of the greatly reduced Joseon fleet."
            >uhhh it was just one good raid

            It makes 0 sense.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This has got to be the most moronic attempt at a "gotcha" I've seen on this board in a while. It's reddit-tier "buht ashkually..." without even the actually-part because you don't know shit.

        It's pretty clear the Koreans thought Admiral Yi was the best guy for the job. Not to mention a big part of Admiral Yi's legend is his character. Guy was demoted from being an admiral by a relatively mediocre king and tortured. It was only when the court realized they done fricked up with the other guy that he was brought back and instead of nursing grudges and being a day-1 dictator, he immediately went to work defeating the Japanese. Him putting nation over petty politics speaks massive volumes to his character, and the fact he died in battle in dramatic fashion adds to the legion. Koreans praise Yi because he's a great admiral, with an undefeated record, against an invader army, and displayed values of loyalty to country that a nation would want.

        Like, you might as well say Admiral Nelson is overrated because it was mostly the Russians/Germans/Austrians that did all the fighting to defeat Napoleon because the British had better sailors so it didn't count. That's how moronic you sound.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >It's pretty clear the Koreans thought Admiral Yi was the best guy for the job. Not to mention a big part of Admiral Yi's legend is his character. Guy was demoted from being an admiral by a relatively mediocre king and tortured. It was only when the court realized they done fricked up with the other guy that he was brought back and instead of nursing grudges and being a day-1 dictator, he immediately went to work defeating the Japanese. Him putting nation over petty politics speaks massive volumes to his character, and the fact he died in battle in dramatic fashion adds to the legion. Koreans praise Yi because he's a great admiral, with an undefeated record, against an invader army, and displayed values of loyalty to country that a nation would want.
          Sounds like propaganda. Koreans should read history critically instead of dreaming about their undefeated, super loyal, admiral who singlehandedly defeated 20 millions japanese ships.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Maybe you could try giving a substantial criticism of his feats and character instead of... nothing.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Didn't Koreans overhype this guy?
    Post colonial historical revisionism, Koreans were divorcing their identities from a Sinocentric world view. The unfortunate reality is that while Yi Sunshin was nevertheless a brilliant commander he had limited land capabilities nor was fleet big enough to blockade Nagoya-Busan supply line.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      He the commander of the naval provinces at the end and not a Provincial General so he doesnt hold authority under an army banner at least to my knowledge. Legally he cant impose an order against the land commander to make assault even if he wanted

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's my point exactly, Yi Sunshin lacked the land support to effectively capture cities. Much to his consternation, Yi Sunshin was unable to liberate Busan and Ungcheon .

        Japanese troops starved en masse and/or alienated the locals by looting, leading to guerilla war, both because they couldn't get supplies over to Korea. Korea winning at sea was a huge deal.

        >both because they couldn't get supplies over to Korea.
        This was never an issue, no Korean admiral was able to prevent transit through the Nagoya/Tsushima/Busan supply line. However Yi's victories prevented Japanese ships from going beyond Gadeok island.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Oh i thought you meamt that the onus was on him. Disregard my post

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Japanese troops starved en masse and/or alienated the locals by looting, leading to guerilla war, both because they couldn't get supplies over to Korea. Korea winning at sea was a huge deal.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Japanese soldiers also gang raped Korean women and girls during the Imjin war.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It wasn't. Every army at the time lived off the land. No amount of supply was going to change that.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Japanese daimyos were running under the assumption the Korean populace would be easily cowed and behave in the same manner Japanese peasants. Not only did the peasants abandon their fields and flee to the mountains they constantly harrased the invaders which culminated in wanton brutality.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Except it does. It was doctrine from the Tang dynasty for land troops to be supplied by navak command adjascent to army logistics command. Without the sea route you overburden or stagger your land route. (Which was the successful doctrine after Sui) Asian soldiers werent Marian Mules, they didnt carry everything off individually so the problem becomes worse. Its especially crucial when the peasants wont farm for you or there isnt any major road in place becauuse its all mountains.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    When you account for the fact that Koreans could not mass produce gunpowder (and therefore cant sustain fire), and every fight had to end with a boarding action and fire technics, and that Korean doctrine requires them to get into arquebus range then it becomes more impressive.

    especially in Myeongryan, Yi's flag ship had to hold for an hour alone for rest of the line to rally.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The truth is, toyotomi hideyoshi was just another arrogant jap who thought he had the entire world in his hand. In the end that's why he and his entire clan lost

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >just another
      he was the first ruler in Japanese history to attempt to conquer mainland East Asia
      before him they were too busy fighting each other or the Emishi or just staying at peace

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >he was the first ruler in Japanese history to attempt to conquer mainland East Asia
        Before his untimely demise Oda Nobunaga already contemplated an invasion of Ming China after the planned subjugation of the Mori clan.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          And it never happened. The fact is, Japan was very rarely at war with his neighbours. Compared to Europeans, Japan was mostly peaceful.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Pretty much this

            Before the 1st Sino-Japanese War, Japan only had a handful of engagements with their Chinese and Korean neighbors. Unfortunately the Imjin War of 1592-1599 was pants-on moronic and ruined centuries of good relations that Japan had with Korea and China. The only sour note before that war was the occasional wokou (and 60% of them were found to be Chinese and even 1 name seems to be of Jurchen origin) and Japan's intervention in the Baekje-Tang War.

            Hideyoshi was a fricking moron. Say what you want about Ieyasu, but he knew Japan needed peace after over 150 years of civil war and he was rightfully suspicious of Europeans in Japan which is why he only allowed the Dutch who came to trade and not gain converts.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What are the actual sources on this dude.
    Are there Japanese and Chinese accounts that verify the claims made about him?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >What are the actual sources on this dude.
      Mostly derived from Nanjung Ilgi and Seonjo sogyeong daewang sujeong sillok.

      Japanese sources would depend on the specific commander(clan records) he fought against.

      Chinese sources elaborate on his role in Suncheon and Noryang.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The Japanese probably didn't even know this guy existed. It's mostly korean propaganda from the 20th century because Koreans didn't want to admit they were completely defeated by the Japanese and needed the Chinese to drive them off.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >needed the Chinese to drive them off.

        Americans, to be more correct

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Americans were not part of this war.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Oops

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It was literally the Japanese Naval Academy during the Meiji period that started writing about him academically (Imperial Military History by Lt. General Sato Tetsutaro). He was included in the "Joseon Conquest Records" of the Tokugawa period and the "Apologetics" by the state councellor of Imjin also populised him in Edo. In the Imjin war, both General Wakizaka and Hideoyoshi knew him, specially Wakizaka who wrote a poem about having tea with Yi. They literally knew by name about some minor officer that charged alone during the very start of the war that isn't even known in Korea. Why wouldn't they know about the General they put a doctrine decree on?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >The Japanese probably didn't even know this guy existed.
        Are you genuinely moronic? There are primary sources from all three nations that detail his exploits.

        >It's mostly korean propaganda from the 20th century because Koreans didn't want to admit they were completely defeated by the Japanese and needed the Chinese to drive them off.
        Yi Sunshin never claimed he single handedly responsible for the war effort, was undefeated nor did ever disparage the role of the Ming. The post humous lionization of Yi and massive downplay of Ming by Korean academia is a completely seperate issue.

        This has got to be the most moronic attempt at a "gotcha" I've seen on this board in a while. It's reddit-tier "buht ashkually..." without even the actually-part because you don't know shit.

        It's pretty clear the Koreans thought Admiral Yi was the best guy for the job. Not to mention a big part of Admiral Yi's legend is his character. Guy was demoted from being an admiral by a relatively mediocre king and tortured. It was only when the court realized they done fricked up with the other guy that he was brought back and instead of nursing grudges and being a day-1 dictator, he immediately went to work defeating the Japanese. Him putting nation over petty politics speaks massive volumes to his character, and the fact he died in battle in dramatic fashion adds to the legion. Koreans praise Yi because he's a great admiral, with an undefeated record, against an invader army, and displayed values of loyalty to country that a nation would want.

        Like, you might as well say Admiral Nelson is overrated because it was mostly the Russians/Germans/Austrians that did all the fighting to defeat Napoleon because the British had better sailors so it didn't count. That's how moronic you sound.

        >Guy was demoted from being an admiral by a relatively mediocre king and tortured.
        Konishi Yukingaga gave the date of departure, transit route, troop numbers and destination of Kato Kiyomasa freely. Konishi had a vested interest in the peace talks suceeding and was already war weary, forewaring the Korean court by leaking crucial military intelligence in the hopes of sabotaging a the second invasion. Unfortunately, Yi Sunshin treated this information as a potential trap and was punished for his insubordination.

        >with an undefeated record
        Undefeated on the water but failed his military objectives multiple times, though not always to his fault.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Historically, what are the reasons why Koreans and Japanese are so easily to troll, while the more emotionally mature Chinese remain so aloof and superfluous to the demands of shit-tier and shit-level internet discourse aimed at children and preteens?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Historically, what are the reasons why Koreans and Japanese are so easily to troll
      Because they're 2 autistic kids who can't get over themselves

      The Chinese actually have thousands of years to be proud of and despite MUH CENTURY OF HUMILIATION, they've become the 2nd largest economy and aloof of the liberal West. I don't trust the PRC and think they're buttholes but you can't deny that they're not kowtowing like Japan and South Korea do.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >while the more emotionally mature Chinese remain so aloof and superfluous to the demands of shit-tier and shit-level internet discourse aimed at children and preteens

      Great firewall?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They're an authoritarian state; do you really think they're going to allow free access to the Internet?

        The Chinese are a mix of cultural chauvinism because technically they WERE the top dog of East Asia and one of the oldest civilizations that's still around. They got humiliated and carved up by imperialists until they got their shit together (though under Communism) and now they're a major power.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Chinks on here are all seething diaspora ricecels. Even the chinkspammer is from england. The only confirmable guy from the PRC was that wire making factory guy and he was only angry towards his occupation

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    baby infantile Kim and Takahashi want to cry and go crawl back into their momma’s womb. Life is too hard for them kek

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >the x ys were better than their z counterparts
    why dont you actually say and explain what you mean instead of using formulaic sentences

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I swear this website attracts the worst of the worst incels. Just imagine being East Asian and being a fricking hateful isolated loser with 0 connection to any other human being or the outside world. Literal worst of the worst of dysfunctional loser failures.
    >muhh time machine
    >muhh history
    homie like what is some random dead person or event in the past gunna even do for you in the near term future, when everything is about your experience, skills and ability?

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yellow homies y’all can’t even operate a helicopter or fire 50 cal full automatic rounds without crashing or breaking your hand

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >seeing another person of a different race completely mind breaks and buck breaks a asiatic

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The one time he wasn’t in command of the Korean fleet when they went up against the Japanese, the Koreans lost the battle along with 188 out of 200 ships, then Yi took command of the remaining 12 ships and defeated said Japanese fleet so yeah I’d say he was pretty good

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Defeating Japanese navies pre-Meiji isn't an accomplishment. It's supposed to be guaranteed since Japanese navies sucked and were stomped in by all other state opponents. Japan's only naval victory pre-Meiji was that battle against Koreans in the Imjin war.

      The fact that Korea managed to let the inferior Japanese navy land entire armies in Korea shows massive incompetence.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    His story shows both the good and the bad of Koreans tbh
    Yeah he was a kickass general but the jealousy and intrigue of the Korean king and court was very typical for Koreans that lasted to this day

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